Why do free NOOKbooks require a credit card number when no purchase is necessary?

[MarinoR]

Indeed we are aware of the fact that Overdrive is a sideloding service.  However, we have to make sure that our staff can understand how these devices work.  We have a very diverse workforce :  some are very tech friendly, others are very much completely analog.  We have to start from scratch to make sure everything sinks in and our people to make patrons make accidental purchases.

[Ya_Ya]

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MarinoR wrote:

The problem becomes more evident when folks start to accidentally charge books to the account.

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Enable password protection for purchasing.  Only personnel qualified to purchase - or only the Director? - would have the password, and therefore only they (s/he) could purchase.  

[geertm]

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MarinoR wrote:

The problem becomes more evident when folks start to accidentally charge books to the account.  We have been in talks with other localities and they have experienced this quite often.  Not to mention that putting a credit card of any sort in a device like this can be potentially disastrous in an environment where it gets passed around by hundreds of people.  Accountability would be an issue.  Everyone would initially deny making the purchase.

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The credit card information is not stored on the Nook. Just a generated key. This is a one-way process. You cannot use the key to generate the credit card information it was created with.

The current firmware also lets you password protect the buying of books from the shop.

[MarinoR]

I agree that we should have looked at how this service worked before we purchased.  My wife has been using the Kindle for a while and, I must confess, I figured that B & N couldn't be that much different.  We've had zero problems with it.  With the Nooks we have had to call CS 4 times within the first 3 days of purchase.  We are still waiting for a title that is being "authorized" by the system and it should take 24 to 48 hours to download.  The CS guy actually said that.  And this is in a personal account WITH my personal credit card on file.  So far I am not impressed.  But we did make assumptions and we take responsability for that.  Still that does not change the fact that this requirement is purely designed to generate accidental and/or impulse revenue.

[MarinoR]

We will probably end up with the password setup as some of you have so helpfully suggested.  It seems it is the only way, as B & N does not seem open to helping us out any other way.  Thank you very much.

[Ya_Ya]

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MarinoR wrote:

The Kindle, Sony reader, etc., also works as advertised, and, interestingly, do not require a credit card to download public domain titles.  Also,  I don't remember reading anywhere in the advertisement material for the Nook that to download public domain materials (which are free of the copyright burden) you need to have a credit card, or even that their DRM scheme uses credit card numbers to generate your private keys.  Not sure what you mean by advertised.

I do agree that the ability to share your book collection is very handy.

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Download your public domain titles from Gutenberg and sideload them if this is an issue.

Yes, other devices also work as advertised.  You're not complaining about them, though.  Their DRM scheme is problematic for most people.  B&N's is less problematic.

You are complaining about NOOK, because you didn't research the issues at hand.  That's deplorable from a public library.  This page tells you that to use your NOOK at bn.com you need to have a credit card registered;.  A simple google would have told you this info as well.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/gettingstarted/index.asp?cds2Pid=35611

Maybe for your purpose NOOK isn't the best choice.  That's fine, but to blame them because it requires something they made no secret of, or to complain because it doesn't do something it didn't claim to do (even if other similar products do do it) reeks of entitlement.

[Ya_Ya]

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MarinoR wrote:

Still that does not change the fact that this requirement is purely designed to generate accidental and/or impulse revenue.

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No, it's designed to be a less restrictive DRM scheme.  Lovely that you'll just accuse people with little no evidence.  

[LarryOnLI]

@MarinoR

You seem to be making very little sense. To clarify:

1) You do not need a credit card on file to register your NOOK, only to download DRM protected content from B&N (something you indicate you will NOT be doing).

2) All the public domain titles available through B&N are available through other sources for side-loading. If all you are interested in is public domain titles then you don't need a credit card. If you intend to purchase non public domain material then you will need a credit card regardless of whether you are using Kindle, Nook, Sony, or Kobo.

3) If you want to be able to purchase a and download a book, but not have other devices associated with the account be able to make purchases, you can associate the credit card, make the purchase, download, and then remove the credit card.

4) Many of the public domains titles on B*N have no DRM and no credit card requirement to download. As someone who works in a library I'm sure you realize however that not everything that is free is in the public domain. So there are free titles that require DRM and will not be able to be downloaded without a credit card on file.

5) You can have a password required on the NOOK to make a purchase. I do not know if you have the credit card requirement for purchases if you can still "buy" a free book and download it without a password.

[bklvr896]

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MarinoR wrote:

.  Still that does not change the fact that this requirement is purely designed to generate accidental and/or impulse revenue.

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We'll I've had mine for almost a year and half now and I've managed to not make any accidental or impulse purchases.  I personally like the B&N DRM scheme since it's not tied to the device itself, seems less restrictive to me.  And I've never had to call B&N to get my device to work.  I had to call them once regarding a problem with a specific books, which they took care of immediately.

You also said:  It seems it is the only way, as B & N does not seem open to helping us out any other way.  

I'm not sure what you expect them to do.  The DRM is set up to use the CC and that's what generates the encryption key, not sure how they could possible get around that.

BTW, I understand completely about the paperwork associated with unauthorized purchase on a government credit card and sympathize.

[ThatDudeinHous…]

Why are some folks here berating those questioning the B&N CC on file policy? 

I will not apologize for not googling  possible use scenarios before I purchased this AS A GIFT for my daughter.  It looked good in the store and she had used on a relative owned and liked it.  That was good enough for me at the time.

Now, when she hits the shop button and sees a free book she'd like to have I must put my CC info in for a ZERO dollar download.  

The only solution is for me to slap my CC online permanently and password protect my gift from the person I gave it too.  

This is insanely stupid and quite annoying.  So annoying that we're (she and me) and contimplating returning it.  

But this entire thread is in digress..does anybody really know WHY B&N feels this is necessary?  (the opening question of this thread)

I can't think of one good reason other than to ensure an impulse purchase can be made without delay.  Fine, I get that.  It makes good sense for the seller but at an UNNECESSARY risk for the buyer IMHO.  Does this not ring any bells?  http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/04/playstation-network-hacked/

[keriflur]

Did you read this entire thread?  Entering your CC is not the only solution.  Get a pre-paid CC and enter that for her account.  Then she'll be able to load free books all day long.

Depending on how old your daughter is, this might be a good lesson in budgeting, if you let her load her allowance to the card to buy books.

[Ya_Ya]

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ThatDudeinHouston wrote:

But this entire thread is in digress..does anybody really know WHY B&N feels this is necessary?  (the opening question of this thread)

I can't think of one good reason other than to ensure an impulse purchase can be made without delay.  Fine, I get that.  It makes good sense for the seller but at an UNNECESSARY risk for the buyer IMHO.  Does this not ring any bells?  http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/04/playstation-network-hacked/

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B&N chose a "social DRM" scheme which ties the credit card on file to the book.  The downside is that a credit card must be on file.  

The upside is that if you bought yourself a NOOK, your wife got one, your son got, one your mother got one and your daughter's best friend got one, you could sideload any book to all of those NOOKs which are on their own accounts.  When prompted, you'd enter your unlock code (ie - credit card number, which isn't accessible on the device, ever) into those other NOOKs and your daughter could share that book with everyone mentioned.  Even other NOOK owners, at a later date.  [This procedure is detailed in the Two NOOKs link in my signature.]  

Everyone else's DRM is device specific.  You can only share your ebooks with someone you're willing to allow to register their device to your account - meaning giving your account login info to them.  Many prefer this method.  Most NOOK owners do not.

As to the "I must put my credit card online to be screwed comment", you've clearly not read the thread.  Prepaid Visa/MC/AMEX debit cards, tied to a physical address, fulfill the requirement.  So you can go to your bank, buy a $10 pre-paid card apply it, and your credit info is completely safe.  That's linked up there and referred to, multiple times.    http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/NOOK-Technical-Support/Child-acct-don-t-want-to-have-default-...

If that doesn't work for you, you probably should return it.  NOOK isn't the best choice for everyone, but it was an infinitely better choice, for me, than Kindle.  

[geertm]

What I do not understand in these discussions is the following:

Kinde DRM:

- Tied to the hardware ID of your ereader. You can make backups of your books, but you will not be able to read them on any other Kindle.

- To share a book the other ereader must be registered to your Kindle account, and wil have full access to that account.

- Without an online connection to Amazon's  DRM server you will not be able to transfer your books to another Kindle.

B&N DRM:

- Not tied to any hardware or software ID (only to your credit card info). You will be able read your backups on any ereader supporting the DRM.

- To share a book just copy it to an unlimited number of ereaders.

- After the book has been bought no DRM server is needed anymore. As long as there is an ereader supporting the DRM you will be able to read the book, even if B&N and their DRM server do not exist anymore.

Why are so many people complaining about B&N's DRM, the least restrictive DRM available, and not about the Kindle DRM?

[Ya_Ya]

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geertm wrote:

Why are so many people complaining about B&N's DRM, the least restrictive DRM available, and not about the Kindle DRM? 

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I don't understand either.  

It's not just Kindle, either.  Adobe DRM is device specific too, as I understand it.  

[bklvr896]

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Ya_Ya wrote:

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geertm wrote:

Why are so many people complaining about B&N's DRM, the least restrictive DRM available, and not about the Kindle DRM? 

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I don't understand either.  

It's not just Kindle, either.  Adobe DRM is device specific too, as I understand it.  

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To share books with Adobe DRM, the devices have to be registered to the same Adobe account.  Since these books are stored on your computer, this is a little easier than registering all Nooks to the same BN account.  You can't see each others books, but you can share them.  That's what I've done with my mom, her Nook is registered to My Adobe Account.

[Ya_Ya]

But that means there's some limit to the number of others you can share with if it's tied to Adobe ID, right?

I just see B&N's DRM as the least restrictive (yes, it's still too tightly controlle, too restrictive, but it's still less than the others) scheme out there...

How is your Mom liking her NOOK?  Are you ready to re-buy an N2E?

[bklvr896]

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Ya_Ya wrote:

But that means there's some limit to the number of others you can share with if it's tied to Adobe ID, right?

I just see B&N's DRM as the least restrictive (yes, it's still too tightly controlle, too restrictive, but it's still less than the others) scheme out there...

How is your Mom liking her NOOK?  Are you ready to re-buy an N2E?

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Yes, there's a limit and I too prefer B&N's DRM, I was just saying, you an share, but it is more restrictive and I'm not really sure when you open ADE if you have to have an internet connection or not, for books that are already downloaded.

Mom is so incredibly happy with her Nook.  We were able to recently download the current book for her bookclub from the library, which excited her no end and she couldn't wait to let the others in book club know about.  

I'm still not ready to buy one for me, there are still a couple of things I like better in the N1E, one of which is the syncing of the wishlist to the website.  Since I browse at BN and add books to my wishlist while in the store, the N2E wouldn't work for that, I really hope they change.  I also don't like the way you have to shelve books on the N2E.  So, I'm going to wait and see what the first couple of updates bring, and then maybe.  But I like my N1E, I like having 3G, so I'm sticking with it for now.

[KingAl]

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geertm wrote:

Why are so many people complaining about B&N's DRM, the least restrictive DRM available, and not about the Kindle DRM?

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I don't believe most Kindle users are aware that the file is tied to the device.

[edu500acEC]

I have three Kindles, and two Nooks. I can read any book I buy from Amazon in any of my Kindles, and I often do it (I have all my books in all Kindles). Therefore, I don't understand that issue of books set for one reader.

[Ya_Ya]

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edu500acEC wrote:

Therefore, I don't understand that issue of books set for one reader.

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Nobody said "one reader."  Device-specific was the term used; you can send those books to up to six devices at a time, as long as those Kindles are registered to your account.  (Some books, it's supposedly only two, but I've never actually encountered such a book or heard anyone else who has, either.)

With NOOK, I can put that book on the NOOKs of every girl in my bookclub if I wanted to, in addition to my phone, my NOOK, my NOOK PC and my husband's phone..