Official "UnOfficial" reply from B&N

[Omnigeek]

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mohawkx wrote:

Generally, security concerns are the responsibility of the owner of the device and not the seller of the device.

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Yes and no.  Look at how much flak MS has deservedly taken for the holes in Windows and IE?  HW manufacturers were leaned on to push out firmware fixes before Y2K hit and Energizer got a black eye when it was learned their Duo recharger device had not just a security hole but an actual exploit coded into the device driver (that it tried to push on you every time the Duo was hooked to a new machine).

Certainly, owners are now being taken to task for not keeping up with patches -- well, this was a security patch.

[BytheNook]

rgburch posted: Can someone please provide a single security incident that occurred on an NT prior to 1.4.1 that this patch will now stop?

I can... B&N got a small chunk of my money.

[cupajoe]

I'm bummed to learn about the security fix.  I just bought the NT but haven't opened it.  I had planned to side load to get a better calendar and contacts apps - hopefully google calendar and gmail contacts or at least compatible to make syncing easy.  What are my choices now (short of returning it and getting the KF or maybe the Acer 100?

[ZombiePete]

I've gotten two (one on Saturday which was exchanged for one this morning) and both had 1.4.0 on them. If you're willing, you can sideload what you want on there and even block the OTA.

[Nom-de-Nook]

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cupajoe wrote:

I'm bummed to learn about the security fix.  I just bought the NT but haven't opened it.  I had planned to side load to get a better calendar and contacts apps - hopefully google calendar and gmail contacts or at least compatible to make syncing easy.  What are my choices now (short of returning it and getting the KF or maybe the Acer 100?

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Nookcolor and CM7

[jelabarre59]

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Nom-de-Nook wrote:

Alex, thanks for you forthrightness.  Hopefully some people can move on.  BN blocked sideloading on purpose and is determined that its reasoning for doing so is sound.

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Yeah, it's sound for THEM, not for me.  Does B&N have ConnectBot?  Do they have DejaOffice?   Nope, they do not.  Does the NT support Lotus Traveler?  nope, not that either.  Can I add apps from Comcast/Xfinity?  Nope.  Dropbox (one that works with the NT)?  Mmmmm, nope.  Those are the ones I can think of on short notice.  Yeah, B&N wants to keep you captive to their system; all these years avoiding vendor lock-in, and here I am stuck locked to a company that, thanks to killing off all the independent shops, and the death or Borders, has a near monopoly of the bookstore market.

And now with the firmware update B&N is trying to "pull a Sony" (we're all familiar with the shameful actions regarding the PS3). 

[Nom-de-Nook]

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jelabarre59 wrote:

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Nom-de-Nook wrote:

Alex, thanks for you forthrightness.  Hopefully some people can move on.  BN blocked sideloading on purpose and is determined that its reasoning for doing so is sound.

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Yeah, it's sound for THEM, not for me.  Does B&N have ConnectBot?  Do they have DejaOffice?   Nope, they do not.  Does the NT support Lotus Traveler?  nope, not that either.  Can I add apps from Comcast/Xfinity?  Nope.  Dropbox (one that works with the NT)?  Mmmmm, nope.  Those are the ones I can think of on short notice.  Yeah, B&N wants to keep you captive to their system; all these years avoiding vendor lock-in, and here I am stuck locked to a company that, thanks to killing off all the independent shops, and the death or Borders, has a near monopoly of the bookstore market.

And now with the firmware update B&N is trying to "pull a Sony" (we're all familiar with the shameful actions regarding the PS3). 

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I agree, I didn't say that the decision was sound.  I said BN is convinced that the decision is sound.  Thus, you can be assured they won't change their minds any time soon.  And that knowledge give all NT owners and prospective owners power to make the right decision for themselves.  Personally, I won't be buying one because I don't want to root to get the apps that I want.  But I don't buy devices unless I know they will work for me.  Thus, I am not an "early adopter".  You still have the same options you always had, live with it, root it or return it.  But now you have more knowledge to base your decision on.  Personally, if I had that many apps I wanted that BN didn't have, I would return it and get something else. 

[robotecture]

Right, they aren't going to change course. However, I think there is actually a fourth option. Keep your device, use the apps that are available, but place a request with BN and the app developers for those apps you want, to get them to port them to the nook, which lets them know there is interest. BTW, of course apps are a personal thing, byt none of the apps you mention are a big loss IMHO, at least for me, other than dropbox which us in the works, and which I have ready access to through the fike manager on QuickOffuce Pro...

[rgburch]

I disagree, and recent history supports the idea. Nintendo said they would never support consumer adding their own memory to Wii, now you can buy your own SD card and plug it in. They also said the 3DS wasn't overpriced. 3 months later price was slashed. You don't get Netflix from "Quickster", consumers aren't going to give Verizon $2 to pay their bill, and Go Daddy pulled their support of SOPA after big public outcry and customers moving their domains. If we all stop buying Nook books (ok, we can all take the free book on Fridays) for 3-6 months and use library e-lending or go get free classics from Google (reading classics is NEVER a bad idea), let's see if they change their Corporate minds? Economic pressure does work, you just need to get people to agree and band together in common cause.

As for Nook being a loss leader, that is doubtful. iSuppli has not put out their estimate on the bill of materials (BOM) for NT, but the Kindle Fire BOM is $209. NT is not much beyond that. BN isn't making a much on it, but there is room for a profit margin on the hardware. Even more reason to boycott Nook books until they retract the hobbling of 1.4.1.

[robotecture]

Have fun with your boycott... in the meantime the rest of us will enjoy our nice new nooks and look forward to other improvements to the device this year...

[flyingtoastr Scribe]

People whine when BN doesn't give them a response.

People whine when BN gives them a response.

Oh the joys of the internet.

[jeremypj44]

Simple statement from average user:

I like what it does.  It reads beautifully.  Video is crisp.  Games play smoothly.   Book store is great and service has been pretty good.

But it needs work.  I hope to see bugs fixed that are mentioned in suggestions forum and more.  And if sideloading isn't going to be allowed, we need apps developed, and I mean yesterday.  Otherwise, you have no right to call this a tablet.  Start shipping this as an e-reader+.  This product is a baby still, and you have the ability to make this just another reader with some extras or something special.  I'm hoping for something special.

[F14Scott]

Dear Alex,

Thank you for your forthright post.  I have been waiting for more of an official response than silence, and your explanation gives me and others insight into the rationale behind 1.4.1's removal of sideloading.  Truly, I appreciate your honesty.  I am very sorry to report I will return my Nook Tablet tomorrow, and I have already ordered a Galaxy Tab 7, as I am an experienced Android user who values the trhousands of apps available on the Android Market, many of which I already own.

Sincerely,

Scott

P.S.  Here's my order:

http://www.diigo.com/item/image/25jy2/1mg9

[robotecture]

I find the comments "you have no right to call this a tablet, call it an ereader +" to be laughable and childish... what exactly are the apps that would qualify a device as a tablet that the NT is lacking exactly? I mean, it has Netflix HD streaming, Hulu Plus, Pandora Radio, Pulse News Reader, Rhapsody, Groovesgark, Ustream, tunein radio, Evernote, Skitch, Springpad, Splashtop Remote Desktop, Remote Desktop Client, editing ms office capabilities with quickoffice pro or office suite pro, access to dropbox, box.net, google docs, moble me, huddle, and sugar sync through quickoffice,Seesmic, Taptu, Weather Radar, Cozi, Epicurious, Movie Gallery for managing your sideloaded dvds, good reads, games including angry birds, Plants vs. Zombies ( on its way), bejewelled 2, scrabble, words with friends, quell, etc... What precisely is it lacking that disqualifies it from being called a tablet exactly? I'd really like to understand this rationale because last I checked, the HP touchpad running webOS and the blackberry playbook are full tablets despite having significantly more limited app selection...

[bobstro]

I'm not going to boycott B&N. I'm truly rooting for them. I made a conscious decision to re-enter their walled garden with 1.4.1, even though I know perfectly well how to get out, having run Cyanogenmod on my Color since July of 2010. I've bought books and subscribed to magazines through their market. I do want them to succeed. The problem isn't that I don't know how to get around their restrictions; it's that I want to support them, yet also use the device in sensible, legal and intelligent ways. I'm disappointed that the company that got so much right with a device as stellar as the Nook Color is now determined to hobble it.

• Walled Gardens have a history of not lasting. AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe and others are sad giants of the past that have faded away not long after open alternatives became available... namely, this whole "Internet" thing. When a more open alternative became widely available, people abandoned these en-masse, and by then, it was too late for them to adapt. Even Apple's ecosystem is being nibbled at by Amazon's Cloud services, though their phone-to-desktop lineup gives them staying power, a decided edge over a one-function device stable like B&N's Nook.

• DRM has also fallen out of favor. Amazon (again) led the way by offering DRM-free MP3s legally, and have done well with them. Even Apple's almighty iTunes store has given up on DRM. Anybody who wants to can load iTunes on their Windows machine as well. I love B&N's brick-and-mortar stores, and frequent them when I can, but I don't like the idea that my library is -- literally -- tied to their continued survival. If they disappear, unless somebody else steps up, I can be locked out of using what I buy from them. 

• Finally, what's the deal with restricting what the B&N device can do, while letting me use the B&N Nook app for other Android devices? Which side is going to get screwed? Will the Android app be hobbled (OK, more than it is now) limiting what B&N content can be purchased? How do publishers feel about that? Or will that app eventually reach the functionality of 1.4.1, rendering the gorgeous Nook Color pointless as similarly priced full-function tablets become more common? What's the deal with B&N having to lock down the Tablet to make Hulu and Netflix happy, when I can download their apps on that competitor's Android device and use them without restriction?

So here I am, knowing what this device can do, and willing to play ball with B&N by buying their content (and incredibly sexy, but over-priced accessories). Yet these (technically) arbitrary limitations are placed on the device, forcing me to carry multiple gizmos to do what I know this one can do. In my case, corporate email and calendaring functions are a must-have, along with the e-reader functionality. I'd sure like to access the books I legally purchased from Amazon, even if I intend to use B&N exclusively in the future. I can be like the guy at Starbucks, propping his iPad up on his MacBook while talking on his iPhone, but I'd really rather not. 

I feel that B&N is leaving me no choice but to abaondon their ecosystem to get a couple of simple things done in a reasonable manner. To get what I need, the NC will get left at home. Beyond just the price of the device, B&N loses out on:

1. Future purchases of content (books and magazines). If I'm not in the B&N ecosystem, B&N is just another source of content among several. I'll tend to use the cheapest, all other things being equal. The Nook 'experience' is what makes them not-equal.
2. Future purchases of accessories. I've already paid over $100 for cases for this thing. $20 for screen protectors. All multiplied by multiple devices in the house.
3. Reasons to visit B&N brick and mortar stores at home or on the road. Easier to just bring up amazon.com in a browser and get what I want there. More selection anyhow, and I won't make those $60 impulse book purchases. Saves on gas and travel time, too.
4. Future Nook upgrades and purchases. I nearly went for a Nook Tablet after seeing my wife's until I realized what they'd done to it. I'd contemplated two more for family.

(That's about and additional $930 I would've paid retail at the B&N here locally, before taxes, just this Christmas season.)

This isn't some tantrum because I didn't get the toys I wanted. I don't feel B&N owe me this. I know how to work around all these issues. I'm just trying to figure out B&N's logic. I like having a nearby bookstore. I dearly miss having Border's, Bookstar and all those other wonderful big bookstores around. I'm one of those schmucks who will actually go into a local store and pay retail PLUS tax rather than order at discount online because I like a physical presence. So why isn't B&N bending over backwards to make customers like me happy too?

[jeremypj44]

robotecture

Many of the apps you have named require a subscription.  If I had enough to pay for Hulu,Rhapsody, Netlix, Pandora premium, etc., I'd own an ipad 2 because I'd be rich.  I did not say there were NO good apps whatsoever.  I stated that the selection is very weak.  You've named the top 5 games on the market, but after that it's junk.  A small handful of generic card games, no sports game.  And last I looked, the HP Touchpad and Blackberry was going down in flames during fire sales also.  So that makes a terrible comparison. 

My statement merely points out that if you confine users strictly to your applications, provide a massive variety to appease the masses.  I guess as an iphone owner, I am spoiled with this philosophy.  Apple forces you to use their market, but I can spend all day finding new apps.  I've seen every page of the app market at B/N in one sitting. 

I hope you aren't one of those people who replies to every single thing you disagree with.  I'm voicing my concerns in hopes that they will be addressed by the company that is responsible for this device. I don't need some never ending banter.  To each their own.

[robotecture]

bobstro: Nice post, well thought out. I do have a couple questions for you: 1. It is already possible to root the device with the 1.4.1 OS installed, and the boot loader has been cracked so it is only a matter of time before you can dual boot on the nook tablet, same as on the nook color. Would either of these options work for your needs? 2. Regarding not wanting so many devices, for corporate email and calendaring functions for example, I agree. They ought to add this functionality. That said, for me, the nook tablet will never replace my smart phone for these kinds of functions, although it might be a secondary device for these uses if it synced well... This is because for essential always on things like email and calendaring and phone etc., and even for social networking functions, a phone that is always connected to 3G network and is not reliant on the proximity of a wifi connection will always be more reliable and useful. Myself, I have two devices I carry with me: an iPhone, and my nook tablet. I expect different functions from the tablet, which is for those things my phone doesnt do as well... It is a wifi only device with a 7" screen... It's my reading material, books and magazines and newspapers, a larger web browser, video player, and useful for taking notes etc. using Evernote, or working in ms office documents using quickoffice pro, or marking up images using skitch, or PDFs using ez PDF reader.

[bobstro]

robotecture: In answer to your questions:

1. Yes, I've seen the NT rooted. Not so sure about alternate firmware, but there is a lot of customization going on using B&N's locked bootloader and stock kernel, to the point that the NT looks and functions nearly like Cyanogenmod now. I can also root and run alternate firmware on my NC. I'm just wondering why B&N insists that it's impossible to do so many simple functions that shouldn't require root to start with. I'm a techie, and I was originally very impressed with the Nook Color. Their recent directions seem to negate a lot of the device's promise.

2. I'm not necessarily expecting to replace the phone, but a tablet is a lot easier for note taking and email correspondence than the phone. A smart phone is a bad comprimise in my opinion. I'd like a phone that does voice, and provide a mobile hotspot for other devices. I'd love to get 3-4 days off a phone charge again!

I certainly don't want one tablet for corporate email and a Nook for reading. That simply won't happen. I need corporate email a lot more than I need a reader, so guess which one winds up left at home and unused?

I have found that most places amenable to pulling out my Nook Color tend to have wifi. I've used it on planes, in the hospital (for a week) and at work. While not quite ubiquitous, wifi is not hard to find in most metro areas. I do have hotspot on my phone as a last resort.

My Nook Color running Cyanogenmod actually replaced my laptop during my hospital stay. I pulled out my laptop, only to find the screen had been shattered during my redeye flight home. The Nook saved the day, and I was able to use it throughout the rest of my stay to keep in touch. Obviously, the Nook Color can do all these things. The Nook Tablet should be able to. None of these are nefarious or illegal activities. I am a legitimate user wanting to use my device in legitimate ways, and buying a whole bunch of content and toys from B&N in the process. Yet they seem intent on making this difficult.

I'm trying hard to play in B&N's walled garden. I like the company, I like the stores. I've recommended the Nook Color to colleagues across the country. I'd like to support them. At the same time, I know how to do what I want elsewhere. I'm just puzzled about what B&N really thinks they will gain from making life difficult for users like me.

[Hwy2H3ll]

I absolutely love my Nook Tablet. Just for the record I do have it rooted, but I would still enjoy it even if I didn't. The main reason for rooting my NT was the lack of apps in the B&N market. I also wanted the ability to use the apps I have purchased for phone. I wanted to be able to access those apps without having to take two devices with me all the time.

I wish B&N would provide some way for those of us with apps that we have already purchased to be able to install them without having to purchase them a second time. This is probably my biggest gripe with regard to the recent update. Before I rooted, I had to purchase duplicates for the NT instead of being able to use what I had already purchased.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with NT and wouldn't consider returning it. It has a beautiful screen, its quick and responsive, and unlike the Fire you can add an SD card. I have high hopes for B&N stepping up their game with respect to the app store. It would be great to see them put together an app store that rivals the Android Market itself. 

[robotecture]

Agreed, let's hope they add corporate email (ms exchange I assume?), and better email client options.