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Wordsmith
TnTexas
Posts: 883
Registered: ‎10-22-2011

Re: Management saw the Nook Color and executed pretty well on what they learned

roustabout: Real tablets are eating that claim for lunch, I think even at Julie's house.

 

Yes. I don't think Julie's nearly as intimidated by the tech world as B&N seems to think she is.

 

Apps aren't nice also-haves in the tablet space for most folks, and never really were.  They've been must-haves throughout;  it's why the Nook Color being rooted made it a useful and interesting device. BN has never understood this and still resists it, talking feebly about a reading-centered experience.

 

And according to some long-standing complaints, B&N hasn't done a very good job with that experience either.

 

*****************************

 

Me: Speaking of the Nook Video Store, can it only be accessed via one of the HD tablets? I ask because with my PC, I could only locate 1 page for it, and that page only has 35 videos listed. Surely there's more to the store than that.

 

BruceMcF: As far as I understand, it can only be accessed from the HD tablets until they start releasing their other apps/channels.

 

Me: That's what I was assuming. Wonder whose brilliant idea that was. Sigh.

 

BruceMcF: A marketing team that doesn't understand marketing in the "look it up on google" age. They ought to have a web page that shows all of their content, as soon as its available, and make it easy for their market to find them.

 

But given that they do not even make it easy to find books for people who own their devices hooked straight into their online bookstore, its not surprising that they do not understand the benefits of making it easy for your market to find you.

 

That's one of the biggest puzzlers about B&N to me. How can a marketing team not get that in today's day and age? Do they not use the internet in their own lives or something?

 

 

DeanGibson
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The name goes on before the quality goes in.


TnTexas wrote:
...

 

That's one of the biggest puzzlers about B&N to me. How can a marketing team not get that in today's day and age? Do they not use the internet in their own lives or something?

 

 


To me, the problem is not the lack of success on policy-driven actions (eg, what the device should look like and do), for which many of us differ with B&N.  The problem is the lack of execution on quality issues for which there should be no dispute:

 

  1. Software.
  2. Documentation (eg, specifications).
  3. B&N web site.
  4. Customer communication (eg, contents of an upgrade).  Using Facebook for such notifications is pathetic..

 

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.
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bobstro
Posts: 3,718
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Management saw the Nook Color and executed pretty well on what they learned

roustabout wrote:

[...] Apps aren't nice also-haves in the tablet space for most folks, and never really were.  They've been must-haves throughout;  it's why the Nook Color being rooted made it a useful and interesting device.  

 

This is the point many of us were trying to make back in the days when B&N was insisting the NC really was a tablet. 

 

BN has never understood this and still resists it, talking feebly about a reading-centered experience.

 

Remeber those threads? Having won the semantical point of the NOOK being a tablet, they were then faced with the fact that it was a pretty poor tablet for many things.

 

Real tablets are eating that claim for lunch, I think even at Julie's house.  

 

 

I do my own superficial market survey every time I return to my seat from the lavatory on a cross-country flight. Last year, I saw a good mix of NOOKs and Fires, along with the status-conscious iPads and an equal number of laptops. This year, I'm seeing far fewer NOOKs (though cases make it hard to tell, sometimes) and a LOT of iPad minis. Netbooks seem to be making a bit of a comeback too. At least on US Air from BOS-PHX.

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roustabout
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Re: Management saw the Nook Color and executed pretty well on what they learned

TnT notes, in re the "reading-centered experience."

And according to some long-standing complaints, B&N hasn't done a very good job with that experience either.

 

Yes indeed.  I found another reason I like my HD+ yesterday - I'm mostly not using the visually appealing and very quick onboard reader in favor of other epub readers.  

 

I sideloaded a long-ish book, and decided to start reading it in the stock reader application on the HD+.  

 

The book is loaded to internal memory, not an sdcard.  The stock reader app has lost my position multiple times, and tended to land me at the front page each time.  Using the TOC to jump to the right chapter was very hit-or-miss.

 

I did notice that the browser was crashing on occasion and I think Flipboard as well, so it may be that the device was overdue for a restart.  

 

However, I'm mostly back to reading it in fbreader because, well, fbreader's never lost my position in a book yet.  

 

The earlier Nook devices at least remembered where they had been.  This is a surprising thing to see in the flagship device even if it's been a few days since the last reboot.  

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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compulsivereaderTX
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Re: Management saw the Nook Color and executed pretty well on what they learned


roustabout wrote:

TnT notes, in re the "reading-centered experience."

And according to some long-standing complaints, B&N hasn't done a very good job with that experience either.

 

Yes indeed.  I found another reason I like my HD+ yesterday - I'm mostly not using the visually appealing and very quick onboard reader in favor of other epub readers.  

 

I sideloaded a long-ish book, and decided to start reading it in the stock reader application on the HD+.  

 

The book is loaded to internal memory, not an sdcard.  The stock reader app has lost my position multiple times, and tended to land me at the front page each time.  Using the TOC to jump to the right chapter was very hit-or-miss.

 

I did notice that the browser was crashing on occasion and I think Flipboard as well, so it may be that the device was overdue for a restart.  

 

However, I'm mostly back to reading it in fbreader because, well, fbreader's never lost my position in a book yet.  

 

The earlier Nook devices at least remembered where they had been.  This is a surprising thing to see in the flagship device even if it's been a few days since the last reboot.  


I'm having problems similar to this. But it not only loses my place, it will then misreport how many pages are in the book so I can't even get to where I was. OR, it gets stuck on one page and won't let me go any farther. I have to back out of the reader, wait a min or two and then try again. It will usually work then, but lost my place in the meantime. And this is on both sideloaded AND BN purchased books!!!

 

I very rarely ever had to reboot my other nooks and I'm a heavy user of my devices. I find that I have to reboot the HD+ at least once a week.

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BruceMcF
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Registered: ‎11-24-2011
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


DeanGibson wrote:
  1. Software.
  2. Documentation (eg, specifications).
  3. B&N web site.
  4. Customer communication (eg, contents of an upgrade).  Using Facebook for such notifications is pathetic..

Yes, this is more to the point than the overall business strategy.

 

For the bookstore, B&N needs sensible filtering on searched (science fiction versus under a certain price point versus recently published are INSANE things to have a "versus", its perfectly straightforward to have three different drop down menus to filter genre, price, and sort order WITHIN those returns by publication date, title, and author).

 

For the app store, the search needs to use the entire app description for search ~ a search for "file manager" not returning the file manager in the app store as a result is crazy ~ and there needs to be regular examination of search logs to see what people are looking for, to promote common search terms to keywords to push the most commonly desired results to the top of the search returns.

 

For the app store, there should be a small group that recruits freely available "service" apps, and apps that complement the B&N strategies ~ for instance, a strong complement to the Nook Video store is as wide a variety of video streaming apps as possible, so not having Crunchyroll, Viki, or Funimation is silly. Youtube can in general be played with the web browser, but in mobile mode it loses captioning, so a captioning Youtube video player is needed. And there is a selection of Free Open Source Software available for Android that B&N should simply put into its app store.

 

B&N has been running to keep up over the past two years, with a lot of its software development effort devoted to the Android version treadmill, but it seems that now would be an appropriate time to step off that treadmill for a bit and focus for a year on fixing, improving, and polishing the user experience.

 

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Ladyneat
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.

I will agree with that my n1e was a great user experience for me. My HD+ has not been that same level of satisfaction. I will say I found on my HD+ that the open book icon in bottom right corner acts as the equivalent to the reading now button on the n1e. It took me 2 weeks to figure that out. I would rather have a home screen button that takes me right there. Maybe that is just me.
flyingtoastr
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


BruceMcF wrote:

For the app store, there should be a small group that recruits freely available "service" apps, and apps that complement the B&N strategies ~ for instance, a strong complement to the Nook Video store is as wide a variety of video streaming apps as possible, so not having Crunchyroll, Viki, or Funimation is silly. Youtube can in general be played with the web browser, but in mobile mode it loses captioning, so a captioning Youtube video player is needed. And there is a selection of Free Open Source Software available for Android that B&N should simply put into its app store.

 


BN does have an evangelist team, but think of it from a developer's perspective. What is going to be more convincing to you to make you want to put in the time to develop (port in this case) to another platform? A sales pitch from a company (among the dozens you're probably already getting) or requests by paying users that they want your app?

 

Users are far better at getting results than any evangelist team. Take five minutes to email those app developers and I gaurentee you'll get better results than just complaining on BN's forum.

 

RE: YouTube - won't ever happen. Google doesn't allow any Google apps on an Android device that isn't paying them the licence fee for access to the Google Play Store. Download Flash and just use the full website.

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


flyingtoastr wrote:

BruceMcF wrote:

For the app store, there should be a small group that recruits freely available "service" apps, and apps that complement the B&N strategies ~ for instance, a strong complement to the Nook Video store is as wide a variety of video streaming apps as possible, so not having Crunchyroll, Viki, or Funimation is silly. Youtube can in general be played with the web browser, but in mobile mode it loses captioning, so a captioning Youtube video player is needed. And there is a selection of Free Open Source Software available for Android that B&N should simply put into its app store.

 


BN does have an evangelist team, but think of it from a developer's perspective. What is going to be more convincing to you to make you want to put in the time to develop (port in this case) to another platform? A sales pitch from a company (among the dozens you're probably already getting) or requests by paying users that they want your app?

 

Users are far better at getting results than any evangelist team. Take five minutes to email those app developers and I gaurentee you'll get better results than just complaining on BN's forum.

 

RE: YouTube - won't ever happen. Google doesn't allow any Google apps on an Android device that isn't paying them the licence fee for access to the Google Play Store. Download Flash and just use the full website.


 

Except Flash doesn't seem to be in the app store, nor available as a web plugin. 

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flyingtoastr
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


Mercury_Glitch wrote:

Except Flash doesn't seem to be in the app store, nor available as a web plugin. 


1. Open the stock web browser.

2. Go to www.adobe.com

3. Under the "Products" tab at the bottom left corner, click "Mobile Apps"

4. Find "Flash Player". Click on "Flash Player" (not the link that says "Download" - the actual name)

5. The device will ask "Complete action using". Select "Shop".

6. Install plugin.

 

No idea why it's so roundabout to install it, though it may have something to do with Adobe's agreement to not "officially" support Android any longer. But yes, Adobe Flash Mobile version 11 is supported on your NOOK HD series device.

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5ivedom
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.

A Hundred times this:

 

*****

To me, the problem is not the lack of success on policy-driven actions (eg, what the device should look like and do), for which many of us differ with B&N.  The problem is the lack of execution on quality issues for which there should be no dispute:

 

  1. Software.
  2. Documentation (eg, specifications).
  3. B&N web site.
  4. Customer communication (eg, contents of an upgrade).  Using Facebook for such notifications is pathetic..

*****

 

This is what, in my opinion, is the fundamental mistake with HD and HD+.

 

There are issues that simply shouldn't be there - browser crashing, place in a book getting lost, shelves getting lost, etc.

 

Color and Tablet were doing just fine even without the 'perfect app store'.

 

It's when B&N lost focus on the core features that things started getting bad. I think it's dangerous to underestimate the importance of word of mouth. People are very quick to recommend something they love. And those recommendations mean a LOT more than any amount of marketing. Additionally, most people do their research. If they find online reports of things like browser crashing or sluggishness, then obviously they will be very reluctant to buy the device.

 

****

For iPad Mini.

I think it's a factor, definitely.

 

I've noticed that Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire launches had little to no effect on sales. At least nothing I could see.

 

However, something happened after thanksgiving.

 

Leaves just two possibilities -

 

1) The actual devices didn't wow people. So no word of mouth and very little gifting.

 

OR

 

2) iPad Mini ate up large parts of the smaller Tablet market.

 

*****

The strange thing is that it doesn't seem to have affected Kindle Fire.

 

So we have this crazy parallel universe where

 

Kindle Fire Sales don't seem to hurt Nook Sales.

 

However, iPad Mini hurts Nook while not hurting Kindle Fire?

 

*****

Perhaps it's just that Amazon has very strong traffic during the holiday season and is thus immune to iPad Mini. Perhaps in 2013 Fire will get affected by iPad too.

 

 

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BruceMcF
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Registered: ‎11-24-2011
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


flyingtoastr wrote:

BN does have an evangelist team, but think of it from a developer's perspective. What is going to be more convincing to you to make you want to put in the time to develop (port in this case) to another platform? A sales pitch from a company (among the dozens you're probably already getting) or requests by paying users that they want your app?

 

Users are far better at getting results than any evangelist team. Take five minutes to email those app developers and I guarantee you'll get better results than just complaining on BN's forum.


Though I've already spent those five minutes, and in a few cases far more than five minutes over the past year.

 

And there is a difference between developer recruitment and app recruitment. If Crunchyroll, for example, was contacted told that their app works on the Nook HD/HD+ (and Tablet and NC, if it tests out) and asked for permission to distribute their latest apk for free in the Nook app store ...

... as opposed to being contacted with information on how to spend their time applying to be a Nook app developer ...

... the answer would clearly be "yes". It would increase their profile without putting more work on the plate of a small business actively developing for a wide range of devices and channels.

 

Similarly, Chase would not likely be interested in investing their time in jumping through any hoops to become a Nook apps developer, but if permission to distribute their app was requested, they are more likely to grant permission, and once it is in the store, more likely to have a "Nook app" badge on their mobile app pages.

 

And for the FOSS software, the best recruitment is putting up a Nook specific version in the app store and back-contributing any changes required to the FOSS project team.

 

The idea here is to cut through the vicious circle of how you recruit developers to an app store that has less traffic because of the currently restriction in the selection of apps available, by bulking up the selection by direct recruitment of apps, to increase traffic and make the store more appealing to developers.

 


RE: YouTube - won't ever happen. Google doesn't allow any Google apps on an Android device that isn't paying them the licence fee for access to the Google Play Store. Download Flash and just use the full website.


So to sum that up, something that I did not propose because its not workable is not workable, so I shouldn't expect it to happen. Which is fine, as I don't.

 

That leaves us with the situation from which I started, in which the PC oriented version of the site is awkward to use, as the controls to the player are mouse centric rather than touch centric, while the HTML5 mobile version of the YouTube site works just fine, except does not offer captions, which could be resolved by an applet that provided improved touch control support when playing YouTube videos, including.

 

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roustabout
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.

[ Edited ]

Honestly, I read "Youtube can in general be played with the web browser, but in mobile mode it loses captioning, so a captioning Youtube video player is needed." as suggesting a Youtube player be added.

 

Is there a particular captioning Youtube player for Android that isn't dependent on a Google license?  There may easily be, but I can see where the confusion came in.

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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BruceMcF
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


roustabout wrote:

Honestly, I read "Youtube can in general be played with the web browser, but in mobile mode it loses captioning, so a captioning Youtube video player is needed." as suggesting a Youtube player be added.

 

Is there a particular captioning Youtube player for Android that isn't dependent on a Google license?  There may easily be, but I can see where the confusion came in.


Yes, a youtube video player ~ there's no urgency to a general youtube app, but a home shortcut to the mobile page would be good.

As far as what would be involved in it ~ it might be an Adobe Air app that offers usable touch screen controls to the user and translates that to the full screen Flash video player as mouse control.

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5ivedom
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.

I've been thinking about this:

 

*****

And there is a difference between developer recruitment and app recruitment.

*****

 

And I think a user contacting a developer would still have more weight.

 

Here's why I think that -

 

1) B&N contacting the developer = Developer being told it's easy and/or automatic to get the developer's app in the store.

 

Motivation - Reach more users.

Concern: It's indirect.

 

2) Users contacting the developer = Developer sees DEMAND. And it's direct.

 

*****

 

I don't know how it is for other developers but for us we aren't excited when companies contact us to ask for our apps or to make apps for them etc.

 

But if we see users asking for apps on other platforms then it is very exciting.

 

Of course, who knows what the average Android developer finds motivational.

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.

It's hard to imagine that a developer would be stoked about a company saying 'you should make your apps for our store, because we have lots of users'.  Unless that store was keyed to the type of app being developed.

 

Exceptions being Apple and Google simply because of their installed user base being so large and diverse.  Which is also a reason for B&N to allow certain apps on the NST, more devices using apps means a wider selection of users even if one device is limited in what apps would be allowed.

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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BruceMcF
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.


5ivedom wrote:

I've been thinking about this:

 

*****

And there is a difference between developer recruitment and app recruitment.

*****

 

And I think a user contacting a developer would still have more weight.

 

Here's why I think that -

 

1) B&N contacting the developer = Developer being told it's easy and/or automatic to get the developer's app in the store.

 

Motivation - Reach more users.

Concern: It's indirect.

 

2) Users contacting the developer = Developer sees DEMAND. And it's direct.

 

*****

 

I don't know how it is for other developers but for us we aren't excited when companies contact us to ask for our apps or to make apps for them etc.

 

But if we see users asking for apps on other platforms then it is very exciting.

 

Of course, who knows what the average Android developer finds motivational.


They seem more complementary to me than mutually exclusive.

 

(1) Say the app recruitment team identifies anime streaming apps as complementary to the Nook HD/HD+'s strength in emanga in Nook Comics format. They approach Crunchyroll, Funimation and Viki. Only Crunchyroll says yes.

 

(2) The Crunchyroll apps goes up, and drawing some Crunchyroll users, they post complaints that the Funimation and Viki apps are up on the store.

 

(3) The relationship marketing person on the app recruitment team comes on the forum and says they'd be happy to have those apps, contact those companies at these links and say that you want them.

 

(4) Now Viki goes back and says, "Oh, yeah, we have an invite to get our app in that store", and now the Viki app is up.

 

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5ivedom
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Re: The name goes on before the quality goes in.

When you put it that way - Yes, it does seem better to have recruitment team. Yes, a recruitment team that also leveraged forum posts and customer requests would be very powerful.