Reply
Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Samsung Note 8.0 available

[ Edited ]

And I've availed myself.  

 

The HD+ has been getting slower and slower (when running the stock OS) since I've owned it.  Cyanogen running in hybrid mode is faster, but imposes limitations, the severest being that wifi and bluetooth are an either/or choice for all intents and purposes.  

 

My initial take on the 8.0 - it's  very quick, as finnicky as the Nook devices, and costs close to twice what the 7 inch nooks do.  

 

- it can be rooted, and modified, but there's no good way to do a reset to stock.  You can reset to stock using a Samsung approved method that involves waiting for a 1 gig file to download and be pushed to the device, or a completely non-approved method involving a tool called Odin

 

- the internal memory is limited, and by default apps cannot be installed to SD nor moved to it.  Very disappointing to have a 400 dollar device that won't let you use the SD card in a useful way.

 

Things I like:  light, excellent screen (though not as good as the HD in some ways,) blazing fast, I'm not fighting with BN over how it will operate.

 

Instead, I'm fighting with Samsung over how it will operate, and quite frankly some of Samsung's decisions are worse - particularly around device recoverability, which is a PITA on these devices, much more than on the Nooks.

 

We'll see if I still want to keep in a few weeks.  

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎09-10-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

Roustabout, I thought of you when I saw, last week, announcements of 2 future Samsung phones, one a 5.8 inch screen phone, the other one was 6.3 or 4.8, I don't remember. Or was it robotcure that likes the big phones?

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

Thanks for sharing Roustabout.

 

It's interesting to see Samsung impose restrictions. It had said that the 8.0 is for a different audience (presumably a well-heeled one) and that's why the higher price.

 

The addition of restrictions. Are these present on other Samsung Tablets too?

 

Or is it that when device makers make devices for more affluent customers they want to add in stronger ecosystem checks to make sure future income comes to the device makers?

 

*******

 

Would you say it's worth the $400 or not?

 

Also, from your comparison it seems it's very similar to Nook HD, apart from price.

 

So, other than access to Play store, what advantages does it have over Nook HD/HD+?

 

Distinguished Correspondent
celandinehobbit
Posts: 105
Registered: ‎08-03-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

It's 5.8 and 6.3. Definitely. I'm a fan of big phones so I was salivating at the thought of the juiced up 6.3 device. What I read was that it was hitting Europe first beginning in May and slowly making its way over to the US afterward. Hopefully by December when I'm due for an upgrade.
flyingtoastr
Posts: 3,052
Topics: 55
Kudos: 2,980
Registered: ‎11-11-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

6.3 inches isn't a phone, it's a small tablet that can make voice calls.

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

That 6.3" phone I am thinking of getting - just to see people's faces when I take it out of my pocket and make a call.

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

The international version of the Note 8 will be able to make calls if you really need such..

 

This is a pretty good device.  What I'm paying for is one of the faster devices around - I've always been impressed with the Exynos chips, and this is a 4 core cpu and a 4 core gpu with 2 gig of RAM. 

 

The screen res is a little lower than the regular HD, on a larger display.  That's too bad;  I'd have preferred to see a higher resolution display. 

 

Other things that distinguish it from the Nook devices include GPS and a stylus, fairly good pen-to-text input conversion and a splitscreen view, so you can run two apps at once. 

 

I value small more than I do large, and for large I can keep using the Nook, so long as I only want to do a few things on it slowly. 

 

The 8 is highly portable at about half the weight of the HD+. 

 

Is it worth 400?  It's not a slam-dunk that it is.  Samsung tends to launch products at premium prices and then discount them.  I'm not sure what they charged for the galaxy tab 7.7, but I regretted not buying one after they'd cancelled production and I already had a Nook Tablet at that point.

 

Speaking of which, I just compared the Nook Tablet to this device - the total footprint is almost identical between the two. 

 

I have a case on order, and the implication is that this will be a bit more portable than the HD+ is. 

 

So, so far?  Very spendy, and does require work.

 

How is Samsung constraining users?  They're mostly trying (not hard) to block root and they're mounting storage in a very annoying way. 

 

It took time, but I was able to cobble together scripts that mount the SD card under /data at boot time and let me install apps there rather than on internal memory;  the device still boots with the card removed, and I have the recovery file downloaded if worst comes to worse.  I'd like to make some adjustments to the LCD density, and those aren't taking so far. 

 

At the price, I do wish this had one of the really great Samsung displays rather than a decent one.  End of the day, I can afford a fast little guy like this, and had gotten fed up with my HD+ choices - slow Nook UI, and getting slower, or fast but unstable CM10 UI and probably not much chance of getting CM10 installed entirely on internal memory.

 

I'm not sure what'll become of the HD+ at this point. 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

Thanks roustabout. That's very interesting.

 

1) Speed. It's interesting how speed in Android is more of a factor. I mean that you need something very fast to be able to keep Android going at optimum speed.

 

2) I wonder why Samsung can't find success in Tablets.

 

3) I think we're at the point where all the Andfroid Tablet are hurting each other. None of them is 'the best'. They are all 'good for X'. So we have sales split between Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, Samsung, Nook, etc.

 

4) Making Android open source is a big advantage and a big disadvantage for Google. All the companies modifying from stock and then messing up things. And things like Facebook home.

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

[ Edited ]

I think making the OS somewhat open source is a blessing for Google more than a curse. 

 

Google doesn't care too much about forking a la the Nook and Kindle devices - what they care about is winning the mobile advertising war, and a cheap OS with a per-device license fee for the Play store and probably an average of 5-10 app purchases is icing. 

 

I'm not sure what Samsung's long-term goal is;  they have to be making money off the phone companies they sell handsets to, though.  They'd like to have their own music and app stores, but those shops are not interesting at this point.  Fortunately, Samsung realizes that trying to keep folks away from the Play store would make their devices not sell too well. 

 

One thing I'm finding very handy is the infrared unit on the Note - my Bluetooth speaker shuts itself off after a period of inactivity, and after tinkering with the included software, I've found a setting that sends the signal to power the speaker back on.  It's intended more for a TV remote, but I don't really use the TV remote much, where this is very handy. 

 

As far as performance goes, I read a long time back that IOS is doing some very clever things to look faster than it actually is - it's calculating the pixels offscreen while it draws them onscreen, so scrolling is very, very fast on IOS devices - it's essentially reading from memory. 

 

That's the kind of clever approach to UI that Google's famous for not bothering with - Google was and is super fast in part because unless you're doing an image search, the results you get could almost be delivered over dialup as quickly - most operating systems can spray ASCII on on a monitor pretty fast, even router operating systems :smileyhappy: 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

This: I'm not sure what Samsung's long-term goal is

 

I think Samsung is interesting. Not sure what it's long term goal is but it's making a LOT of money from selling smartphones. It doesn't need to have a long term goal. It's making a LOT more money from Android than Google.

 

 

*****

What you say about Apple doing things to make it appear faster than it is. It's very clever.

 

And it does, in effect, make it faster.

 

Google also doesn't give Graphics and UI much respect in general. Treats it as an afterthought. Throughout Android you see this in decisions that are made.

 

For Google - Usability and design are things added to the cake of functionality.

 

For Apple - USability and Design are the Cake.

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

(Samsung) "It's making a LOT more money from Android than Google."

I'm not sure that's true.  Android brings in a lot of stuff for Google:

- detailed demographics

- detailed behavior patterns for study (anonymized, aggregate data for now;  likely individuated in 5 years with a little lobbying) 

- excellent mapping data

 

That's before I wonder how much money is coming in ads that are displayed on Android devices.  I don't know, but it's not trivial or the board would have cut them off long ago.  

 

And it's before how much money comes in from device manufacturers for access to Play.

 

I figure their profits on the hardware are tiny and immaterial to them - they're not trying to sell hardware to us, they're trying to set a higher bar for folks whose business it is to sell hardware to us.

 

As far as Apple caching drawings offscreen - yes, it makes the devices scroll faster.  Scrolling so fast I can't read isn't my sole use case for a device :smileyhappy:  But I must admit, I'd rather it not be stuttering in the course of drawing a webpage, either.

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

Samsung Electronics made profit of $4.5 billion in Quarter ending January 2013 and $7.7 billion profits in Quarter ending April.

 

Here: http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/05/samsung-profit-beats-estimates-even-before-galaxy-s4-ph...

 

 

Google made profits of $3.3 billion in last quarter: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/google-profit-climbs-online-ad-202124793.html

 

*****

 

What you wrote i.e.

Android brings in a lot of stuff for Google:

- detailed demographics

- detailed behavior patterns for study (anonymized, aggregate data for now;  likely individuated in 5 years with a little lobbying)

- excellent mapping data

 

*****

It might be excellent for the future when Google starts selling user data to companies for money.

 

However, right now, it doesn't make profits.

 

*****

 

Based on Search Traffic from Desktops & Laptops vs iPhone vs Android, we know

 

1) Profits from Search on Desktops & Laptops > iPhone > Android.

 

Plus there have been claims that $1 billion worth of ad sales are indirectly via Android.

 

If that is true, then $1 billion a year is dawrfed by Samsung's $7.7 billion a year via mostly Android Phones.

 

 

*****

 

Additionally, most companies (including HTC, FoxConn etc.) pay Microsoft for patent protection for using Android.

 

So my guess would be

 

 

Samsung and Microsoft BOTH make more from Android than Google.

 

However, there's little doubt that Samsung makes more from Android than Google.

 

*****

 

Ads that are displayed on Android devices don't make very much. If they made a sizeable amount i.e. more than $1 billion a year, Google would trumpet it.

 

Google hasn't had a money maker since their 1998 Search Engine.

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

I was very interested that profits from the mobile group are about 2/3 of Samsung's total profit. 

 

That  surprised me, given how large a company Samsung is and how many lines 

of business they're in.  

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 4,057
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

5ivedom wrote:

[...] Google made profits of $3.3 billion in last quarter: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/google-profit-climbs-online-ad-202124793.html

 

[...] Google hasn't had a money maker since their 1998 Search Engine.

 

 

If you can make profits of $3.3bn quaterly and not have a moneymaker, I'd like to know how! 

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 4,057
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Notes about Notes

I recently picked up a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and just noticed this thread. I don't frequent the HD/HD+ forum, but wanted to comment on a few things...

 

The apps2SD thing is a 'feature' of Android 4. My Motorola phone has the same inability to move apps. Having said that, with sufficient on-board storage, I haven't noticed. Apps2SD was a lot more important when storage was tigher. On my 8 GB Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, I ran out of space regularly and lamented not being able to move apps to external storage. On a 32 GB device, this hasn't been an issue. I've got way too many apps loaded on my Note and phone, and both have plenty of storage left.

 

Inability to mount as USB storage took some getting used to, but there are work-arounds (e.g. Calibre). I bought the adapter to allow sticking a USB drive on my tablet if I really need to move a lot of stuff, but I will probably never use it.

 

I haven't bothered rooting any of my latest devices. With full access to Android, I haven't felt the need, and I'm definitely a power user. I can still use Tasker to automate the things I want most. I'm keeping away from any alternate firmware on my Samsungs until I'm sure they'll make all the hardware available (if even then).

 

Roust didn't comment on the best feature of the Note family: The pressure-sensitive pen! I'm having a lot of fun with Sketchpad and other artsy programs. I haven't done sketching for 3 25 years, and it's fun dusting off the old skills... or lack thereof.

 

The handwriting recognition on the Note is impressive as well, though I'm quicker with the thumb keyboard than writing. I am torn between using writing-to-text, or programs like LectureNote to capture actual pages as handwriting. There are some impressive videos on YouTube showing LectureNote in use you might want to check out. I can scribble notes and make sketches during meetings, then export it all to PDF at the end of a meeting. I don't like not being able to cut & paste text though, so I'm torn.

 

Samsung seems to be more-or-less not worrying about fine distinctions between phone and tablet, making them of all sizes and capabilities. Some of the larger tablets with 4G connectivity can be used as phones. My 4.7 inch Moto phone acts pretty much the same as my 7 and 10 inch tablets running the same Android version. I'm sure it keeps Samsung's design challenges down, especially with the wide range of devices they have.  Why 5ivedom insists the Samsung tablets aren't successful, when the current line of products can be traced all the way back to the (pre-NOOK Color) Samsung Galaxy Tab, I'm not sure. I'd like to know if that 2/3 of Samsung "mobile" includes the wifi-only tablets. They're strategy of dominating the non-Apple market seems successful enough.

 

Usability-wise, Android is getting much better marks these days. Apple people converting over is hardly an unusual thing anymore. Samsung did break from the iPad look with the Note, and it's a good thing. Common sense things like forward-firing speakers are a good thing. I stuff all my gizmos in cases anyhow, so really all I see is the screen and a few buttons sticking out on the side.

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Samsung Note 8.0 available

Roustabout, it's a little crazy isn't it.

 

Samsung Electronics is mostly smartphones driven now.

 

Their TVs aren't making as much profit.

 

Samsung's larger chaebol/conglomerate has lots of profitable businesses.

 

*******

 

I think there's an incredible amount of profits in smartphones. Right now Apple and Samsung are taking 103% (other companies actually make net losses). With Samsung at something like 37%.

 

Apple is going cheaper to try and scoop up even more of the profitable customers.

Samsung is trying to go bigger (literally, with phablets).

 

No idea whether Smasung has a chance of overtaking Apple.

 

Of course, just 6 years back (in 2007) it was all RIMM and Nokia and Motorola. So who knows what company will dominate in 5-6 years from now.

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Notes about Notes

I did so mention the stylus!  

 

"Other things that distinguish it from the Nook devices include GPS and a stylus, fairly good pen-to-text

input conversion"

 

Granted I didn't say "pressure sensitive" in the sentence, but still :smileyhappy:  

 

I'm not sure that apps 2 SD failing is an Android 4 thing.  My phone runs ICS and can do it.

 

I installed some boot time scripts and a tool to enable init.d on the Note 8.0, and it now has most of the sdcard mounted under /data and that's where apps install.  My CM10 install on teh Nook HD+ has apps2sd functionality built in - for almost all apps, I have a "move to tablet" button.  

 

I was tempted by the 10.1 - at only 50 bucks more - but in the end decided not to get it.  The Transformer left such a bad taste in my mouth and part of that was that it was just so big.  

 

Once I'm toting around a 10+ inch screen, I'm reaching for my laptop, with the actual keyboard.

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 4,057
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Notes about Notes

roustabout wrote:

[...] Granted I didn't say "pressure sensitive" in the sentence, but still :smileyhappy:  

 

I think Samsung's pen efforts are very interesting. The little S-Pen that inserts into the tablet is OK, but it really gets interesting when you pop for one of the longer styluses with eraser function. This combination enables 3 distinct features:

 

  1. Pen pressure sensitivity. My understanding is that Samsung has basically incorporated a Wacom tablet that would normally cost nearly a thousdand bucks into these things. Sensitivity is nice for thinks like drawing and on-screen handwriting.
  2. Eraser-versus-pen awareness. This means one end of my stylus can be used to write or draw, and I can flip it over to erase. A very natural way to use the device.
  3. Palm rejection. On a larger screen, you can write at the top with the pen, and not suffer the problem of having your palm brushing the screen generating unintended input.

There's also a hover function that is good for previewing actions. If you haven't tried it yet, Roust, definitely download the demo of LectureNotes. It's very customizable, so you will probably need to tweak the settings to fit your style. It's pretty impressive considering how new this is. Samsung's moving towards doing some really interesting, if not innovative, thing, as are some of the developers.

 

This stuff is fairly expensive now, but I expect in a few years, it'll be cheap enough to incorporate in cheaper devices. A reader/notebook combo would be a winner for a lot of people. Taking "margin notes" in pen might be an optimal solution for a lot of folks, especially since highlighint is so much easier using the stylus compared to finger.

 

Agreed 10 inch is on the large end, but size-wise, it's about the size of the old leather paper portfolios I used to carry. It was shocking picking up my 7 inch after a week on the road to realize just how tiny they are. Like going back to a small TV after getting used to a big flatscreen! I enjoy reading on it quite a bit. The 8 inch is probably my optimal size.

 

I read an official page somewhere about Google's reasons for dropping the ability to transfer apps to SD starting with Jellybean. Of course, some smart folks quickly figured ways around it, but Google's reasoning made sense. I wish I had bookmarked the page. It helps that most apps are SD-aware nowadays, so you can store large data files on external storage.

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,677
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Notes about Notes

bob writes "I read an official page somewhere about Google's reasons for dropping the ability to transfer apps to SD starting with Jellybean. Of course, some smart folks quickly figured ways around it, but Google's reasoning made sense."

 

Maybe the reasoning did, maybe not;  I haven't read their view on this and I'm not sure they'd tell the public what the reasoning was behind the decision.  I think they might tell us something that sounds good post-hoc.  After seeing the attitude driving moving from USB mass storage support to MTP, I'm less interested in their views on why they work against me than in how challenging it is to repair the damage they're doing to usability. 

 

I think the clearest opinion I've seen on the buggy MTP they've delivered was along the lines of "why do you care?  Files are so 20th century.  Databases and objects are what the cool kids are into now." 

 

I'm just delighted that my phone vendor continues to support USB mass storage mode even after the ICS update to the phone I carry.  I think probably by accident (the phone was released as a Gingerbread device) but it still beats the pants off the new garbage. 

 

On the up side, Calibre Companion rules and the 8 inch device is a really good ereader. The Nook app treats sideloaded content better than Nook devices do in terms of equality, though it would sure be nice to have some shelves. 

 

If only I could located Dean gibson's insanely complicated PDF rendering of flight data, I could look at how long that takes to draw :smileyhappy:

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 4,057
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Notes about Notes

I found a reddit thread that has some of the logic behind the move to MTP. They suggest that this was mainly going to affect devices without removable storage, so I was incorrect in remembering Google abandoned UMS altogether with Android 4. I still haven't located the official google posting I read, but tose comments have the gist of it.

 

I wonder if Samsung is (apparently) dropping UMS, as the post states, "... because UMS is a block-level protocol that gives the host PC direct access to the physical blocks on the storage, so that Android cannot have it mounted at the same time." FAT is a notoriously fragile filesystem to start with, and the tendency of a lot of users to yank USB drives without proper unmounting definitely can cause problems.

 

Again, though, this hasn't been the problem I initially expected it to be. There are options to mount storage for network access, or use something like Calibre Assistant that mitigate a lot of the problems. Worst-case, I can pop the card out and stick it in a reader. Now that I've got lots of internal storage, the need to move apps has gone away, and most programs that use large files have no problem accessing removable storage.