Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[Sir_Vikin]

I have been visiting these boards for a very long time now, even before I bought my nook.  In fact, I did not register on these boards until well after I bought my nook.  I used to visit every day almost religously, and I loved doing so.  However, I have to say that the behavior of some of the more frequent and "distinguished" users of this board have taken the pleasure out of visiting.   Lately when I visit these boards it is almost like I am intruding upon some private club whos members look down their noses at any who dare say "hello".

Without naming people, I have to ask the following;

Why?  Why do you feel a need to greet most new posts with snobbish undertones?  Why do you feel a need to act like each and every newcomer to these boards is a bother to you?  Why do you feel a need to insert your opinion into most every post, even if it is not directed at you?  You complain about the new posts that only you realize are "repeat" posts.  You complain about various people's opinions and you feel a need to insert your "almighty" opinions into most every thread.  Sometimes you do it in an arrogant tone, other times you deride, and all because you feel some msiguided sense of self importance. You do this without stopping to realize that you are performing the very same actions about which you yourselves are complaining.  

I ask that you realize that not everybody that comes to these boards knows how self important you are, if they did many would probably choose not to visit in the first place. Many come to these boards for various reasons, some to complain and some in excitement and happiness.  Maybe we are not all as "distinguished" as you, but we have just as much right to be here without the snide comments or having to bow to your opinions in every thread.  Trust me, there are more than enough threads where you have said almost the same exact thing, and yet you continue to repeat yourselves with each and every new post. 

These boards are not your private boards, these are boards that B&N has graciously put up for the consumer.  Maybe you should step back and realize that as E-books gain in popularity, there is a greater potential that even more people coming here, and that this "community" can only suffer from your attitudes and actions.

I realize that this post has painted me as a new target for you to direct your tirades, self important opinions, and whatever else you feel a need to direct my way.  So be it.  I will continue to visit from time to time.   I do hope that things will change around here though I doubt they will, as I know I am not the first to voice similiar thoughts.  I do hope however that I am the last and that future visitors of these boards are treated better.  

[AndyfromVA]

I've never seen viscious personal attacks on this Board.  I've only seen people expressing their opinion about the subject of the Board - the Nook and associated products.  Totally legitimate in my opinion.

People who are overly sensitive to "tone" should avoid reading internet forums.

[Tweedledee]

Unfortunately there are no "Hall Monitors", and this is like a family - from what I have observed.  

Not a thing wrong with that, but from time to time - family is a little on the cranky side.....it takes time, just like any other venture where people are involved to gain acceptance and a "tip of the hat". 

Just like family - we all have opinions, not everyone is going to agree, however, in disagreement  their is enlightenment, discourse and a broadening of our perceptions to include the "other" guy/gal.  (Agreeing to disagree is not a bad thing, it is actually more respectful than some might realize.)

Each one of us has our own view of "netiquette", and like any family there is often a lot of bickering on the little issues.  I think that if you look at the picture as a whole, this is a really great community that has in my short term of being on the boards, done the "right thing" when the occasion has warranted.  In other words, they rise to the top when and exceed expectations overwhelmingly.

So.....give them a chance, you will be pleasantly surprised 

[shilohMD]

I've been coming here since Christmas, when I got my Nook.  I find the Board to be generally very helpful, and very much tamer than most other Boards in general.

For a while, there was an infestation of self-important whiners who would post ranting complaints, and never come back for assistance.  These are/were trolls, seagulls, inconsiderate louts, a**h***s, call them what you will.  They are part of every board, and generally raise the ire of the "normal" denizens hereabouts -- as well they should.

That infestation seems to be reduced lately...maybe they've all flamed out...maybe they have finally RTFM (right!)...but they're still out there...

I would opine that the OP's diatribe may be approaching the boundary.  I'm not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with his/her rant, except perhaps to stir things up, and get many of the Board regulars agitated.

But that's the very definition of a troll...could it be that's what we have here?

[Josienjoe]

@ Sir_Vikin,

Welcome to the boards and nook ownership.

Since you haven't directed this at anyone in particular, I would just point out that sometimes the "tone" may be super clear, but a lot of times the perception of a reader is not necessarily the intent of the person writing it.  Tone does not always translate well in the written word.  Smileys help sometimes.

So, what you may interpret as a "complaint" about a repeat post, may have been (in many cases) merely pointing out to a new visitor that a question may already have been answered and there is a reason for the search function.

I hope you haven't interpreted this as an attack of any kind or a tirade and although it is my opinion, I don't think it's my self-important opinion.  

These boards continue to be, in my opinion, a great place to gain knowledge about the nook and just generally "hang out" with others who own one or are looking at the possibility of owning one.

Happy reading.  

[Sir_Vikin]

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shilohMD wrote:

I would opine that the OP's diatribe may be approaching the boundary.  I'm not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with his/her rant, except perhaps to stir things up, and get many of the Board regulars agitated.

But that's the very definition of a troll...could it be that's what we have here?

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This is exactly the type of behavior that I was referring to.  As can be seen by your reply, you neither read nor comprehended my post, your loss.  Instead you react with the typical knee jerk response of "its a troll".  That is the type of response expected of one that has neither given the Op the respect of reading the post or of at least acting like you understood it before replying.  Which you clearly did not do.  Had you taken the time to look at my profile you would note that I am a long time member of these boards, but that I do not choose to post in response to every little post on here, hence my post count of 32 posts..  Had you taken the time to read my post and thus made an attempt to comprehend it, you would have seen that behavior like yours is exactly the type of behavior that I am referring to.

Alas, all you have done is further prove my point.   Now I ask, who is the troll?  The poster with 300+ posts that responds without reading the post, or the one with 32 posts that only posts when he has something to say?

[AndyfromVA]

I don't think youi're a troll but I do think your orignial post was rather extreme.

But I don't think having someone question whether you're a troll is the worst thing in the world.  I've been called much worse, believe me.

[smiller492]

I would post something profound and lengthy, but there are other post that are not directed towards me that I have to comment on.

Seriously, most post are laced with sarcasm (see above) although there are those posts where the nastiness if for real.  But they started it!

[Sir_Vikin]

@AndyfromVA - The problem with posting something like this without calling out people by name is that unfortunately those who are innocent feel as if you are out of line or extreme.  I agree that the post is a bit rough, and for that I apologize.  I suppose that in a way I am as guilty as those I am addressing as since I do not visit/post that frequently the behaviors are that much more apparent to me when I do visit.  This would appear to be a problem with a public board without any babysitters to monitor the unruly children.

[Conniecats]

I have a lot of thoughts about this.

This is one of the mildest message boards that I have frequented. People here are, for the most part, polite and friendly; however, I do think the OP does have some valid points. I find it bothersome when newbies come on the board and are chastised about such things as either posting to an old post or creating a new post when there are other posts about the same topic. It's like they just can't win. I think it turns some of them off and keeps them away from the boards.

That's too bad because I think new people with new thoughts and different ideas keep the boards fresh and interesting.

On the other hand, if you post on a message board you have to realize that there are a lot of different people with all sorts of personalities. In addition, it is sometimes hard to distinguish the tone of someone's post. They might think they are being helpful, funny or friendly but someone reading the post might think it is snarky, mean or rude. 

In my opinion you have to have a bit of a thick skin when you're on message boards. Read the threads you want to, ignore the ones that don't interest you. The same with the posts. If you post something and don't like some of the replies, just ignore them and respond only to the helpful or friendly ones.

[Nallia Distinguished Bibliophile]

I have too much going on right now in my offline ilfe to give this the attention it demands, so I will just say this:

If you have an issue with a particular person (people) here, just say so.  The use of "some people" is not only childish, it is also insulting to many, many posters who have nothing to do with your diatribe.  Because of that, donn't be surprised if you end up with a flame war here.  Unless, of course, that was your intention.  I choose to believe that you are just frustrated, but mean well, but I have been wrong before and will be again.  Of course, if you actually mean that every one of us "regular" posters are unwelcoming and nasty, well, then, I can only say that you obviously haven't spent anything close to the amount of time here that you claim you have.

As for repeatedly "complaining" about repeat posts--some of it is unnecessary, I agree.  Anything can be taken too far when someone is pushed too far.  The person I believe you are most complaining about became this way when he had to constantly deal with pointless rants from drive-by posters clogging the boards.  It's really no surprise that he's a bit touchy at this point, especially when so many new posters have thrown fits when they realized they aren't the center of the universe.  I don't see what there is to get so upset about when posters are redirected to post in the thread that was stickied to the top of the board by B&N, so that the comments and requests could easily be found and passed on to B&N developers, but I suppose only the people who come here with the intent to complain have the right to do so?  Unfortunately, with the loss of Michael-V, we really have no idea if these user requests/thougths are being sent on to anyone anymore because the group off Admins we do have don't seem to want to interact with the community the same way.  All these repeat comments used to be merged into the proper threads, but these boards are still a huge mess.

[Sir_Vikin]

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Conniecats wrote:

I find it bothersome when newbies come on the board and are chastised about such things as either posting to an old post or creating a new post when there are other posts about the same topic. It's like they just can't win. I think it turns some of them off and keeps them away from the boards.

That's too bad because I think new people with new thoughts and different ideas keep the boards fresh and interesting.

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@Conniecats - This is exactly what got me riled today.   I saw 2 posts this morning where it was the OP's first time visiting and instead of greeting them they were met with arrogance, sarcasm, and attitude.  Neither one was greeted with a "welcome" which is truly very sad.  True, it may have been unintentional, or I may have read into the "tone".  But, I may not have as well, only the one who responded knows what they meant with their replies.  Yet, is it too much to ask that newcomers be treated with kid gloves until they get to know the lay of the land?  Personally I don't think it is.

[Nallia Distinguished Bibliophile]

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Sir_Vikin wrote:

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Conniecats wrote:

I find it bothersome when newbies come on the board and are chastised about such things as either posting to an old post or creating a new post when there are other posts about the same topic. It's like they just can't win. I think it turns some of them off and keeps them away from the boards.

That's too bad because I think new people with new thoughts and different ideas keep the boards fresh and interesting.

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@Conniecats - This is exactly what got me riled today.   I saw 2 posts this morning where it was the OP's first time visiting and instead of greeting them they were met with arrogance, sarcasm, and attitude.  Neither one was greeted with a "welcome" which is truly very sad.  True, it may have been unintentional, or I may have read into the "tone".  But, I may not have as well, only the one who responded knows what they meant with their replies.  Yet, is it too much to ask that newcomers be treated with kid gloves until they get to know the lay of the land?  Personally I don't think it is.

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Asking that new posters be treated with respect is reasonable, but, seriously, "kid gloves?"  Are we to tip toe around everyone who comes here, trying not to inadvertantly insult people?  Are these people not responsible for their own feelings and reactions?

I am always respectful unless I am provoked.  However, I refuse to walk on eggshells around anyone.

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

[Sir_Vikin]

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Nallia wrote:

If you have an issue with a particular person (people) here, just say so.  The use of "some people" is not only childish, it is also insulting to many, many posters who have nothing to do with your diatribe.  Because of that, donn't be surprised if you end up with a flame war here.  Unless, of course, that was your intention.  I choose to believe that you are just frustrated, but mean well, but I have been wrong before and will be again.  Of course, if you actually mean that every one of us "regular" posters are unwelcoming and nasty, well, then, I can only say that you obviously haven't spent anything close to the amount of time here that you claim you have.

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@ Nalia- I assume that you missed where I plainly said "some of the more frequent and "distinguished" users of this board have taken the pleasure out of visiting".

That said, your "childish" comment seems more aimed at creating a flame war than what I had to say. If that is your intent, then please take your marshmallows to another campfire as this one has enough already.  The reason I did not call out any one particular person was to draw attention to a behavior that seems to be accepted and it seems to be encouraging similiar behavior from others.  Again, not once did I say "everyone" here, I am merely trying to point out what I consider to be a disturbing trend in behavior from "some" people on this board, nothing more.  I doubt that it has occured to anyone that part of the reason there are so many "drive by posters" is because of how they are met on the boards.  Who would want to become a repeat visitor of someplace if you were made to feel unwelcome with your first post?   I am a veteran of many boards, and I am fully aware of the problems that go with them, however some people here could do with the realization that they too are not "the center of the universe".

If you are offended at this, then make some room at your campfire and I will bring the hot cocoa.

[Sir_Vikin]

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Nallia wrote:

Asking that new posters be treated with respect is reasonable, but, seriously, "kid gloves?" Are we to tip toe around everyone who comes here, trying not to inadvertantly insult people? Are these people not responsible for their own feelings and reactions?

I am always respectful unless I am provoked. However, I refuse to walk on eggshells around anyone.

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

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@ Nalia- Ok respect then, though I chose kid gloves as I figured the word respect would earn me a tirade somewhere along the lines of; "they have to show respect to get respect"..  Walking on eggshells does not equate to handling with kid gloves until they get to know the lay of the land..  I am merely asking that we give new posters the chance to become regulars before we light the torches and chase them off like a mob chasing trolls.. 

[MWorrell]

This forum can be pretty snarky. I know it's better than most, but I participate in others that are more polite and welcoming, because that is what is insisted upon. Those boards are probably moderated with a heavy hand. I don't know.

I definitely have seen the things that Sir_Vikin has seen, especially a mean attitude towards newbies whose enthusiasm for their Nook may be driving them to participate in an online community (or seek help from one) for the first time, or who may not realize that what has them fired up or excited may be old news to the initiated.

I'm guilty of returning fire on occasion, especially when certain posters feel the need to lecture others for everything from hanging at B&N stores too long to choosing to buy/not buy from this or that company. So, I plan to be nicer. What can it hurt?

[Nallia Distinguished Bibliophile]

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Sir_Vikin wrote:

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Nallia wrote:

If you have an issue with a particular person (people) here, just say so.  The use of "some people" is not only childish, it is also insulting to many, many posters who have nothing to do with your diatribe.  Because of that, donn't be surprised if you end up with a flame war here.  Unless, of course, that was your intention.  I choose to believe that you are just frustrated, but mean well, but I have been wrong before and will be again.  Of course, if you actually mean that every one of us "regular" posters are unwelcoming and nasty, well, then, I can only say that you obviously haven't spent anything close to the amount of time here that you claim you have.

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@ Nalia- I assume that you missed where I plainly said "some of the more frequent and "distinguished" users of this board have taken the pleasure out of visiting".

That said, your "childish" comment seems more aimed at creating a flame war than what I had to say. If that is your intent, then please take your marshmallows to another campfire as this one has enough already.  The reason I did not call out any one particular person was to draw attention to a behavior that seems to be accepted and it seems to be encouraging similiar behavior from others.  Again, not once did I say "everyone" here, I am merely trying to point out what I consider to be a disturbing trend in behavior from "some" people on this board, nothing more.  I doubt that it has occured to anyone that part of the reason there are so many "drive by posters" is because of how they are met on the boards.  Who would want to become a repeat visitor of someplace if you were made to feel unwelcome with your first post?   I am a veteran of many boards, and I am fully aware of the problems that go with them, however some people here could do with the realization that they too are not "the center of the universe".

If you are offended at this, then make some room at your campfire and I will bring the hot cocoa.

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No, I was not offended.  I am not angry; I am not frustrated with you; I don't feel any negative emotions toward you or this thread at all.  I was simply trying to illustrate how easy it is for comments to be taken completely differently than they are intended, and how easy it is for flame wars to start because of it.  Obviously, I wasn't clear enough and so the point of my post was missed.  Unfortunately, I am using these boards today as a way to distract myself from other things, so may not be as articulate as I mean to be.

[Nallia Distinguished Bibliophile]

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MWorrell wrote:

This forum can be pretty snarky. I know it's better than most, but I participate in others that are more polite and welcoming, because that is what is insisted upon. Those boards are probably moderated with a heavy hand. I don't know.

I definitely have seen the things that Sir_Vikin has seen, especially a mean attitude towards newbies whose enthusiasm for their Nook may be driving them to participate in an online community (or seek help from one) for the first time, or who may not realize that what has them fired up or excited may be old news to the initiated.

I'm guilty of returning fire on occasion, especially when certain posters feel the need to lecture others for everything from hanging at B&N stores too long to choosing to buy/not buy from this or that company. So, I plan to be nicer. What can it hurt?

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It doesn't hurt anything and it's an admirable goal.  I decided long ago to stay out of most of the petty arguments that occur here because participating often serves no purpose and can affect my mood in other threads.

I've seen it as well and have already said so.  I do think it gets out of hand at times.  But I also understand how it can happen, just as I understand how a new poster can feel the need to use his/her first post to post a rant that will just end up setting half the board off.

[shilohMD]

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Sir_Vikin wrote:

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shilohMD wrote:

I would opine that the OP's diatribe may be approaching the boundary.  I'm not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with his/her rant, except perhaps to stir things up, and get many of the Board regulars agitated.

But that's the very definition of a troll...could it be that's what we have here?

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This is exactly the type of behavior that I was referring to.  As can be seen by your reply, you neither read nor comprehended my post, your loss.  Instead you react with the typical knee jerk response of "its a troll".  That is the type of response expected of one that has neither given the Op the respect of reading the post or of at least acting like you understood it before replying.  Which you clearly did not do.  Had you taken the time to look at my profile you would note that I am a long time member of these boards, but that I do not choose to post in response to every little post on here, hence my post count of 32 posts..  Had you taken the time to read my post and thus made an attempt to comprehend it, you would have seen that behavior like yours is exactly the type of behavior that I am referring to.

Alas, all you have done is further prove my point.   Now I ask, who is the troll?  The poster with 300+ posts that responds without reading the post, or the one with 32 posts that only posts when he has something to say?

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I beg to differ...I did read and comprehend what you wrote.  You were lamenting the lack of civility on this Board.  And then proceeded to paint the Board with a brush that colors "some of the members" with being rude and arrogant.  Then you step back and volley with those who take exception to your inappropriate generalizations...sounds like you just came here to stir up a fight...that is definitely troll-esque

Have you read some of the true trolls that post here?  I believe we waste too much time feeding them. The patience of some who try to help them (until they realize that their audience has posted once and gone away) is amazing.  I reiterate that these "one-post drive-bys" don't deserve courtesy...and if they get torched, it's payback to the aforementioned patient and helpful ones.

I also reiterate that an overwhelming number of the members of this Board are helpful, polite, and go out of there way.  And considerably better-behaved that other Internet Boards.  Your comments about this being generally not a fun place to visit because new posters get trashed is nonsense.

If you are willing to contribute and help those in need of assistance, I urge you to do so.  If you are conserving your posts only to come here and trash the people who do find it an interesting place to visit, that's really a shame.  The fact that you are a long-time member and an infrequent poster puzzles me...join in and contribute!  Surely you have something positive to offer us.

Or not...

[Sir_Vikin]

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shilohMD wrote:

I beg to differ...I did read and comprehend what you wrote.  You were lamenting the lack of civility on this Board.  And then proceeded to paint the Board with a brush that colors "some of the members" with being rude and arrogant.  Then you step back and volley with those who take exception to your inappropriate generalizations...sounds like you just came here to stir up a fight...that is definitely troll-esque

Have you read some of the true trolls that post here?  I believe we waste too much time feeding them. The patience of some who try to help them (until they realize that their audience has posted once and gone away) is amazing.  I reiterate that these "one-post drive-bys" don't deserve courtesy...and if they get torched, it's payback to the aforementioned patient and helpful ones.

I also reiterate that an overwhelming number of the members of this Board are helpful, polite, and go out of there way.  And considerably better-behaved that other Internet Boards.  Your comments about this being generally not a fun place to visit because new posters get trashed is nonsense.

If you are willing to contribute and help those in need of assistance, I urge you to do so.  If you are conserving your posts only to come here and trash the people who do find it an interesting place to visit, that's really a shame.  The fact that you are a long-time member and an infrequent poster puzzles me...join in and contribute!  Surely you have something positive to offer us.

Or not...

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@ShilohMD  Alas, your comments have once again done a better job of illustrating my point than I am able to.  The problem stems from the attitude that it is acceptable to show a lack of courtesy to those who are deemed to be "drive-by posters" or trolls before it is even known whether or not they are in fact trolls or "drive-by posters".  Follow this with the attitude of "if they get torched, its payback.." and I have to shake my head in disbelief.  

I have to ask, did you read what you wrote before you posted it? Regardless, please by all means continue to post as you are doing a much better job of validating my point than I am by responding to you. 

It is obvious that the only thing that we can agree on, is that we will continue to disagree.  That said, I will continue to contribute when I have something to say, if that paints me as a troll then so be it. 

Remember; a lack of civility begets a lack of civility.