Reply
Inspired Scribe
orb9220
Posts: 1,199
Registered: ‎06-16-2010

Re: Google Play on nook!

"but you are certainly violating the Google play license"

 

What? my Nook Color is listed as Nook Color on google play and states whether a App is compatible with my Nook Color. Bought Google Play gift cards and buy apps for my nook color.

 

How am I violating when Google knows exactly what my device is?

"All I Know is...Last Night the Tele-Tubbies came out of the wall and Held Me Down while they put Devices in my Head!"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orb9220/
Reader 4
AAKpfth
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-20-2011

Re: Google Play on nook!

The arguments on this thread resemble the "do women have souls?" debates of the dark ages by priests who had obviously never been near a woman. So it seems, a lot of posters have never been near Google Play on a rooted nook. To clear up some misconceptions:

 

  1. If you root your nook from the instructions that you find on the XDA forum, you will have a fully functional android tablet, with both the B&N as well as one or two additional launchers. Well, with the limitations of the Tablet hardware, of course.
  2. You will have full access to Google Play. 
  3. Contrary to the crap written on this thread about "masquerading", your nook will report itself to the Google Play store as "Barnes&Noble BNTV250". You can connect through your google account to play.google.com and purchase apps; when you fire up your nook tablet, the apps will be downloaded.
  4. Google Play apparently can tell whether your NT has the hardware to run store apps, and will not let you download incompatible apps (well, it tries to, at least lol).
  5. You will also have access to the Amazon app store. Your NT will not be compatible with Kindle Fire apps, but the others will work fine.
  6. Since you have full access to the B&N jail er interface (settings), you can always restore your NT to its factory original state, i.e., de-root and restore to virgin B&N OS.

As to whether you're voiding your B&N warranty....Well HECK YES! Either you want the Google Play / Amazon Appstore, and are willing to take the risk, or stop whining and stay with the stock tablet. Or buy one of those nice shiny new tablets running Jelly Bean, and let B&N wonder why their market share tanked.  How hard is that to understand?

 

/flame off

 

BTW. I'm a happy NT user; in my family, we have one nook 1st ed, two NCs and two NTs. Of those, only my NT is rooted. Everyone else is perfectly happy with the stock B&N interface. 

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,720
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Google Play on nook!

[ Edited ]

Cerunan wrote:
for what it's worth not only are you potentially voiding the warranty (I'm no lawyer but it seems to be pretty plain to me to be the case) but you are certainly violating the Google play license (which is why B&N wo't and can't simply allow access- see http://source.android.com/faqs.html#if-my-device-is-compatible-does-it-automatically-have-access-to-... )

That language seems as much directed at device and software branding by manufactuers  & publishers as at end users:

 

If my device is compatible, does it automatically have access to Google Play and branding?

Google Play is a service operated by Google. Achieving compatibility is a prerequisite for obtaining access to the Google Play software and branding. Device manufacturers should contact Google to obtain access to Google Play.

 

There's language elsewhere that seems to emphasize the point (emphasis mine):

 

What does "compatibility" mean?

We define an "Android compatible" device as one that can run any application written by third-party developers using the Android SDK and NDK. We use this as a filter to separate devices that can participate in the Android app ecosystem, and those that cannot. Devices that are properly compatible can seek approval to use the Android trademark. Devices that are not compatible are merely derived from the Android source code and may not use the Android trademark.

In other words, compatibility is a prerequisite to participate in the Android apps ecosystem. Anyone is welcome to use the Android source code, but if the device isn't compatible, it's not considered part of the Android ecosystem.

[...]

 

Is compatibility mandatory?

No. The Android Compatibility Program is optional. Since the Android source code is open, anyone can use it to build any kind of device. However, if a manufacturer wishes to use the Android name with their product, or wants access to Google Play, they must first demonstrate that the device is compatible.

 

I haven't seen anything from Google that specifically addresses users modifying devices to obtain Google Play access, but they certainly don't seem to be actively trying to prevent it. Mind you, I simply don't know either way.

 

I like what the Raspberry Pi developers did with their device regarding CPU overclocking. You can overclock all you want, but enabling the feature sets a flag on the device that voids your warranty. You can do what you want, they don't try to prevent you from doing it, but in so doing, you accept responsibility for voiding your warranty and they don't have to deal with "broken" returns resulting from botched attempts. I was impressed that at  $35 open source hardware design implemented this feature.

 

I would also be understanding of any software publisher that balks at supporting devices hacked to achieve market access. I think it'd be a bit much to expect compatability with my little NST running apps never meant for a non-color display without multitouch, for example.

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,172
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,244
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011

An unkind world: win in court, lose elsewhere

[ Edited ]

BruceMcF wrote:

DeanGibson wrote:

Who says that booting an alternate OS is doing "any of that"?  Just because a separate OS is being booted, doesn't mean that any "security feature" is being "violated", any more than installing MS-DOS on your PC to co-exist with pre-installed Microsoft Windows is getting around the real security features of the latter (which are a bit more important than the so-called "security features" in Nook software).


... On any PC I've ever had, specifying the device boot order is built into the BIOS, so, out of the box, its designed to boot off of alternative media, and there is nothing to circumvent.


[I reinserted the rest of my quote for context.]

 

You can also install MS-DOS (and other OSes) right onto the hard disk, and select at boot time which one to boot.  In this case you have to:

 

  1. (usually) repartition the hard disk to make room for the new OS;  and
  2. use a different boot loader than the one that comes with Windows (eg, IBM's Boot Manager, Linux's LiLo or Grub), or
  3. reconfigure the Windows boot loader to boot alternate OSes.  Microsoft does not make this easy;  every few years Microsoft changes the way you do this, but it's not hidden.  You can find out how to do it on msdn.microsoft.com.

For the past 25 years, I have not heard a wimper out of Microsoft about users doing any of this.

 

In fact, you can even install IBM-DOS, MS-DOS, and Win95/98 all to the same partition, boot each one using the multiple boot capabability of Win95/98, and none of them interfere with each other.  Then, you can install each one of the Windows NT variants (up to and including Win 7) on different partitions.  You can then add as many variants of Linux as you want.  Finally, you can add IBM's OS/2.  All on the same hard disk.  None of this involves the BIOS boot sequence, and none of it involves violating anyone's paranoid licensing terms.

 

I have MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, and Win98 installed as additional OSes on all my x86computers (5 Linux, 2 Win98, 2 WinXP, and 1 Win7).  They seem to take a lot less hard disk space than they used to.  :smileywink:  Only Win98 refuses to boot on the Win7 box;  it seems it thinks it doesn't have enough RAM (12GB??).  :smileyvery-happy:

 

Am I circumventing the normal boot process to do this?  You betcha!

 

Getting back to B&N and the Nook Tablet, I can see the headlines now:  "B&N files lawsuit against N2A-type-distributor and Nook Tablet users for selling and/or booting an alternate OS."  As to what would happen very shortly thereafter, one can only speculate, but consider the following from history:

 

Everyone remembers the very popular data compression tools from "System Enhancement Associates" ("SEA" -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARC_%28file_format%29 ), right???  In a very public disagreement/lawsuit over certain rights (which SEA won in court, but lost in public opinion), most users sided with Phil Katz, who subsequently developed the ZIP compression file format.  The result:  20 years later, the ZIP compression format is ubiquitous, very few have even heard of the ARC format, and SEA is history.  In some sense, this was the beginning of the open-source movement.

 

A more recent stink occurred over the GIF file format ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Interchange_Format ) and the reaction of users to what was perceived as retro-active patent enforcement, which led to the development of the PNG format.

 

The computer world has not been kind to what users perceive as attempts to restrict what they can do with their computers.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Wordsmith
BruceMcF
Posts: 793
Registered: ‎11-24-2011

Re: Google Play on nook!

[ Edited ]

DeanGibson:

 

As I've repeatedly said in various ways but will say again, I believe that it is a moot point because to the best of my knowledge if its a Nook device, the people at a B&N store will try to get it running, and if its still within its warranty date, they'll swap it if they can't fix it.

 

I haven't followed the XBox360 and Xoom markets closely, so I don't know what Microsoft's warranty policy is with respect to installing modifications on relatively closed hardware devices that they sell. But surely whether modifying the Microsoft bootloader on a PC invalidates your manufacturers warranty is up to the maker of the hardware, not up to Microsoft. Given the state of competition in PC hardware, I seriously doubt that many manufacturer warranties as written proscribe that ~ at least, not still-surviving PC hardware makers.

 


orb9220 wrote:

"but you are certainly violating the Google play license"

 

What? my Nook Color is listed as Nook Color on google play and states whether a App is compatible with my Nook Color. Bought Google Play gift cards and buy apps for my nook color.

 

How am I violating when Google knows exactly what my device is?


I think this may be the language that is causing confusion:


Devices that are Android compatible may seek to license the Google Play client software. This allows them to become part of the Android app ecosystem, by allowing users to download developers' apps from a catalog shared by all compatible devices. This option isn't available to devices that aren't compatible.


B&N has not licensed the Google Play client software. So B&N cannot distribute Google Play with their devices. (They could, of course, quite easily get licensed if they wished to be, they just don't want to be). It says that the option of licensing Google Play is not available to incompatible devices, but that is talking to the device manufacturer.

 

This is also why Google Play and GoogleApps are quite often a distinct zip file and a distinct app file from the various stock rooting or alternate system installing zip's. None of the developers of those stock rooting or alternate system installing zips have licensed GooglePlay or GoogleApps so if they are following all the rules, they will instead say, "download the google apps zip here", and their instructions will explain at which point you run the google apps zip.

 

On the other hand, if you got a working google apps .zip file from a source that IS allowed to distribute it to you, you run it on a "Android Compatible" device, link it to an account at the Google Play app store, and it works ... now, IANDL, but that seems like it ought to be fine.

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012

Re: Google Play on nook!


Cerunan wrote:
for what it's worth not only are you potentially voiding the warranty (I'm no lawyer but it seems to be pretty plain to me to be the case) but you are certainly violating the Google play license (which is why B&N wo't and can't simply allow access- see http://source.android.com/faqs.html#if-my-device-is-compatible-does-it-automatically-have-access-to-... )

Just curious.  If anybody had been booting to a different OS, then returned to the pre-installed OS, how would anybody know?

 

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,172
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,244
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011

B&N unintentionally encourages rooting

[ Edited ]

BruceMcF wrote:... to the best of my knowledge if its a Nook device, the people at a B&N store will try to get it running, and if its still within its warranty date, they'll swap it if they can't fix it.

 


When I went into a B&N to have them repartition my Nook Color in May of 2011, they asked me if it had been "erased and de-registered", and then just inserted their repartitioning SDcard and did it.

 

When I went in to do the same thing with my Nook Tablet a year later, they told me that they needed to watch me de-register it, before applying the repartitioning.  Possible reasons (in my mind):

 

  1. They had their fill of users rooting the device, semi-bricking it, and then using the B&N repartitioning to restore their device.  When I returned a Nook Tablet a few months earlier (within the 30-day limit), they also checked to see that it still booted the B&N software.
  2. They wanted to make sure the device was not stolen.

So, I think B&N is being a bit more careful about spending time solving problems that are not of their making.  There are clearly people (lots of them on the XDA forums) that root their devices without taking responsibility for the consequences of their decisions.

 

I'd guess that there would be a LOT less rooting, and the less support issues, if B&N allowed Google Play apps.  B&N has made their decision for reasons previously discussed, but I'll bet it has brought on support issues that are not present with the typical Android phone.

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Inspired Scribe
orb9220
Posts: 1,199
Registered: ‎06-16-2010

Re: B&N unintentionally encourages rooting

Yep don't blame B&N for their decisions of not allowing Google Play. And always surprised at the degree of expectations to do so. Or lack of understanding why it's not a good thing for B&N to do so from their perspective.

I went to CM7 for ereading options mostly as B&N refused to address or fix issues or add features to my ereading experience.

Always flabbergasted when I see people expecting support after botching a root or their device not working right in CM7 and expecting B&N to resolve it.

When I walk off the Gilded Path I know I may walk into a ditch or break my ankle in a rabbit hole. And that was my decision to do so.
.
"All I Know is...Last Night the Tele-Tubbies came out of the wall and Held Me Down while they put Devices in my Head!"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orb9220/
Wordsmith
BruceMcF
Posts: 793
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
0 Kudos

Re: B&N unintentionally encourages rooting


DeanGibson wrote:
I'd guess that there would be a LOT less rooting, and the less support issues, if B&N allowed Google Play apps.


Certainly, though the rest of the guesstimate that B&N has to make is what impact it will have on Nook book sales to bundle a competing ebookstore.

 

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,172
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,244
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011

Re: B&N unintentionally encourages rooting

[ Edited ]

BruceMcF wrote:

Certainly, though the rest of the guesstimate that B&N has to make is what impact it will have on Nook book sales to bundle a competing ebookstore.

 


I always thought that the essence of capitalism was building a better mousetrap, but lately it seems that companies think that the way to profits is exclusivity; eg:

 

  1. Develop a proprietary file format.
  2. Use a proprietary device.
  3. Use a subscription model rather than just selling a product.
  4. When all else fails, use patents and lawsuits to subdue your competitors.

 

Now, I agree that the above is simplistic, but I think most of the public is tired of this trend.  It rarely works over the long run (remember the old AT&T and its DoJ breakup?), and often fails in the short run as well.  Some of the public may be stupid, but they are not fools, and they resent the perception of being taken advantage of.

 

Far more people in the world have Android phones than have Nooks.  If a person wants a particular Android app, B&N's closed garden is not going to stop them.  It's just going to stop them from putting it on the Nook:  They'll just put it on their Android phone (pretty cheap these days).

 

Once it's on their Android phone but not on their Nook, they have an interesting choice.  One of those choices is to get rid of the Nook and get an Android Tablet, where they can still use the Nook Android app, but have other choices for apps as well.

 

In one sense, B&N should be glad that some rooters still run the B&N software;  these users presumably still have some interest in the B&N product line.  Those who boot from SDcards probably have much less interest in buying from B&N.

 

News flash to B&N:  The Nook Color was not successful because of the excellent software.  It was not popular because of the great products you could buy on/for it.  It was not even popular because it could be rooted.  Most of these were (in my opinion) factors.  However, the main reason it was popular (again, my opinion) is because it was an excellent quality device at a reasonable price, potentially useful for a wide variety of customer purposes.  In other words, the product excellence, not the exclusivity, sold the Nooks.  The "LendMe" and library features were concessions to improve the popularity of the Nook;  they certainly weren't moneymakers.

 

Now, if B&N didn't want customers like me (and some others here) to use the NC/NT for primarily non-B&N media purchases, then they should have priced them not at $250, but at (say) $350 (or whatever would give them a good margin for non-B&N media users), and then included (say) $100 of B&N media purchase credit.  I think that approach would have generated a lot more good will than what has happened.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Wordsmith
BruceMcF
Posts: 793
Registered: ‎11-24-2011

Re: B&N unintentionally encourages rooting


DeanGibson wrote:

I always thought that the essence of capitalism was building a better mousetrap, but lately it seems that companies think that the way to profits is exclusivity;


You are confusing sales pitch and essence there. The argument in favor of capitalism (whether the idealogue's pure capitalism or a more realistic system of regulated capitalism) is that it results in the building of a better mousetrap, but the essence of capitalism is putting money into commanding resources to produce items that generate a profit. The argument is that those in control will, in pursuit of their own self-interest, end up building a better mousetrap than other systems will.

 

But that is not to say that capitalism will result in the best possible imaginable mousetrap, just that on average the departures from the ideal will be more crippling in other alternative systems.

 

In ebook sales, Barnes and Noble, thanks to moving late but not as late as its main B&M rival which proceeded to go belly-up, finds itself in the number two position in a market dominated by two sellers, with the number one seller having over twice its market share. Its growth in revenues from ebook sales is the only thing giving reason to believe that it might not go belly-up in turn over the next five years. So now its getting its Nook video service up and running, with both streaming and downloads of video purchased, with content from sources including HBO, Sony, Starz, and Warner Bros, and Disney.

 

Those are the mousetraps it is selling. The Nook devices are devices for consuming the ebooks and videos.

Wordsmith
PJLLB
Posts: 281
Registered: ‎12-27-2011

Re: B&N unintentionally encourages rooting

[ Edited ]

DeanGibson wrote:

I always thought that the essence of capitalism was building a better mousetrap, but lately it seems that companies think that the way to profits is exclusivity; eg:

  1. Develop a proprietary file format.
  2. Use a proprietary device.
  3. Use a subscription model rather than just selling a product.
  4. When all else fails, use patents and lawsuits to subdue your competitors....

You have perfectly described Apple's approach, which the consumer has accepted fully thus encouraging other companies to pursue the same approach.

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,552
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
0 Kudos

Building a Better Mousetrap


PJLLB wrote:

DeanGibson wrote:

I always thought that the essence of capitalism was building a better mousetrap, but lately it seems that companies think that the way to profits is exclusivity; eg:

  1. Develop a proprietary file format.
  2. Use a proprietary device.
  3. Use a subscription model rather than just selling a product.
  4. When all else fails, use patents and lawsuits to subdue your competitors....

You have perfectly described Apple's approach, which the consumer has accepted fully thus encouraging other companies to pursue the same approach.


I keep wondering why so many people are cool with this.

 

Wordsmith
BruceMcF
Posts: 793
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Building a Better Mousetrap


keriflur wrote:

PJLLB wrote:

You have perfectly described Apple's approach, which the consumer has accepted fully thus encouraging other companies to pursue the same approach.


I keep wondering why so many people are cool with this.


One reason is because it reduces the information intensity, which makes it a point of horizontal differentiation, since many people are averse to information-intensive consumption.And that is an appealing market segment to lead in, because those people are willing to pay more for the curation if they are convinced the result makes it easier to cope.

 

And then to the extent that the device that is more of a shopping portal for a particular online store leads to the devices being sold at break-even or a loss, it leads to cheaper gear ... or, equally, more capability at the same price point. And for a set of consumers, they would prefer the more open device at the same price point, but given different price point / capability choices, they take the more device for less money choice, even though its less open.

New User
aerojordan
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-29-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Google Play on nook!

so..........um i know i might sound dumb but do you take the gplay store ipa and copy it to a sd or wat?

 

New User
aerojordan
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-29-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Google Play on nook!

ya thats wat im wonderin is it like jailbreakin the iphone where the warranty is voided or wat
New User
aerojordan
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-29-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Google Play on nook!

so an ordanary sd  card cant run cm7?

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Building a Better Mousetrap

Keriflur wrote: * I keep wondering why so many people are cool with this.

 

Lots of reasons

 

1) Some users don't want to put 'effort' or 'thinking' - they want the Easy button.

 

2) Ecosystems are safe - both in terms of security and also in terms of things won't go wrong and leave me confused and unable to use my device.

 

3) You can gradually cut away things that only 1% of users use and arrive at something that is very polished for 80% (or perhaps just 50% of users). Then the core experience for that 80% (or 50%) becomes amazing. Because things like sd card support issues and flash support issues etc. never happen.

 

4) Vertical integration and control of the ecosystem means you can make sure everything follows the same rules and styles and paradigms.

 

*****

There are, obviously, lots of bad things.

 

Enough that, in my opinion, without someone like Steve Jobs to sell it the closed ecosystem would not have worked.

 

However, there are also good things.

 

Also, at the core, users were so used to being utterly frustrated by software that even a walled garden was acceptable if it was frustration-free.

 

*****

I've spent the last few days looking at Kindle Fire forums (out of curiosity) and many of the same issues exist there too (WiFi, Flash, etc.).

 

Basically, users pay a lot in terms of wasted time and frustration if the experience isn't very polished.

 

Apple figured out that for a verypolished and easy experience users would pay more AND be willing to stay in the locked ecosystem. And it also did a lot of other things right (marketing, ease of use, focusing on the core features, touchscreens).

Wordsmith
BruceMcF
Posts: 793
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Google Play on nook!


aerojordan wrote:

so an ordanary sd  card cant run cm7?


You can't just copy some files to an ordinary SD card, because it has to be formatted to be a boot card, and have the linux filesystem on it, to run CM7. Its also reported to be best if its a Class 4 card.

New User
fat_amy
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎01-02-2013
0 Kudos

Re: Google Play on nook!

I totally want Google Play on my NOOK too!!!