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Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

Hambo, I think this is something more and more people are realizing. And something that will lead to Windows 8 (or a better Windows 9) doing very well.

 

All the Tablet solutions currently on the market have their own unique flaws.

 

iPad is expensive and locked down.

Android has no quality control.

Nook is locked down.

Kindle Fire is locked down.

 

The whole move to 'locked down' computing - in exchange for ease of use. And the hand in hand shift to planned obsolescence. It's very illogical.

 

Most devies can work perfectly fine for 5 to 6 years.

 

Why go with a hardware model that

 

a) Forces devices to be non-updatable.

b) Requires new purchases almost every year.

 

It's understandable to an extent with Apple since people often buy iDevices to signal status/disposable income. But a general move to planned obsolecence of devices is just crazy.

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bobstro
Posts: 3,770
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

Android has no quality control in the same sense that Microsoft has no quality control. How do you jump from there being flaws with Android to Win8 having none? Microsoft has a long, sad history of producing products with numerous problems.

 

Yes, there is crap in the Google Play Store. No, you are not required to install every piece of crap software out there. Discerning users can choose quality software in the same way that discerning users can purchase a device that meets their needs.

 

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

Bobstro, dont' take it personally.

 

Android has no quality control means just that - anyone can publish apps.

 

That means no quality control.

 

Stores like iPhone and Kindle and Nook Store do some minimum level of quality control.

 

 

*****

This is all in your mind:

 

How do you jump from there being flaws with Android to Win8 having none?

 

*****

 

There's a LOT of crap in all app stores. Google just has more because it doesn't apply any filters at all.

 

*****

 

I'm not attacking you or Android. I'm just stating that there's no quality control. What part of that is wrong or an attack.

 

They let anyone publish and leave it to the user to decide whether to grant permissions or not.

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RedHeartFL
Posts: 37
Registered: ‎10-19-2012

Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

I think because you were talking about Windows 8 taking off and people going to Windows.

 

Windows may be on the way down too.  People are learning some of the nasty tricks that Microsoft is famous for (going back to long before W95) and I keep hearing of people switching to Mac, Linux, or one of the other OS available.  The new 8, according to a couple of people I know (programmers/systems management/interfacing), is not what it's advertised to be and may be another Windows 2000 (or worse).  Plus there is this problem... all of the Windows products are for people who are "typical"... almost stereotypical.  If you have unusual needs like multiple sound cards, or special ports/boards/software for unusual uses, Windows quickly becomes not the OS of choice. 

 

Android is based (as I'm sure you know) on Linux, and while yeah, there is a lot of junk out there for Linux, there are also a whole lot of gems.  I'd like to see something like the sort of structure that Ubuntu has... control over apps but not so strict that nobody writes apps for it.

 

A lot of it is what fits your needs.  The NT fits my needs in some areas (why I bought it - because it would meet those needs and because it is based on Android - loosely based as I've come to realize), and with things like bluetooth, GPS (yep, the parts are in there), FM (also there), magnetic compass sensor (also seems to be present), and so on activated and usable, along with the voice to text (which is also present and support in the OS, but not activated), it would be for me the ideal device.  I really don't understand B&N's thinking... they've created possibly one of the best tablets on the market (I think so), but then they deliberately cripple half of the capability.   But then, I don't understand the thinking of a lot of business owners, who cut wages and outsource jobs and then wonder why their business isn't what it could be and why their employees hate their guts.

 

Finally, anyone with the ability should be able to write apps if they choose.  The barriers should be against spyware, malware, and the like... and beta software should be available (people do like to help with software) but marked as such.  What one person considers junk might be just what another needs.  For instance, kiddie software to me is so much junk, and a waste of space.  Someone with little kids would disagree with me.  I'm fine with that, as long as they don't try to eliminate the things I'd use for more space for their junk.  BTW - I've encountered plenty of Windows junkware (some literally junk... as in broken and non-functional, sold by a Microsoft distributer).

 

 

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bobstro
Posts: 3,770
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

[ Edited ]

5ivedom wrote:

[...] something that will lead to Windows 8 (or a better Windows 9) doing very well.

 

All the Tablet solutions currently on the market have their own unique flaws. [...]


If you meant that as something other than Win8 not being subject to those same flaws, it wasn't very clear.

 

I don't need a helmet or safety to use my devices without problems. There are apps out there with thousands of positive reviews and that have probably been subjected to more testing that B&N puts into their app testing. I reject the notion that a corporation's blessing (e.g. the developer pays them a cut) means anything in terms of application security or stability.

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patgolfneb
Posts: 1,758
Registered: ‎09-10-2011
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Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

Well goody for you bobostro. It has been one year since you took major offense at BN's attempt to lock the bootloader on the NT. Since then you take every oporotunity to advocate for modding, not an issue. 

Your constant belittlement of anyone who doesn't share your crusade and your evident belief in your superiority to those who don't share your outrage at the evil BN has grown tiresome. Don't you think you could tone it down a little?

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Irishelf
Posts: 242
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
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Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

Um, am I  the only person NOT happy with B&N's decision to have their products Windows based.  Windows is ridicuously flawed and has had many security issues.  I prefer the current OS, thank you.  IMO, Windows is a step down!

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Rignes
Posts: 223
Registered: ‎06-28-2010
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Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

I read that BN was keeping Android for their devices even though MS invested in them.  Based on what do you say they are moving to Windows 8?  If you have a link to a press release or some other document I'd like to see it. 

 

Thanks.

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bobstro
Posts: 3,770
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

[ Edited ]

patgolfneb wrote:

Well goody for you bobostro. It has been one year since you took major offense at BN's attempt to lock the bootloader on the NT.


If you'll recall (or bother to look), I was NOT one of those stomping away from B&N for their myriad of bad decisions made on changes from the NC to NT. What I did say is that it was a stupid and short-sighted decision likely to alienate users. This thread seems to confirm that.


Since then you take every oporotunity to advocate for modding, not an issue. 


I also take every opportunity to advocate for control of our devices -- those things we, the consumers, pay for.


Your constant belittlement of anyone who doesn't share your crusade and your evident belief in your superiority to those who don't share your outrage at the evil BN has grown tiresome. Don't you think you could tone it down a little?


If disagreement is belittlement, then I'm not the one with the problem. The "superiority" you seem to find is in my insistence that we should control our own devices, and that alternate software be allowed to flourish in the same way that today's now-dominant software was allowed to flourish back when hardware was open.

 

With trends such as UEFI and locked bootloaders removing the options available to users, it's pretty clear that the big corporations want to control what we can run. There have been moves made to make bypassing such controls illegal, which will mean that booting alternate or open source software will be illegal. Guess who's championing that move? (Hint: There's money involved.) I don't see this as any different than Monsanto going after farmers for (*gasp*) replanting seeds.

 

I can understand why locked bootloaders and UEFI exist, but I do think corporations should give us the means to bypass them on devices we've purchased if we so choose to accept the inherent risk. As a self-described CM user, patgolfneb, surely you're concerned about this as well? If the dedicated developer community hadn't worked so hard to bypass B&N's locked bootloader, or had failed, would you consider the locked bootloader a non-issue? Or is it palatable so long as you're OK?

 

if 5ivedom meant something other than "Microsoft's Win8 will be more inherently more secure", then I'm sure he/she will respond. This is a two-way conversation, after all. Neither your nor I control what is said. If I break the ToS, I'm sure B&N will intervene. In the meantime, I don't think walled gardens exist to ensure our safety any more than I think DRM exists to ensure I can use media legally.

 

If B&N has indeed abandoned the NT and won't be issuing any more fixes, I think this is an issue many NT owners will be concerned about. It's a shame they have to go through contortions to update devices they own.

WPP
Contributor
WPP
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎11-26-2011

Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

[ Edited ]

As I respect everyone's opinions in this discussion, I would have to agree with on certain levels of what everyone has posted.

 

Choosing an Android to Suit Your Needs

 

I own a Nook Tablet and a Nook HD+. I did heavy, heavy research before I choose to buy these tablets. However, I asked myself...what are my needs and what do I really want out of an Android tablet? For me, it is all about reading on an Android tablet. It has become more prevalent as I've own one. I used to be heavy, avid reader. What has prevented the big slow down is being in college and finishing up my graduate degree--a MA in Literature. I will testify that I read more on the Nooks than I have read for a very long time...and I am getting back to reading heavily again. I think that B&N purposes, as if you talked to even the Nook agents in their stores, it is designed for reading. When I started playing on the HD+, I wasn't excited about the video market or other factors...it was the reading experience on it. 

 

If I really want an Android device to do everything, I can get a Samsung tablet or a Nexus. I've played on a Nexus tablet and a Kindle Fire, and for my personal tastes, I don't like them. I know that they are fine for other customers, but I like the interface on the B&N and the text. When I read on Nook devices, I feel like I am reading more of a book than a computer screen. B&N has gotten that, to me, 100% right. 

 

This leads into:

 

The potential of the Nooks:

 

If Nooks did have the Android market on them that came with them when you brought them, they would be incredible devices...and if all of the bugs were worked out, sure, they would be phenomenal devices. What B&N has gotten down is the comfortability of reading on these devices...but there aren't many applications that are that great. HOWEVER, I believe, again, the Nooks are designed to read on primarily...applications and such are secondary. 

 

Now, I know that the HD+ is a fancier tablet. It is quite different from the other Nooks. As everyone who has written that has a functional Nook HD+, the screen elements and all is stunning, etc. However, I still use my Nook Tablet for a variety of things...especially emailing or writing/typing on it. When I take it out of my case, I am able to type on it comfortably like a regular Android phone device...

 

So, at the end, I really think that, as of now, since they haven't decided to get in on the Android market--pre-installing on the devices, this is how they roll. Sure, they could do better any many areas, but I think that some B&N customers see more positive advantages of the device meeting their needs compared to what it doesn't do. 

 Yet, I do understand others frustration of B&N not being the ultimate Android tablet and the potential there.

 

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bobstro
Posts: 3,770
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
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Re: Left behind by B&N tech department

[ Edited ]

WPP wrote:

[...] If Nooks did have the Android market on them that came with them when you brought them, they would be incredible devices...and if all of the bugs were worked out, sure, they would be phenomenal devices. What B&N has gotten down is the comfortability of reading on these devices.


I agree with you on all of this. For me, the frustration stems from the fact that none of these things are mutually exclusive. There are no technical reasons the B&N reading software can't run on any other Android tablet (it runs on Android now). There are no technical reasons B&N couldn't allow 3rd party apps to be loaded, even if after accepting terms limiting warranty and so forth.There are no technical reasons B&N can't fully integrate 3rd party epubs fully into the Library app. And of course, there's no reason B&N can't fix bugs more quickly, especially if they're more-or-less abandoning devices after a year.


What B&N has gotten down is the comfortability of reading on these devices...but there aren't many applications that are that great. HOWEVER, I believe, again, the Nooks are designed to read on primarily...applications and such are secondary. 


I agree B&N did a good job with the reading experience, as far as they went. I think it's a shame they limit some features to only B&N purchases (e.g. metadata display & sync). If B&N treated all my ebooks the same, I'd have stuck with them. I really like B&N's hardware.

 

I hope B&N realize they are only one app away from the same "experience" being offered by someone else on every Android device out there. Mantano isn't quite 100% up to B&N's level, but they are very very close (lacking only launcher integration). It certainly blows the B&N Android app away, IMO.

 

What has soured me on B&N for future purchases is their insistence on controlling so many aspects of how I use my device. They are still very nice devices, and if someone is happy with the B&N walled garden, I'd still recommend one. My reasons for recommending one for anybody else have fallen away, however. There are no NOOKs under the tree this year.

 

If B&N is going to discontinue support for devices at some point, I do hope they're classy enough to provide an option to unlock the bootloader of devices out of warranty.

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,186
Topics: 92
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Registered: ‎04-12-2011

"Left behind" has multiple meanings

[ Edited ]

bobstro wrote:

 

What has soured me on B&N for future purchases is their insistence on controlling so many aspects of how I use my device.

 


 

If would be different if that was the only problem with the devices, but it's not.  To say that B&N is slow to fix software problems, is to put an unrealisticly optimistic face on the problem.  Problems in B&N software abound, and even when widely reported, it is very unusual for them to get fixed.

 

FORTUNATELY, since I mostly don't use the Nooks for reading eBooks (their primary purpose), I don't personally experience most of the reported problems (I mostly use the supplied browser and PDF reader).  However, it has put me in a position where I don't trust B&N any longer to sell a device that is adequately supported with bug fixes.  I suspect that B&N has inadequate staff to fix most of the problems, and the reported issues with the HD/HD+ seem to support that.  I'd guess that the slightly delayed release of the HD/HD+ was not hardware availability, but the software being "ready" (obviously, a relative measure in this context).

 

By contrast, my non-B&N Android devices have been virtually bug-free as delivered, and have been updated by the manufacturer with significant updates (eg, Android 3.0 to 3.2 to 4.0).

 

Note: Late last week, B&N released a useful software update (v1.2.0) to the Nook Touch/Glow products.  That surprised me, so perhaps there is hope.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
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