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CobaltCricket
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Registered: ‎06-08-2013
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

I think a few things need cleared-up here:

 

This is a very feasible question most open-minded people may ask (these days.) Although it is a concept which has been passed-down to us from internet social media and entertainment. A majority (almost all) gaming, social, and entertainment media providers allow digital downloads of registered content. In effect, go buy the newest edition of Bug Zappers 3D, register it on BugGames.whtevr, and download any content covered by the license or registered proof of purchase (including the item you purchased itself.)

 

The digital download rights of Nook purchases are outstanding, as it limits the content to be downloaded to two sources. This should be, in turn, mirrored to all registered hardcopy purchases (since they are recorded in your account history and libraries.)

 

Another thing to look at is movies, in particular. Most producers allow the download of movies that have been purchased in DVD, Blu-Ray, or whatever form. Others only allow this IF the special edition of the movie have been purchased (ie. combo, extended, and director's cut editions.)

 

Music is also the same way, as prior to purchase investigation may be required. Pick-up a CD, look at the fine print, and verify if you are allowed to download content from the label producer's site upon purchase. Most allow this, but not all (so don't use this medium as a staple.) And yes, the newest release of the Beatles can be downloaded if you purchase the hardcopy (but not the original stuff.)

 

As of yet, most people are not on the same page with this topic. Books (hardcopy) may have a slight mark-up if they include the download license to your purchase. Perhaps this is something they really need to look into if they wish to get the ball rolling in the E-Reader market? At the moment, Nook is much better than Kindle (imo,) but it'll take one gimmick when Amazon starts to put the pressure on. This may be it, but don't get your hopes up just yet. :/

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keriflur
Posts: 6,169
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

The keyword here is "producer".  B&N is not the producer of the content, the publishers are.  The choice of whether or not to offer this is theirs, and right now they're making more money by charging for all the various formats separately, so there's not much incentive for them to bundle.  Also, they are facing a potentially problematic situation with Amazon right now, with Amazon having the ability to, in the publisher's  minds, devalue the product by selling at a loss.

 

The industry is in flux right now, and while it would be great for consumers if the publishers decided to offer ebook editions bundled with HCs or PBs, I suspect it will be a while before we see it happening.

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MacMcK1957
Posts: 2,092
Registered: ‎07-25-2011

Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


Ya_Ya wrote (05-20-2012 01:26 PM):

MacMcK1957 wrote:
Some people are never happy. Want to invite you-know-who to come back?


Don't you mean He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named?


 

Sometimes the timing of a zombie thread's revival seems particularly apt.

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roustabout
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Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

I'm pretty pleased to see this zombie back on its feet.  It's an example of a thread where folks with very big disagreements on the subject aren't accusing one another of being personally or rhetorically defective and actually seem to be exchanging information.

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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bobstro
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Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

[ Edited ]

roustabout wrote:

I'm pretty pleased to see this zombie back on its feet.  It's an example of a thread where folks with very big disagreements on the subject aren't accusing one another of being personally or rhetorically defective and actually seem to be exchanging information.

 

 

... yet

 

If anybody's into computer topics, you've probably seen O'Reilly's distinctive covers on the shelves at work. They have a very open and liberal policy. If you buy a hardcover book, register it and you can buy the ebook for < $5.00. Buy the ebook, and you can buy the hardcover at 40% off. You have lifetime access to ebooks you've purchased (a license for) and can download in a different format later. They don't put DRM on their books. In fact, after I loaded several new ebooks into my card and selected to upgrade a printer version, it applied the discount to all of them. Not sure if that's intentional, but I couldn't find a way to reverse it. They haven't changed it in over 6 months, so I assume it's intentional.

 

I have no idea if this approach is "working" but they don't seem to be concerned about it, and their selection of titles is expanding rapidly. The same approach probably wouldn't work for fiction, but I find it refreshing to see a publisher thinking about their customers as something other than a bunch of parasites.

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CobaltCricket
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

Fiction is an entertainment value, at most. Self-help, do-it yourself, and several instructional editorials are given in the exact manner went over in this post (if purchased through their distributor.) Speaking in a motorhead tone, of course you can have unlimited downloads of an instructional of how to rebuild carburetors. Yes, non-fiction is dated and can become obsolete, while fiction is timeless. Sunsoft will allow limitless downloads of registered manuals, but most are no longer available. :/

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CobaltCricket
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

Very good, thanks for reiterating that fact. Resellers and OEMs are not the producers (publishers, in this context.) Most retailers eat the cost when it comes to bundling, look at Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club, and let's not forget Hasting's (yes, they ate a little too much.) The king of bundling, Babbage's, could never overlook a good opportunity. Today, many competitor's use the techniques of this dinosaur to try to upsurp it's newly named legacy, Gamestop. To get to the point, if you want to make a sale you're going to have to eat a little of the cost. The fallback to these resellers, only the original purchaser has the ability to download registered content. Buy a book from Amazon for $14, or buy a book from B&N for $14 and get a limit of two downloads from two sources? Hardcovers are always a push, as most have the tenacity to wait for the paperback. Slap the 'ol download deal on a hardcover, they might actually sell. The other way around is a crazy concept though, buying a digital download and expecting the physical copy in return. That is an insane concept, but you are paying for virtually nothing in the first place. XD

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kamas716
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


CobaltCricket wrote:

 Buy a book from Amazon for $14, or buy a book from B&N for $14 and get a limit of two downloads from two sources? 


This is the second post you've made about a limit of two downloads from B&N.  I'm not understanding what you are referring to here.  I've downloaded all of my B&N eBooks more than twice.  Currently, I have them downloaded to an NST, NT, NookforPC on three different laptops and also NookStudy on one laptop.  I've archived and unarchived some eBooks more than twice.  From whence does this two download limit arise?

http://www.goodreads.com/kamas716
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MacMcK1957
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

I was wondering the same thing. I have the same books on an N1E, and NST, Nook for iPad, and Nook for PC on both a desktop and a laptop.
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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


kamas716 wrote:

CobaltCricket wrote:

 Buy a book from Amazon for $14, or buy a book from B&N for $14 and get a limit of two downloads from two sources? 


This is the second post you've made about a limit of two downloads from B&N.  I'm not understanding what you are referring to here.  I've downloaded all of my B&N eBooks more than twice.  Currently, I have them downloaded to an NST, NT, NookforPC on three different laptops and also NookStudy on one laptop.  I've archived and unarchived some eBooks more than twice.  From whence does this two download limit arise?


 

I believe they're suggesting a new model of selling, if you purchase a physical book you're given the ability to download the ebook version twice. 

 

As to why the limit is placed on the download since if you've downloaded it to your computer you can endlessly replicate it, I don't know. 

 

Keri posted awhile back about how DVD sales have changed, with most current DVDs offering a digital download as part of the purchase.  I think a model based around that premise is really the only one that has a hope of pleasing all those concerned with the issue.  Publishers, and presumably the author, get money from the sale, retailers get the sale, and consumers get the book and ebook.  As to how much extra cost would be tacked on I'm not sure on.  Perhaps 25% of the ebook cost. 

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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bklvr896
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


CobaltCricket wrote:

Very good, thanks for reiterating that fact. Resellers and OEMs are not the producers (publishers, in this context.) Most retailers eat the cost when it comes to bundling, look at Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club, and let's not forget Hasting's (yes, they ate a little too much.) The king of bundling, Babbage's, could never overlook a good opportunity. Today, many competitor's use the techniques of this dinosaur to try to upsurp it's newly named legacy, Gamestop. To get to the point, if you want to make a sale you're going to have to eat a little of the cost. The fallback to these resellers, only the original purchaser has the ability to download registered content. Buy a book from Amazon for $14, or buy a book from B&N for $14 and get a limit of two downloads from two sources? Hardcovers are always a push, as most have the tenacity to wait for the paperback. Slap the 'ol download deal on a hardcover, they might actually sell. The other way around is a crazy concept though, buying a digital download and expecting the physical copy in return. That is an insane concept, but you are paying for virtually nothing in the first place. XD


I was going to ask about your two download statement but others beat me to it.

 

As far as your statement eat a little cost, it would be more than a little cost, probably most of the profit on the HC as they would have to pay the publisher for the digital download, about 70% of the retail price.  BN certainly doesn't have that type of available capital right now.  If it was a viable idea, Amazon probably would have tried it by now in their quest to put others out of business since  they seem not to be adverse to losing money.

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keriflur
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.

[ Edited ]

CobaltCricket - 

 

if I'm understanding you correctly in your last post, you seem to be suggesting that B&N choose to bundle by eating some of the cost of the ebook, and including it for free with the sale of the hardcover.  This is not a realistic proposition in the current market.

 

Lets take a $25 hardcover as an example.  B&N pays 50% of the cover cost to buy the book, $12.50, and will likely price the hardcover at 40% off the cover price, $15, same as Amazon.  This gives them $2.50 to cover all the costs of the sale and make a tiny bit of profit.  The ebook will likely have a cover price of $14 (though I've been seeing a lot more in the 15+ range lately), and when the ebook is sold, B&N will have to pay the publisher 70%, $9.80.  If B&N bundles the ebook in with the hardcover, then they are selling at a loss of $7.30 plus the cost of the sale.  This is not a realistic proposition for Amazon, who likes loss leaders, let alone for B&N. Given the known terms of the recent settlements, it's questionable whether taking that kind of a loss would be a breach of contract and may result in a lawsuit.

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kamas716
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


Mercury_Glitch wrote:

 

I believe they're suggesting a new model of selling, if you purchase a physical book you're given the ability to download the ebook version twice. 

 

 


I can see how you could get that impression from their second reference, but in the first reference (The digital download rights of Nook purchases are outstanding, as it limits the content to be downloaded to two sources. This should be, in turn, mirrored to all registered hardcopy purchases (since they are recorded in your account history and libraries.) it seems more like they believe the two download limit is already in effect.  Maybe I'm reading it wrong or they just aren't very clear in their phrasing.

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


kamas716 wrote:

Mercury_Glitch wrote:

 

I believe they're suggesting a new model of selling, if you purchase a physical book you're given the ability to download the ebook version twice. 

 

 


I can see how you could get that impression from their second reference, but in the first reference (The digital download rights of Nook purchases are outstanding, as it limits the content to be downloaded to two sources. This should be, in turn, mirrored to all registered hardcopy purchases (since they are recorded in your account history and libraries.) it seems more like they believe the two download limit is already in effect.  Maybe I'm reading it wrong or they just aren't very clear in their phrasing.


I think you may be right.  This is the problem when people try and speak in legalese.  It's not a language that lends itself to clarity in the best of hands.  I find it's better by far to use simple terms that clearly state what you mean.

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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BruceMcF
Posts: 766
Registered: ‎11-24-2011

Re: Hard/soft cover books you already own.


RHWright wrote:

What I hate to see (though no one has brought it up here yet, thankfully) is when a moral/ethic equivalency is drawn in this way:

 

1) Copying a CD I own for my use is OK; scanning a book I own for my own use is OK

2) So, since having a "free" electronic copy of what I own is OK, it's also OK to save myself the effort and just download it for free wherever I might find it online, as long as it's for my own use.

 

To which I say, "no, it's not OK." I know it's a very fine distinction. And part of that distinction rests in behaviors that abet, or it least encourage, an environment in which activities that are not OK can thrive.


Yes, exactly. A long, long time ago (hundreds of years) people reacted to the problem of the creators of original works not being able to earn a living from the publication of those works by creating a new right, the "Copy Right", which says that the creator of an original work has the right to say who gets to copy a work for distribution ~ and if the creator does not approved your distribution, your distribution is illegal. So, yes, its the copying for distribution that requires permission.

 

As far as why there is not a free "ultraviolet" style ebook download bundled with a hard cover, its because in book publishing, rights are unbundled. First serial printing, hardcover edition, digital edition ... all of those are individual rights covered by individual contracts. For that ebook to be free, the author would have to agree to distributing that ebook with zero royalty payments to themselves, to those who can prove they already purchased a hardcover copy. That agreement is not common, so the freebie of getting an ebook in return for buying a hard cover copy sometime in the past is not common.