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Distinguished Correspondent
poiuy
Posts: 104
Registered: ‎10-09-2011

Re: the actual review of the NT from Lilliputing raises disabling sideloads as a risk

________________________________________________

In that case, you should be able to find them using the search function on a stock, non-rooted device. I no longer have one of those, so can't test this myself. Seeing as how apps can be located with the search function -- this is mentioned in the manual, I believe -- this is a 'standard' feature.

________________________________________________

 

Confirmed, running stock 1.4.0, never rooted.  Both calendar and calculator show up in a search. 

Frequent Contributor
krier32
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎12-22-2011

Re: the actual review of the NT from Lilliputing raises disabling sideloads as a risk


roustabout wrote:

In addition to the widely-read how-to at lilliputing, they did a full review of the Nook Tablet, posted at

 

http://liliputing.com/2011/11/barnes-noble-nook-tablet-review.html

 

That's an interesting review, because the section on sideloading is called "Hacking the NOOK Tablet."

 

And the review states quite clearly "There’s no guarantee that Barnes & Noble won’t just disable support for third party apps from “unknown sources” with a future software update." 


This same review also states:

 

The good news is that you can do an awful lot with the NOOK Tablet even without rooting it. While custom ROMs might not be available anytime soon, you can install apps that don’t come from the B&N Shop — and that even includes the Amazon Appstore.

 

So you actually don't have to "Hack" the tablet.

Inspired Correspondent
Nom-de-Nook
Posts: 956
Registered: ‎08-06-2010

Re: the actual review of the NT from Lilliputing raises disabling sideloads as a risk

Roustabout,

 

That is a far cry from saying that sideloading is a BUG that will be fixed in the future.

 

Also, the review implies support for sideloading from BN (you can't withdraw support unless you first have it).  BN may not have said it, but it is reasonable for someone reading the review to expect it.  BN can withdraw support for anything at any time.

Frequent Contributor
krier32
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎12-22-2011

Re: On the verge of returning my NT


roustabout wrote:

So can you link to a review?  One person in this thread mentioned multiple reviews that talked about sideloading as a feature, but I have yet to see evidence of one review that mentions it. 


Here are two reviews that mention sideloading:

 

1. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2396555,00.asp

 

This review mentions it and does state that B&N is opposed to you running non-B&N apps (although there is no reference to where this official position can be found), in addition, it states that B&N could shut it down with a future update.

 

2. http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/17/review-the-nook-tablet-an-android-slate-in-ereaders-clothing/

 

This review specifically mentions it under PROS of the device.  Towards the bottom of the article there is a link to sideloading without hacking.

Distinguished Correspondent
JMTR
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎12-20-2011

Re: the actual review of the NT from Lilliputing raises disabling sideloads as a risk

[ Edited ]

poiuy wrote: "Confirmed, running stock 1.4.0, never rooted.  Both calendar and calculator show up in a search."

 

___________

 

Thank you. However, even though both of these free apps (not limited-trial software, not pirated copies of Microsoft Office, not 24-hour movie rentals) were preinstalled and accessible to Nook Tablet buyers, I'm sure there must be some other self-evident reason that it was perfectly acceptable for B&N to unilaterally erase them later. :smileyfrustrated:

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,653
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: the actual review of the NT from Lilliputing raises disabling sideloads as a risk

The review clearly raises the possibility that BN will disable sideloading;  the posters who are saying the reveiws didn't say that, and pointing to lilliputing in particular, are invited again to post a link to a review of the NT that mentioned sideloadling without mentioning that it was not something you should bank on.

 

I'm not saying there is no such review;  I'm saying that I was aware that this was a hole as soon as folks found it, and that people on these forums were clear that BN could try to close it.  

 

And sorry, but the Lilliputing review is one of the ones that does mention sideloading may be disabled by BN.  Many have argued that there were no reviews that addressed this point;  here is one that does, and is coming from the same source as one of the most widely-cited "how to enable sideloading" walkthroughs.  

 

As far as sideloading and hacking, this is how the lilliputing review addresses the matter:

 

"you can get the tablet to run apps that aren’t available from the B&N Shop.

It just takes a little more work, and the user experience for these apps might not be as good. For more details, scroll down to the section below on hacking the NOOK Tablet."

 

The review discusses the feature in the hacking section and the quote kfier includes is from the hacking section of the review. 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Wordsmith
moose_tracker
Posts: 386
Registered: ‎12-10-2011

Re: the actual review of the NT from Lilliputing raises disabling sideloads as a risk

that's interesting.. Roustabout.. that is probably the one that someone (I forgot who, but I think it was TNTexas)  that they saw a POSSIBILITY, but not a definite.. To my knowledge that is the only one out there, as FlyingToastr nor the other poster (don't remember who) cited things they saw, but could not find a link to..

 

Let's make something clear here, SOME may be argueing that because they read it in a review they are entitled to it, SOME are not.. I am in the group that is simply stateing that you can do research on a device, get an definate impression of the device through the research, buy the device.. And if their is a return policy you have every right to return it, if the research on it turn out incorrect..

 

 

But, my RESEARCH to buy a tablet was not narrowed to only REVIEWS.. The Liliputing example was part of my research, and would have definately swayed me as to the ability being their (and not illegal, or a bug) same as any review would have.  So was time I spent on the forum at xda and got great information about what rooting was & what sideloading was, and that rooting killed your warrenty, but sideloading didn't (to me this meant allowed).. I am sure I watched clips on sideloading in the xda forums also.

 

Now for those who want to argue that B&N must follow whatever a reviewer posts, then I do agree, none of this is binding B&N to do anything, but, all I am argueing is that someone can do serious research and walk away feeling that sideloading is not a bug.. And those people are within their rights to return the device, if the update 1.4.1 killing sideloading is a deal breaker, without having people thumb their noses at them that they should of done their research because it was all over the place that it was a bug that was going to be fixed, are not being fair..  There is alot more about sideloading the apps with no mention of it being a bug (Possible or definate) stated..

 

For todays search for reviews It looks like alot of the reviews though have been redone, to boo B&N for their upgrade (or downgrade as some call it).. I am sure there was one on Engadget that showed sideloading content, that I cannot locate now..

 

Some I did see, that are still there just mention sideloading of content nothing about a bug being fixed.. B&N mentioned sideloading of content.. (I guess in the fine print there was a list that did not say .apk, but since it was my first android tablet I wouldn't be looking for .apk even if I did get to the fine print, because I wouldn't have known .apk stood for apps..  CNN review just mentions content..

 

Here is one (though small, and I must admit, not ones I looked at) that mention sideloading of apps, as a pleasent surprise, but nothing about it being a bug.

http://android-app-reviews.com/tag/sideload-apps-nook-tablet/  But, they cite another link the DigitalReader for telling them about it, http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/11/16/nook-tablet-now-runs-kindle-aldiko-more-no-hack-require... who sited the xda forum for their information...

 

There were other things I looked at may

 

So I agree with JMTR's comment that he stated when he thought liliputing was proving your comment that side-loading was a bug..

Why does it matter whether the Lilliputing article was/is a "review" or a how-to guide? The fact is that it was the first thing encountered upon Googling "Nook sideload." If you wanted to research the capabilities of the Nook Tablet before purchasing one, and not just rely on the manufacturer's rote recitation of specs, the Lilliputing piece was as specific and authoritative as anything you could find.

 

 

Still think all these things add up to more likely to come across in your research, and it is more conclusive to making one feel that sideloading apps was available, and the combination of it trumpts your one lukewarm example of  "There’s no guarantee that Barnes & Noble won’t just disable support for third party apps from “unknown sources” with a future software update"..

 

Again this does not mean the B&N is on the hook to make it happen, just that buyers have the right to return the device if the upgrade caused disappointment.

 

Inspired Bibliophile
compulsivereaderTX
Posts: 1,119
Registered: ‎01-09-2010

Not griping about loss...just waiting to see if I still want one. Depends on B&N.

Just my two cents here. I know, it's only worth that much.

 

But...B&N's previous behavior regarding hacked/rooted/modded Nooks of various types was a HUGE factor in my desire made to upgrade my NC to the NT. The NC and NE1 community has been very upfront with the things they've done with the Nook products and to date, B&N has left them to it. They did NOT shut it down, discourage it or send out "bug fixes" to stop it and there were plenty of opportunities in the past couple of years since the first Nook product was introduced. Yet they did not.

 

In fact, B&N has benefited from the mod community by way of word of mouth advertisement, reviews that cover such modifications and a general interest in the devices because of the mods. It's also pretty clear that feedback was a factor in the design of both the NC and the NT.

 

Based on previous behavior and attitude by B&N, I would NOT have assumed that B&N would fix any "bug" allowing modifications or 3rd party apps unless B&N themselves announced it on the website that the NT had been released with the "bug" and it would be shut down with the next update.And IMMEDIATELY announced it.

 

B&N knew full well there would be a huge customer base that expected the same customization abilities as previous Nook products. How could they not know?? They capitalized on the interest generated by modification of past products, sold a new product with the ability to be modified...and then shut it down.

 

I haven't purchased an NT yet, have an NC. My daughter wanted an NT too until this. Now we are both just waiting to see how it plays out. We won't be griping about something being taken away from us. We will however be making a choice on whether to purchase or not based on how B&N handles things.

The upset of NT owners is VERY reasonable in my opinion and I'm very glad I decided to stick with my NC. With the huge amount of returned NT's coming up, I imagine most people will be waiting to buy refurbished diasabled NTs at a discount rather than buying one at $250 when there are a couple of fully capable tablets close enough in price to be a very attractive alternative. A refurbished NC looks pretty good now too.

 

Whether or not one feels that they've been abused or used by B&N, B&N HAS dropped the ball on this one and generated enough bad feelings that they may be feeling this for awhile. During a time when rumor is rampant about bankruptcies, etc...the opportunity was there to excel and they missed it.

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,950
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1

[ Edited ]

JMTR wrote:

poiuy wrote: "Confirmed, running stock 1.4.0, never rooted.  Both calendar and calculator show up in a search."

___________

 

Thank you. However, even though both of these free apps (not limited-trial software, not pirated copies of Microsoft Office, not 24-hour movie rentals) were preinstalled and accessible to Nook Tablet buyers, I'm sure there must be some other self-evident reason that it was perfectly acceptable for B&N to unilaterally erase them later. :smileyfrustrated:


The search function is a perfectly legitimate way to launch apps. The fact that apps are included in search attests to this. IIRC, there's a setting to include them in results.

 

I don't find it strange or hackish to search for a calculator by entering "calculator" and for a calendar by entering "calendar". You might try searching for some of the other standard Android apps like Contacts, File Manager. My son rarely goes hunting for application icons in Windows submenus. He just uses search to get to what he wants quickly. I guess it's part of growing up in the age of Google.

 

Once located, the apps stay in your search history for quick future access, so it's a nice "favorites" function of sorts. I thought this was a very nice feature of the stock B&N firmware.

 

JMTR: Have you confirmed that they no longer show up when you try this on 1.4.1? If not, that's a pretty clear case of reduced functionality. I do object to you calling them free. They were part of the package you paid for. Why the hell would they remove the calculator?

 

I'm curious to see what keithlm's response is to this. 

Distinguished Correspondent
JMTR
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎12-20-2011

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1

@bobstro: I meant "free" apps in the sense that no further payment from the user is needed, in contrast to things like trial software packages. And the calculator and calendar do not show up in an NT search under 1.4.1. Couldn't find them using Nook Color App Manager, ZDbox, File Star, etc., either. They are GONE.
Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,950
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1


JMTR wrote:
@bobstro: I meant "free" apps in the sense that no further payment from the user is needed, in contrast to things like trial software packages.

No argument intended. I just wanted to make it clear that we paid for the firmware that included those features on Day 1.


And the calculator and calendar do not show up in an NT search under 1.4.1. Couldn't find them using Nook Color App Manager, ZDbox, File Star, etc., either. They are GONE.

Interesting. It's pretty clear that B&N stripped functionality from the previous version.

 

As a point of clarification to the earlier posts, Nook Color App Manager does not, to the best of my recollection, require root access, and it could be sideloaded on 1.4.0 just like anything else at the time. All it did was expose all Android apps to the B&N interface. (I'd appreciate it if one of you guys that have stuck with B&N thus far would confirm this for me.)

Wordsmith
TnTexas
Posts: 892
Registered: ‎10-22-2011

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1

That's correct. Nook Color App Manager did not require rooting; all you did was sideload it. When you open it, it displays the apps you've sideloaded onto the device. From there you can add them directly to the home screen.

Distinguished Correspondent
keithlm
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎10-26-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1


bobstro wrote:I'm curious to see what keithlm's response is to this. 


So apparenlty you could access them from a vanilla stock NT without needing a sided loaded launcher. So it would be appropriate to complain and rant and cry about their removal and then threaten B&N with legal action, or that you'll return the device and your grandma/son/daughter/cousin will return their's becaue the calendar or calculator are no longer included. (Even if most people probably never ran them since they were not on the normal menu.)

 

But that is an entirely different matter than pretending that side-loading is required or your brain will explode and that B&N is legally and morally obligated to provide something that they never advertised or officially supported in any way.

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,950
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: On the verge of returning my NT

[ Edited ]

keithlm wrote:

JMTR wrote:What about the fact that the 1.4.1 update also deleted the calculator and calendar apps from the NT? Do they meet your definition of "functionality"? If a virus found its way onto your PC and did nothing but delete the Windows calculator, would you consider that the removal of something of value?

How did you access the calculator and calendar apps on 1.4.0 on a stock Nook Tablet?

 

If the answer is that you couldn't... then the rest of your argument has no merit.

 


Now that we've established that these apps (and presumably others we haven't heard about) were, in fact, accessible from the unrooted, stock B&N 1.4.0 firmware, I think JMTR's point has merit.

 

It is entirely appropriate for consumers to express their displeasure when a company decides to remove such features without adequate prior warning. While one can argue whether the average consumer should have been able to ascertain B&N's future plans regarding sideloading, I don't think they've got much of a case for taking basic functions out without prior warning, and a calculator is about as basic as you can get.

 

Using this logic, B&N might opt to "enhance" the library by removing the Shelves function and offering a B&N Market app to provide the same feature at a time in the future of their choosing. How much further of a stretch is it for B&N to block access to Amazon web sites via the NOOK browser? I don't see anything in the NOOKtablet marketing literature that advertises "unrestricted web access". That wasn't "given" (using keithlm's term) to us. Can they opt to take it away now?

 

I'm not screaming for a lawsuit against B&N. I'm not returning my NOOKtablet. I'm pointing out that this entire episode has been very badly handled by B&N, and is very poor customer service. This is not the first time that B&N have made decisions about what should be or not be on their customers' devices. Do they intend to learn?

 

B&N can make amends for much of the ill-will they have generated by giving up on the idea that they (B&N) should control what is on the paying revenue stream's (the customer) device. Restoring the ability to side-load apps, even without root, would go a long ways towards making things right. They should also be forthcoming with information about pending updates, and provide an opportunity for customers to simply opt-out if they so desire.

 

Question for the audience: On 1.4.0, could you sideload the Amazon App Store and download apps with it after installation? I never tested this. Amazon has always provided a link to download their App Store apk directly via a web browser.

Reader 2
aramis1250
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎01-11-2012

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1


keithlm wrote:

bobstro wrote:I'm curious to see what keithlm's response is to this. 


So apparenlty you could access them from a vanilla stock NT without needing a sided loaded launcher. So it would be appropriate to complain and rant and cry about their removal and then threaten B&N with legal action, or that you'll return the device and your grandma/son/daughter/cousin will return their's becaue the calendar or calculator are no longer included. (Even if most people probably never ran them since they were not on the normal menu.)

 

But that is an entirely different matter than pretending that side-loading is required or your brain will explode and that B&N is legally and morally obligated to provide something that they never advertised or officially supported in any way.


According to the TOS, sideloading is specifically permitted. Really. Section 1, paragraph A.

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,950
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1


aramis1250 wrote:
According to the TOS, sideloading is specifically permitted. Really. Section 1, paragraph A

Would you happen to have a link? I'd like to capture it before any editing occurs.

Reader 2
aramis1250
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎01-11-2012

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1

Distinguished Correspondent
F14Scott
Posts: 72
Registered: ‎06-29-2010

Re: On the verge of returning my NT


bobstro wrote:

Question for the audience: On 1.4.0, could you sideload the Amazon App Store and download apps with it after installation? I never tested this. Amazon has always provided a link to download their App Store apk directly via a web browser.


Yes.  I did it, myself, both before and after rooting.

Frequent Contributor
darkquota
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎11-08-2011

Re: Functionality in B&N 1.4.0 stripped from 1.4.1

Seeing all of these arguments about what constitutes a tablet, sideloading, etc... just reminds of something I found via the Stumbleupon app a few days ago.

 

Quote by Friedrich Nietzsche: "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

 

:smileytongue:

Contributor
BytheNook
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎12-24-2011

Re: On the verge of returning my NT

Moose_Tracker posted:  But you are the first to try to say that ALL reviews that mentioned side-loading also said it was a bug that would be fixed.. I think you are bluring reality with rose colored glasses!

 

 

I read several reviews on the NT.  I can't recall most of the at this moment, but this is one of the reviews that I read before purchasing:

 

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/21/barnes-and-noble-nook-tablet-review/

 

The section that deals with side loading:

 

As with the Fire, the app selection is limited to those Barnes & Noble wants on the device. Of course, there are workarounds -- lots of them, in fact. We were feeling a bit saucy and managed to load the Amazon Appstore on the slate (here's where that microSD card comes in handy) with little effort. Or, you can always just root the Tablet. Barnes & Noble would prefer you score your content through officially sanctioned channels, of course, but the company hasn't exactly made it difficult to find other avenues.

No mention of "the company will make it more difficult in the future"...