Nook Unsuitable for children [ Edited ]

[moose_tracker]

Until a few years ago, that was plastered on everything, your pay checks, Your Health Card.. Everything used SSN#.. That has been a recent change to make it more secure, but you are still asked to cough it up way to many times.. Like filling out any forms or applications, out BSA applications use to not have the SS# and now does in order to do a background check on you.. And that applications flows through about 4 or 5 hands before it gets to the office for processing. And with BSA we have to fill out the form every time you sneeze!.. I think I fill it out 2 or 3 times a year over my 15 years in the program.. New position New application, what to be a MB councilor new app..   (most famous one)  "We lost that data on you!!!" New app..

It isn't really any safer then your cc#.. But your right, it may be AS secure as a ccard #..

There is a way they can verify the number, but it might be a service that charges..

[bklvr896]

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moose_tracker wrote:

Until a few years ago, that was plastered on everything, your pay checks, Your Health Card.. Everything used SSN#.. That has been a recent change to make it more secure, but you are still asked to cough it up way to many times.. Like filling out any forms or applications, out BSA applications use to not have the SS# and now does in order to do a background check on you.. And that applications flows through about 4 or 5 hands before it gets to the office for processing. And with BSA we have to fill out the form every time you sneeze!.. I think I fill it out 2 or 3 times a year over my 15 years in the program.. New position New application, what to be a MB councilor new app..   (most famous one)  "We lost that data on you!!!" New app..

It isn't really any safer then your cc#.. But your right, it may be AS secure as a ccard #..

There is a way they can verify the number, but it might be a service that charges..

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I'm sure they don't want to pay for a service like that and it would be much more complicated than simply pinging your default credit card.

[shadowcat80]

This thread needs to be retitled, this really has nothing to do with kids reading or not. I've seen in the past year the power of ereader. Growing up I hated reading and two yrs ago in other words prenook I read maybe one book that year, I read 22 books last year and this past Christmas four readers three nooks and a kindle fire were given to cousins of mine which range from five to sixteen so I think to say they are unsuitable for young readers is crazy.

[Nevermore1]

@OP - A lot of kids these days have some type of CC through their bank acct.  Most banks have savings accts for young children and will also allow parents to get their kids a DC/pre-paid CC that they can add funds to.  Check with your bank to see if they have this available.  I personally feel that giving my daughter (she's 14 and has had a "CC" for about 3 years now) the card is much more secure than giving her cash when she goes out with friends.  If she loses the cash there is no getting it back, I can put a hold on the card so it can't be used if it is lost.  I am able to log in and add funds to it and it shows on her acct within 2 minutes which is helpful if she should ever have an emergency while she is out and I can't get to her fast enough.  I am also able to put a hold on her acct so she can't use it and can select whether or not she is able to get cash from an ATM or not.  My daughter uses this card for her nook/BN acct.

[shadowcat80]

One of my cousins is sixteen and has an after school job. She's got a checking account but I think her father is cosigned on account but she's got her own debit card which can be used as the cc on account file.

[crunchylittlem…]

Just an aside...It is not actually true that anytime you purchase online from a company, they have your cc on file. I own a small internet business. I have set up credit purchases in such a fashion that my company never has access to the purchasers cc number. That information is passed immediately along to my merchant provider and never stored anywhere in my databases. In fact, if the customer then calls me and asks for an add on item, I have to ask for their cc number again. Being a small business, I think it protects everyone better.

[Aminojaku]

Good morning JuanitoL. You said: "If the information geniuses at B&N were really dumb enough to bake the CC number into a digital key then this product is going to need a lot of help unless B&N wants to turn into a tech support company rather than a bookseller"

Just a little history for you. B&N did not come up with this DRM format. It is one of the oldest eBook DRM formats around, and the most user friendly. It was invented by the people who started the online eBookstore called ereader.com and it's eReader format over a decade ago when they were known as Palm Digital Media. It was, and still is, the most consumer friendly DRM format available. It is one of the only DRM formats that is not tied to hardware or any sort of online account/activation. Once a file has been downloaded the file is fully transferable between people and devices. The reason to use a CC number (and only the number, not any expiration date or the CSV code from the back) as the unlock key is as a deterant to keep people from just giving the file to just anyone. B&N bought ereader.com in 2009 and gained the rights to the ereader book format and their DRM sceme. B&N continues to use it as their ePub DRM format for the same reasons, it's flexibility in allowing unlimited use of the file while still discuraging piracy. eReader.com successfully used this DRM format for over a decade, and B&N has been successfully using it since 2009.

[Omnigeek]

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JuanitoL wrote:

They should really put a sticker on the box that reads "not suitable for readers without credit cards."  If the information geniuses at B&N were really dumb enough to bake the CC number into a digital key then this product is going to need a lot of help unless B&N wants to turn into a tech support company rather than a bookseller.

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No, the sticker should read "not suitable for people who can't read".  Using the CC number as the basis for the DRM is actually a MUCH better solution for most people than the device ID number scheme Kindle uses because it gives you much more flexibility with the product you bought from B&N.  The Kindle construct limits your access to that ebook to 6, 2 or even just 1 device -- the B&N DRM construct lets me read my B&N ebook on any device I want to link to my B&N account.  As was said before, you can use prepaid cards to do this.

[Frogi]

Of course, these prepaid cards everyone talks about have a monthly fee, usually $3 - $10.  So, a monthly fee just to work around a poorly planned system.

A simple solution would be to allow us to set an allowance per device.

After my 10 year old daughter got a Nook ST, I realized I had to make my book purchases elsewhere and sideload them.

And I completely agree with the title of the topic.

[Byteguy]

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Frogi wrote:

Of course, these prepaid cards everyone talks about have a monthly fee, usually $3 - $10.  So, a monthly fee just to work around a poorly planned system.

A simple solution would be to allow us to set an allowance per device.

After my 10 year old daughter got a Nook ST, I realized I had to make my book purchases elsewhere and sideload them.

And I completely agree with the title of the topic.

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OR, you turn on the purchase password.  Then, she brings you the Nook (which she's doing anyway so you can sideload) and you type in the password.

[Frogi]

After having my info compromised on other sites (one of which was a larger retailer than BN with the same infallible security claims), I only use Paypal online.  Yes, it can be hacked also but that's only a single site to monitor.

And she can access other booksites (which do not have my banking information) via ADE from her computer at her mom's.  So, she doesn't really need to bring her reader to me for sideloading

[Kermudj]

When you say "technical-sounding words to justify a poor software design decision", I disagree.

It is "technical-sounding words to justify a poor business model".  Or what should be a poor business model.

So, the publishers demand rules that make their products almost useless. Barnes and Noble

have "no choice" but go along.  Customers have "no choice" but go along with them... And from some

posts here, apparently some customers enjoy being taken advantage of.  Somehow, I expect

the system will collapse, but I expect it will take awhile.  All the longer because of the lame

rationalizations.

In the meantime, a Nook is actually a great device for out-of-copyright stuff.  See gutenberg.org.

Unfortunately, that material may not be that interesting for a 13 year old (tho' it could be).

So, you may be right: Unsuitable for children.

[Ya_Ya]

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Frogi wrote:

Of course, these prepaid cards everyone talks about have a monthly fee, usually $3 - $10.  So, a monthly fee just to work around a poorly planned system.

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You are incorrect.  Most have an initial fee of around $3 - $10.  Very few have monthly fees.

[Ya_Ya]

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Kermudj wrote:

So, the publishers demand rules that make their products almost useless. Barnes and Noble

have "no choice" but go along.  Customers have "no choice" but go along with them... And from some posts here, apparently some customers enjoy being taken advantage of.  

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I think you are being intentionally thick.  

Most of us would like to see all ebooks distributed DRM-free.  Very few of us "like" any DRM, even B&N's.  Many of us prefer it to the other various DRM schemes because it (while it's still troubling) is the least-restrictive.  [Perhaps I should have been more precise in my language; I don't "like" it; I prefer it to the other options.]

If you honestly believe that device or account specific DRM is a better solution (not the best solution, mind you) Amazon and Sony are ready to sell you their device.  

[bklvr896]

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Frogi wrote:

After having my info compromised on other sites (one of which was a larger retailer than BN with the same infallible security claims), I only use Paypal online.  Yes, it can be hacked also but that's only a single site to monitor.

And she can access other booksites (which do not have my banking information) via ADE from her computer at her mom's.  So, she doesn't really need to bring her reader to me for sideloading

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I understand your concerns about you cc info, but when you use a card in a store, it must go it goes it a database somewhere, which is most likely hackable.  This is why I can go into Target or Home Depot and return something without a receipt and they can look it if I have my cc with me.

You can get a Discover Card which offers single merchant virtual numbers.  You set up a virtual card number that is tied to you regular account for billings, but it can only be used at one merchant.  So I have one for B&N, if they are hacked, they're going to get a number that only lets them use it at B&N.

I've been informed 3 times by companies that my information "may" have been comprised.  One was a professional organization who had a hard drive with personal information on it lost or stolen.  Another was my company cc, which has never been used on the internet, the back up tape was lost in transit.  The 3rd time, it was my debit card.  I don't know what happened, they just notified me it was being replaced and I never use my debit card online, in fact I rarely use it at all.

I had a cc number stolen, that card is not used online.  The best I can figure is that I used it while on vacation to buy gas along the highways, so they must have got it that way.

The point is, you're at risk whether or not you put your cc online or not.  I take precautions, I use the Discover Card single merchant numbers for those companies I do business with regularly.  But the only way to be safe is to not use a credit card and not give anyone any personal information.

[Byteguy]

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Frogi wrote:

After having my info compromised on other sites (one of which was a larger retailer than BN with the same infallible security claims), I only use Paypal online.  Yes, it can be hacked also but that's only a single site to monitor.

....

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I love this.  The answer to being worried about a credit card being breached (which has a LONG list of protections including having to immediately stop charging you interest, restore your credit line, and assume the charge is invalid until the merchant proves otherwise) is to connect a syphon-hose to your BANK ACCOUNT (which does not have the same protections and you have to convince PayPal or the bank to agree to give you your own money back).

I have friends who became temporaily pennyless overnight when their checking accounts got sucked dry.  Despite the assurances that "things would be taken care of" they spent days with absolutely NO access to cash or debit-card purchasing and had to file police reports and sign forms before the banks would even begin the process to decide to give them their own money back.

When one of my credit cards had a strange charge, I went on-line, clicked "dispute transaction" and was DONE.

And, your daughter can still use ADE at her mom's after you turn on the B&N purchase password.  It uses a different system (which can be a pain because it's based on total activations per account so you can "run out").

[keriflur]

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Byteguy wrote:

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Frogi wrote:

After having my info compromised on other sites (one of which was a larger retailer than BN with the same infallible security claims), I only use Paypal online.  Yes, it can be hacked also but that's only a single site to monitor.

....

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I love this.  The answer to being worried about a credit card being breached (which has a LONG list of protections including having to immediately stop charging you interest, restore your credit line, and assume the charge is invalid until the merchant proves otherwise) is to connect a syphon-hose to your BANK ACCOUNT (which does not have the same protections and you have to convince PayPal or the bank to agree to give you your own money back).

I have friends who became temporaily pennyless overnight when their checking accounts got sucked dry.  Despite the assurances that "things would be taken care of" they spent days with absolutely NO access to cash or debit-card purchasing and had to file police reports and sign forms before the banks would even begin the process to decide to give them their own money back.

When one of my credit cards had a strange charge, I went on-line, clicked "dispute transaction" and was DONE.

And, your daughter can still use ADE at her mom's after you turn on the B&N purchase password.  It uses a different system (which can be a pain because it's based on total activations per account so you can "run out").

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FYI, two things:

1)  You can use paypal without connecting your bank account by connecting only a credit card to the paypal account.  Paypal then theoretically provides an additional level of protection, and you still get all the benefits and protections of using your credit card over your debit card or bank account.

2)  Paypal has had some security issues in the past, and is an obvious hacker target.  If you're looking to protect yourself, a credit card with virtual purchase numbers is a much better way to go.

[Jadjuka]

As long as you're using something that requires a database, it can and WILL be hacked. There is no such thing as maximum security. If something is secure, it's only because someone hasn't had enough time to hack it yet... 

[kcladyz]

You can buy prepaid visa cards at any drugstore... just a thought... 

[bklvr896]

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kcladyz wrote:

You can buy prepaid visa cards at any drugstore... just a thought... 

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The prepaid cards from the drugstores generally won't work, you need to have a pre-paid card that can be tied to an address.  I know Amex has one.