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Inspired Bibliophile
LarryOnLI
Posts: 1,998
Registered: ‎01-04-2010

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

I'm married to "Julie".....

 

She refuses to get a smart phone, her old phone was so obsolete that AT&T sent her a letter that it would soon no longer work on their network and she needed a new phone. She wanted (and got) another dumb phone, despite my offer to get her an iPhone 4S.

 

I got her an iPad, she still uses her NOOK 1E for reading. She doesn't even buy her own books on the device. She tells me what I want and I buy it for her.

 

Every time I want to show her some neat new thing my phone/tablet/computer etc can do, she yawns.

 

She is NOT an airhead, ditz, or whatever some people here characterize a "Julie". She is a accomplished, intelligent, professional woman, who is totally unimpressed with technology. She just wants to do what what she wants to do.

 

She would never post on a blog or message board, so you will never see her here.

 

The "Julie" segment is much larger than you are aware of. I know many "Julies" and they are the majority, not us.

 

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BruceMcF
Posts: 801
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

TnTexas wrote:
Maybe we're just disagreeing over terminology, though, since I pretty much agree with your last statement. My biggest objection is that I wouldn't classify all the "late adopters" who will be looking for a device for the first time as "Julies". Not all of them are fluffy-headed, timid creatures who are afraid of technology.


Yes, we are disagreeing about terminology. I wouldn't see "Julies" as fluffy-headed, timid creatures afraid of tech

 

And I should hope that is not what B&N marketing things of that market segment, since if anyone in B&N's marketing department looks down on an important part of their customer base in that way, they ought to be fired. No way in hell could they market effectively to people who don't care all that much about the tech if they view that important market segment in such an arrogant and patronizing way.

 

As far as classifying all the "late adopters" as "Julies" (in a realistic sense rather than as an arrogant two-dimensional stereotype), well, reading is fundamental. I quite clearly said that the "Julies" will be growing in numbers and in market share, since more of the late adopters would be "Julies". I quite clearly did not say that "all" late adopters would be "Julies".

 


keriflur wrote:
... They don't have time between driving little Jimmy to soccer and little Susie to track, and then taking care of the baby until it's time to pick the other two up, to read tech blogs and find out about what they're missing out on....


Or they have time, but not the desire or energy. And there isn't always a baby to take care of between ... which is part of why downloadable audio/visual media is an important complement to dowloadable print media, making the lack of downloadable audio/visual media content a big hole in the Nook ecosystem.

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keriflur
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

So there seems to be a disagreement on who Julie is.  Here's a refresher on who B&N sees her as:

 

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Community-Room/Julie-The-Average-Nook-Owner/m-p/1313019/highl...

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keriflur
Posts: 6,605
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

Emphasis mine:


LarryOnLI wrote:
I got her an iPad, she still uses her NOOK 1E for reading. She doesn't even buy her own books on the device. She tells me what I want and I buy it for her.

 


I'm sure this is a typo, but it made me chuckle nonetheless.  :smileyhappy:

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LarryOnLI
Posts: 1,998
Registered: ‎01-04-2010

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


keriflur wrote:

Emphasis mine:


LarryOnLI wrote:
I got her an iPad, she still uses her NOOK 1E for reading. She doesn't even buy her own books on the device. She tells me what I want and I buy it for her.

 


I'm sure this is a typo, but it made me chuckle nonetheless.  :smileyhappy:


More like a Freudian slip :smileywink:

 

Wordsmith
TnTexas
Posts: 884
Registered: ‎10-22-2011

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

Me: Maybe we're just disagreeing over terminology, though, since I pretty much agree with your last statement. My biggest objection is that I wouldn't classify all the "late adopters" who will be looking for a device for the first time as "Julies". Not all of them are fluffy-headed, timid creatures who are afraid of technology.

 

BruceMcF: Yes, we are disagreeing about terminology. I wouldn't see "Julies" as fluffy-headed, timid creatures afraid of tech

 

And I should hope that is not what B&N marketing things of that market segment, since if anyone in B&N's marketing department looks down on an important part of their customer base in that way, they ought to be fired. No way in hell could they market effectively to people who don't care all that much about the tech if they view that important market segment in such an arrogant and patronizing way.

 


From B&N's description of "Julie" (found at the link keriflur just provided):

 

For all the vagaries of the developer event,  Romanini (director of developer relations, Claudia Romanini) then delivered on some pretty amazing specifics on how the Nook is doing in the U.S.  .... She noted that at the moment “over 70 percent” of buyers of the Nook tablet are women aged between 25 and 45. .....  she says they know their tablet customer so well they have given her a name: Julie. “We know what Julie would like to buy and how to approach her.”

 

She says that “Julie” does not like to consume apps on phones because she is “a bit afraid of data consumption,” ..... She says that because of this mother/female focus, and the fact that the Android Market (now Google Play) is not very strong on female apps, B&N has put a big emphasis them in its Nook app store. One-third are children’s and education apps; one-third are games; and one-third are lifestyle apps covering areas like fashion, food, health, fitness and travel. “Basically, anything that would interest a woman,” she said.

 

I'm not sure how else to interpret that other than B&N sees Julie as being a rather timid, fluffy-headed sort who's a bit intimidated by technology.

 

************************************

 

LarryOnLl: I'm married to "Julie".....

 

Based on your description of your wife and B&N's description of "Julie", I wouldn't say you're married to a "Julie". Tech doesn't bore Julie; if the content's feminine enough, it can interest her. It just seems to intimidate and scare her a bit. 

 

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keriflur
Posts: 6,605
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

TnTexas wrote:

 

LarryOnLl: I'm married to "Julie".....

 

Based on your description of your wife and B&N's description of "Julie", I wouldn't say you're married to a "Julie". Tech doesn't bore Julie; if the content's feminine enough, it can interest her. It just seems to intimidate and scare her a bit. 

 


"Feminine" or "for the kids" it seems.

 

I'll say again (as I did in the linked thread), apps for kids are not apps for women, because that would be sexist and wrong.  And we know B&N would NEVER try to put their customers in nice little stereotypical, sexist cubby holes. </sarcasm>

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TnTexas
Posts: 884
Registered: ‎10-22-2011

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

keriflur: "Feminine" or "for the kids" it seems.

 

I'll say again (as I did in the linked thread), apps for kids are not apps for women, because that would be sexist and wrong.  And we know B&N would NEVER try to put their customers in nice little stereotypical,

sexist cubby holes. </sarcasm>

 

Ooops. My bad. How could I forget the kids? They're another reason she might work up the courage to dabble in the tech arena even though she finds it a rather intimidating and scary place. Good thing B&N is there to hold her hand and keep her from having a panic attack over it all. (Blech!) 

 

Totally agree with the cubby hole comment. 

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bobstro
Posts: 3,758
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


TnTexas wrote:

 .... She noted that at the moment “over 70 percent” of buyers of the Nook tablet are women aged between 25 and 45. .....  she says they know their tablet customer so well they have given her a name: Julie. “We know what Julie would like to buy and how to approach her.”


No doubt B&N's numbers are spot-on regarding the demographic of NOOK Tablet buyers, but the NT comprises less than 1% of the tablet market. Triple that and call it 3%, and I still don't think that is a big enough market to sustain a "Julie" focus when you take into account the bleed of Julies that wind up with a more featureful tablet, whether as a gift, status symbol, path of least resistance from friends and family, or an effective encounter at the Apple Genius Bar.

 

While 70% of NT tablet sales are Julies, I think the more pertinent question is whether more Julies ultimately buy NTs or a different device.

flyingtoastr
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


TnTexas wrote:

 

Because even Julies can grow and change and (as I mentioned in another post) eventually want more for their money - or their kids start demanding more. I guess a lot of it for me also boils down to the fact that as the world/our society becomes more digitlaized and technologically advanced and devices like smatphones and tablets become more common, I have a hard time seeing the fluffy-headed, scared-of-technology section of the market growing. Remaining the same size, perhaps. But not actively growing and becoming a larger and larger segment.

 


It amazes me how far this community has taken the "Julie" strawman...

 

Anyway, you're arguing that the "Julie" segment is, at some unspecified point in the future, decide that they want more from their devices. The major gaping hole in your logic is that, given that this is some time in the future, BN can adapt accordingly to grow with the segment, or even *gasp* go after other market segments as well.

 

You're right, the average consumer is going to change. But so can the devices BN makes.

flyingtoastr
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

bobstro wrote:

No doubt B&N's numbers are spot-on regarding the demographic of NOOK Tablet buyers, but the NT comprises less than 1% of the tablet market. Triple that and call it 3%, and I still don't think that is a big enough market to sustain a "Julie" focus when you take into account the bleed of Julies that wind up with a more featureful tablet, whether as a gift, status symbol, path of least resistance from friends and family, or an effective encounter at the Apple Genius Bar.

While 70% of NT tablet sales are Julies, I think the more pertinent question is whether more Julies ultimately buy NTs or a different device.


Given that middle aged women ("Julie") consume the vast plurality of content BN is selling (books) in the United States, they can quite effectively maintain a healthy income flow catering to the market, even if it is a small segment overall. 

 

It is the exact way BN's stores have been profitable, actually. Most Americans don't read (they'd rather let their talking screens tell them what to think), but there is a small segement ("power buyers") that spend inordinate amounts on books and actually end up supporting the entire market.

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keriflur
Posts: 6,605
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

[ Edited ]

flyingtoastr wrote:
Given that middle aged women ("Julie") consume the vast plurality of content BN is selling (books) in the United States, they can quite effectively maintain a healthy income flow catering to the market, even if it is a small segment overall. 

Aw, FT, 25-45 is NOT middle age. I know we seem old to you, but sheesh. :smileywink: 

flyingtoastr
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

I have trouble with age groups because everyone is old compared to me. 

 

XD

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bobstro
Posts: 3,758
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

Don't worry, FT. That problem takes care of itself.
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BruceMcF
Posts: 801
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


TnTexas wrote:


From B&N's description of "Julie" (found at the link keriflur just provided):

"We know what Julie would like to buy and how to approach her."

She says that "Julie" does not like to consume apps on phones because she is "a bit afraid of data consumption," ...

I'm not sure how else to interpret that other than B&N sees Julie as being a rather timid, fluffy-headed sort who's a bit intimidated by technology.


You are not sure what is the difference in describing real people in the real world as "a bit afraid of data consumption", and describing them as "rather timid, fluffy-headed sort who's a bit intimidated by technology"? Really?

 

The most striking difference would be the introduction of "rather timid, fluffy-headed sort" that does not exist in the original statement. I've taught people who could be described as "a bit afraid of data consumption" for years in career colleges, and I can assure you that your assumption that they are universally timid and fluffy-headed is a bullshit assumption. It doesn't stand up to real world experience.

 

The challenge for B&N in holding a sustainable niche in that particular market segment is more in the part that you seemed to have deliberately ignored than in the part you projected your own stereotypes into:


"... and because of that B&N has found a good way to market apps to her: by making them free when she is in the store to try them out."


What the marketer is doing in the quoted remarks, of course, is making a sales pitch, trying to sell B&N to developers as a way to reach market segments that are otherwise harder to reach, and so they naturally put the brightest spin on it that they can. However, the customer base that can be sold to in the B&N store itself is only the kernel of a sustainable market: B&N has to leverage that customer base into a broader market profile.

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patgolfneb
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Registered: ‎09-10-2011
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

Bruce, you state that the in store market, although I don't remember it being limited to in store, is only the kernel of a sustainable market. Isn't this a pretty significant niche? Beyond that I feel there have been as many companies that fail because of an overly broad or undefined target group as opposed to an overly narrow target group. I think the jury is still out on the success of BN's marketing strategy. This is part of why I think BN would be unperturbed if the modder and users focused on the most advanced features moved on. Meeting their constantly increasing expectations is not the way they intend to compete I feel.
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bobstro
Posts: 3,758
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


flyingtoastr wrote:

[...] Given that middle aged women ("Julie") consume the vast plurality of content BN is selling (books) in the United States, they can quite effectively maintain a healthy income flow catering to the market, even if it is a small segment overall. 

 

It is the exact way BN's stores have been profitable, actually. Most Americans don't read (they'd rather let their talking screens tell them what to think), but there is a small segement ("power buyers") that spend inordinate amounts on books and actually end up supporting the entire market.


FT, are you describing "Julie" buying print books, or ebooks? No doubt, there's a core of dedicated buyers that like the book buying experience in a store. My question, though, is whether most "Julies" have any sort of reader at all. If not, and if that number is not growing, doesn't that bode poorly for the B&N NOOK approach? I have no data either way, so I'm genuinely asking.

 

I don't see how catering to a wider market means abandoning "Julie" in some way. I think, done right, B&N can expand the number of potential customers coming into their (for now, unique among ereader) brick & mortar stores. For example, if the B&N Android app provided the Read-in-Store feature, isn't that a good way to draw people in to your counter and possibly grow the "e-Julie" market?

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roustabout
Posts: 3,619
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

Someone rumored to be a BN employee chooses to forgo Bayesian inference with "some time in the future, BN can adapt accordingly to grow with the segment, or even *gasp* go after other market segments as well."

 

Well played, sir, well played! 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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keriflur
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Re: So about Google Nexus 7...

Has anyone else noticed how heavily the Nexus 7 is advertised on this site? I've seen the ads here in the forums a number of times, and just saw another one when shopping for a book. 

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Ya_Ya
Posts: 3,334
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: So about Google Nexus 7...


keriflur wrote:

Aw, FT, 25-45 is NOT middle age. I know we seem old to you, but sheesh. :smileywink: 


As much as we don't want to admit it, 35, really is middle-aged.  45 definitely is.  25, not so much.

 

(Says 36, almost 37, not really wanting to think about that....)