04-30-2011 02:57 PM
04-30-2011 02:58 PM
Dummie Here! What is Rooting?
04-30-2011 03:27 PM
Scosgt wrote: "The "intellectual property" is ONLY the OS, and they can not make you use it."
Actually, the IP in the OS is not owned by BN or controlled by them.
Hence, the source code release. It's a requirement from the folks who actually wrote the OS, a litlte garage operation called Google.
The IP that BN controls is the add-ons which control access to the publishers' content.
And yes, they totally can make a decision on their side that rooting has broken the DRM that they are legally bound to enforce, and they can deregister rooted devices.
At which point, you can load the OS, either build from source or obtained via the xda devs, and use the hardware.
But you don't have the right to keep using the BN store or library apps - that's the IP that BN can (and has to) protect.
04-30-2011 03:40 PM
Rooting the nook color just gives you the ability to get around B&N's custom overlay of Android. It's like HTC's Sense software...it isn't actually android, it's a customized overlay. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong for those that are more technically minded.
As to my two cents on the conversation - B&N is making a very smart decision in not really doing much to fight the rooting effort. Yes, mine is rooted and I have replaced the Nook ROM with the current CM nightly running at 1.3Ghz. I've shown my rooted device off in store and probably helped the sales lady sell a couple of them (where's MY commision???). The device itself has impressive hardware as a tablet, also at only being $250, is a great bargain. For B&N to sell these so low, they're going to pick up a lot of people who want a tablet, but without being beholden to the cellular companies for a $500+ device plus monthly service charges. Hell, if I were in their marketing department, I might let that fact slip just to entice more people into buying it.
Legally speaking, the idea that this is something illegal is just...ignorant, I feel like the comparisons to cars and oil changes and computers and replacing windows are valid comparisons, more or less; but still a little flawed. Rooting the Nook does alter the Nook ROM which simply voids your warrenty. So, if you break it...you're out $250, or you just have to bring back the stock ROM before you take it back. The ability to deny you service is also just ignorant, ok so I have rooted my nook and now 'theoretically' B&N has discontinued my service. Ok, so what does that mean? I can't buy books from B&N - Install Google Books, or Kindle, or others...bad business decision from B&N's standpoint. I still purchase my books from B&N partly out of respect to their device - but partly because I would prefer to only have 1 application to read my ebooks. Also the simple fact that there is now choice in the purchasing of eBooks is going to hopefully act as a source of competition between the eBook sellers and help to control costs.
Second thing I can think of as B&N's service is the free WiFi in stores. There are a couple nice features that come with this that I do miss, mostly the ability to read books for an hour while I'm in the store, I'm sure they could fix the Nook App to compensate for this, but as of now, no luck. Either way, the att wireless is stil a free access point, but even if they nixed that, I can always just tether my nook to my phone and bam...internet! The coupons were potentially nice as well, but I can live without those.
The one thing I miss more than anything else is my magazine subscriptions - the Nook App doesn't have anything for this, I'm hopeful B&N will add magazines to their app, especially with tablets becoming more common, but I don't hold my breath.
Anyways, just my opinion
04-30-2011 03:49 PM - edited 04-30-2011 03:50 PM
Just about every device I've ever owned has some disclaimer about voiding the warranty. All this basically says is that if I choose to alter or misuse a device that I own and it goes haywire, the company cannot be held responsible for replacement, repair, or anything that could result in legal liability.
I also find it interesting to say that B&N would deem this illegal when from Day 1 with the classic nooks, they have sold books with information on how to operate the nook and they include at least one entire chapter on how to root the device. A few weeks ago, I went into the B&N store and there was a whole display of a new book on the nook color with a banner about rooting the nook on the front cover.
04-30-2011 04:08 PM
The reason MS and Apple are going after the sellers of android devices (and not Google) has to with the changes the sellers have made to android which in their opinion is cutting them out of their just due. None have gone all the way BECAUSE the sellers have realized their use of those "changes" have had just that effect so they negotiate a royalty payment.
The reason MicroSoft and Apple are going after sellers of Android devices is because they can. As long as they either drive smaller companies out of business by having to defend lawsuits, or get settlements or win cases (which I don't think has happened yet) they will keep doing it. They are moving up the food chain so to speak and Google is at the top. They are trying to set precedent before they go after their real target.
04-30-2011 04:43 PM
I actually don't use or buy anything from B&N, so they can "cut me off" at will, I would never even know it.
My point was that IF they did something to destroy my Nook, like the cable companies used to do with the cheater boxes (which was OK because the boxes were ILLEGAL to put onto their networks and in fact people were STEALING the programming) there would be hell to pay. I bought my Nook Color, paid in full, and I can do whatever I want with it.
04-30-2011 05:09 PM
You do own the device.
Where this is different from a car is that you're using the device to view protected content; the content has the same right to being protected as music or movies.
If you want to use the BN stock firmware, some aspects of which are pretty good, they can shut you down in a heartbeat if they find you're using their firmware for piracy. They could probably also be subpoenaed by publishers if they were collecting filenames or file fingerprints of data stored Nooks. So the Nook could potentially be used to find people with big caches of cracked material sideloaded.
If you want to use their firmware and not use their services, you have a way to do that - google up the instructions for "skip out of box experience." You never register with BN, and you aren't phoning home. To be doubly sure, install droidwall and tell the BN cloud service that it can't phone home.
You're (probably) not eligible for free in-store wifi, you aren't able to get free ebooks on Friday, etc.
If you want to use their firmware and their services, it's actually not legal mumbo jumbo, they could decide to deauthorize your account tomorrow, as they accidentally did to a big chunk fo their installs this week. Totally within bounds legally if you're violating the EULA, and apparently a little too easy to do from a tech standpoint.
You can also simply tear out their OS completely and install CM or another alternate OS. That will keep them from remote wiping you. You can install the nook app in that alternate OS, and then you can buy and read books, but you don't get the in-store freebies.
I think the most important distinction here when people say "illegal" is between civil and criminal law.
Can BN sue modders? Sure. They could call Sony and ask for advice on that. Depending on why they were suing, they might or might not win. Modding to unlock the DRM? Probable win. Modding to jailbreak? Probable loss.
Once the EULA stops being enforced to protect content and starts being enforced to protect the BN store app, BN would probably lose if they took someone to court. The Sony languate on the PS3 was much more insane than the BN language, because Sony took Linux code for the PS3 before the much more aggressive open source licenses were finished.
Now, if you distribute a linux platform, the OS itself has substantial legal protection, and jailbreaking is explicitly legal as of a year or two ago.
That's a lot of why the source was released so fast.
Plain and simple...it is NOT "illegal" to root your nook. You void any warranty offered by B&N, but beyond that...there is no law preventing you from rooting the NC.
Rooting simply means accessing the functions of the OS as a superuser. That capability is built into the OS (Android) and is REMOVED (or locked out if you prefer) by B&N. You are simply unlocking what already exists and you are NOT "modifying, reverse engineering" or any such relative the the APPLICATIONS that B&N has put on the NC.
The very worst thing that B&N could do, would be to deny you service, meaning you could no longer download from B&N. Period.
04-30-2011 05:13 PM
"I don't think rooting a nook is illegal or piracy at all - it's not any different at all from taking my PC that came with Windows and changing the operating system to Linux instead (not that I would do that either, but just an example). All rooting does is change the operating system on a hardware device that you own. People do that all the time. There is nothing illegal, immoral or wrong about that at all."
That's not entirely correct. See the comment above about the different methods of rooting. In some cases, you ARE replacing the operating system, but what a lot of people are going to do is actually modifying the OS in ways the manufacturer did not intend them to. You're correct in saying it's not illegal, and I agree that it isn't immoral, but B&N might have the right to refuse you updates if you do it, since it is in violation of the license agreement for the OS. Check out this article about the fairly recent decision regarding jailbreaking iPhones:
04-30-2011 05:25 PM - edited 04-30-2011 05:28 PM
You might try reading this.
Barnes and Noble has been lenient so far towards people rooting their Nook Colors, but they do not have to be, they can terminate your service as per their user agreement if you root the device.
Yes, my Nook Color is rooted if you are wondering. I am not worried about them terminating my service, but they do have that right if they want too.
Remember, you did not ask if they would, you asked why people think rooting the Nook Color is illegal. Illegal may not be the correct term, a violation of your user agreement that could cause your service to be terminated may be better.
(d) Restrictions. Except as may be expressly permitted by this Agreement, you may not, directly or indirectly: (i) use the Software on any device other than your NOOKcolor; (ii) use, copy, modify, distribute copies of, display or transmit the Software; (iii) disassemble, reverse engineer, emulate, decompile, tamper with, create derivative works from or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software or the technology used to provide the Service or attempt to reduce the Software to human-readable form;
11. Termination of the Service.
(a) By Us. If we have a reasonable basis to believe that you have violated any term or condition of this Agreement or may cause us, our suppliers or licensors, or another user of the Service financial loss or legal liability, we may, in our sole discretion, upon notice to you, issue a warning, temporarily suspend, indefinitely suspend or terminate any of your rights to use or access all or any part of the Service.
Go look at the definition of "The Software" I think you will find that "The Software" is the application that B&N has added. That's right. Android is the Operating System, and on top of that...go applications. And in particular, the Nook reader application is what you are prohibited from modifying....and rooting does NOT modify the Nook application.
And the parts you are quoting are from the Terms of Service for using B&N's "service" and are NOT part of the warranty or published legal documents that are part of the User Guide.
It is quite possible to purchase a NC, NEVER register it on "the service" and to modify it all you wish and stay 100% within the "Terms and Conditions" as you will not be using "the service"
10-10-2012 07:48 PM
can you break your nook by rooting it
Its hard to "break" your Nook Color by rooting it. You might possibly damage your nook by overclocking it too aggressively, but then its the overclocking doing the damage, not the rooting.
You can mess up your configuration, and have to go back to a factory fresh install and start over ... but breaking it is very hard to do. To "brick" it, you need to mess up the bootloader, since as long as the bootloader works, you can boot off an SD card, and if you can boot off an SD card, you can use ClockWork Recovery to install a fresh system, or else you can use the eight interrupted boots trick to reinstall the original factory system.
It is, on the other hand, not nearly so hard to get things tangled up to the point that you do have to start from scratch, so if getting started with experimenting with it, it makes a lot of sense to get a backup of a working configuration on a recovery SD card that you set aside in a safe place.
10-13-2012 04:15 AM
According to the courts, jailbreaking/rooting a device is legal. At least that's what one court said about jailbreaking the iPhone.
There's a line between legal and illegal. IN my opinion, rooting YOUR OWN DEVICE which you bought and modifying its software FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE is legal.
However, different people have different perspectives.
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10-13-2012 09:59 AM
In some cases, you ARE replacing the operating system, but what a lot of people are going to do is actually modifying the OS in ways the manufacturer did not intend them to. You're correct in saying it's not illegal, and I agree that it isn't immoral, but B&N might have the right to refuse you updates if you do it, since it is in violation of the license agreement for the OS. ...
OTOH, since they distribute updates over the air and by hosting the update file on their site for free anonymous download, there seems to be no likelihood of them exercising any such "right to deny updates".