Media confused...They think Kindle Fire came first... [ Edited ]

[robotecture]

Something I have observed lately is alot of confused media reporting about the Nook Tablet... They are saying that the Kindle Fire came out first, and the Nook Tablet was a response to the Amazon threat to the Nook... It's quite the opposite in reality. Last year, the Nook Color was the first to market 7" android reader tablet, and quickly became the leading android tablet device in the market with millions sold... Kindle had previously said it was not interested in developing an android LCD tablet, and basically said it was set on focusing on the black and white e ink readers... But Barnes and Noble Nook color and nook Simple touch released last year took a big bite out of Kindles market dominance in e readers and they had been losing market share, so they scrambled to get a tablet device together... Using a manufacturer for the blackberry playbook and suspiciously similar device design to the playbook... The Nook Tablet of course was the *2nd generation Nook Device*, so Barnes and Noble has had a head start for some time on the hardware... The Kindle's content lead, is based primarily on the black and white ereader content and the amazon app store which previously has been selling android phone apps which work on the kindle fire as well... The only new Content category introduced with the kindle fire is the magazines and newsstand, and currently, the Nook second generation magazine reading experience, interface, and content library quality (magazine resolutions, interactive editions, etc.) are superior to the Kindke magazines which are actually either apps, or poor resolution hack scans rushed to the store to catch up with titles, but without the proper quality control to make the magazine read well in page view... So, contrary to the picture some media sources are painting, it is *kindle* which has been playing catchup to the nook, in terms of devices, for the last year and a half or so... It's not surprising to me that the nook is requiring some capital investment up front to ramp up their digital stores and devices, this is normal for a big growth company trying to grow market share, and these investments *will* manifest themselves in High returns in the future...

[patgolfneb]

Media types tend to be focused on high end and manufacturer news. Since BN is not seen as a technology firm the market didn't exist for them until firms meeting their experience began selling hybrid ereader tablets. Of course inexperienced or lazy journalist are a big part of the equation also.

[Marseilles]

The android content lead Amazon has is all the more amazing because B&N had more incentive to pursue that content earlier.  Amazon's pre-existing app store is very well stocked, second only to the Android Market in terms of Android App availability -- and superior to the market in terms of spam/malware prevention.  You didn't mention Prime video, something that not only costs less than netflix, it's also a freebie for a lot of people who were willing to pay for prime before video was added to the package for the shipping benefits.  Non-subscription video purchases and rentals are also part of the package.  Amazon takes care of its customers pretty well, and has earned a reputation for listening to customers.  In return, Amazon's customers take care of Amazon in PR battles.

Barnes and Noble has a reputation for not listening among a lot of long-time nook owners I heard from at mobileread and other locations.  The credit game you mention reminds me that a lot of people think ereading started with the original kindle, some here might think it started with the nook, and others might think it started with sony readers (let's not talk about people who think it started with the iPad).  Ereading began long before eink did.  Peanut Press was providing ebooks in the 90s.  Palm snatched them up around the turn of the millenium, and several years and company names later, B&N bought that company (then eReader.com) and its parent Fictionwise in order to quickly get their library and tech up to speed for the nook launch.  Since then, the customers of those pioneering but forgotten acuisitions have been ignored.  We can't read our books on the newest Nooks, we can't export them into the newest format, and we can't import our online libraries to a B&N account despite Agency pricing's destruction of those store's models.  We see Barnes and Noble's branding stamped all over our storefront, but we get no benefits from it.  If Barnes and Noble wants the kind of unfair credit Amazon gets, they should take better care of their customers -- all of them.  Then their customers will spend less time complaining and more time defending B&N and speading good stories of their brands.

Customer loyalty doesn't just happen.  It has to be earned.  Earning it could help B&N avoid joining their eReader.com acquitition on the forgotten pioneer list.

[Omnigeek]

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Marseilles wrote:

Ereading began long before eink did.  Peanut Press was providing ebooks in the 90s.  Palm snatched them up around the turn of the millenium, and several years and company names later, B&N bought that company (then eReader.com) and its parent Fictionwise in order to quickly get their library and tech up to speed for the nook launch.  Since then, the customers of those pioneering but forgotten acuisitions have been ignored.  We can't read our books on the newest Nooks, we can't export them into the newest format, and we can't import our online libraries to a B&N account despite Agency pricing's destruction of those store's models.

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I don't know why B&N chose to drop PDB compatibility from the current generation of Nooks but the fact of the matter is that you CAN convert your prior PDBs and PRCs to EPUB format -- I did so since I started my ereading around 2001 with my Handspring Visor (well, really started earlier than that but text files on my laptop were not as convenient or enjoyable).

You may not be able to import your online libraries into your B&N account but you can at least sideload them after converting to EPUB format which what I did and accounts for the majority of the ebooks on my Nooks.

[moose_tracker]

Wow!! Robotecture.. Who was it who was teasing you about you one run-on paragraph style?? I got through it but you do make it dizzing to the eyes..  The Enter key will give you a new line, it is just after the ", key..

These news guys are probably kindle supporters and don't want to give credit where credit is due!!!!  (just kidding, it is probably just sloppy reporting, by reporters not personally interested in what they are reporting about..)  I volunteer for the Boy Scouts, and it is laughable some news stories on them, how they butcher ranks and badges and trying to talk the lingo using a BSA terminology but in the wrong way.

[Omnigeek]

Never attribute to malice that which can attributed to laziness or sloppiness.  It's not so much that the media are Kindle supporters, it's just that they are generally lazy and sloppy in their research.  I'm more amazed when they get something right -- especially when it's the self-styled "elite" media like the Washington Post or New York Times.

[Marseilles]

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Omnigeek wrote:

I don't know why B&N chose to drop PDB compatibility from the current generation of Nooks but the fact of the matter is that you CAN convert your prior PDBs and PRCs to EPUB format 

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The fact of the matter is, according to the DMCA, it's illegal to bypass the included DRM, DRM that B&N now owns and uses.  Some argue it's legal to bypass under fair use, and it's a good argument, but it hasn't been tested in court.  And I'm betting B&N wouldn't appreciate it since the same tools that can free my old eReader files can also unDRM secure epubs from B&N.com.  What kind of company forces its customers to risk legal saction from ITSELF in order to read one's own books purchased from a B&N subsidiary on B&N's own reading products?  All the while, they could secure many of those customers for as B&N.com customers if they just offered the ability to import their library to a B&N account.

[roustabout]

Omnigeek writes "you CAN convert your prior PDBs and PRCs to EPUB format"

Yes indeed.  If they still have DRM tied to them, you may need to strip it out.  There are tools that can be used with Calibre for working with most flavors of DRM and can convert PDB and PRC to epub quite well. 

The puzzle to me around BN dropping support for the older formats is that the license key on PDBs is the same as the license key for BN epubs (billing name and card #) and by dropping the support, they're basically encouraging customers to learn to manage DRM on their own rather than coloring within the lines. 

I have a walkthrough for Calibre and a couple of the DRM formats posted at nookworks, and the tools collection includes plugins for formats other than the ones I detail there. 

http://nookworks.blogspot.com/2011/09/information-security-and-digital-rights.html

On the NT suggestions forum I seconded a post discussing this issue;  others might want to also.  The post is at http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/NOOK-Tablet-Ideas-Suggestions/NC-NT-Bring-back-native-PDB-sup...

[robotecture]

Moose Tracker: The reason why my posts are so blindingly long without paragraph returns is because they are typed on an iPhone which for some odd reason doesn't register the paragraph returns when the posts are made... I do hit the return and in the type field, they do in fact look like paragraphs, but for some reason when I hit submit, the returns don't register and it just looks like one bleeding giant paragraph! Not my fault! if anything, I should be laurel led for typing all these long posts with just one index finger on an iphone, no?

[poiuy]

Noted and laureled, all that on an iphone, I'm impressed.

[robotecture]

As for Amazons content lead, and customer service, I do use amazon for alot of things, I like the company, and have no complaints about customer service, but I simply am not interested in *everything I own* being from Amazon... And I feel more loyalty towards Barnes and Noble because I like in store service and value the bricks and mortar bookstore browsing experience and comfortable environment of its stores that I have known and visited since childhood... An online book catalogue can never replace a real book store and no matter how great the search capabilities of the site may be, you will never have the same possibility of browsing through books and discovering serendipitously some new thing or book that interests you... At Barnes and Noble, with the Nook, you can read any ebook for free in store with free wifi, for up to an hour each day and the next day it remembers where you left off in that book previously so you can continue from the last page read... I go there on my lunch hours with my Nook Tablet in the cafe... I think most readers still value bricks and mortar stores and were quite sad to see Borders and Walden books go under, due in large part to people using their stores but then one click shopping via amazon to save a few dollars by getting them online. I want my grand children to have real book stores in the future... As for amazon prime video, I have prime, and I also have Netflix and the free prime video content is severely limited. There's just very little selection, and you have anyway paid $80 for this... I have almost never made use of the prime streaming because of the lack of selection, and IMHO, the prime streaming content is overhyped. Netflix is far superior in selection and in the site interface and queue, variety, and Reviews... So really, to me, the video is not that big a deal if you have Netflix... Not to mention on the Nook Tablet, with Netflix, it is integrated into the device and can stream HD video content, something the Kindke Fire cannot. Beyond the Fires limited prime streaming selection that you have paid $80 a year for, any other Anazon streaming videos are a $3 or $4 rental, like pay per view... Why would I ever want to pay $3 to rent a video only to watch it on a 7" kindle fire screen with poor audio when I could get it from Netflix or rent it from Redbox for $1?... Not impressed really...

[robotecture]

Gracias poiuy!

[moose_tracker]

Only teasing you RT..  And that is impressive typing all that on a phone.. I have a cell phone (not iphone mind you) with little text keyboard and internet. I March when the plan is up I will be replacing it for whatever stock phone I can get without internet..  I have not used the internet or text messaging once or bought a single app.. Way too small.. So I use it simply to make calls.

The 7" I think is a nice size and about as small as I want to go for internet browsing & apps.. But, typing on that tiny touch keyboard even on a 7" more then a sentence or two.. No way..

[Nom-de-Nook]

My coach always said it doesn't matter who starts the game it is who is on the floor at the end.

[Nookfan77]

You are soooo right. The media, especially the tech media, likes Amazon better than B&N, it's as simple as that. They like Jeff Bezos because his company is pretty new and based in the internet. These tech types would rather struggle with an inferior device than buy one from an old fashioned 19th century company.

Reading reviews of the Nook Tablet vs Kindle Fire, you can just see these tech reviewer dudes performing gymnastics to keep the Kindle Fire even with the Tablet in their ratings system, when the Tablet is a totally superior device. Not only that, it has better software and navigation, which is supposed to be a strength of the tech dudes and people with a tech background.

I'm so impressed with my Tablet and the way the user interface is designed, I think B&N's people should design or at least be consulted on all computer software henceforth. It's way more intuitive,  helpful, humane, GRAPHIC and stylish than the Amazon devices. And that's yet another reason the technies prefer Amazon, they'd rather have less intuitive software as it generally supports their industry better, requiring more tech people help the public make sense of their own products.

The fact that you get things free from Amazon Prime with a kindle Fire just serves Amazon's membership drive for Prime, and is touted as some kind of overpowering advantage by the press, when it's not. It's all marketing driven, whereas the Nook Tablet is pretty nearly a work of art by comparison.

[compulsiveread…]

I recently added a KF to my NST, NE1 and NC devices. Hey..it was on sale cheap refurbished and I want to read my craft books not available here in color and have them mobile!!

I am soooo not impressed. The KF has less capabilities as an ereader, than my Kindle for PC app. I was told that was because the KF is a media device, not an ereader and I could not expect it to work the same as an ereader. ?!?!?!?!?! what the??!?!?!?!? Well, it doesn't do any more than my NC and IT functions darn fine as an dedicated ereader!!!

On the KF: Sorting does not work correctly, no descriptions, ratings or reviews available on the device after purchase that you could use IF shelving or "collections" as they call them were available to keep track of your purchases. Hate the carousel on the home page. Non reading and non-store functions are surprisingly buried, excepting those apps you keep in your favorites, for a device that is a "media device" rather than an ereader

Limited storage capabilities. Sound quality is just SLIGHTLY better than my NC. I do admit though that battery life is better than my NC. Amazon does try to limit access to non amazon android apps, so they are at least available as to B&N's more severe restrictions. With my n2a card or by rooting, that's a non issue for me with my NC and NST.

The KF is significantly slower than my daughter's NT but about the same as my NC. Once B&N catches up with craft ebook availability, I won't need to use the KF, but it serves it's purpose for now.

As a device though? KF is not on the same level as the NC, let alone the NT. I won't be selling off my NC any time soon unless I decide to upgrade to the NT, or whatever nifty new ereader B&N has in store for us.

It's definitely hype for the KF going on rather than any actual research on the subject. But then, the IPAD was touted as an ereader too and the press still compares it to dedicated ereaders. CLueless! LOL!

[bobstro]

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Nookfan77 wrote:

[...] And that's yet another reason the technies prefer Amazon, they'd rather have less intuitive software as it generally supports their industry better, requiring more tech people help the public make sense of their own products.

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You do realize that you're being quite insulting and making some pretty broad generalizations there, right? And like most gross generalizations, you're flat-out wrong. "Tech dudes" don't depend on confused masses of ebook users to sustain their business. There are plenty of problems under the hood to keep us busy for years.

In most comparisons I've seen, the NT and KF rank closely, with the NT winning on hardware. Where the KF pulls out ahead is in market options, which, if you're buying into the "more than a reader" aspect, is important to a lot of people.

Hey, good for you if you're enthusiastic about your device and are enjoying it. But please, don't go insulting whole swaths of the membership just because technical issues aren't your thing.

[TnTexas]

NookFan77: I'm so impressed with my Tablet and the way the user interface is designed, I think B&N's people should design or at least be consulted on all computer software henceforth. It's way more intuitive, helpful, humane, GRAPHIC and stylish than the Amazon devices.

I'll give you stylish. The Nook Tablet is definitely more stylish than the Fire in my opinion. But intuitive? My mom and my father-in-law both have Fires; and if I'm remembering correctly, the Fire has different tabs right across the top of the home screen - one for books, one for movies, one for apps, one for the web, one for music, and one for personal documents. How can you get more intuitive than that?

The fact that you get things free from Amazon Prime with a kindle Fire just serves Amazon's membership drive for Prime, and is touted as some kind of overpowering advantage by the press, when it's not. It's all marketing driven, whereas the Nook Tablet is pretty nearly a work of art by comparison.

If all you're looking for is a piece of artwork, you probably have a point. But if you're looking for something with a lot of natural content, you might not want to be so quick to discount the Fire. In addition to easy access to web browsing, Netflix, Hulu Plus, and ebooks that you can buy, (all of which comes with the Tablet), you also get access to the ability to easily borrow books (from libraries as well as from Amazon itself if you have a Prime account), tons of apps, digital music, Amazon's video selection (some of which aren't available at Netflix or Hulu Plus and some of which can be viewed at no extra cost if you have a Prime account), and the audiobooks at Audible.com. Taken altogether, that's nothing to sneeze at. 

[TnTexas]

bobstro: In most comparisons I've seen, the NT and KF rank closely, with the NT winning on hardware. Where the KF pulls out ahead is in market options, which, if you're buying into the "more than a reader" aspect, is important to a lot of people.

After playing around a bit with my father-in-law's Fire (haven't seen my mom's yet since she lives farther away than my inlaws do), this is the conclusion I've come to. The truth of the matter is, I was a lot more impressed with the device than I thought I was going to be. Spec-wise, it may not be quite as impressive as the Tablet, but it's far from being a piece of junk either. And as far as I know, it still allows you to enable the setting that lets you install apps from outside vendors - so it can still easily be made to be even more flexible than it is straight out of the box. (Unlike the Tablet, which we all know had that ability closed down as soon as B&N could close it.) 

[PJLLB]

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TnTexas wrote:

bobstro: In most comparisons I've seen, the NT and KF rank closely, with the NT winning on hardware. Where the KF pulls out ahead is in market options, which, if you're buying into the "more than a reader" aspect, is important to a lot of people.

After playing around a bit with my father-in-law's Fire (haven't seen my mom's yet since she lives farther away than my inlaws do), this is the conclusion I've come to. The truth of the matter is, I was a lot more impressed with the device than I thought I was going to be. Spec-wise, it may not be quite as impressive as the Tablet, but it's far from being a piece of junk either. And as far as I know, it still allows you to enable the setting that lets you install apps from outside vendors - so it can still easily be made to be even more flexible than it is straight out of the box. (Unlike the Tablet, which we all know had that ability closed down as soon as B&N could close it.) 

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I agree that the Kindle isn't a "piece of junk."  But the technical specs on the NT provide the edge on performance, screen, and internal (for a NT 16, same for NT 8) and external storage capabilities (micro SD card).  While the Kindle still "allows" sideloading of content from other app sources, the fact that the NT has the microSD capability totaly mitigates the "lockdown" by B&N.  The SD capability not only allows for much more content storage but also the choice to boot to an alternate OS (like CM7 as provided by Android For Nook cards and other sources, including the ability to make your own) opens up a much bigger "world" of use.  If I had all of the content and apps on a Kindle that I have loaded on my NT using an Android for Nook SD boot, I would have run out of space long ago.  Instead, I have the best of both worlds on the NT -- native Nook mode or Android mode at my discretion.  This, IMHO, makes the NT a clear winner.