Nook Unsuitable for children

[JuanitoL]

I just bought a Nook Simple Touch for my teenage daughter along with a Gift Certificate for Barnes and Noble.  What a mistake!  The nook requires a valid credit card number before it will even let you use a gift card.  My daughter is 13 years old and does not have a credit card.  I see a lot of hogwash and BS on this board about the credit card number being necessary for "digital rights management."  That's just using some technical-sounding words to justify a poor software design decision. Children have just as much need as adults for e-books and do not usually have credit cards.  Does Barnes and Noble really hate children?  Barnes and Noble, please fix the Nook software so that children can use the Nook effectively.

[moose_tracker]

I agree that a ccard should not be used to setup your DRM.. What happens when you change ccards due to theft or because you don't like the ccards buisness practices any more?

Are there not some sort of ccards that you can put set amounts on and use them like gift cards.. I am quite sure that there are, I believe my husband set my son up with one once he started driving and was running errands for him..

I don't see why that should not work..  When she runs out of money, then you decide when and how much to put back on the card again.

[RHWright]

It's not hogwash or BS, that's actually how it works.

And it's well known that this is how the B&N DRM works and this is a requirement of a B&N account.

Simple solution: put your debit or credit card as the default on your daughter's account.

B&N doesn't hate children, and it's a hyperbolic piece of rhetoric to say so.

Now, if your issue was about the content that is available and can't be easily filtered out, I might have more sympathy for your plight.

Or, if you "just bought it" in the last 14 days, return it. Easy peasy.

I just passed down my old Nook to my 16-year-old daughter and this was never an issue. If you don't trust her to be responsible managing her gift cards, password protect purchases. I haven't taken this step, but your situation may vary.

Till then, have a good one.

[Byteguy]

A prepaid card will work.

Also, you can put a purchase password on the Nook so they don't run up your card.

It's not hogwash or BS, B&N was required to put DRM on the files by the publishers.  They don't have a choice.  They went with the CC number as a key.  Once it's in, you can't see it again so you can type it in without the kid seeing and never worry about them going out and buying clothes.

You can easily change cards later.  The Nook remembers all the ones you've used.  If you HAVE to redownload for some reason with a different card, update the card on-line, and redownload the epub.  The Nook will ask you once for the new number.  You don't even have to know the old number.

Even when I give my kids gift cards for books or iTunes, I still have the purchase password turned on so I can see what they are buying.  I don't want them accidently getting something they shouldn't and I want to know what they're reading or listening to.

[keriflur]

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JuanitoL wrote:

I just bought a Nook Simple Touch for my teenage daughter along with a Gift Certificate for Barnes and Noble.  What a mistake!  The nook requires a valid credit card number before it will even let you use a gift card.  My daughter is 13 years old and does not have a credit card.  I see a lot of hogwash and BS on this board about the credit card number being necessary for "digital rights management."  That's just using some technical-sounding words to justify a poor software design decision. Children have just as much need as adults for e-books and do not usually have credit cards.  Does Barnes and Noble really hate children?  Barnes and Noble, please fix the Nook software so that children can use the Nook effectively.

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Okay, first off, digital rights management is a lot more than just technical-sounding words.  It's the way that B&N and the publilsher are using to attempt to stop book pirating.  It's not actually a software design decision at all, it's a sales and marketing decision.

I don't think B&N has anything against children.  I am not a parent, but I can tell you that if I was, knowing what I know about buying ebooks, I'd want to have a lot more control over my child's shopping experience than to hand them a nook and a gift card and wish them luck.  You can buy any ebook in the store on the nook.  That includes all the erotica.  That includes the Anarchist Cookbook (which, if you don't know, gives detailed instructions on how to make bombs).  So, if it were me, I'd want to shop WITH my child and I'd password protect the shop to keep my kid out of it. But that's just me.  You have the right to parent however you choose.

If you want to give your child carte blanche rights to buy whatever they want, then get them a pre-paid credit card.  It functions exactly the same as a gift card and can be refilled as often as you'd like.  IMO (again, still not a parent), its a good way to learn about credit cards and responsibility, and how easy it is to blow through all your funds when it's a button click to buy something.

Either way, you have OPTIONS.  You also have the option of returning the nook if you so choose.

[JuanitoL]

They should really put a sticker on the box that reads "not suitable for readers without credit cards."  If the information geniuses at B&N were really dumb enough to bake the CC number into a digital key then this product is going to need a lot of help unless B&N wants to turn into a tech support company rather than a bookseller.

[Beachgirl75]

I am sorry you are unhappy with your purchase. If you had done your research, you should have known about using a credit card to buy or download books from BN. There have been many good suggestions offered to you here, but I notice you did not acknowledge any of those. If you are still dissatisfied, return it. I use gift cards to buy books and check my balance so that my credit card doesn't get charged.

[JuanitoL]

I purchased a prepaid debit card so that my child could at least use the product, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.  What I am questioning here is B&N's software design decision and I think it was a poor one.  To require a credit card number from a customer that already has valid cash from a gift certificate in an account is just plain wrong. It is especially wrong if that customer does not have a credit card or could be reasonably expected to have one. This is a software feature that Barnes & Noble could, and for the sake of child readers, should change.

[Ya_Ya]

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JuanitoL wrote:

To require a credit card number from a customer that already has valid cash from a gift certificate in an account is just plain wrong. . . This is a software feature that Barnes & Noble could, and for the sake of child readers, should change.

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I absolutely, wholely, wholly, completely, totally, 100% disagree.  

Every content-seller has a DRM scheme.

Kindle's DRM scheme limits the number of devices a book can be displayed on, for most things it's 6, but some it's 2 or even 1.  The other epub sellers use Adobe Adept, which limits the book to only being displayed on devices registered to the same ADE account.

B&N uses Adobe's Social DRM which allows a purchased book to be displayed on an unlimited number of devices as long as one has access to the unlock information, ie; name and credit card number on file as default when the book is downloaded.  So, I can place my own books on any number of devices as long as I'm willing to type my credit card number into them.  (And, it can't be reverse-engineered so if I lose the device, someone finds it, they can't get my card number back out and buy things.)

It's the least-restrictive DRM scheme and one of the things I most like about B&N/NOOK.  I've shared a few books with my father-in-law and another few with my BFF, which I couldn't do if the books had come from any of the other vendors.

I really hope they don't change it.  

I understand why this DRM scheme doesn't work for you and perhaps NOOK isn't the device for you.  But, for those for whom it works, it works very, very well.  You may find another device works better for you, and that's the beauty of there being choices.  

[bklvr896]

Ya_Ya, I gave you a laurel for that post.  I'm with you, I like the B&N DRM scheme.  I can easily share books with mom and my friend.  They share books with me.  Couldn't do that with the Kindle unless we also shared an account.  Couldn't do that with other ePub readers unless we shared an ADE account (which actually, we do).

There's no issue if you change credit cards.  I've done it. Have had absolutely no problems with books downloaded using either card.  If there is an issue, archive the book and redownload it.  It's now encrypted with the new credit card number.

As long as there are people who will do illegal things, like pirate books, then the rest of us have to deal with restrictions like this.  I hate trying on clothes that have those big bulk plastic anti-theft tags on them, but I have to put up with it because people shoplift.  I was trying on shoes at a local sporting goods store, the shoes were connected together, so you had to put on both shoes and you could only take baby steps to try them out.  There's any number of things I don't like putting up with that are in place to prevent theft.  Unfortunately it's a fact of life.

[moose_tracker]

Well I am glad that they do have an easy way to change ccard numbers, I envisioned in a few years having to remember 3 or for cards and which books went on which card..

Still I am one that if possible does not like leaveing my ccard on file.. Don't mind the DRM so much as it having to be something as security risky as a ccard..  Maybe I will go out and get myself a prepaid ccard just for this purpose. Because now it is a permenent record at B&N, and it just makes me a little fidgity.

Was thinking Drivers Licenses, but I guess that wouldn't be too child friendly either... Oh well, if B&N is just utilizing a service, then what they use for a lockdown, is not really something they can choose I guess.

[gstone]

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moose_tracker wrote:

Well I am glad that they do have an easy way to change ccard numbers, I envisioned in a few years having to remember 3 or for cards and which books went on which card..

Still I am one that if possible does not like leaveing my ccard on file.. Don't mind the DRM so much as it having to be something as security risky as a ccard..  Maybe I will go out and get myself a prepaid ccard just for this purpose. Because now it is a permenent record at B&N, and it just makes me a little fidgity.

Was thinking Drivers Licenses, but I guess that wouldn't be too child friendly either... Oh well, if B&N is just utilizing a service, then what they use for a lockdown, is not really something they can choose I guess.

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Any time you purchase something using a credit card it is on file with that company.

You do not have to have a credit card to register your nook, only to purchase nookbooks. Neither of our nooks are on accounts with credit cards. We have another account we purchase books on then sideload to either nook.

[Ya_Ya]

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moose_tracker wrote:

Oh well, if B&N is just utilizing a service, then what they use for a lockdown, is not really something they can choose I guess.

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They did choose; they could choose an account specific DRM-scheme but instead chose Adobe's Social DRM.

Regardless, prepaid cards work as seen in this post.

[bklvr896]

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moose_tracker wrote:

Well I am glad that they do have an easy way to change ccard numbers, I envisioned in a few years having to remember 3 or for cards and which books went on which card..

Still I am one that if possible does not like leaveing my ccard on file.. Don't mind the DRM so much as it having to be something as security risky as a ccard..  Maybe I will go out and get myself a prepaid ccard just for this purpose. Because now it is a permenent record at B&N, and it just makes me a little fidgity.

Was thinking Drivers Licenses, but I guess that wouldn't be too child friendly either... Oh well, if B&N is just utilizing a service, then what they use for a lockdown, is not really something they can choose I guess.

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They are using the credit card number because it is not something you are likely to share with just anyone.  Some people may have no problem sharing their DL with others.

As for the credit card.  I have a Discover Card.  Discover lets you create secure online numbers that are tied to your account, have the same expiration date but are a different number.  Once you create the number, you add it to your B&N account.  Purchase one item and then that card becomes tied to B&N.  In other words, if someone hacked the system and got the card number, the only place they would be able to use it would be BN.

As far as security, as someone else said, once you purchase something, it's in their system.  If you purchase something in a store like say Target.  Your number is stored, because you can return something without a receipt and they can look it up if you used a credit card.  Same with Home Depot.

You give your card to waitstaff in restaurants and they walk away with it, they could quickly take a picture of both sides and have the information.

I had my credit card number used last year by someone attempting to buy an airline ticket.  I don't use that card very often and the last time I had used it before this event was on vacation, I was using it to purchase gasoline.

There are so many different ways these days that people can get your credit card number, but, I use the Discover card option.  I have a number of the secure online numbers for various online retailers I use regularly, I just keep track of the numbers and the associated vendor and store the information in my safe. 

You can also generate a number and only use it one time, it still gets tied that vendor and isn't good anywhere else.  The only place I've found I can't use one of these secure online numbers is Amazon, even for eBooks.  I can use it once, but can't the 2nd time.   Discover said it's because you aren't always purchaing from Amazon so it comes in as a different vendor and therefore won't work.

[gabourele]

JuanitoL, Many companies do this. I have an Ipad as well and if you don't have a valid credit card on file even if you have an itunes card you won't be able to access the itunes store to get anything because they require that card even if you have a gift card its all to protect you the consumer.

[moose_tracker]

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Ya_Ya wrote:

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moose_tracker wrote:

Oh well, if B&N is just utilizing a service, then what they use for a lockdown, is not really something they can choose I guess.

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They did choose; they could choose an account specific DRM-scheme but instead chose Adobe's Social DRM.

Regardless, prepaid cards work as seen in this post.

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They chose in that regard, but as you stated, the B&N uses Adobe's Social DRM is more flexible then all the other systems.. So that is nice..  Just to have that B&N uses Adobe's Social DRM  I would imagine Adobe is the one that chose ccard, rather the SS# or Drivers licenses, or contract to give up your first born if ever violating contract as their method of security..

I didn't know about the Discover card system.. That is of interest..

As for the security of the card, you are all correct.. I guess it is just blind faith, and hoping and praying.. My husband use to manage a store, and had one employee that started the stealing of customer ccards..  I don't think she got too far, I believe she was caught the first time she used a customers card, at least no other complaints came out of the woodwork after the first attempt..

I know it is silly to be nervous about recording a ccard # on one hand, while you pass it out like candy in the other, but as humans we have our quirks and phobias.. This is just one of mine..  

[bklvr896]

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moose_tracker wrote:

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Ya_Ya wrote:

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moose_tracker wrote:

Oh well, if B&N is just utilizing a service, then what they use for a lockdown, is not really something they can choose I guess.

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They did choose; they could choose an account specific DRM-scheme but instead chose Adobe's Social DRM.

Regardless, prepaid cards work as seen in this post.

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They chose in that regard, but as you stated, the B&N uses Adobe's Social DRM is more flexible then all the other systems.. So that is nice..  Just to have that B&N uses Adobe's Social DRM  I would imagine Adobe is the one that chose ccard, rather the SS# or Drivers licenses, or contract to give up your first born if ever violating contract as their method of security..

I didn't know about the Discover card system.. That is of interest..

As for the security of the card, you are all correct.. I guess it is just blind faith, and hoping and praying.. My husband use to manage a store, and had one employee that started the stealing of customer ccards..  I don't think she got too far, I believe she was caught the first time she used a customers card, at least no other complaints came out of the woodwork after the first attempt..

I know it is silly to be nervous about recording a ccard # on one hand, while you pass it out like candy in the other, but as humans we have our quirks and phobias.. This is just one of mine..  

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Discover Card System - I have many of these virtual cards set up for places I purchase regularly and also for recurring payments to companies like the cable company, newspaper, anyone who will let me pay the bill with a cc.

As far as other numbers, they can verify that a cc number is a valid card.  They can't verify that I put in a valid SSN or a valid DL number.  Those number could be made up and then people would have no issues sharing the information.

[Jadjuka]

I can see why you're complaing however; this type of thing isn't new at all. I've seen this type of thing where you need a default credit card before registering for even video games since 05.

I play WoW and when I joined it required a default credit card which was actually no big deal because I could easily go to Gamestop and get a gift card and play off of those without worrying it'll suck up money from the credit card.

This is the standard due to if you don't have gift card money or you run out, the money can then come from a credit card. Don't complain. It could be worse. It really could be worse. You might NEVER have the option to use gift cards at all. Something like that is compeltely optional by companies. They could demand payment from a credit card that works and if you can't pay it than that's too bad you don't get your book, or you can't play your game. 

If it's still a big problem than I suggest getting one of those credit card gift cards and use that as the default and from then on use a gift card. This is of course if you're afraid B&N will accidentally witdraw money from the default credit card and not a gift card. ^^; Hope that makes sense.

Don't get angry, don't blame B&N. Even Amazon (f you want to switch to Amazon thinking they won't do this...SURPRISE!), iTunes, Blizzard Entertainment, Microsoft's Xbox 360 members use this system of asking for a credit card and then giving you the option of using a gift card for payment. 

[keriflur]

There's only one number I can think of everyone in the US has, and that hardly anyone is willing to share easily, that could work for their DRM scheme.  That's the social security number.

Hmm... think anyone would be happier storing that number in their nook account?

[bklvr896]

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keriflur wrote:

There's only one number I can think of everyone in the US has, and that hardly anyone is willing to share easily, that could work for their DRM scheme.  That's the social security number.

Hmm... think anyone would be happier storing that number in their nook account?

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And, actually, they probably couldn't use that one, because they have no way to verify if the user put in a valid number.  I would think verification would have to be one of the requirements, otherwise everyone would just make up a number.

It comes down to tying it to a number you're not readily willing to share or tying each book to a specific device.  I prefer tying it to a number, since that allows me the option of sharing books with family without putting everyone on the same account.