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Am I killing my battery?
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08-17-2010 04:26 PM
Hey guys! First I'd like to say I love this forum since I found it. So much help! So hopefully no one else has asked this kind of silly question before.
I'm wondering what normal battery life of the Nook should be especially with heavy use.
The advertisements state it will last a week? Or X amount of page turns. How realistic is this?
Because I have been using my nook every single day few I would say 3 hours for about a week now. I had to recharge it this weekend and today. I leave my Nook on sleep mode, even when I'm going to bed, because I know I'm going to use it the next day.
Is this a normal battery life for a heavy user? Or is something wrong with it? If this is normal battery life... I'm kind of peeved! I feel like it should last longer.
Re: Am I killing my battery?
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08-17-2010 04:43 PM
@suzzers,
Thank you for posting. We're striving to improve the reading experience and your input is valuable.
The NOOK's battery is designed to restrict power once fully charged; this feature allows the user to leave the device charging unsupervised. The orange light indicator (located at the bottom of the device) will turn off when the NOOK is fully charged; also restricting the power source.
With regards to setting "high and low battery levels"; our developers have provided these charging recommendations to maximize battery life. *Partially discharge the battery rather than fully discharging it. For example, charge your NOOK when you see the low charge alert, rather than continuing to use it until it turns off itself.
Avoid high temperatures if possible for use and storage
*charge the battery half way before storing your NOOK for a week or
more.
*Turn your NOOK off for storage. If you are going to store your NOOK for
more that a week, turn it off.
You can leave the device plugged in, and it won’t ruin the battery. Allowing the battery to discharge and then fully charge from time to time will extend the overall length of the battery. However, this won’t be noticed until after several charges.
Re: Am I killing my battery?
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08-17-2010 04:46 PM - edited 08-17-2010 04:48 PM
The usual numbers bandied about, for straight reading, are maybe 1000 page turns or 10 hours. That's with the wireless shut off (which is off when you're reading), and not shopping or checking The Daily or playing games or anything. It's also letting the NOOK sleep (or putting it to sleep) when you leave it, rather than shutting it down and restarting it every time.
Because usage is so different for different people, it's hard to give any sort of real guideline.
I recharge my cell phone more often than I recharge my NOOK. That's good enough for me.
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08-17-2010 05:20 PM
@suzzers
Welcome! ![]()
As Doug says, battery life varies widely with use; keeping it in Airplane Mode except when you actually want to update something or shop will help. Your battery life will also lengthen somewhat as you use your Nook more.
I use my Nook a couple of hours a day, and recharge it every three or four days, at which point it's down to about 25%. There's no problem with your waiting until the Nook gives you the "low charge" message. Don't let it go much below that, though.
Have fun!
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
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08-17-2010 05:55 PM
Thanks for the advice guys! I do leave it on airplane mode unless I'm trying to download a book, which does help.
I was really hoping I wouldn't have to charge the Nook this much but I guess it isn't as bad as my iphone (every other day, if not every night!) but I can deal with it.
I guess I read too much!
I've also read somewhere on here that using the battery ALL THE WAY, until it shuts off, and then charging it up all the way to 100% helps to calibrate the battery/extends the life of it. Is this true? Because the Admin above said not to do that... hmm.
Thanks for the quick responses guys! It's encouraging that the Nook has such a good communtiy to help fix problems.
Nothing better than a community!
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08-17-2010 06:01 PM
suzzers wrote:
I've also read somewhere on here that using the battery ALL THE WAY, until it shuts off, and then charging it up all the way to 100% helps to calibrate the battery/extends the life of it.
There's a chance the NOOK won't charge again if you discharge it until the NOOK shuts down. The recommendation now is to discharge it only until you get the first warning (at 15%), then recharge. All that really accomplishes (in theory) is that it helps calibrate the level meter so that the percentage levels that you see will be more accurate. It won't affect the amount of usage you get from the battery.
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08-17-2010 06:23 PM
I got almost a week out of my last charge (charged at 25%), and I'm using it at least four hours a day. Not bad.....
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08-18-2010 01:55 PM
Allowing the battery to discharge and then fully charge from time to time will extend the overall length of the battery. However, this won’t be noticed until after several charges.
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08-18-2010 02:07 PM
suzzers wrote:The advertisements state it will last a week? Or X amount of page turns. How realistic is this?
I'm not sure how realistic the "X amount of page turns" per hour is, but I will tell you that I found the variation in page turns doesn't seem to greatly affect the percent of battery drain per hour.
Though the sample pool is small, I still find it useful to tell you about the battery drain test I did almost a month ago.
- 6 trials in airplane mode at 30 page turns per hour for an hour resulted in an average battery loss of 5.16%
- 5 trials in airplane mode at 60 page turns per hour for an hour resulted in an average battery loss of 5.4%
Just some food for thought.
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08-18-2010 11:39 PM
Talk about coincidence? I brought my Nook back to the store because the battery kept running down every other day. The other day I went to read and it was completely out. I recharged and when I "woke" it up my library was empty. It said "no items." I freaked b/c I had just bought 3 books. The clerk said she thought the battery should last longer but she called someone (must be a Nook teckie or something) and he asked if I was a fast reader. I am, so he said that I just read too fast and the battery runs down quicker every time you turn the page. Well I do read a lot but that's why I thought the Nook would be a good idea. I still like it, but no too happy about charging it all the time. It seems whenever I'm away from an outlet, that's when it's down to about 23%. I leave it on airplane mode all the time now (except when book shopping) and it helps a bit. Another tip I got was to make sure I used by fingertips to turn the pages rather than the buttons as that saves battery as well. Hope any of this helps.
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08-19-2010 09:46 AM
Dot_Reader wrote:... he said that I just read too fast and the battery runs down quicker every time you turn the page...
That doesn't sound right to me, but I might have to do some more trials. I'll post my findings later today.
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08-19-2010 10:56 AM - edited 08-19-2010 10:59 AM
Faison wrote:
Dot_Reader wrote:... he said that I just read too fast and the battery runs down quicker every time you turn the page...
That doesn't sound right to me, but I might have to do some more trials. I'll post my findings later today.
If I start reading with 100% charge and read straight through, my battery will die in 8 - 10 hours. For me, that's about 1,000 page turns. No matter how little I read each day, my battery lasts about 1,000 page turns. It's been this way since I got my NOOK in February.
It takes no power at all to keep a page on the screen (that's why the last image showing can "freeze" on the screen when the battery completely dies); it does take power to change what is on the screen. That's why reading fast runs through the battery faster. More page turns = more battery power used.
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08-19-2010 11:05 AM - edited 08-19-2010 11:07 AM
Faison wrote:That doesn't sound right to me, but I might have to do some more trials. I'll post my findings later today.
Ok, I just did one trial of 4 page turns per minute for an hour using the buttons (240 page turns). wi-fi is off, airplane mode on, and only 6% battery drain.
I won't be doing anymore trials today as work is a bit busier than I thought it'd be.
Nallia, is your airplane mode off or on? Do you have a wi-fi location where you read? Someone at the nookdev community found that the nook likes to "call home" every so often (activating 3G for a bit, checking with b&n, and shutting off) and that can take a bit of juice out of the battery over time. If we pretend for a moment that my hour test above was done for 1000 pages at the same rate, that's around 4.15 hours and only gives an estimated drain of 24.9%.
If the amount of page turns don't really affect battery drain, then 8 hours of useage (airplane mode on, touchscreen off) I figure would drain 40%-50% of the battery
Unfortunately, the above trial is only one, and you can't make a proper curve with just one line.
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08-19-2010 11:19 AM - edited 08-19-2010 11:22 AM
I always have Airplane Mode ON. My touch screen is set to turn off after 10 seconds, and my touchscreen brightness is set as far down as it will go. I also have auto-brightness turned OFF. My font is always set to extra small, so I have to turn pages less often.
There have been many trials performed by many people over the 8+ months that the NOOK has been out, and they all say about the same thing that I just did, no matter the software version. I started on 1.2, and have had the same experience on 1.3 and 1.4, and on two different NOOKS because I got a replacement for a cracked button on June 8th.
It has also been found by many that the battery drain is slower until the battery reaches between 40% and 50%, and then it tends to drain faster.
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08-19-2010 11:38 AM
Nallia wrote:
It has also been found by many that the battery drain is slower until the battery reaches between 40% and 50%, and then it tends to drain faster.
Yeah, I was just thinking about that actually. You know, that nothing goes at a perfectly linear rate. All of the tests I've done are above 60% battery. Weird that things should work that way.
Regardless, I find the belief that the battery drain is directly and massively related to page turns to be hard to swallow.
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08-19-2010 11:47 AM
Though I don't think I'm getting the battery life that's talked about in the marketing materials, I don't really expect this of any product. It's a combination of hype and "ideal conditions".
Practically though, unlike devices such as my cell phone or Palm handheld, I have never run across a situation where the device ran down to unusability in the midst of what I wanted to do.
So I count that as acceptable battery life and power mangement.
Doesn't hurt that the use curve and percentage seems to be fairly accurate on my nook, so I can charge it back up before it runs down. My phone seems to go from full charge to no charge in the blink of an eye and with little warning. (Damn you, Nokia!
)
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08-20-2010 11:19 AM
I'm an electronics engineer, and might be able to add some insight here. I obviously don't know everything about how the battery and charging circitry is set up on the Nook, but I've designed several Lithium Ion based systems, and can make some general comments.
On the Nook, as someone has already stated, the eink screen only uses power when there is a refresh or a page turn. That's why it actaully displays something when it's sleeping. I'm also assuming that the microprocessor inside is sleeping most of the time, and only wakes up when you hit the button.
Comparatively, the Wifi, 3G, LCD, and touch screen capabilities, use HUGE amounts of power compared to the microprocessor and the eink screen. Even notive your nook get warm when you use Wifi or 3G for an extemnded period. There's a reason for that, it's using lots and lots of power. If you're just reading and turning the page, you arne't using much power at all.
All this is why the estimations for battery life are so weird to some people. If you keep turning on the color LCD for example, you're drawing an awful lot of power, at least compared to the power required to turn the page every so often. If you accidently activate the LCD while running a battery life test, you've just added a huge amount of inconsistency to your test, and you might as well start over.
Lithium Ion cells lose overall capacity based on time, but mostly charge cycles. Most cells are rated for 500 full charge cycles, after which the capacity of the cell with be aound 80% of a new one. This is why if you keep a cell phone for years, and charge it every day, you'll eventually need to replace the battery.
Lithium Ion charge and discharge curves are tricky. At the high end (fully charged) the voltage level of the cell is at its highest. When the cell is nearly depleted, the voltage level is lower. Lithium Ions have a discahrge curve that starts high, drops to the middle and stays nearly flat in voltage for most of the discharge (say 70% of the capacity), then drops sharply at the bottom end. Some might notice that the battery levels seem to drop much faster when it is at a low level. This is just a simple voltage-to-current effect. The higher the voltage of the battery (at a high charge level), the less current required. At a low charge level, the voltage is lower, thus more current is required to maintain the same amount of power usage, and therefore, the level drops more quickly.
The level indicator, mostly likely, relies on what is commonly called a 'fuel gauge' or a 'Coulomb counter'. It's sole job in life is to watch how much current is going into or out of the lithium cell. Some fuel gauges do a beter job than others, the Nook's seems to do fairly well really. The think about fuel gagues is that they must 'learn' about the cell.
Remember earlier that I said the capacity of the cell changes over its lifespan? Well, fuel gagues must account for this, and other factors that effect the performance of the lithium cells. For a fuel gauge to 'learn', it needs to watch a full charge and discharge cycle for the battery. This is why some recommend that from time to time to discharge the battery completely, and charge completely again. This will retrain the fuel gauge, and give the higher level software on a the Nook a better idea of what its battery is doing.
Software, and maybe some hardware, automatically turns off the nook when the lithium cells get to a certain low level. It's true that if a lithium cell is discharged too low, that is cannot be recharged again. However, unless the Nook has a HUGE design flaw, this cant' actaully happen with normal usage, even if you run it down until it turns off, and keep trying to turn it on again. The lithium cells will have protection hardware that will protect them from both under voltage (over discharge, which destroyes the cells ability to recharge), and over voltage (over charging, which degrades the cells ability to hold a charge, and will eventually lead to a fire if the voltage is too high). You probably don't need to worry about that last fire bit, but I've seen it before... I have a good video...anway...
Someone mentioned that its possible that the Nook jsut won't work if you discharge too low. As I said before, unless someone messed up when they designed the protection circuitry, this isna't really a possibility.
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08-20-2010 02:06 PM
@Infinion
Welcome! ![]()
Thanks for the interesting post, and all of your insights. Facts can only improve the quality of the conversation.
+in your kindness, make the wicked become good.+
-- St. Basil the Great+
Flat batteries and the NOOK
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08-20-2010 05:42 PM - edited 08-20-2010 05:44 PM
Infinion wrote:
It's true that if a lithium cell is discharged too low, that is cannot be recharged again. However, unless the Nook has a HUGE design flaw, this cant' actaully happen with normal usage, even if you run it down until it turns off, and keep trying to turn it on again.
Whether or not you'd call it HUGE, there are those who believe that there is indeed a design flaw. I'm not taking sides on this, because I've never personally wandered into that low-charge regime.
As I understand it:
The NOOK will not charge when turned off. If you plug it in to charge it, it turns itself on. If there's not enough charge in the battery to turn itself on, there's supposed to be an automatic trickle-charge to the battery. During trickle-charge, the "charging" light will not come on, and the NOOK will not turn on, so there is no indication that anything is happening. Once the battery is charged up enough to run the NOOK, then the NOOK turns on, the light comes on, and we're back to normal.
In the past, people who were having charging problems with a non-responsive NOOK were advised to remove the battery and boot the NOOK from the power cable. Once the NOOK was on and running, then the battery would be reinstalled (with the unit "hot") and allowed to charge. Personally—and again I have no firsthand knowledge—I always suspected that this was just a way to achieve immediate gratification without having to wait for the trickle charge. As of the 1.4 version of software, this technique no longer works reliably and B&N actively discourages running the NOOK with no battery.
For a while, another technique emerged involving "jump-starting" the NOOK with a charged battery (typically at a B&N store), connecting the charging cable, then hot-swapping in the flat battery to charge. If I understand correctly, this technique is also no longer recommended by B&N.
Still as I understand it:
The current B&N recommendation is to remove the battery, then hold the power button down for 45-60 seconds to assure full discharge and shutdown of the NOOK. The NOOK and battery are then left alone for 15-30 minutes, separate, without the charging cable connected, to "allow the battery to reset" (I don't know what this means for a Li-polymer battery). Then the battery is reinstalled, the charging cable connected, and normal recharging is performed, which probably includes the "no sign of life" trickle-charge stage.
It is possible that when the NOOK comes on, the battery-level indicator on the E-Ink screen has a question mark, indicating that the level indicator is unable to get a usable reading. B&N's current recommendation if that happens is to swap the battery for a known good battery to clear the question mark, then swap the original battery back in. It's unclear to me if this is to be done with power on or off, and with charging cable connected or disconnected.
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08-20-2010 10:11 PM
Infinion wrote:-Snip- Lithium Ion based systems -mega snip
Isn't the nook lithium polymer, or are the two the same?