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bobstro
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


TnTexas wrote:

[...] Although I might decide to get her a Fire instead and keep the Tablet for myself a bit longer. A lot will depend on what kind of reviews it gets over the next few months.


Waitaminit! :smileyhappy: Of all the options now available, what would swing you to a Fire today?

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TnTexas
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

bobstro: Waitaminit! :smileyhappy: Of all the options now available, what would swing you to a Fire today?

 

Fair question. I'm thinking the Fire is a bit more intuitive and would therefore be a bit easier for my daughter to use. And I'll admit it; I'm selfish. If anyone's going to get the Nexus 7 in this family, I want it to be me. So if I get my daughter a new device instead of handing over my old one, I'd rather it be the Fire. :smileyembarrassed:

Mark_OB1
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

flyingtoastr wrote:


It isn't an entirely fair comparison given that the NT design is going on a year old....

 

I'd agree with that.

 

When the inevable refresh comes along in a couple months I think we'll see exactly where BN is taking their devices in regards to competition with the pure Android experience.

 

I hope you are correct!  As in, I hope they really will compete with the pure Android experience.

 

A new device is always going to outspec an old one. But, as Apple continues to demonstrate, specs aren't everything.

 

Well, in this case, it's not just specs... it's real functionality.  Let's hope B&N aimed high enough on their NT2, because the NT is no longer a serious contender.

 

- Mark


 

Mark_OB1
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


patgolfneb wrote:
I find it interesting that only a front camera was included?
Yes, they dropped off the rear cam that Asus had originally planned on their Memo370T version of this tablet.
While the specs are good it seems as though we are already reaching the point where niches are going to develop.
It's certainly true that a B&N device could remain competitive, based on software, the user experience, and overall functionality, without outgunning the rest on raw horsepower, or # of CPU cores.
E books and simple games are still the uses that highly portable 7 inchers excell at that phones or bigger devices don't do as well.
Agreed.  But the 7" space, which B&N had to themselves initially (and failed to capitalize on as much as they could/should have, IMO), is now heating up.  B&N needs to respond, and I'd hate for that response to be nothing more than dropping the price points on current NTs to $179 and $229 (which is a possible tactic).
Perhaps with bluetooth and sd slot and better speakers BN can use their Microsoft connection for a better game or music device.
Even the oft-maligned rear cam is an area that could help.  Not only is it useful for quick snaps on the go with your tablet, but it can be used to scan barcodes to look things up, or for social (as I saw one complaint about the Nexus7, "there goes Instagram").  B&N could still play up social aspects more.
Improving reader app is still job one
This seems obvious to me as well, but I have to wonder if B&N is aware of it?  I agree that if B&N provided a unique, unexcelled reading experience, unavailable anywhere else, that in itself would be a huge competitive factor.  The (glaring) problem is, they haven't even got the features they have offered working, after 2 years!
but screen and cpu specs are good enough that they are more of an advertising point than real world performance difference for average consumers. When battery life reaches 14 hours it becomes less important as well.
I definitely agree with you that in many areas, once you achieve "good enough", then anything beyond that is icing on the cake, and largely PR.  However I can tell you for sure that the higher 1280x800 rez of the new 7" screens is a real win for reading some types of content. 
E.g., all my PDFs look way better, and far more readable than on a device with only 600-pixels wide in portrait.  Same with maps, magazines, and the web.  There are other examples as well, but it doesn't apply to all types of content.  I've generally found 1024x600 adequate, for most uses.  The question will be if minimally adequate is still "good enough".
- Mark

 

Mark_OB1
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

fkm71 wrote:

 

I am really wanting one of these Nexus 7 tablets.  It is what I wish the NT was for the most part.  

 

Which is what B&N needs to recognize, and offer competition for.

 

I don't need the camera but it would be great for video calls.  

 

Exactly.  As time goes on, people's expectations for what a "tablet" does are increasing.  The bar is rising.

 

I believe that the only hope B&N has is going this New Co route with Microsoft, whatever that involves.  

 

I don't see much coming out of their relationship with MS (other than the $600M, which is being used very effectively for advertising, and raising awareness of the Nook ecosystem).

 

The main issue with that is going to be that it is too late.  I really don't see them adding anything new and innovative by the time they get around to it.  They may want to save the "surprise" but the only surprise is going to be theirs when the market asks why we need whatever it is B&N is giving us.  

 

This seems strange.  You do realize that B&N has been working on whatever is "next", for the last 9 months since the NT was released, and has 3 months left to complete it?  You (nor I) have no clue what innovative things they may have come up with.  Just one week ago, Google had NO device that was competitive against either NT.

 

With the Nexus 7, MS Surface, the iPad, and Kindle Fire "2.0" we won't need or want anything that B&N gives us.  

 

Given how unimpressed I was with the KF1, I'm not anticipating anything revolutionary for the KF2.  But I could be wrong. 

 

As for the rest of your commentary, it's way off base.  The NT2, KF2, and Nexus7 are not in competition with the iPad or either of the Surface tablets.  Not only because you're talking $200-ish devices vs. $500-ish.  But the 7" vs. 10" puts them in a completely different category, with different use cases, as well.  Those are not what B&N needs to be concerned about.

 

The only possibility I can see is a Windows 8 tablet which would be a way of admitting that they messed up with the NT.

 

???  I can't see any chance of that happening.  They'd kill their entire fledgling App ecosystem in one motion, since none of their apps will run on Win8 RT.

 

I just don't want to fool with the rooting as inevitably I find small issues like "Your device is not compatible" that keep me from enjoying it ( I tried rooting for a while, back to stock now).  I shouldn't have to root the device or jump through hoops to use the apps that will work just fine on the NT.

 

The problem there is that the number of folks who leave the platform because they want the benefits of rooting, but don't feel like doing so, is fairly small.  If the B&N perception is that the offerings in their Nook App Store are adequate for the vast majority of their customers (currently at ~5,000 apps, and growing at about 100/week), then the 'walled garden' will remain in place.

 

The rules at Google have changed regarding requirements for devices to offer access to the Android App market, so B&N could theoretically decide to offer a portal there (possibly with a warning about the lower-quality content there not being up to B&N standards). 

 

However, Google Play now also offers books, music, etc.  So it's a another sales ecosystem, competing for customer dollars.  I can't see B&N allowing that, any more than making it easy for NT owners to shop at Amazon.  So IF what someone really needs is access to that, and is unwilling to expend the effort of rooting, then the Nexus7 makes way more sense for them than even an improved NT2 coming out this fall.

 

- Mark


 

Mark_OB1
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


TnTexas wrote:
And in case anyone's interested, here's an article that throws the Samsung 7 (aka as Galaxy Tab 2) and the Tablet into the mix:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/nexus-7-vs-kindle-fire-vs-nook-tablet-200-tablet-showdown/


Um... no it doesn't  :smileyhappy:  It's N7 vs. KF1 vs. NT.

 

The thing is that while it's easy enough to make charts and compare specs, specs don't tell the whole story.  E.g., the N7 has a quad-core Tegra3 processor, which in real-world use may not be any faster than a dual-core OMAP processor.  But it sounds 'better'.

 

Also, it's misleading to say that the N7 and KF can be charged from a computer, but the NT can't.  It can (assuming it's like my 3 NC's), because I've done so dozens of times.  It just charges slower that way.  I don't know what the charge time is for the KF and N7 (which are limited to the 500 mA they can draw through USB), but I do know that the Nooks have a high-current charge mode, which lets them charge much more quickly than they would otherwise.  So instead of this looking like a negative for the NT, it should be billed as an advantage!

 

Likewise, it shows 3 different marketplaces for the 3 tablets: GooglePlay, Amazon, and B&N store.  Which is misleading, because while the KF and NT are locked into their single ecosystem, the N7 has access to all 3!

 

I do find the screen rez, lighter weight, Bluetooth, camera, and open-access to be compelling advantages for the new N7.

 

- Mark

 

Wordsmith
TnTexas
Posts: 897
Registered: ‎10-22-2011

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

Mark_OB1: Exactly.  As time goes on, people's expectations for what a "tablet" does are increasing.  The bar is rising.

 

Absolutely, and it will only continue to rise from here on out. That's the main reason I'm not convinced the Color and Tablet aren't ultimately black holes for B&N. 

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ColorTabUser
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6061/mhl-and-usbotg-on-the-nexus-7-mounting-usb-storage-not-supported

 

Just another tidbit about the Nexus 7.

USBOTG would have been a nice way to side-step the whole issue of not having an SD card reader. I'm still thinking of getting one, to be honest.

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Undo
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎07-12-2011

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

I ordered my Nexus 7 yesterday. I have enjoyed my Nook Color but get frustrated by its restricted OS and no access to the Android app market. B&N: open up your OS and maybe I'll buy your hardware again someday.

 

Tried it rooted but it's not the same as a real open tablet.

 

I will miss being able to read my Time subscription on the new Nexus because so far, the magazine won't work in the Nook App without running on an actual Nook.

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billraab60
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎06-18-2012

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

I just bit the bullet and rooted my Nook Tablet last Friday and am now happily taking advantage of all available Android options for my tablet. I would have preferred to be loyal to Barnes and Noble and not rooted the unit but I have waited long enough. Now I can comfortably call it a tablet.

 

Don't fence me in... which is why I didn't not buy an iPad in the first place.

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bobstro
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


billraab60 wrote:

I just bit the bullet and rooted my Nook Tablet last Friday and am now happily taking advantage of all available Android options for my tablet. I would have preferred to be loyal to Barnes and Noble and not rooted the unit but I have waited long enough. Now I can comfortably call it a tablet.

 

Don't fence me in... which is why I didn't not buy an iPad in the first place.


I'd love to know how rooting my devices is disloyal to B&N. I've bought 3 NC, 1 NT and 2 NST, not to mention 4 ongoing magazine subscriptions and numerous books in recent months. B&N seems more than happy to take our cash. How can anyone figure we're anything but their best customers?

flyingtoastr
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


bobstro wrote:

I'd love to know how rooting my devices is disloyal to B&N. I've bought 3 NC, 1 NT and 2 NST, not to mention 4 ongoing magazine subscriptions and numerous books in recent months. B&N seems more than happy to take our cash. How can anyone figure we're anything but their best customers?



The best customers don't continually make comments that their device doesn't do something it was never intended (or advertised) to do? Maybe.

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Undo
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎07-12-2011

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


flyingtoastr wrote:

The best customers don't continually make comments that their device doesn't do something it was never intended (or advertised) to do? Maybe.


Good point. I bought into the Nook ecosystem with my Simpletouch and Nook Color. But that was before I really knew about the wider world.

DeanGibson
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


Undo wrote:
... I bought into the Nook ecosystem with my Simpletouch and Nook Color. But that was before I really knew about the wider world.

I wonder if a significant block of Nook buyers (color/tablet) aren't going to be transitional for B&N:  Buy a Nook, buy some books, get used to tablet-like features, want more, move on.

Nooks: 2 Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted;
    2 HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 (Android 4.0.4) rooted
Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 7.0": Android 4.2.2 rooted
LG G3 & G Pad 8.3 Android 4.4.2 rooted; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
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bobstro
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


flyingtoastr wrote:

The best customers don't continually make comments that their device doesn't do something it was never intended (or advertised) to do? Maybe.


I've never complained that the NOOKs don't do things it was advertised to do, but I don't feel bad about voicing my opinions about B&N's strategy. Given the trends here in the boards lately, I'm not the only one with similar feelings. Would B&N prefer that customers just silently leave without expressing why?

 

Meanwhile, I've spent plenty of money at B&N. They seem happy enough to take my money.

flyingtoastr
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


bobstro wrote:

I've never complained that the NOOKs don't do things it was advertised to do, but I don't feel bad about voicing my opinions about B&N's strategy. Given the trends here in the boards lately, I'm not the only one with similar feelings. Would B&N prefer that customers just silently leave without expressing why?

 

Meanwhile, I've spent plenty of money at B&N. They seem happy enough to take my money.



Oh not talking about you specifically, just the general rooting community we get on these boards ("my NOOK doesn't go to the Google Play Store and it's NOT A REAL TABLET WAAAA!!!!"). It has been made abundantly clear that Google Play access is not going to be part of the NOOK experience, and no salesman is going to dupe you into buying it by saying it is. Hence why I don't consider rooters "good" customers.

 

I'm not commenting on the validity of BN's position at all.

flyingtoastr
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

DeanGibson wrote:

I wonder if a significant block of Nook buyers (color/tablet) aren't going to be transitional for B&N:  Buy a Nook, buy some books, get used to tablet-like features, want more, move on.



Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Users like that will be familiar with NOOK, and probably have a vested interest (i.e. content purchased via BN) in installing and continuing to use the NOOK app on their new device. In addition, they would probably still be likely to be interested in BN's eInk models to augment their shiny new tablet, given that no major tablet vendor produces ereaders.

 

Granted, there are some major problems that are IAMCA. But there are worse business models.

DeanGibson
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


flyingtoastr wrote:
It has been made abundantly clear that Google Play access is not going to be part of the NOOK experience, and no salesman is going to dupe you into buying it by saying it is. Hence why I don't consider rooters "good" customers.

I'm not commenting on the validity of BN's position at all.


 

  1. By what announcement or communication from B&N?  By inference, well yes, in retrospect.  But remember the excitement preceding the Nook Color 1.2 release?  And the Nook Tablet release?  B&N would like the association with the tablet capability (eg, "e-Reader's tablet") without the cost (or, might I add, corporate communication).
  2. When I first walked in to a B&N store and asked if the Nook Color could do a certain task, the salesperson's response was (verbatim):  "No, but you can root it."  Actually, she was wrong;  I didn't need to root it for the requested task.

 

Mind you, I'm not unhappy with my Nook device purchases.  Like others, I just want what other devices offer, and I'm giving B&N the "right of first refusal".

 

If B&N brings out a color e-Ink reader, I'll probably get it and suffer the disadvantages.  Otherwise, I'm probably done.  That's not a threat or leaving in a huff;  it's reality.

Nooks: 2 Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted;
    2 HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 (Android 4.0.4) rooted
Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 7.0": Android 4.2.2 rooted
LG G3 & G Pad 8.3 Android 4.4.2 rooted; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
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roustabout
Posts: 3,680
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

FT writes:  ' the general rooting community we get on these boards ("my NOOK doesn't go to the Google Play Store and it's NOT A REAL TABLET WAAAA!!!!" ...  Hence why I don't consider rooters "good" customers.)

 

Actually, that's not what you hear from the rooting community on these boards. 

 

The rooters are generally fairly satisfied with what can be achieved by rooting, and sometimes more than.  

 

You do hear that from folks who are not rooters and either

- never had access to function X, but want it or

- had access to function X when they bought the device, only to have it made accessible only if they root.   

 

The rooters, myself included, had figured out how to fix the partitioning for themselves before BN began offering it as a service, for instance.   

 

It sounds to me as if the reason rooters are, for some at BN, poor customers is that they show others what is possible and recommend they not settle for what is enabled this week.  

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bobstro
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


DeanGibson wrote:
 [...] 
  1. When I first walked in to a B&N store and asked if the Nook Color could do a certain task, the salesperson's response was (verbatim):  "No, but you can root it."  Actually, she was wrong;  I didn't need to root it for the requested task.

In my case, when I was looking at the NC at a Staples in Las Vegas before buying my first, the saleslady was eagerly telling me all about rooting the device. She didn't seem particulary interested in answering my questions, mind you, but she was very enthusiastic about rooting! There definitely was a bit of "wink and a nod" about it back then. The NC had a definite buzz in the technie community.

 

I'm thinking about the NSTG, or whatever its next successor is, though I hardly need a new device. Not sure if color eInk would pull me in. No more NC or NT though, unless B&N does something to absolutely delight me.