Will ATT/B&N 3G partnership continue even though the WiFi+3G is discontinued? [ Edited ]

[ynot22]

Does anyone know if the ATT/B&N 3G partnership will continue even though the Nook WiFi+3G e-reader is discontinued?

If this has been asked elsewhere, please don't jump down my throat.  But do please direct me to  the thread. I have done a search and found nothing on this specific topic.

Remember now, at one time we had the choice between a WiFi and a WiFi +3G. The WiFi was $149 and the +3G version was $199.

AS far as I know the only difference between the two was the addition of 3G to the $199 version.

So it appears 3G owners paid $50 additional for the ability to use 3G to buy books if for some reason WiFi was not available.

There is a frequent poster here who seem to harp continually using the word "entitlement" sarcastically when someone seems to believe B&N might "owe" them something for some reason or other.

Allow me to tell you all this: I paid a $50 premium to have 3G capability on my Nook.

If ATT/B&N terminates their relationship with the end result being my losing 3G capability I will feel I am OWED something,

Therefore I will feel ENTITLED to $50 in goods, discounts on goods or something worth $50.

If 3G dies on our Nooks, I hope some attorney who owns a 3G feels he or she is entitled to $50 and files a class action suit against B&N on behalf of all 3G owners.

I would wager the attorney would also sue for his or her legal fees.

A suit like this could be rather large and quite costly to B&N depending on how many people joined the class action.

 I wonder how many 3Gs B&N sold/will sell before they are done?

I know I would join the suit. if it's ever filed. Hold on to your receipts people.

[KingAl]

The lawsuit would probably get dismissed. See http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/legal/index.asp?PID=37597

13. Changes to Service; Amendment. We may, in our sole discretion, change, modify, suspend, make improvements to or discontinue any aspect of the Service, temporarily or permanently, at any time without notice to you, and we will not be liable for doing so.

[ynot22]

Holy bleep!

I clicked on that hot link.

I think the writing is designed to induce a coma or, at the very least, a trance-like state in the reader resulting in non-rememberance of the incomprehensible veriage.

What a perfect example of "fine print." Somehow I neglected to read it beore I bought the Nook with 3G.

I say sue the illegitmates anyway if they do away with 3G.

Reading that legal mumbo jumbo would be a good penalty for a 2nd deg. felony.

"I hereby sentence you to 5 years in state prison or to reading the legal agreement that comes with ownership of the Nook ereader," said the judge.

"No problem, your honor. I'll take the nickel. And thank you for giving me a choice," said the prisoner.

[KingAl]

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ynot22 wrote:

Holy bleep!

I clicked on that hot link.

I think the writing is designed to induce a coma or, at the very least, a trance-like state in the reader resulting in non-rememberance of the incomprehensible veriage.

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Of course it is... what do you expect from lawyers?

[TNS]

At this point the NOOK 1st gen with 3g+wifi is not discontiued.

[GordonF]

While I'm not privvy to the contract B&N signed with AT&T (they look ominous when typed together like that...), I would imagine that the 3G contract lasts as long as the device.

The only thing to keep in mind is that 3G is on its way out, and that 4G Networks - once installed - are not backwards compatible. How long that could take, who knows. I'd hazard a guess of no more than another 2 years before 3G is effectively a dead network.

[whiteginger]

Although N1E has not yet been officially discontinued, I feel certain that it inevitably will be.  I, too, purchased the WiFi+3G model at retail price because the 3G service was important to me.  And I have used my 3G almost exclusively.  I did not and have not fretted about spending that extra $50 for something I considered important. (I did, however, lust after the NOOKcolor when it was introduced 3-4 months after I bought my N1E!)

I worked my N1E quite hard during its first two weeks, just to make sure I really loved it and that it worked to my satisfaction.  I did not purchase an extended warranty, so I figured that after the 14-day trial period my money, including the $50 I chose to spend for 3G would not be returned.

When B&N discontinues N1E and/or no longer supports the 3G connectivity, I will not join a class action law suit for compensation.  I have gotten what I paid for and loved every minute of it.  Perhaps I simply have no litigious nature.

For all those wishing to join such a suit, I wish you well.  I simply think you should know that not all 3G owners would join you in your fight.

A happy N1E 3G owner.

[GordonF]

Also being a Nook 3G owner - I've gotten what I expected out of the device. Though I use 3G a lot less than i thought I might have, but I did get the Nook when there was only one model, so I didn't have much choice to think over. . .

It is, in my opinion, silly and unrealistic to expect Service Forever on whatever kind of communication you buy.

but then, I work in Telecommunications and I'll tell you now: they're are already people working on what 5G will look like and we haven't even gotten 4G up and fully running.

there is no permanence in modern technology. annual updates are becoming the norm.

[Ridiculosity]

I hope it's not discontinued.  I know the device itself will be discontinued, but I expect the 3G to provided for an objective average life span.  If a device is objectively supposed to last for 5 years, maybe, say, 3 years of service beyond EOL is appropriate.  But as I said in another post, the looming specter of discontinued 3G, discontinued software support and discontinued replacement batteries (none of which are actually confirmed to be going away as of yet) is enough to make me question my choice of Nook over Kindle.  If all three of those things were to go away before 2011 runs out, you can bet I'll be heading to Kindleland with my next ereader.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my Nook, but having experienced both, it was the android-upgrade-capability and battery replacements that took me to Nook.  I hope they don't take them away from me. 

[RSC_Nook]

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GordonF wrote:

While I'm not privvy to the contract B&N signed with AT&T (they look ominous when typed together like that...), I would imagine that the 3G contract lasts as long as the device.

The only thing to keep in mind is that 3G is on its way out, and that 4G Networks - once installed - are not backwards compatible. How long that could take, who knows. I'd hazard a guess of no more than another 2 years before 3G is effectively a dead network.

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I would think it would be much longer than 2 years.  the majority of the phones sold by the major carriers are astill 3g.  there are android phones coming out in the summer / early fall that are still 3g that require a 2 year agreement.  Phones do not get released and then only 'sold' for 1-2 months, so they will be on sale for at least a year. 

These phones require a 2 year agreement.  If I am buying a 6 month old phone in Jan 2012 I don;t see a carrier telling me they phone won't work in 16 months yet I still have to pay for it for another 6 months.

I am shure 3g will phase out eventually.  I don't see it happening in just 2 years or LESS

[GordonF]

It should be made perfectly clear:

In all likelyhood the loss of 3G may be completely out of Barnes & Nobles hands, AT&T themselves may simply shut the network off in the next two years.

[MikeNC]

As far as I know, there is nothing about the changeover to 4G (ie. LTE) that would cause the networks to discontinue 3G data service.  AT&T will be committed to continuing 3G for quite some time, for those devices already in service (heck, they still run their EDGE network to support those devices without 3G).  Especially since LTE requires hardware upgrades and is not something that can be offered as a software upgrade to exisiting device owners.

Does anyone even know what the terms or limits of the existing B&N deal is with AT&T for 3G service?  While I'd expect it to be around for a few years, to honor the commitment to those devices in use now, I would not expect it to continue indefinitely.  At some point it must become marginal to coninue for those few devices still around and in use, but I'd think that would not be for awhile.  Keep in mind that they are still selling the first generation Nook, including the 3G version, and will do so until their available stock is depleted.

[RSC_Nook]

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GordonF wrote:

It should be made perfectly clear:

In all likelyhood the loss of 3G may be completely out of Barnes & Nobles hands, AT&T themselves may simply shut the network off in the next two years.

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How can they still be selling phones through at least the fall that require a 2 year agreement yet shut off the 3g network before the 2 years is up?

I am not saying 3g wil be around forever.  but you have now posted twice you think 3g will be turned off before the next 2 years is up.  I am not buying that.  there are NEW 3g devices being introduced in 3-4 months, I don't see carriers selling a phone with a 2 yr contract they will then turn off ability to use in 15 months into the life of the contract

[GordonF]

LTE is NOT the actual 4G standard. It is being allowed to be marketed as 4G, with the Requirement they add LTE.

LTE is effectively 3.5G; "4G LTE" is not actually 4G. No one has installed 4G yet.

As for the two year contract, welcome to American Phone companies - all of which allow you to "upgrade to a new phone with a new contract" after 12-14 months.

It's an unfortunate Lock In based on the way we do business over here.

I don't have an actual time frame, 2 years is a rough guess, some basic predictions is that by 2013 4G should be fully active, and that even some of the underlying technology of 3G (Circuit Switching) will be gone regardless of what anybody actually wants (because the FCC wants to turn off the PSTN).

[MikeNC]

Also keep in mind that LTE, at least for now, only supports data - it does not include any support for voice transmissions nor SMS messaging.  So even as they roll out their LTE data networks, they HAVE to keep 3G active to handle voice anyway.  Most of the tech-news types seem to think 3G will be around for at least another decade or longer (heck, the FCC may make them keep it on for a long time, just as they did with analog service).

Both AT&T and Verizon have recently had press releases saying they are still expanding their 3G service to fill in coverage gaps.  it's not going away anytime soon I'd say - LTE will just roll out in parallel to it.

[GordonF]

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MikeNC wrote:

Also keep in mind that LTE, at least for now, only supports data - it does not include any support for voice transmissions nor SMS messaging.  So even as they roll out their LTE data networks, they HAVE to keep 3G active to handle voice anyway.  Most of the tech-news types seem to think 3G will be around for at least another decade or longer (heck, the FCC may make them keep it on for a long time, just as they did with analog service).

Both AT&T and Verizon have recently had press releases saying they are still expanding their 3G service to fill in coverage gaps.  it's not going away anytime soon I'd say - LTE will just roll out in parallel to it.

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A more likely scenario (in my mind) is that once 4G data is in place it's not going to be difficult to change that to full 4G (which has the same standards requirement of Voice+Data on the same pipe as 3G did originally - remember that was part of 3Gs big deal: data+voice, 2G could handle one or the other). Adding Voice/SMS to the network - bringing voice off of the Circuit Switch and PSTN completely - isn't hard once the main issue of data is in place, using Packet Switching.

"LTE" is a stopgap because the full 4G standard is not backwards compatible and the economic reality is you can't force a couple hundred million phone users to buy new phones instantly.

[Ya_Ya]

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ynot22 wrote:

Allow me to tell you all this: I paid a $50 premium to have 3G capability on my Nook.

If ATT/B&N terminates their relationship with the end result being my losing 3G capability I will feel I am OWED something,

Therefore I will feel ENTITLED to $50 in goods, discounts on goods or something worth $50.

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How long do you feel entitled to AT& 3G service?  Forever?

I don't disagree that when one is sold a product one is owed that product to work.  

However, I think it is entirely unreasonabl to feel entitled to 3G in five years, ten years, forever.  For the one or two years the current units are under B&N warranty that expectation is entirely reasonable, IMO.  (Probably even for another year.  Beyond that, I think it might be an unrealistic expectation.)

I, personally, supsect that once the current 3G contracts are up, they won't be renewed.  I have no idea when said contracts expire (although I'm sure one could find that info if one wanted to) and I have no insider information, it just seems logical, IMO.  

[LarryOnLI]

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Ya_Ya wrote:

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ynot22 wrote:

Allow me to tell you all this: I paid a $50 premium to have 3G capability on my Nook.

If ATT/B&N terminates their relationship with the end result being my losing 3G capability I will feel I am OWED something,

Therefore I will feel ENTITLED to $50 in goods, discounts on goods or something worth $50.

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How long do you feel entitled to AT& 3G service?  Forever?

I don't disagree that when one is sold a product one is owed that product to work.  

However, I think it is entirely unreasonabl to feel entitled to 3G in five years, ten years, forever.  For the one or two years the current units are under B&N warranty that expectation is entirely reasonable, IMO.  (Probably even for another year.  Beyond that, I think it might be an unrealistic expectation.)

I, personally, supsect that once the current 3G contracts are up, they won't be renewed.  I have no idea when said contracts expire (although I'm sure one could find that info if one wanted to) and I have no insider information, it just seems logical, IMO.  

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I personally am confident that my 3G capable first edition NOOK will continue to work over the 3G network for the remainder of it's (hopefully very long) life.

While, as has been pointed out above, B&N has the right to change the terms of service and discontinue the 3G, that would be a very poor marketing decision on their part.

B&N has stopped making 3G devices. All they need do is wait until they all break or are retired. Each year their 3G data bill will drop as fewer and fewer devices will be using it.

There are precedents for this. The first generation of Kindles used Sprint as their wireless provider. When Amazon switched to AT&T for the Kindle2 international and latter versions the Kindle1 continued (and still continues) to function.

[RHWright]

Even given it's limited use (B&N shop only, downloading of content), I can't see that extra $50 reasonably covering more than 1-2 years of 3G service. (Which syncs up nicely with the warranty period.) So once the last person buys the last N1E, the clock is ticking. If B&N turns off 3G 365 days after that, I'll say we got our $50 worth.

Just my 2 cents.

[Nom-de-Nook]

So much speculation with absolutely no facts!

There is no indication that ATT will be turning off 3G in the next 5-10 years let alone 2 (think all those "entitled" iPhone/iPad owners would accept that without squealing?  all iPhones are still 3G including the iPhone 4 and iPad2)

There is no indication that BN will let its contract for 3G expire.

Everyone is just getting worked up for nothing.  As for that $50 premium for a 3G device, my guess is that by the time 3G is no longer available, we will all have gotten more than our money's worth for that premium.