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Mercury_Glitch
Posts: 1,379
Registered: ‎06-07-2011
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Re: What does Nook need to do to survive?


deesy58 wrote:

Mercury_Glitch wrote:

Wulfraed wrote:

Mercury_Glitch wrote:Charging kiosks, where you pay 'x' amount to charge your Nook for a given time.  And before anyone says 'you should let us charge it for free!' no.  That's something the drives the stores cost of operation up which puts more pressure to make money but in itself generates very little.  And I'm not saying charge high prices, maybe 2 dollars an hour.  That would let you fully charge your Nook for 6 bucks.  It's not something you might need to do every day but for those times when you get caught it would be nice.  Break it in to 1$ for every half hour just to give some flexibility.  Don't charge tax or a service fee so it's a nice easy transaction. 

 


You're going to have to do a massive change to my current local B&N store then...

 

The cafe area is loaded with tables adjacent to power outlets where folk come in with laptops and similar to study.

 

And given that local electric charges are about 15 cents per kWh, and a 1st Edition battery is rated for 4.6Wh, assuming a 50% efficient charger and rounding up makes 10Wh, or less than 2/10th of a penny for the electricity itself.  Why would I pay $2/hour for your charging station if I could pay $2.50 for a large cup of tea in the cafe and plug in to an outlet near my table. {Heck, I actually lifted the brass lid of a power outlet in my mall's main hallway, outside the B&N, and charge my laptop there... Security's only concern was the power cable -- they moved a side-table over to cover the outlet and my power cord -- no comment on my using a quarter to unscrew the cover to the outlet}

 


 

Adjust the price.

 

Stop giving out free electricity. 

 

The store has now become more profitable even if no one uses the kiosk.  The people who don't return likely bought a single coffee and sat all day at a table, preventing anyone else from using it.  The rest will be back, even if they grumble for a bit about the change. 

 

That means more cafe sales.  And no one using our electricity for their cell phones, their laptops, their tablets, etc. etc. 

 

And I am sure people will complain and try to get around it.  We had one guy use a fork to try and pry the cover off one of the outlets.  Mind you the fork was metal.  We asked that he leave. 

 


Give away the free electricity as long as the customers are really customers (not homeless people trying to stay warm).  The electricty is cheap -- really cheap, and B&N needs to retain all the customers it can.  It's hard to imagine a less expensive marketing tactic that would boost customer loyalty. 

 

It isn't a contest, it's a business! 


 

I think just from reading the recent posts in this thread from Dean, FT, Wulfraed, and myself that it should be pretty clear that the people who were actually using the electricty were not really customers.  Buying a single small plain coffee and using that to sit for half of the hours the store is open does not a customer make. 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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PlanetGreen
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Survival is guaranteed

[ Edited ]

flyingtoastr wrote:

thans56 wrote:
Well if they are going to compete in the movies dept they need to step up their game. Did a side by side test today between nook hd plus and kindle fire hd. Downloaded the same exact movie with readers side by side. Same distance from wifi and high speed internet. When kindle finished download the nook was only at fifty percent. Took nook another thirty mins to finish download. Kindle with prime has free movies. Nook has no free movies and nothing like prime. I won't compare number of moviess it woulndnt be fair. Amazons been at thegame longer.

Prime Instant Video is not free, it's $80 a year for a pale imitation of Netflix.

 

Another lesson in how good Amazon's spin department is.


$79 or about $6.50 month no tax. And while Netflix rules, (great, hip, cool CS as well) they charge tax, so its like $8.80 month.

 

And no, prime does not pale in comparison, Amazon prime movies are catching up, and its a great service, with much of the same content. Usually.

 

And prime gets you free 2 day UPS and $3.99 overnight, $2.99 kindle freetime monthly, and a book a month to borrow free + more. So PLEASE STOP THE NONSENSE.

 

BN is like a stuffy shirt that smells of mothballs, and you pick the lint out of it. Netflix and Amazon, (lesser extent itunes) are cool, hip, mofos, young english speaking, rad and easy to deal with. Their solutions to your problems is to give you cash and credits. (TRUTH). Because this will always make you happy. "Oh, Im so sorry, how about a free month ?"

 

BN needs to lighten up and get hip wit da kids. Not all you old farts who's idea of fun converse is who is sueing who. litigation, And how to save on electricity.(omg)

 

And lets not forget, Oh, OMG, where are my shelves !

 

(no offence intended to anyone who fits the bill, this post is safe for the environment)

It's a small world afterall except when your far away.
flyingtoastr
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


PlanetGreen wrote:

And no, prime does not pale in comparison, Amazon prime movies are catching up, and its a great service, with much of the same content. Usually.


Really now. I'm gonna do your favorite thing and just compare random titles in a vaccuum.

 

Walking Dead: free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

Mad Men: Free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

Breaking Bad: Free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

30 Rock: Free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

The Grey: Free on Netflix - $9.99 on Amazon

Arrested Development - New episodes not even going to be available on Amazon

 

Now, you usually insert some comment about how BN is run by idiots, so pretend I'm inserting asinine comments about Bezos here.

Wordsmith
PlanetGreen
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

[ Edited ]

flyingtoastr wrote:

PlanetGreen wrote:

And no, prime does not pale in comparison, Amazon prime movies are catching up, and its a great service, with much of the same content. Usually.


Really now. I'm gonna do your favorite thing and just compare random titles in a vaccuum.

 

Walking Dead: free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

Mad Men: Free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

Breaking Bad: Free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

30 Rock: Free on Netflix - $2.99/episode on Amazon

The Grey: Free on Netflix - $9.99 on Amazon

Arrested Development - New episodes not even going to be available on Amazon

 

Now, you usually insert some comment about how BN is run by idiots, so pretend I'm inserting asinine comments about Bezos here.


Listen,

 

I love Netflix.

 

I love Amazon.

 

I love BN.

 

Ok ? :smileywink: And $2.99 is for the HD, so its $1.99 SD

 

Their all like a warm blanket and chicken soup when your sick, you can curl up and drift away in their lala land. Nothin wrong with that.

 

And when you get over your cold, if a movie stutters, you'll get a bonus free month for the helluvit :smileywink:

 

I just wish BN would get HIP, that's all. maybe they need a few 8 yo's in charge. And thats the answer to this thread, what do they need to do>? GET HIP. And if your saying to yourself, what the heck does that mean, well, it means your not hip.

 

Times are a changin you old farts. It aint all about FOX books anymore. Why the heck would I travel to sit on a dirty couch and drink coffee, when I can do that from my semi-dirty couch now at home, on this lil device?

 

Maybe in truth its almost time to let the stores go entirely. Just, let go. And for those of you who truly like to carry your bodies around to physical stores and absorb flu germs, well, dunno what to tell you. You may have to adapt, and get a flu shot.

It's a small world afterall except when your far away.
flyingtoastr
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


PlanetGreen wrote:

Ok ? :smileywink: And $2.99 is for the HD, so its $1.99 SD

 


Netflix streams HD so long as you have the bandwidth to support it. So it's a fair comparison.

Wordsmith
PlanetGreen
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


flyingtoastr wrote:

PlanetGreen wrote:

Ok ? :smileywink: And $2.99 is for the HD, so its $1.99 SD

 


Netflix streams HD so long as you have the bandwidth to support it. So it's a fair comparison.


I have both, and they each have diff stuff. Jeez, it's so worth it.

 

You've got to have an ecosystem that will fulfill its user/inhabitant :smileywink: If not the creatures, er customers will die out, haha.

 

What if earth didnt have wood, and mars did. Then you'd have to go to Amazon, mars for your wood. What if Netflix, Venus gave you MP3's, wood for free monthly (or $7.99). ?

 

What would you do?

 

So, yea, the lame brains at BN need to get HIP, and HOP to it ! And somehow integrate those big ol ugly cement buildings into the equation, or drop em all for good.

 

 

It's a small world afterall except when your far away.
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EllenKeiff
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎06-05-2011

Re: What does Nook need to do to survive?

If I had a boatload of money I'd buy majority share of the stock :smileyvery-happy:  Then we'd see who I would vote for staying lol!

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


PlanetGreen wrote:

flyingtoastr wrote:

PlanetGreen wrote:

Ok ? :smileywink: And $2.99 is for the HD, so its $1.99 SD

 


Netflix streams HD so long as you have the bandwidth to support it. So it's a fair comparison.


I have both, and they each have diff stuff. Jeez, it's so worth it.

 

You've got to have an ecosystem that will fulfill its user/inhabitant :smileywink: If not the creatures, er customers will die out, haha.

 

What if earth didnt have wood, and mars did. Then you'd have to go to Amazon, mars for your wood. What if Netflix, Venus gave you MP3's, wood for free monthly (or $7.99). ?

 

What would you do?

 

So, yea, the lame brains at BN need to get HIP, and HOP to it ! And somehow integrate those big ol ugly cement buildings into the equation, or drop em all for good.

 

 


 

 

Except both Netflix and Amazon have 'wood', Amazon just charges you to get to that wood. 

 

FT already pointed out examples. 

 

Amazon is clearly run by idiots who are incapable of seeing the light of day.

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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bobstro
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

[ Edited ]

I've apparently missed some fun the last few days, but regarding Amazon & Netflix comparisons: Aren't those CURRENT episodes, where Netflix will let you view last season's? When my sons come to visit, we usually wind up spending some with Amazon for the current season, even though we have Netflix.

 

Anybody old enough to remember how hip the dot-com bubble was? Free stuff! Yeah!

flyingtoastr
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

[ Edited ]

bobstro wrote:

I've apparently missed some fun the last few days, but regarding Amazon & Netflix comparisons: Aren't those CURRENT episodes, where Netflix will let you view last season's? When my sons come to visit, we usually wind up spending some with Amazon for the current season, even though we have Netflix.

 

Anybody old enough to remember how hip the dot-com bubble was? Free stuff! Yeah!


Depends on the show. A lot of networks (especially a certain popular cable network) aren't doing next-day-digital anymore, but making people wait until the physical version is released.

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BruceMcF
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


PlanetGreen wrote:

Ok ? :smileywink: And $2.99 is for the HD, so its $1.99 SD


Both of which I find quite steep for a TV episode that I am likely only going to watch once. When I want a downloadable episode, what I most often really want is a rental, because I want to watch the episode and am going to be away from WiFi. If you have a portable DVD player, you can get a Redbox rental of a movie for $1/day, its silly to have to pay $2-$3 for a TV episode. $3 is steep even for someone who is buying a series they are going to watch multiple times.

 

Now, I understand that isn't Amazon's schtick. They aren't aiming to serve me, they are aiming to be the hip kids serving the hip kids (well, except of course for recurrent discrimination against gays and lesbians, which I was given to understand in other quarters is supposed to be more common amongst us old farts and not the way that the cool kids are supposed to act).

 

But it would be neat if someone did.

 

Of course, there is a difference between strategy and execution. B&N need to lift their game in terms of speed and quality in things like app rollout ~ for instance, the Nook Video app for Android ought to be out now, and there should have been a browser portal where one can see all of the content presently available and at what cost, before Christmas, and they should have fixed the shelves thing long ago, and etc. and etc.

 

But while they are trying to do their execution as well as Amazon does, they also need to be targeting market niches that are not at the heart of Amazon's market niches, since if their strategy is to just imitate Amazon's strategy, they will also be running to catch up.

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5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

This is so true:

 

*****

But while they are trying to do their execution as well as Amazon does, they also need to be targeting market niches that are not at the heart of Amazon's market niches, since if their strategy is to just imitate Amazon's strategy, they will also be running to catch up.

*****

 

I'm often left wondering exactly what B&N's strategy is. Any one have any thoughts?

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Anonymous-Coward
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎12-10-2009

Re: Survival is guaranteed

This is a bit long - I've been dwelling on this very question for some time.

 

I own four Nooks - Original, Tablet, Simple & HD.  I pre-ordered the original and the HD.  I was a big Nook fan - but now I'm considering dropping BN.  I'm already limiting purchases to things I'm willing to take a loss on if I drop BN or BN goes bust.  Perhaps my reasons provide some insight into BNs sales woes.

 

1) Locking down vs. opening up.  Openness is a low bar in this market, but Nook was segment leader and that was working for BN - BN should extend and hype openness.  BN needs to recognize they can have some of my business, or none of my business - getting all my business is not an option.  If it feels like BN decision making or "terms of service" have the goal of locking me into BN then I will choose a larger ecosystem 100% of the time. Apple, Amazon and Google are all larger ecosystems (or likely to become so over time) so BN wouldn't even be in the running in a 'closed system' race.

 

2) Favoring BN over customers in core platform. Locking down is one example, but lots of other terms in the relationship can be balanced or biased - consider privacy terms; ownership rights; resale - including ownership transfer within families such as to children as they become adults or as part of an estate; liability;  payment terms, etc.  So many terms of service today are biased to providers and/or rest on unsettled law (an advantage to providers who can afford to litigate). Again BN leads over a low bar, but they still have a lot of room to be the "good guys" in this unsettled new "e-stuff" world.

 

3) Am I the last consumer on earth who wants it to be hard to pay for something? When my money is being spent, I want to approve explicitly each purchase.  Requring password for purchase should be a prominent account option, not a hard to find device specific option (and not even an option on reader for Android).  Possession (lost, stolen or in the hands of one's children) should *never* be sufficient to authorize a charge . BN could be a leader here - give parents prominent and very strong protection against unexpected or unauthorized charges (including in-app charges).  Parents will choose Nook, and children brought up on Nook (esp. if assets can be transferred) will likely stay with Nook.

 

4) The MS partnership.  I think BN needs to get out from under the risk of being perceived as potentially using MS technology in core Nook.  I believe for a lot of people MS is toxic, a technology laggard, and bring nothing desiarble to the table and plenty to dislike.  I could really use some strong assurance that core Nook will stay open (more Android, less lockdown, no MS). A better Nook reader for Windows is a fine thing, but MS technology in core Nook would put me off entirely.  My relationship with BN is on hold until I know for sure where this is going - but with no major releases announced it's hard to assess what's really happening.

 

If BN folds it will be consumers unanswered fears that drove them there - fears that BN won't stay the "better option", the "good guy", the underdog who makes good.  The fear that BN will act just like their giant competition (or their new parnter). The fear that no one really knows how the law will treat our e-stuff if BN folds and has to shut down their servers - do we own what we bought or were we only renting after all?  The fear that MS influence will ruin Nook. The fear of being made a fool for investing in a loser.  Is BN doing anything to address these fears?

 

I feel like BN used to have a "good guy" philosophy and strategy, but I just don't see that anymore.  I don''t see a compelling vision of why BN is better for me as a consumer. I do see plenty of fears that BN/Nook will be worse (smaller, slower, less open, MS-centric, failing in the market).  BN needs an unassailable answer to the question "why is BN better than the big three?".  Until I have the answer to that question I'm in limbo.

 

DeanGibson
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


Anonymous-Coward wrote:....  Until I have the answer to that question I'm in limbo.

 


You are not the only one;  I have eBooks on my wish list that would have been purchased by now, except for the fact that I fear where B&N is going (and I don't mean Microsoft influence).  I'm not talking about policy;  I'm talking about execution (you can consider that to have a double meaning).

 

As for Microsoft changing B&N's direction:  That's just not how Microsoft works in cases like this.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
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5ivedom
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

I see Microsoft as a big positive, actually.

 

1) It gives B&N (or to be precise, Nook Media LLC) more financial runway.

 

2) If B&N does switch to Windows 8 it'll get an ecosystem that might in a few years be better than every other ecosystem.

 

I've looked at the Windows 8 Store and there are slowly good apps showing up.

Also, as a developer, the calibre of developers that make apps for Windows is MUCH higher than any other ecosystem. People forget that huge companies and lots of very very good developers are 100% Windows.

 

2b) Windows Ecosystem is so big, and Windows 8 ecosystem is going to become so big that there's no option for developers other than to join.

 

So, if B&N does switch to Windows 8 you'll lose all the openness and lots of free apps aspect of Android. However, you'll gain the massive Windows ecosystem.

 

And sooner or later every developer will have to go there. It's hundreds of millions of people on Windows.

 

Windows 8 has just 2.37% or so market penetration right now and already the number of downloads is quite high (supposedly hundreds of thousands of downloads a day for free apps).

 

*****

 

3) If (and it is a big IF) Microsoft helps B&N then B&N can really expand.

 

Some examples:

 

Microsoft sells in hundreds of countries.

Microsoft has so many retail partners and it's setting up its own stores (as is Google).

 

*****

 

*****

 

Ecosystem.

 

Yes, I think it's pretty obvious that B&N has to expand to compete.

 

Windows is its best option because Apple isn't available and Google and Amazon are direct competitors in Books and Movies and Devices.

 

I think it would be madness to not go with a bigger ecosystem. But what realistic options does B&N have?

 

Microsoft is the only company that would, perhaps, be willing to create a version of its ecosystem that allows access to apps but rules out other ebook readers (only on Nook Tablets) and movie stores.

 

*****

 

The lack of certainty is a big thing.

 

It's interesting that no one knows what's going to happen with Nook. There are lots of risks and there's always the possibility that Microsoft (Surface) and Samsung really get their act together and then suddenly the space for Nook becomes even smaller.

 

*****

 

A Nook Hardware Tablet with Windows 8 ecosystem OR Android ecosystem - would be a winner. Easily.

 

However, which of Microsoft or Google would be willing to let B&N preserve its book and movies income streams?

 

*****

 

I think B&N will continue with its own ecosystem and also introduce a Windows 8 based Tablet (7"). Then it'll pick the winner (which will, most probably, be the Windows 8 Based Tablet).

 

Android is a no-go because Android is allergic to profits.

 

The only companies that are making money from Android are Samsung (which is actually moving away from Android, and which is very unAndroid in lots of ways) and Microsoft ($5 per device for deals it has struck for patent protection).

 

I think we'll see more and more companies move away from Android. Android isn't really a profit machine for companies using it (apart from Samsung). Plus all the patent headaches.

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patgolfneb
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

The hard part to predict is the degree to which phones drive the app market. Are tablet apps going to develop as a basically separate market or continue to have a large degree of crossover. At some point the larger size of tablets allows cpu and battery power impossible to justify in a phone.

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bobstro
Posts: 3,718
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Survival is guaranteed

[ Edited ]

patgolfneb wrote:

[...] At some point the larger size of tablets allows cpu and battery power impossible to justify in a phone.

 

A couple of years ago, I would have thought the same thing. My company just shipped me a phone with:

 

  • 720x1280 AMOLED screen resolution
  • 32 G internal storage
  • 802.11a/b/g/n
  • bluetooth
  • 8 megapixel rear camera/1.3 mp rear
  • dual-core 1.5 GHz cpu
  • 3,000 mAH battery

The thing is more powerful than my Samusng tablet from last year, including better battery life, not to mention 4G and all the phone stuff. Does it make sense for a company to produce a different phone device, when the same innards can power everything from a 4 inch phone to a 10 inch tablet?

 

Phones definitely lead in numbers of sales, so I think primary development for a lot of apps will still target phones, or at least be phone & tablet compatible. Android makes developing for both relatively easy, so any company considering both would certainly want to take advantage of those features.

 

It seems to me the distinction between phone and tablet is blurring as tablets get smaller and phones get bigger. While Microsoft might dominate on the desktop for some years to come, and gain a foothold in the tablet market, the phone market is where the big, big numbers are. The top player there isn't likely to fade away any time soon.

 

I wonder if we're overdue for another paradigm shift. Does it really make sense to carry so many devices with so much overlap in functionality? I wonder if what we need to do is de-link the display from the cpu, memory and network functions. Use an outdoor readable display where it makes sense, switch to a hi-res color display for watching movies, then pick up a small phone display on the way out the door.

 

 

 

flyingtoastr
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Re: Survival is guaranteed

The only major stumbling block to BN going Windows is just how much licences cost for the OS. There's a reason the cheapest Win8 Tablet is $500.

 

Not to mention it's a pretty massive middle finger to all their current customers and developers.

DeanGibson
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


bobstro wrote:

patgolfneb wrote:

[...] At some point the larger size of tablets allows cpu and battery power impossible to justify in a phone.

 

A couple of years ago, I would have thought the same thing. ...

 


Well, every Android app I have that I run on my Android v4.0 tablet, also runs just fine on my Motorola original Droid (Android v2.2) phone.  Further, all the apps run on my various sized screens with no problem, automatically scaled as necessary.

 

I remember some complaints when the new Nook HD/HD+ was released, about handing the "new" screen sizes, but when does a developer code to a specific screen size (at least, after the original IBM VGA 640x480 screens)???

 

You are correct;  most apps will be developed for the smaller phone screen sizes (that's where the market is), and rely on scaling on the bigger tablets.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
DeanGibson
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Re: Survival is guaranteed


flyingtoastr wrote:

The only major stumbling block to BN going Windows is just how much licences cost for the OS. There's a reason the cheapest Win8 Tablet is $500.

 

Not to mention it's a pretty massive middle finger to all their current customers and developers.


While there are some increased hardware costs due to the CPUs used, I think that you have missed the not-so subtle change in the real-life purpose of these forums:  Despite your best efforts, they are for rampant speculation, based on a firm footing in fantasy and hope.

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.