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Distinguished Correspondent
Sir_Vikin
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎09-22-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

@ Nalia,  actually the first person to throw the "flame war" comment around was you, and I tossed it back at you.  I have not thrown it at anybody else, re-read my posts.  I am open to disagreement, you can see that with ShilohMd and my conversation, I agreed to disagree with them yet in the end we were both talking about the same thing, we just did not have the wording to get to the point without some discussion. 

 

I did not say it was the "regulars" responsibility..  I said "It is EVERYONES responsibility"..  Again, re-read my post.

 

I DO care what they think, otherwise I would not have bothered to stay and respond, or to bring this up in the first place. 

 

What I have done IS different from what they do, as I am doing it out of concern for the way people are being treated.  There is absolutely NOTHING noble about berating or abusing people when you are trying to assist them.  If you think that abuse equates to nobility.then you really should look up the word.

 

I NEVER said my point of view was the only one, I merely said that I hoped to draw attention to what I saw as a concern, that being the way that people were being treated. 

 

That said, you really need to take a breath and stop trying to put words in my mouth, nobody is attacking you or anything.  This was and has been a discussion about a concern, nothing more.

 

“We all boil at different degrees” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Distinguished Correspondent
avid_reader1590
Posts: 185
Registered: ‎12-28-2009

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

Sigh.....at this point I rest my case. :smileysad:


Nallia wrote:

I find it more arrogant to assume that anyone is "supposed to" participate in any thread, this one included.  Maybe they don't see it as the issue you do.  They don't have to.  No one does.  I'm here because I found ths discussion interesting.  I am far less interested in discussing anything with someone who believes that headway is only made if everyone agrees with him and behaves in a manner he deems acceptable.  Once again, disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

 

 In the last few days, I have watched a handful of people come to this thread and complain about those who take the most time out of their days to help a whole bunch of people they don't know because some don't like the way they do it.  I would just like to know why you are all justified this and those being discussed here are not.

 

You say that the responsibility starts with the regulars.  I say that the responsibility of respectful behavior starts with each individual, old or new.

 

Why should the others come here when it is obvious that you don't care what they think?  Any time anyone has tried to discuss this issue critically you have accused him/her of trying to start a flame war.

 

The fact is, what you have done by starting this thread is no different than what you are accusing others of doing.  You feel you have noble intentions.  So do the regulars you are complaining about.  Your point of view is not the only valid one here.  Until this is realized, no understanding will be able to be reached.  Without understanding, no change will be made.  All that will be created is more hard feelings and more bitterness, on both sides.

 

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

 

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

 

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

 

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.

 

Disagreement does not equate to disrespect.


 

It is better to stir up a question without deciding it, than to decide it without stirring it up. ~Joseph Joubert


Distinguished Correspondent
Sir_Vikin
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎09-22-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[ Edited ]

@ Nalia-  Abuse to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight. to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign.

 

Abusivea: using harsh insulting language <an angry and abusive crowd>  b: characterized by or serving for abuse <abusive language

 

Those definitions are what has been happening on these boards.  If they are not the "true" meaning of the words, then please enlighten me with your definitions from your dictionary as I do not have a copy of it sitting on my desk.

 

“We all boil at different degrees” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Distinguished Correspondent
avid_reader1590
Posts: 185
Registered: ‎12-28-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

Sorry if I upset you with my personal experience but you were not even one of the posters I was speaking of so I am surprised at your anger.  Once again apologies. 


Nallia wrote:

 


avid_reader1590 wrote:

I was speaking from my  personal experience.   I have been registered since 12-09 so I have been around here for awhile and have read too many posts  where someone is abusive or dismissive to others and it is usually the same four or five mega posters. I have cringed at some of the remarks made.  I just hope they will start to be more considerate now  and I don’t think that is asking a lot of anyone whether it is a person new to the boards or someone who has a ton of postings. Yes, we can only control what we do but is it too much to ask for other members not to be abusive?

Since Sir_Viken got so many laurels for his original post that should show how posters agree with the lack of civility and respect.  


Nallia wrote:

While I do think it's nice to bring things ilke this to everyone's attention, to say that the fault lies entirely with the more established posters is ridiculous.  It's all well and good to discuss what we each feel is the best course of action in any circumstance, but why is it acceptable for some to tell reguar posters how they should behave but not acceptable for regular posters to do the same with newer members?

 

In the end, each person should be most concerned with his/her own behavior and not everyone else's, since that is the only behavior we each have any control over and responsibility for.


 


 

Not once did I say that it is unreasonable to ask for civility.  Tell me where I said that.  Please.  Find it and quote it for me.

 

I NEVER NEVER NEVER SAID IT NEVER HAPPENS.  Did I?  Find it then.  I have already said it happens, but there are some here who want to push all responsibility for decent behavior on the shoulders of a few while ignoring the fact that everyone is responsible for the tone of these boards.

 

I am really getting sick of people throwing the word "abusive" around.  Until permanent damage can be proven, using that word is nothing more than flame bait, especially to those who truly know what it means.


 

It is better to stir up a question without deciding it, than to decide it without stirring it up. ~Joseph Joubert


Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,236
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?


Sir_Vikin wrote:

@ Nalia,  actually the first person to throw the "flame war" comment around was you, and I tossed it back at you.  I have not thrown it at anybody else, re-read my posts.  I am open to disagreement, you can see that with ShilohMd and my conversation, I agreed to disagree with them yet in the end we were both talking about the same thing, we just did not have the wording to get to the point without some discussion. 

 

I did not say it was the "regulars" responsibility..  I said "It is EVERYONES responsibility"..  Again, re-read my post.

 

I DO care what they think, otherwise I would not have bothered to stay and respond, or to bring this up in the first place. 

 

What I have done IS different from what they do, as I am doing it out of concern for the way people are being treated.  There is absolutely NOTHING noble about berating or abusing people when you are trying to assist them.  If you think that abuse equates to nobility.then you really should look up the word.

 

I NEVER said my point of view was the only one, I merely said that I hoped to draw attention to what I saw as a concern, that being the way that people were being treated. 

 

That said, you really need to take a breath and stop trying to put words in my mouth, nobody is attacking you or anything.  This was and has been a discussion about a concern, nothing more.

 


Yes, I brought it up in an effort to explain to you how easily things can be misinterpreted.

 

I didn't put any words in your mouth.  You're the one making the determination that others haven't responded because they feel it's "beneath them," or "don't want to admit there's a problem."  It's quite arrogant to tell others how they must feel or why they must do something, in my view.

 

I have lost count of how many times a new person here has taken offense at being redirected to the right place and called one of us rude for doing so.  Or how often someone got angry because we didn't respond fast enough.  As I have already tried to explain, there are a few people here who have become hurt and mistrustful by the treatment they received at the hands of new posters over the last few months.  Apparently, no one cares about that because no one bothered to respond.  I guess it's beneath you and you just don't want to admit that this is an issue.

 

Since it keeps being ignored, here is my main point.  And this is the last time I'm going to attempt to get through to anyone on this thread because it is becoming obvious to me that no one wants my opinion:

 

I have already said that the behavior you posted about happens and shouldn't.  I'm not sure how many times I can say it before it's heard and understood.  But you and others have no desire to see the other side of this.  Until that effort is made, this thread is futile.

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,236
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


avid_reader1590 wrote:

Sorry if I upset you with my personal experience but you were not even one of the posters I was speaking of so I am surprised at your anger.  Once again apologies.  


 

I'm not angry.  I am just trying very hard to explain that, yes, it is true that sometimes people are unnecessarily harsh, but it is also true that many, many times, someone reads nastiness where none was intended.  Ultimately, we all have to take a step back and look at our own reactions and behavior and make a bigger effort to read what is actually being said and not add emotions and meaning that may not be there.

 

This is one of the biggest problems I see here and on any message board: the attributing of feelings that may or may not be felt by others.  It's not just you, we all do it at times, and I believe it's the main reason threads like this come to be in the first place.

 

 

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,236
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


Sir_Vikin wrote:

@ Nalia-  Abuse to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight. to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign.

 

Abusivea: using harsh insulting language <an angry and abusive crowd>  b: characterized by or serving for abuse <abusive language

 

Those definitions are what has been happening on these boards.  If they are not the "true" meaning of the words, then please enlighten me with your definitions from your dictionary as I do not have a copy of it sitting on my desk.

 


 

First, "abuse" has a very serious meaning to a lot of people, myself included.  In my world, abuse causes permanent harm, whether physical or emotional.  It leaves scars that never go away.  Ever.

 

Second, you and some others may feel that your definition of abuse is what is happening here on a regular basis, and it does happen occasionally.  However, it does not happen as often as some think, as I have already explained numerous times above.  In addition, it is often a reactionary behavior, as I have also explained.

 

To sum up:

 

  • People need to be respectful and civil.
  • People should not berate others or otherwise make fun of them for being less knowledgeable.
  • People need to pay more attention to what is actually being said and not automatically assume something is an attack
  • People should ask for clarification more often if they are unsure.

 

That is all.

Distinguished Correspondent
Sir_Vikin
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎09-22-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[ Edited ]

@ Nalia, Your "effort" at showing how things can be misinterpreted really could use a "note" of some sort as your intentions are not always crystal clear.  It is not easy to "read" between the lines when you are reading an ongoing discussion with multiple people and personalities and cannot tell what somebody is "trying" to say.  That said, I do admit that I was wondering what the heck you were getting at with that post.

 

My response about them not participating was in large due to your response about responsibility.  That said, I fully understand that nobody has to participate, but the point I was trying to make was that it is hard to have a discussion without all parties taking part. 

 

In regards to your point of:  "As I have already tried to explain, there are a few people here who have become hurt and mistrustful by the treatment they received at the hands of new posters over the last few months. Apparently, no one cares about that because no one bothered to respond. I guess it's beneath you and you just don't want to admit that this is an issue."

 

Your assumption that a lack of response to this means that we do not care is unjustified.  Please realize that a lack of response to this does not mean that I do not care, I do.  However it is rather difficult to have a discussion on that when it seems like you are talking for them and not from personal experience.  It is really difficult to have a conversation about a concern when those involved do not want to be part of the conversation.  Now, if you were one of the effected then please say so as I would love to have that conversation, but again it has seemed as if you are talking for those that were effected and not as an effected member of that group.

 

That said, my thoughts on that conversation are as follows.  As I have said before, there is a LOT of passion that surrounds these boards and the nook itself.  That passion is a good thing, and a bad thing.  While I do feel for those that were effected, I cannot do anything about what happened in the past to the group that feels abused, but what has happened does not excuse what is happening now.  Again though, saying this does nothing if they do not want to partake in the conversation.

 

As for your final point of "I have already said that the behavior you posted about happens and shouldn't. I'm not sure how many times I can say it before it's heard and understood. But you and others have no desire to see the other side of this. Until that effort is made, this thread is futile."  

I believe that it has been understood, (at least I understood it), and we all get that.  Nobody was pointing a finger at you and saying that you did not feel that way.  How that equates to us (or me for that matter) not having a desire to see the other side of it is beyond me as nobody has painted you as the bad guy. 

 

It seems to me that the problem here is that you feel a need to speak for those that are not speaking, much the same as I felt a need to do.  While you have agreed about the behavior, you have also placed yourself in the middle of the issue by attempting to speak for those who remain silent.  There is nothing wrong with that, but please realize that nobody is pointing the finger at you.  If there is a miscommunication anywhere, it may be in how your "points" are understood as I know that I personally do not always see/understand what it is that you are trying to say. 

 

As for your opinion.  I do want it, and I find what you have to say to be very interesting.  However if you could please be a little clearer in attempts to "explain" your points it would greatly help me as with my arms/hands and reading all the posts/discussions and typing I really dont sit and read between the lines (too busy trying to type out my thoughts without any typos).

“We all boil at different degrees” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,236
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[ Edited ]

Now, this isn't meant to be snarky, but please spell my name correctly.  I initially ignored it because I assumed it was a typo, but there are two "l"s in my name.

 


Sir_Vikin wrote:

@ Nalia, Your "effort" at showing how things can be misinterpreted really could use a "note" of some sort as your intentions are not always crystal clear.  It is not easy to "read" between the lines when you are reading an ongoing discussion with multiple people and personalities and cannot tell what somebody is "trying" to say.  That said, I do admit that I was wondering what the heck you were getting at with that post.

 

My response about them not participating was in large due to your response about responsibility.  That said, I fully understand that nobody has to participate, but the point I was trying to make was that it is hard to have a discussion without all parties taking part. 

 

In regards to your point of:  "As I have already tried to explain, there are a few people here who have become hurt and mistrustful by the treatment they received at the hands of new posters over the last few months. Apparently, no one cares about that because no one bothered to respond. I guess it's beneath you and you just don't want to admit that this is an issue."

 

Your assumption that a lack of response to this means that we do not care is unjustified.  Please realize that a lack of response to this does not mean that I do not care, I do.  However it is rather difficult to have a discussion on that when it seems like you are talking for them and not from personal experience.  It is really difficult to have a conversation about a concern when those involved do not want to be part of the conversation.  Now, if you were one of the effected then please say so as I would love to have that conversation, but again it has seemed as if you are talking for those that were effected and not as an effected member of that group.

 

That said, my thoughts on that conversation are as follows.  As I have said before, there is a LOT of passion that surrounds these boards and the nook itself.  That passion is a good thing, and a bad thing.  While I do feel for those that were effected, I cannot do anything about what happened in the past to the group that feels abused, but what has happened does not excuse what is happening now.  Again though, saying this does nothing if they do not want to partake in the conversation.

 

As for your final point of "I have already said that the behavior you posted about happens and shouldn't. I'm not sure how many times I can say it before it's heard and understood. But you and others have no desire to see the other side of this. Until that effort is made, this thread is futile."  

I believe that it has been understood, (at least I understood it), and we all get that.  Nobody was pointing a finger at you and saying that you did not feel that way.  How that equates to us (or me for that matter) not having a desire to see the other side of it is beyond me as nobody has painted you as the bad guy. 

 

It seems to me that the problem here is that you feel a need to speak for those that are not speaking, much the same as I felt a need to do.  While you have agreed about the behavior, you have also placed yourself in the middle of the issue by attempting to speak for those who remain silent.  There is nothing wrong with that, but please realize that nobody is pointing the finger at you.  If there is a miscommunication anywhere, it may be in how your "points" are understood as I know that I personally do not always see/understand what it is that you are trying to say. 

 

As for your opinion.  I do want it, and I find what you have to say to be very interesting.  However if you could please be a little clearer in attempts to "explain" your points it would greatly help me as with my arms/hands and reading all the posts/discussions and typing I really dont sit and read between the lines (too busy trying to type out my thoughts without any typos).


To the bolded: as is your assumption as to why others haven't responded.

 

As for my speaking for others, I am speaking about my own observations and discussions I have had with others over the last few months.  It isn't just speculation and you shouldn't need me to personally lament in order to address it.  It is an issue, and that is what matters.

 

You say it's no excuse for the behavior, I say that it isn't an excuse: it's a reason why a couple of people react the way they do when they see a new post that is similar to those that abounded just recently.  I say that while these people definitely should take a step back and reevaluate their own behavior, a little compassion toward those who have been hurt while trying to help shouldn't be too much to ask for.

 

I also say that I believe that some people will think that certain posters are always being snarky, even when they aren't, simply because their names are attached to their posts.

 

If there is something in particular that I do not express well, please ask for clarification.  A general, "please be clearer," does not help because I will have no idea where the misunderstanding is.

 

This is as clear as I can make it:

 

  • People need to be respectful and civil.
  • People should not berate others or otherwise make fun of them for being less knowledgeable.
  • People need to pay more attention to what is actually being said and not automatically assume something is an attack
  • People should ask for clarification more often if they are unsure.

 

Distinguished Correspondent
Sir_Vikin
Posts: 83
Registered: ‎09-22-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[ Edited ]
@ Nallia - My apologies about your name.  It is in fact a typo, but one that I had not noticed and thus did not correct.  It shall not happen again.

 

I understand what you are saying concerning those who have been hurt.  I personally believe that we are all capable of compassion and if that is what it takes to help them "heal" then by all means they should be shown some compassion. 

 

In regards to asking for clarification...  I will try my best, but in regards to that, some of your posts feel more like you are angry for something that I do not understand, and then you follow that with an explanation that you were trying to "explain" something.  So I hope that you can see where I am coming from when I say that I am confused as I cannot tell when/if you are angry and when/if you are attempting to explain something.

 

As for the following:

This is as clear as I can make it:

 

  • People need to be respectful and civil.
  • People should not berate others or otherwise make fun of them for being less knowledgeable.
  • People need to pay more attention to what is actually being said and not automatically assume something is an attack
  • People should ask for clarification more often if they are unsure.

I cannot agree with you more.  As I mentioned in a previous post where I talked about ShilohMD and my disagreement, I believe that we are on the same page overall, but that the terminology/wording used is the cause of the misconception that we are at odds. 

 

Sometimes simpler is better...

“We all boil at different degrees” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Correspondent
Rocknsoul
Posts: 70
Registered: ‎01-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[ Edited ]

geatdanemomDT wrote:

 

My excuse is I was probably being poked in the back by a very bored Dane while writing it in the first place.


I almost ran over my sleeping Dane's head with my chair a minute ago...he very quietly puts his head under my chair & I forget he's there.

 

The two of them trapped me in a Dane sandwich in my bed the other night. Good thing it was a cold night!:smileyvery-happy:

 

P.S. OP, sorry for the OT...

Distinguished Correspondent
SLevine
Posts: 345
Registered: ‎03-08-2011

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

Hi All-

We want to remind you that there is a team of Moderators who work together to ensure that this community is a positive and welcoming atmosphere.  We absolutely appreciate the free-flowing discussion here and encourage the back-and-forth sharing, so long as we keep our words and tones respectful.

 

If you ever feel uncomfortable or mis-treated within this community, please do not hesitate to message one of the Moderators.

 

That said, we too are impressed with how this conversation thread has worked through tension towards thoughtful, respectful discussion.  Thank you! 

Distinguished Bibliophile
ABthree
Posts: 4,123
Registered: ‎01-27-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


Rocknsoul wrote:

I almost ran over my sleeping Dane's head with my chair a minute ago...he very quietly puts his head under my chair & I forget he's there.

 

The two of them trapped me in a Dane sandwich in my bed the other night. Good thing it was a cold night!:smileyvery-happy:

 

P.S. OP, sorry for the OT...


In this thread -- which in a fair world would have been pulled with its opposite number -- OT can only be an improvement!  :smileywink:

 

+LORD, preserve the good in their goodness, and+
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
AlanNJ
Posts: 3,722
Topics: 64
Kudos: 1,518
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.

►Without order there is chaos◄
Wordsmith
ProfReader
Posts: 1,138
Registered: ‎02-18-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

[ Edited ]

wow,they removed the best thread on here, now we can't have anymore fun.


AlanNJ wrote:

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.


 

Distinguished Correspondent
AndyfromVA
Posts: 474
Registered: ‎08-02-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


AlanNJ wrote:

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.


This thread certainly has the longest posts I've seen in the forum.  So long I honestly don't read them - I don't have the patience.  Isn't the repeated issuance of lengthy posts a violation of B&N's policy?

 

Bibliophile
bklvr896
Posts: 4,801
Registered: ‎12-31-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


ProfReader wrote:

wow,they removed the best thread on here, now we can't have anymore fun.


AlanNJ wrote:

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.


 


I'm a little late to the party here.  Which thread was pulled?  Other than that, I don't have anything useful to add to this thread.   

 

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,236
Registered: ‎02-15-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


bklvr896 wrote:

 


ProfReader wrote:

wow,they removed the best thread on here, now we can't have anymore fun.


AlanNJ wrote:

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.


 


I'm a little late to the party here.  Which thread was pulled?  Other than that, I don't have anything useful to add to this thread.   

 


Check your PMs.

 

Wordsmith
ProfReader
Posts: 1,138
Registered: ‎02-18-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

The one about whiners that AlanNJ wrote.


Nallia wrote:

 


bklvr896 wrote:

 


ProfReader wrote:

wow,they removed the best thread on here, now we can't have anymore fun.


AlanNJ wrote:

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.


 


I'm a little late to the party here.  Which thread was pulled?  Other than that, I don't have anything useful to add to this thread.   

 


Check your PMs.

 


 

Wordsmith
shilohMD
Posts: 371
Registered: ‎12-09-2010

Re: Nook board etiquette... Where is it?

 


AndyfromVA wrote:

 


AlanNJ wrote:

You would THINK this thread would have been pulled as well since there were specific situations mentioned with comments pertaining to why the poster disagreed with them.  Contrarily, the thread that was pulled did not speak to any specific situation and stayed within generalizations.  I'm confused.


This thread certainly has the longest posts I've seen in the forum.  So long I honestly don't read them - I don't have the patience.  Isn't the repeated issuance of lengthy posts a violation of B&N's policy?

 


B&N has a policy?? :smileyvery-happy:

 

"A bookstore is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking" [Jerry Seinfeld]