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DeanGibson
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N1E battery life vs. NC

Recently I bought a used Nook 1st Edition (WiFi+3G).  After measuring battery life (described below), I thought it might be a battery problem.  So, I replaced the battery with a new one from the local B&N;  that made no difference:

 

  1. Starting with a fully charged NC (WiFi on) and a fully charged N1E (WiFi+3G off (airplane mode)), and letting both sleep for a full day, the "battery charge remaining" on the NC is about 91%, and about 86% on the N1E.  Clearly sleep power management is better on the NC.
  2. On a fully charged N1E (airplane mode), after about four hours of reading a single book (no lower panel use), the "battery charge remaining" was 82%.  I have not yet tried this on the NC, but my guess is that this is where the NC would clearly use more of the battery.

 

So, while the N1E has more battery life for reading, the standby (sleep) consumption is worse.  I had not expected that.

 

I asked the "digital sales lead" at the local B&N about the battery consumption of the N1E while reading, and she said that was in line with her experience.  She also said that this is where the new Nook really shines, in a dramatic increase in battery life.

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
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MikeNC
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

[ Edited ]

DeanGibson wrote:

Recently I bought a used Nook 1st Edition (WiFi+3G).  After measuring battery life (described below), I thought it might be a battery problem.  So, I replaced the battery with a new one from the local B&N;  that made no difference:

 

  1. Starting with a fully charged NC (WiFi on) and a fully charged N1E (WiFi+3G off (airplane mode)), and letting both sleep for a full day, the "battery charge remaining" on the NC is about 91%, and about 86% on the N1E.  Clearly sleep power management is better on the NC.
  2. On a fully charged N1E (airplane mode), after about four hours of reading a single book (no lower panel use), the "battery charge remaining" was 82%.  I have not yet tried this on the NC, but my guess is that this is where the NC would clearly use more of the battery.

 

So, while the N1E has more battery life for reading, the standby (sleep) consumption is worse.  I had not expected that.

 

I asked the "digital sales lead" at the local B&N about the battery consumption of the N1E while reading, and she said that was in line with her experience.  She also said that this is where the new Nook really shines, in a dramatic increase in battery life.

 


Honestly, that makes no sense to me.  When both units are in "sleep" mode, the difference in battery loss should be minor.  In each case, about the only thing powered on is the clock.  The cpu and everything else should be essentailly completely powered off, as the devices rely on a physical switch to awaken them (unlike a computer, they don't run software autowake routines or anything else that would require any component to be powered up to remain aware of software initiated events).  There is no conceivable way that the N1E should use much more power in sleep than the NC, unless the sleep function on the N1E is malfunctioning or just horribly, horribly implented in firmware.

 

Sure, the NC will use more power in use (wifi on or off) as the LED backlit LCD screen will use more power than the eInk screen, even if the NC's screen brightness is set very low (it is on constantly, for one thing, while the eInk uses power solely when changing the screen).

 

It's been so long since I had my N1E I don't really recall how well its battery performed relative to my N2E or NC.  I am impressed with the N2E battery life as I go weeks between plugging it in (and even then, I've been charging it long before it really needs it, just because I try to avoid deep cycles on Li power cells).  I do know that, with the N2E in sleep mode (wifi off) it only goes down by less than 1% per day of idleness.  But then, same conditions on my NC, it only drops a percent or two at most over 24hrs sitting in sleep with wifi off.

 

For your N1E to loose 14% of a full charge in one day of sleeping, wifi off, with a new battery, just sounds faulty to me.  I would expect it to loose at most a couple or so percent, if even that.  Maybe the clock on the N1E is mechanical, not solid state electronics, and the gears are rusty?

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keriflur
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC


MikeNC wrote:
There is no conceivable way that the N1E should use much more power in sleep than the NC, unless the sleep function on the N1E is malfunctioning or just horribly, horribly implented in firmware.

I get the impression you don't think either of these scenarios is likely, while I'm inclined to believe they're both likely.  There's a reason that the newer N1E firmware is set to turn the N1E off after a certain amount of down time.

 

I'm always amazed at how much battery my N1E loses when I'm not using it, especially compared to my N2E.

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Ya_Ya
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

I lose about 12% per day if my NOOK is not touched, so this doesn't sound that unreasonable.  

 

Reading time can be almost all day without draining completely, though.  And I mean, all day, as in from when I wake up to when I go back to bed.  Joblessness + Migraine + love of reading = I've tested that several times.

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MikeNC
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

[ Edited ]

keriflur wrote:

MikeNC wrote:
There is no conceivable way that the N1E should use much more power in sleep than the NC, unless the sleep function on the N1E is malfunctioning or just horribly, horribly implented in firmware.

I get the impression you don't think either of these scenarios is likely, while I'm inclined to believe they're both likely.  There's a reason that the newer N1E firmware is set to turn the N1E off after a certain amount of down time.

 

I'm always amazed at how much battery my N1E loses when I'm not using it, especially compared to my N2E.


I said that they only make sense to me if the device is malfunctioning, or the implentation of the sleep function was just plain poorly done.  Years before the Nook came out, my Sony 500 ereader had better battery performance than that when just sitting idle in power-save mode.

 

So I'm not denying people are seeing the kind of performance they claim, I'm just saying I do believe the device should have been capable of much better than that.  An eInk device with basically only a digital clock chip running and with a new 1530mAh battery should not use that much power just sitting in power save mode.  Not if it and it's firmware were well designed and implemented.  There has to be some major parasitic power drain going on in those devices, to my mind.

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roustabout
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

Mike NC writes:  "if it and it's firmware were well designed and implemented"

 

Fair enough. Given Dean's observations on the N1E, this would lead me to think the hypothesis you've suggested can fairly be rejected. 

 

Another thing to note is that the battery consumption in both cases is a %, and the NC has a much larger battery than the N1E or NST.  Even though the actual power consumed is smaller on the N1E, it may well yield a larger % all the same out of a smaller starting reservoir. 

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SlaughterS
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

So the old nooks WiFi chip uses more power than the nook color's

 

Why does that surprise anyone ?

This is the Internet. I'm not going to let my complete lack of actual knowledge stop me from giving my opinion....
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MikeNC
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

I still think that an eInk device that drops 14% in one day on power save mode seems too much. 

 

The OP stated "... a fully charged N1E (WiFi+3G off (airplane mode)), and letting both sleep for a full day, the "battery charge remaining" on the NC is about 91%, and about 86% on the N1E."

 

With wifi and 3G off, and the device in sleep mode, it seems to me ridiculous that it should drain a 1530mAh battery (which the N1E has) by 14%.

 

In power save mode, there just should not be anything drawing that much power in a 24hr period, especially on a device that relies solely on hardware switches to re-activate it.  There's no need for anything to be energized other than a tiny little clock chip.  By the OPs numbers, the device, in idle power save, used 78% of the power it used when actively reading for 4 hours.  That to my mind means a flawed device or flawed power management processes.

 

Just my take on it, but it just does not make sense in my mind - either the device is not working correctly, or the design (hardware and/or firmware) has "issues".

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keriflur
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

I now want to test mine.  I'll charge it up tonight and see where it is tomorrow night at the same time.  :smileyhappy:

DeanGibson
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC


SlaughterS wrote:

So the old nooks WiFi chip uses more power than the nook color's


Note that WiFI was OFF on the N1E, but not on the NC.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
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gstone
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC


MikeNC wrote:

 

In power save mode, there just should not be anything drawing that much power in a 24hr period, especially on a device that relies solely on hardware switches to re-activate it.  There's no need for anything to be energized other than a tiny little clock chip. 


If this were the case it would take the N1E as long to come out of sleep mode as it does to power up from off which is not the case.

 

Their are several different hardware configurations for the N1E. My first Nook drained the battery considerably faster in sleep mode than it's replacement.

 

The NC and N1E do not have the same processor, LCD, or hardware in general. The N1E is an older design. It doesn't surprise me that the NC may drain the battery slower in sleep mode. I had pretty much come to that conclusion already based on posts about battery usage with the NC.


Regardless if you own a N1E you are stuck with what you have. Unless B&N changes their mind there will be no more updates to improve battery life or any other tweaks.

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roustabout
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

Dean, I have an ST now as well as an NC.

 

I have the feeling that the ST wireless is, in the same network conditions, much less power efficient than the NC wireless is. I run an RSS sync hourly on the NC and daily on the ST, and on the ST letting the wireless run for ~30 minutes (with data moving) can yield a 10% battery hit.  Since I'm resyncing more often on the NC each sync is somewhat shorter.  However, the sync involves many on-device steps that don't vary wildly between devices - some database polling, etc. So that implies to me that the NC wifi is more power efficient than the ST wifi is -- I can easily go two-three days, with hourly sync, without needing to recharge if I'm not really using the device.  And I know from my logs that it's waking up hourly. 

 

Later today I'll probably also start looking at throughput results and thinking about how to go from % battery used to a better metric. 

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keriflur
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

So yesterday I tested my N1E.  After an overnight charging, I unplugged it yesterday at 10am.  When I checked it this morning at 7:30 it was at 94%, so it lost 6% in 21.5 hours.  This seems like a lot less than the OP's nook.

 

FWIW, if i don't use my nook it turns itself off, and if I turn it on after a week of no use there's usually only about 40% battery or less (even though it's been off for part of that time).  Therefore I would expect that it's actually losing more than 6-8% a day.  Maybe in another 24 hours I'll see a more significant drop-off.

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MikeNC
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

Just for comparison, I took my NC and my N2E, left them to charge during the day, then unplugged them in the early evening and left them sitting in power-save/sleep mode, wifi off, for ~24 hours.  Actually, since I unplugged them after I got home, and then checked them the following day after getting home, it was really closer to 25 hours than 24 hours since I was a bit later the next day.

 

NC went from 100% to 95%

N2E went from 100% to 98%

 

My NC is about 8 months old (or coming up to that - it was a Christmas gift).  My N2E was delivered on June 4th, so 1.5+ months old.  Both get used a bit most days, the NC mostly for 30 minutes or so reading before sleep, and the N2E pretty much any other time (so it gets used much more than the NC).  Neither gets shut off unless they have need a reboot for some reason (very rare for the NC, and only once for the N2E).  They both usually get recharged when the the charge level is between 25%-50% remaining (since partial charge cycles help extend the useful life of Li batteries, versus deep cycles).

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LarryOnLI
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples here?

 

Are the batteries in the N1E, N2E, and NC all the same capacity?

 

I rather doubt it, and 5% loss on a 1,500 mAH battery would be less than 3% loss on a 2,400 mAH battery.

 

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MikeNC
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

[ Edited ]

I wasn't comparing anything to anything.  This thread started with a post about the N1E and the NC, and the battery useage in sleep mode.  i'm simply posting what my own personal devices showed in that regard.

 

The N2E and the N1E do have the same 1530mAh battery capacity, for what its worth.

 

P.S. according to the one teardown I saw of the NC, it has a 4000mAh battery.  But online sites selling "replacement" NC batterys are listing them as 3200mAh, so I don't know what it has in it really.

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LarryOnLI
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC


MikeNC wrote:

I wasn't comparing anything to anything.  This thread started with a post about the N1E and the NC, and the battery useage in sleep mode.  i'm simply posting what my own personal devices showed in that regard.

 

The N2E and the N1E do have the same 1530mAh battery capacity, for what its worth.


Sorry Mike, I was referring to the original poster.

 

I believe (not sure) that the NC has a higher capacity battery, so the larger percentage loss of the N1E does not necessarily indicate greater power consumption during sleep mode was the point I was trying to make.

 

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MikeNC
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC

No worries - and whatever the NC has, it seems certain it has a larger capacity battery.

 

The pic online of the 4000mAh is a black cased, "Barnes & Noble" labelled one, so I'm inclined to think that's the real deal and the "replacements" merely is market speak for "will fit and work", and not OEM equivalent replacement parts.

DeanGibson
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC: update

[ Edited ]

I retried this test several days ago on the N1E with about the same results (86% left after 24 hours).  Then I tried it again yesterday, but with a change:  instead of setting the e-Ink screen timeout to 20 minutes, I set it to 2 minutes.

 

Result:  94% left after 24 hours (and this was with WiFi on!). Hmmm ...

 

Now, the e-Ink screen timeout "shouldn't" make any difference, since I was not using the N1E, and I put the device to sleep immediately after starting the test.  However, I have noticed that the N1E wakes up occasionally from the sleep mode, and if this is happening more than a couple times in 24 hours, it could significantly affect battery draw.  So, more experiments on the schedule ...

 

Two comments:

 

  1. Virtually every device that shows battery life remaining, does so by measuring battery voltage, and then correlating that through a known "voltage to life" lookup table or other equivalent means (possibly adaptive).  That means that we are not really measuring battery life, but battery voltage.  Also, that correlation is probably not particularly accurate when the battery is at full charge (witness the charge on the NC units frequently stopping at "99%").  Still, on a new battery, it should be reasonably accurate, and on the same battery in successive measurements, it should be quite valid for comparison purposes.
  2. Yes, the NC has both different hardware, different firmware, and different batteries.  I was comparing them in the sense of how often you might want to charge a Nook which was not in active use, and I think the answer is, "every 5-7 days" for both.

 

If the N1E and NST have 1530maH batteries, a drop of (say) 8% means a consumption of about 120maH, and in 24 hours, that would mean about a 5 milliamps average draw while sleeping.  That's more than I would have expected for a sleeping e-Ink device;  many CMOS devices (eg, wrist watches or PC clock batteries) that sleep or run just a clock, consume several orders of magnitude less current.  I had an IBM PS/2 computer with the clock battery (large "pill" battery) still keeping time after 15 years.  The somewhat smaller CR2032 "pill battery battery in my watch has a capacity of about 200maH and lasts for five years, for a current draw of about 5 microamps.

 

If the NC has a 4000maH battery, a drop of (say) 8% means a consumption of about 320maH, and in 24 hours, that would mean about a 13 milliamps average draw while sleeping.

 

By contrast, my 2-year-old Motorola Droid has a 1300maH battery, and if I forget and leave it uncharged overnight, it seems to be down to about 40-50%, or about 25 milliamps average draw.  That seems awful in comparison, until you realize that a cell phone is "constantly" listening for an incoming cellular call.  I say "constantly", because in fact the receiver is powering up every (say) 200ms to listen for (say) 20ms, which drastically helps in extending battery life.

 

I'm curious, for those that reported here, what the e-Ink screen timeout was set to.

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
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keriflur
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Re: N1E battery life vs. NC: update

Mine is set to 5 minutes and I lost 6% in 21.5 hours.