Now that the iPad/iPhone/iPod apps are "terminal"...

[Doug_Pardee Distinguished Bibliophile]

On July 1st, Apple will be removing the e-reader apps for non-Apple e-book stores from its iOS App Store. Technically, the outside vendors (Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Google, etc.) could provide new e-reader apps, but the conditions that Apple has imposed are untenable: the new apps must provide in-app purchasing in which Apple gets 30% of each sale, which is every penny that e-book stores make on Agency Model titles and considerably more than they make on almost any non-Agency title, and the e-book stores can only carry 3000 titles for iPad/iPhone/iPod. All current bets are that it ain't gonna happen and that all of the e-book stores will need to abandon the iPad/iPhone/iPod.

Now that B&N's app developers have no reason to spend any more time working on the iOS apps, maybe they can start working on Blackberry, Mac, Linux, Windows Phone, etc.  One can only hope.

[Anne007]

Great, I hadn't heard that.  What happens to the e-books I've purchased if I don't have an alternative device from which to read them?

I purchased a nook book last night and it didn't download correctly.  Now I can't get to BN.com from my I-pad for some reason in order to attempt the download again.  So I added the nook application to my blackberry and tried to read my book from there and got a message that this product could not be read from this device.

My money is out in cyberspace somewhere along with my book.  I would be a fool to continue to order more...

[cbtengr]

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Anne007 wrote:

Great, I hadn't heard that.  What happens to the e-books I've purchased if I don't have an alternative device from which to read them?

I purchased a nook book last night and it didn't download correctly.  Now I can't get to BN.com from my I-pad for some reason in order to attempt the download again.  So I added the nook application to my blackberry and tried to read my book from there and got a message that this product could not be read from this device.

My money is out in cyberspace somewhere along with my book.  I would be a fool to continue to order more...

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Please give more info.

- Does the BN page for the book show which devices will work?

- Does it show in your online BN library?

- If so, try Archive - Unarchive

- Try to download again

[swandy]

Doug where did you read this because I cannot find anything about it. Thanx I did find this http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html and all it does is require any publisher that allows "out of app purchasers" , like BN and Amazon, to offer in app purchases through the app store. It does not say that BN cannot sell books through their website, only that they cannot provide a direct link like the Nook apps do now. At least that is how I am reading it.

[swan480]

I can't find an article specifically stating they'll remove the apps from the app store on July 1st, but I did find plenty about the war Apple has started with Sony.

Essentially, Apple rejected Sony's app because it didn't give them their 30 percent cut.  I found some articles hinting that ebook stores such as Amazon and B&N have until June (i.e., July 1st) to work things out with Apple.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrends/20110201/tc_digitaltrends/applerejectssonyebookstoresaysappsca...

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2011/01/apples-rules-ereader-apps-effect-ipad-users/

In the meantime, it seems like Sony is fighting back:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/11/sony-to-ditch-itunes-sony_n_822193.html

I hope the ebook stores win, but honestly, the outcome of this will determine whether I ever get another iPhone.  One of the biggest reasons why I have an iPhone is because of the ability to read ebooks on it.  If Apple takes that away from me, I won't have any reason to make my next phone another iPhone, particularly if they are talking about reaching into our iPhones and removing the app from there, too.

I'm also glad we haven't yet bought that iPad we've been considering.  It's looking like we'll be getting a Nook instead.

[swan480]

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swandy wrote:

Doug where did you read this because I cannot find anything about it. Thanx I did find this http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html and all it does is require any publisher that allows "out of app purchasers" , like BN and Amazon, to offer in app purchases through the app store. It does not say that BN cannot sell books through their website, only that they cannot provide a direct link like the Nook apps do now. At least that is how I am reading it.

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I'm reading it as saying that all purchases that you can make from their website will have to ALSO be offered within the app, so that Apple can take their cut.  Since that cut will eliminate B&N's cut, and since it'll take an awful lot of programming to make all of the ebooks available within the app, I don't think that's going to happen -- and Apple will remove their app from the store if they don't do it.

[swan480]

For those who read exclusively from the iPhone, and are concerned about how you'll continue to read B&N ebooks, never fear -- there is a way!  Bluefire Reader can read B&N ebooks, although you'll have to download the files to your computer and then manually upload to your iPhone.  You'll also have to input your name and credit card number, exactly the way it appears in your account, in order to unlock encrypted ebooks.

The good news is that you'll be able to continue to read your B&N ebooks on your iPhone, even if Apples decides to play Hand of God and remove the Nook app from your device.  Also, I think Bluefire is a far superior reader than the Nook app, so Apple may actually be doing you a favor.

[cbtengr]

I wonder if Apple will ban the Bluefire reader from the app store.

[swandy]

I think that we are interpreting the "cut" that Apple wants. I would assume it 30% of the percentage that BN or Amazon get from the publisher, not 30% of the purchase price.

[swan480]

Their changes appear to only address apps from booksellers.  Since you don't buy anything through Bluefire (it's a third-party reader) I wouldn't think so.

If they change the policy to include ANY ebook reader, I think they would be hurting themselves, because they would be going beyond wanting commissions, to the point of trying to establish a monopoly on Apple-read ebooks.  It would only hurt their image and possibly their product sales, since the iPad is marketed to a great degree as an ebook reader, and quite frankly, iBooks's selection sucks.

[GlueFactoryBJJ]

The articles about this policy change and quotes from Apple on cNet.com were very specific about this.  They are requiring 30% of the price the customer paid.

The example given was for Rhapsody.  If Rhapsody is selling music subscriptions for $10/mo (for ease of calculation) they have to offer the same or lower subscription price via the Apple store for which Apple will take 30% off the top or $3.  They will not be allowed to bypass this by directing the iPad/IPhone/Touch user to their web site for a direct purchase.  If Rhapsody were to offer this option anyway, their contract with Apple says they still have to pay Apple the $3.  

Needless to say, Rhapsody wasn't very happy as they (rightfully) said that 30% is more than their cut of their month subscription price (which I believe is $6.99 per month), so it would put them out of business if they were to continue to offer the app.

The cnet article went on to say that it appears that the same applies to any ebook (or other) purchase made through any app from Amazon, B&N, Netflix, etc.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20032119-1.html

I can certainly understand why Rhapsody, for one, says they will pursue all legal options, including a class action/anti-trust suit.  How successful will they be?  I don't know.  I just find this kind of megalomaniacal authoritarian heavy handedness repulsive (try saying that five times fast! ).

Needless to say, I don't think I'm EVER going to buy an iPhone.  I'll stick with my Android phone which is open to (almost) all.

Scott

[MrPine]

i sold my nook and bought an ipad so i hope the nook app stays.

i interpreted the new policy as subscription based goods only. like magazines and the like.

it didn't say all goods.

since books are not subscription based they should be ok.

that being said, even subscription based is a little off. as netflix is not tied to the 30% share.

I think we all need to wait and see what happens.

[swan480]

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MrPine wrote:

i sold my nook and bought an ipad so i hope the nook app stays.

i interpreted the new policy as subscription based goods only. like magazines and the like.

it didn't say all goods.

since books are not subscription based they should be ok.

that being said, even subscription based is a little off. as netflix is not tied to the 30% share.

I think we all need to wait and see what happens.

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Unfortunately, I don't think your logic is accurate, because Apple already blocked Sony's e-reader app because it didn't give them their cut.  Sony is even considering pulling all their music from iTunes in retaliation.  So clearly Apple's policy covers more than just subscriptions.

[Doug_Pardee Distinguished Bibliophile]

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swandy wrote:

where did you read this because I cannot find anything about it.

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It's pretty much scattered across the tech and e-book news sites. Unfortunately, forum rules forbid me to post actual links, so all I can do is cite the source and you'll have to use Google to get to the actual article.

Slash Lane, Apple Insider, "Legacy apps must comply with Apple's App Store subscription rules by June 30", 02/15/2011:

applications like Amazon Kindle, Hulu+, and Netflix now have less than four months to add an in-app purchasing option to their App Store software. And for those content providers, Apple will take a 30 percent cut of all sales made within the application.

Jim Dovey (who was Apple Platforms Team Lead at Kobo until his visa expired), Alan Quatermain, "Why Are Vendors Annoyed by this IAP Thing?", 02/18/2011:

Apple is asking for no less than every cent of eBook vendors' revenue earned through any iOS devices, and has outright banned any attempts to prevent their doing so. Competitors to iBooks cannot even mention an alternative payment method in their apps. ... [Apple's] in-app purchasing system only allows 3000 or 3500 distinct items to be in your catalog (depending who you talk to). Kobo and Amazon each have around 2.5 million titles. [B&N is currently showing about 2.2 million - Doug]

Nate Hoffelder, The Digital Reader, "Amazon, B&N, Kobo know their iOS apps will be pulled in June", 02/22/2011:

At this point everyone is resigned to the fact that Apple will pull the apps come June. Amazon, B&N, and Kobo are stuck. ... And yes, I have off the record confirmation that they’re going to let Apple pull the apps.

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swandy wrote:

all it does is require any publisher that allows "out of app purchasers" , like BN and Amazon, to offer in app purchases through the app store. It does not say that BN cannot sell books through their website, only that they cannot provide a direct link like the Nook apps do now.

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Yes, but there are two important points:

1. B&N is forbidden to say anywhere in the app that users can buy NOOKbooks through the Web site — they have to remove that direct link. Many users won't even know that they can buy through the Web site. Besides, why would they go to the trouble when they can buy in-app with a single click?
2. B&N would have to select 3000 NOOKbook titles to be for sale to iPad/iPhone/iPod users, because Apple forbids the app to be able to download anything that can't be bought in-app, and the in-app purchasing feature is limited to 3000 items in the catalogue.

[MrPine]

i have no inside sources or anything so all we have is speculation.

and i am going on two things

#1 - everything i have read say subscription based things only (the sony thing could be just whatever)

#2 - netflix was not affected by it. so there must be some way around it.

also, if there is a huge backlash, apple might be forced to stop it all together.

[Doug_Pardee Distinguished Bibliophile]

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MrPine wrote:

#1 - everything i have read say subscription based things only (the sony thing could be just whatever)

#2 - netflix was not affected by it. so there must be some way around it.

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This isn't about the subscription service. That's something else. This is about a change that Apple made in the app rules back in September that they started enforcing at the beginning of this year. Sony's e-book app for iPhone was rejected at the end of January because of that rule change, and Apple announced on February 15th that the e-book apps — pretty much all of which were approved before the September change — would be removed from the App Store on June 30th unless replaced with versions that meet the new requirements. That announcement was made at the same time that the subscription service was announced, so that's where the confusion comes in.

It's also not about NetFlix. It's about e-books.

This is from The Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011:

An Apple spokeswoman said it hasn't changed its developer terms or guidelines, but added that "we are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchases." [The Loop identifies the spokeswoman as Trudy Muller.]

[swan480]

This is interesting.  I wrote to Barnes & Noble to see if they could give me any more information on this, and this is what they said:

We do not have any official updates regarding Apple's move of removing
the NOOK app off of the App Store. There are no official press releases
that has been given out to the public about this as well.

Please be confident, however, that Barnes&Noble is doing our best to
promote good relations with our affiliates to provide optimum service
and maintain the level of satisfaction to you, our valued customers.

So if there aren't any official updates or press releases, I wonder where the articles Doug has been quoting have gotten their information?

[Doug_Pardee Distinguished Bibliophile]

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swan480 wrote:

So if there aren't any official updates or press releases, I wonder where the articles Doug has been quoting have gotten their information?

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At this point, there aren't any official updates or releases from anyone but Apple, as far as I know. However, that's pretty much enough, since Apple's announced requirements are untenable.

Nate Hoffelder at The Digital Reader says, "Amazon, B&N, and Kobo are stuck. ... And yes, I have off the record confirmation that they’re going to let Apple pull the apps."

B&N almost never issues official updates or press releases on anything negative, except where required by law. You will probably never find anything official from B&N, not even after the apps are pulled. The apps will simply go away, as will the web pages promoting them.

[swan480]

Where is Apple's official press release?  I'd like to see it.  My interpretation of the email from B&N customer service was that they are saying Apple hasn't released anything official.

[Doug_Pardee Distinguished Bibliophile]

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swan480 wrote:

Where is Apple's official press release?  I'd like to see it.  My interpretation of the email from B&N customer service was that they are saying Apple hasn't released anything official.

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Apple considers its app requirements to be confidential information. You need to be a registered Apple app developer in order to access them. Accordingly, Apple's official statements about the requirements were delivered privately to the app developers, apparently by email.

There are two main dates of interest. On February 1, Apple's Trudy Muller publicly announced the reason for the rejection of Sony's iPhone e-book app (reported by The New York Times):

We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase.

This reportedly was followed up by private emails to app developers that explained it was in the apps requirements:

11.2 Apps utilizing a system other than the In App Purchase API (IAP) to purchase content, functionality, or services in an app will be rejected

On February 15, Apple made the new ruling retroactive to existing apps. Again that's mostly covered in private emails to the app developers, but there's a hint in the official press release about the new subscription plan:

publishers may no longer provide links in their apps (to a web site, for example) which allow the customer to purchase content ... outside of the app.

The "..." in there was "or subscriptions", which neatly obscured the part about how this ruling now applied to all apps that utilized purchased content.

Computerworld reported:

Apple spokeswoman Trudy Muller confirmed that those rules apply not only to newspaper and magazine publishers, but also to content sellers like Amazon.com, which offers a Kindle app for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad.

The private email to the app developers reportedly said:

For existing apps already in the App Store, we are providing a grace period to bring your app into compliance with this guideline. To ensure your app remains on the App Store, please submit an update that uses the In App Purchase API for purchasing content, by June 30, 2011.