Reply
Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,522
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

I must've missed a "... poorly" in there somewhere. :smileyhappy:

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,118
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,312
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

[ Edited ]

catarific wrote:

We actually do not own the books just the license to read the book.  Same goes for graphics that are purchased online.  When you purchase virtual art, you are paying for its use with certain restrictions. Such as adding the copyright to the image when used, how you can use the image (coloration, etc.), size of the image, etc.  That is why when you buy a hard copy of anything, that is yours.  But virtual ownership is a different ballgame.


When you buy a physical book, the paper, ink, and binding are yours, but the words are not.  In the case of physical books, the words are sufficiently bound to the physical media that court decisions have allowed a pretty liberal license with regard to transfer of "license" (of the words) along with transfer of "ownership" (of the physical media).  However, there still are restrictions as to usage.

 

Virtual ownership is hard to grasp for some.  On many Internet forums (including this one), I occasionally see someone quote an entire online article (potential copyright violation) rather than link to it, and rarely do I see an objection voiced.  On those rare occasions, I frequently hear the retort "fair use", which usually means "I wanted to".

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Wordsmith
BruceMcF
Posts: 766
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color


keriflur wrote:

BruceMcF wrote:

bobstro wrote:

Don't go thinking anything stored in B&N's cloud actually belongs to you in any way. It doesn't.


This can be generalized ~ don't go thinking that anything stored in ANYBODY'S cloud actually belongs to you. The same goes for digital movies "bought" on vudu, sync'd to a UV and able to be downloaded or streamed (for those with unrooted NC's) using a Flixster sync'd to that same UV account.

 

For the ebooks, if you have a PC, it makes good sense to periodically download all of your Nook book purchases to the PC.


Not 100% accurate.  If I sign up for cloud storage and upload my own files, those are my files, through and through.  Yes, they can be lost, etc., but they do belong to me.


For example, a popular site for playing with and sharing pictures just recently updated their terms of use to allow them to make use of the images stored on their system by any users for the site's own commercial purposes.

 

It is necessary to distinguish the work and the copy of the work ~ if you created a work, then you have the right under copyright to say who can and who cannot make a copy of that work and under what terms. What is stored in the cloud is a copy of some work, and all sorts of strange agreements regarding those copies can be hidden in the Terms and Conditions of Use ~ and with notice, added or modified, under the premise that if notice of the change is given, you consent to the change regarding your own original works if you do not delete those copies.

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

Dean, the Internet has sort of given people that freedom. To do whatever they want and then claim things like fair use.

 

I think it's the lack of accountability. So it allows people to do a little bit of wishful thinking and push things into the 'how we would like things to be' zone.

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,182
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color


BruceMcF wrote:

keriflur wrote:

BruceMcF wrote:

bobstro wrote:

Don't go thinking anything stored in B&N's cloud actually belongs to you in any way. It doesn't.


This can be generalized ~ don't go thinking that anything stored in ANYBODY'S cloud actually belongs to you. The same goes for digital movies "bought" on vudu, sync'd to a UV and able to be downloaded or streamed (for those with unrooted NC's) using a Flixster sync'd to that same UV account.

 

For the ebooks, if you have a PC, it makes good sense to periodically download all of your Nook book purchases to the PC.


Not 100% accurate.  If I sign up for cloud storage and upload my own files, those are my files, through and through.  Yes, they can be lost, etc., but they do belong to me.


For example, a popular site for playing with and sharing pictures just recently updated their terms of use to allow them to make use of the images stored on their system by any users for the site's own commercial purposes.

 

It is necessary to distinguish the work and the copy of the work ~ if you created a work, then you have the right under copyright to say who can and who cannot make a copy of that work and under what terms. What is stored in the cloud is a copy of some work, and all sorts of strange agreements regarding those copies can be hidden in the Terms and Conditions of Use ~ and with notice, added or modified, under the premise that if notice of the change is given, you consent to the change regarding your own original works if you do not delete those copies.


And this is why it's important to always read ToS before uploading your content. I just read through a ToS today for a cloud service I was interested in. I don't ever upload creative content to sites whose ToS is suspect, in the case of Facebook, blatantly offensive. 

 

If there is a paid cloud storage solution that takes rights on upload (like Facebook does), I don't know of it. 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,522
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color


keriflur wrote:

[...] And this is why it's important to always read ToS before uploading your content. I just read through a ToS today for a cloud service I was interested in. I don't ever upload creative content to sites whose ToS is suspect, in the case of Facebook, blatantly offensive. 

If there is a paid cloud storage solution that takes rights on upload (like Facebook does), I don't know of it. 


I'm certainly no lawyer, but my understanding is that the service provider can change the ToS at whim, and there's little one can do but quit using them. If I'm concerned about anything I put in the cloud, I encrypt it on my end before putting it up there.

 

Getting a bit off topic, but the SpiderOak cloud storage solution is interesting. Their entire operation is based on stuff being encrypted before it's uploaded, and they don't have the key. In other words, they couldn't read your files if they wanted to (or were ordered to). Everything I'm finding on them is positive. 

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,118
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,312
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color


keriflur wrote:

And this is why it's important to always read ToS before uploading your content. I just read through a ToS today for a cloud service I was interested in. I don't ever upload creative content to sites whose ToS is suspect, in the case of Facebook, blatantly offensive. 

 

If there is a paid cloud storage solution that takes rights on upload (like Facebook does), I don't know of it. 

 


Given the history of Facebook:

 

  1. Software that was incredibly buggy, with a broken search engine.
  2. A design that didn't understand the concept of "circles of friends", something every teenager understands.
  3. Its Terms of Service.
  4. Criminal actions surrounding the IPO.

 

I finally deleted all my content on Facebook in August.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

Dean, I deleted my Facebook account too. Even deleting it is a pain - they make you go through so much effort just to find it and if you accidentally login they just get all that information back.

 

*****

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

This whole Instagram fiasco Keriflur mentioned i.e.

 

*****

For example, a popular site for playing with and sharing pictures just recently updated their terms of use to allow them to make use of the images stored on their system by any users for the site's own commercial purposes.

*****

 

It's all typical Facebook thinking.

 

The whole logic for some web companies is to harvest user information and then treat users like cattle to be prodded and probed and fed advertising and commands.

 

It's really sad that this is what most technology companies are reduced to.

 

*****

 

It's almost like a game

 

- Companies luring users with 'free things' and in return grabbing/stealing all their information.

- Users being somewhat aware of what is going on and still thinking they can outsmart the companies

 

You should read about this company called RapLeaf - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapleaf

 

There's basically a never ending slushpile of Internet 'Advertising' and 'Targeted Advertising' companies doing murkier and murkier things. Tracking users and storing personally identifiable information and even creating entire user profiles and selling them to people.

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,182
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color


bobstro wrote:

keriflur wrote:

[...] And this is why it's important to always read ToS before uploading your content. I just read through a ToS today for a cloud service I was interested in. I don't ever upload creative content to sites whose ToS is suspect, in the case of Facebook, blatantly offensive. 

If there is a paid cloud storage solution that takes rights on upload (like Facebook does), I don't know of it. 


I'm certainly no lawyer, but my understanding is that the service provider can change the ToS at whim, and there's little one can do but quit using them. If I'm concerned about anything I put in the cloud, I encrypt it on my end before putting it up there.

 

Getting a bit off topic, but the SpiderOak cloud storage solution is interesting. Their entire operation is based on stuff being encrypted before it's uploaded, and they don't have the key. In other words, they couldn't read your files if they wanted to (or were ordered to). Everything I'm finding on them is positive. 


They can change the ToS at whim, but they have to tell you when they do so.

 

I just read through SpiderOak's legal docs and they look interesting.  I signed up for an account and am going to try them out.  I've been using Sugarsync, which I'm mostly happy with, and iDrive, which I'm dumping in favor of Cubby (it's by the Logmein folks, who have great reviews and understand security, and prices are really good right now because it's in a nice, long beta).  SpiderOak is cheaper than SugarSync, and the encrypted password thing is nice, so I may have to switch over to them for that.

Distinguished Scribe
NookGardener
Posts: 945
Registered: ‎05-21-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color


bobstro wrote:

I normally would be chiming along with the "your device will still work" crowd were it not for my experience with my NST. Now I have to qualify that with "depending on how you use it." I was happily subscribed to Discover and Popular Science specifically so I could read them at home on my NC and, while at the beach and great outdoors, on my NST. With no warning -- at least to me -- both quit downloading to my NST, and it was only after poking around on the product pages that I realized that the NST was no longer a supported device for those publications. To make things worse, the old NST-friendly back issues were no longer available on my NST.

 

So yes, while the device will still work, there's no guarantee the content you want, or that you have purchased for it, will remain available for it. Don't go thinking anything stored in B&N's cloud actually belongs to you in any way. It doesn't. They can "upgrade" cloud content to formats that might not work on your device. I can see the argument that the publisher determines format, but that doesn't explain the back issues.

 

Fortunately for me, I've quit using my NST solely for B&N content, so I have no problem filling it with other things. With a few contortions, I can even read those magazines on it using Mantano Reader.

 

While I don't see any indication that B&N is about to do any such thing to the NC, I don't see any guarantees that it won't, either.

 

The NC is still a great device, though definitely long in the tooth now. It may not remain a great device for B&N content, ironically, depending on how highly (or lowly) customers rank in the priority list.


bobstro -  Thanks for the heads up on this! At a minimum, B&N should be sending out an email notification that the particular subscription is no longer going to be available on such and such device as of xxx date.  And why in the world can't you access previously purchased issues? 

Mark_OB1
Posts: 1,574
Topics: 23
Kudos: 1,358
Registered: ‎12-14-2010

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

bobstro commented:

 

> I was happily subscribed to Discover and Popular Science specifically so I could read them at home on my NC and, while at the beach and great outdoors, on my NST. With no warning -- at least to me -- both quit downloading to my NST, and it was only after poking around on the product pages that I realized that the NST was no longer a supported device for those publications. To make things worse, the old NST-friendly back issues were no longer available on my NST. <

 

I can see why you would find this disturbing, Bob.  To me, it's completely unacceptable.

 

However, in this case, I don't see how you can blame either B&N or the device.  The problem lies with whatever company is publishing the magazines in question.

 

Have you contacted them and let them know that you are unhappy with their policies, and lack of support for paying customers?  They are the only ones that can correct this problem, and the users/customers are the only ones who can exert their influence to effect change.

 

Roustabout writes this off as a natural tendency to not want to support too many different formats, for certain types of content.  I'd characterize it as a willingness to drop support for customers, and based solely on sloth.  This media exists in digital format (obviously) and could be trivially post-processed (and automated) to be usable on lower-rez screens.  Someone just doesn't feel like bothering.

 

- Mark

 

DeanGibson
Posts: 2,118
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,312
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

[ Edited ]

Mark_OB1 wrote:
...

 

I can see why you would find this disturbing, Bob.  To me, it's completely unacceptable.

 

However, in this case, I don't see how you can blame either B&N or the device.  The problem lies with whatever company is publishing the magazines in question.


 


Legally, you bought the subscription from B&N, not the publisher.  If you were so crazy to sue someone (and had the money to do so) over this issue, you would recover your "damages" from B&N, and not the publisher.

 

The same goes for passing the buck on application software issues.  While it is reasonable to ask the user to contact the developer for support, ultimately the liability is B&N's.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
New User
LauriBear
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-22-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

Went to BN yesterday to purchase a charger. I was told they are not making them any longer. The home office had sent a box of chargers to each store and when they are gone, there will be no more. They gave me one from their "box" free. This is how they phase out the color, hoping you will upgrade to the newest model. If you can no longer buy parts, then you'll upgrade is the typical marketing plan.
Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,522
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Venting on Discontinuation of Nook Color

It will charge, albeit slowly (10%/hour) on a high output (~2A) charger with a regular microUSB cable. Faster if you have the NOOK color cable. On the new models, you're definitely screwed without their cable. Proprietary charging cables are definitely one of the top ways companies drive planned obsolescence.