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pinnacle7
Posts: 50
Registered: ‎04-24-2011
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hope this is not true

[ Edited ]
B&n to scale back hardware web site the verge reports on a nyt story more detail on the new York times site
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roustabout
Posts: 3,630
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

The times article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/business/media/barnes-noble-weighs-its-nook-losses.html?pagewanted...

 

My guess is that it is true;  probably either the e-ink or the lcd products will stop being developed.  I hope the e-ink line is the one that survives.  There is less competition in the space and I think overall they are less costly to support and less disappointing to buyers.

 

 

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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compulsivereaderTX
Posts: 1,119
Registered: ‎01-09-2010

Re: hope this is not true

I have no doubt it is true though it p!$$+$ me off. Not because I'm a diehard BN fan (though at one time I was), but that BN dug this grave themselves by distancing themselves from their customers and the needs of those customers.The Nook family of devices are stellar in hardware...but other devices in the same price range are catching up there and offer more.  Lack of communication, lack of attention to customers,the alienation of many of those customers, a general conceit that BN knows better and as the article states...lack of an adequate business model.

 

Even without the lack of content, there are other important considerations.

 

In an era of exploding availability and portability of technology, the need for customer service is becoming more important that ever. The customer base for that technology is no longer confined to tech geeks and nerds, but to many people who have no previous experience with technology other than the most basic needs to get around on their internet, turn on the tv and play xbox. They have limited financial means to play around with so they choose devices that meet their needs and provide them with the support and knowledge to learn how to use those devices (which is an area in which we all know BN severally lacks).

 

They are NOT geeks and nerds so they need software that doesn't frustrate them and force them to take time away from their lives to learn how to "fix" or "work around". I'm NOT saying they are idiots at all. They are people with families, jobs, busy lives and simply don't have the time or energy to devote to dealing with tech problems. They need their devices to work as advertised with a minimum of fuss. (BN: fail)

 

They like the idea of a small portable computer with a decent size screen that can travel with them. For most people, their computers are not used as computing machines, but for email, internet, facebook, banking, shopping and entertainment, needs that are now being met on their smart phones though the screen size is inadequate. Tablets have a place in their lives IF the tablet can meet their needs, both in content AND financially.  (BN: Fail on both if needs aren't met).

 

In a world where their choices are multiplying, people place other needs and desires in there as well. Does the seller appreciate that they spent their hard earned money there? Does the seller listen to their needs or consistantly offer choices that have nothing in common with the needs expressed? Does the seller communicate adequately about problems and solutions? Does the seller tell you how to USE their products? Well? Does the seller RESPOND to their evolving needs and requests? Does the customer feel as if any of these are happening or is the seller just assuming that if they give the proper response at some point, the customer will be content (if they are still a customer at that point)? (Fail, Fail, Fail)

 

 

Just MHO as someone who raised 3 kids in an financially stressed environment and had to watch every penny and spend it wisely. I'm "grown" now with grandchildren so I can afford an occasional mistake...but back then...nope.

 

 

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RucknRun
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎10-15-2010
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Re: hope this is not true

I love my Nooks and I like backing the underdog.  It sucks if this happens. Just this article may get me to start buying kindle books.

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Nom-de-Nook
Posts: 956
Registered: ‎08-06-2010
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Re: hope this is not true

Likely it is true.  If you are not Apple, it is hard to make money on hardware (see Dell, HP).  Margins (non-Apple) are thin and you have to have volume and follow on sales to make it work.  BN has just been too slow at developing its ecosystem (apps, media, etc.) and where they were the leaders in the small table space, they are now behind.  The total value proposition for a Nook just isn't there compared to the Amazon ecosytem or the more open Android world.  And they are not first choice partners for developers of Apps or vendors of media.

 

It isn't just BN.  There is a similar concern that Apple needs a "next big thing" to justify its stock price.  Obviously, Apple is much better situated to ride it out and put $ into R&D than BN is.

 

But BN never understood, you can't make money by copying a competitor's model (Apple- closed ecosytem) unless you can do it better.  And they didn't do it better.

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roustabout
Posts: 3,630
Registered: ‎03-31-2011

Re: hope this is not true

n-d-n writes:  "you can't make money by copying a competitor's model (Apple- closed ecosytem) unless you can do it better. And they didn't do it better."

 

Two points:  ecosystem and closed

 

BN didn't (for those who color within the lines) do the ecosystem better, or even fully commit to trying, at least from this side of the counter.  They had a real opportunity which they blew by making development invitation only.  

 

They also didn't do closed better, or even understand what it meant.  This benefitted them with the Nook Color which they not only didn't try to close, but didn't understand they could close, any more than they understood that the Nook Color had Bluetooth.  

 

Once they tried to close, they executed badly, twice.  First the NT was released as a more open device (in casual use) than the NC was, and within weeks was made a much more closed device.

 

Devs have kept working on it but BN alienated both independent developers and their own customers.

 

The HD and HD+ are much more open, and for that matter the development process is now clearly much more open.  

 

If that had been true throughout, BN could still be competitive with Amazon in apps and books, although not in music or film.  

 

Would that have been enough?  A coworker and Amazon customer saw my HD+ and decided she wanted a tablet.  She picked up a Kindle Fire (not sure what screen size) but is returning it in favor of a Nexus 7 on very much the grounds that many here are unhappy with their devices:  closed ecosystem, all pointed to purchasing from Amazon.  (She has one of the Samsung 5" media players as well, so she's been spoiled by having access to the full Android experience - as do many who carry  smartphones...)  

 

As I said, I hope the e-ink products survive.  And if BN does stop developing the LCD product line, I hope that as a farewell gesture they push an OTA that enables installing apps from outside of their store for all of their customers.  

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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Joe05
Posts: 76
Registered: ‎01-22-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

I don't necessarly think this is a bad thing. Maybe they will spin the Nook off to somebody who actually knows what they are doing.

As the owner of two Nook devices a Color and a NT I am happy with them. They do exactaly what I thought they would do. But with that said when the new devices came out I opted to get a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 instead. Why you ask? Well, there were more options there. Like Kindle, Vudu the android market well the list goes on....

This all kind of reminds me of what I went through with the Zune. IMHO a much better player than the Ipod, but it was dead on arrival because Microsoft did not have a clue how to market the device or how to make it different that what Apple was selling. So it died! The Zune ecosystem lives on though via Xbox.

So if B&N stops making the devices and somebody else does I think we all may see a more open device.

BTW I still use my Zune and my two Nook's everyday !:smileyhappy:

 





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kamas716
Posts: 1,491
Registered: ‎09-28-2011

Re: hope this is not true

I don't necessarily thing this is a bad thing, either.  If they can get their act together and make a really good app, one that is the 'go to' for readers, I think it will work out.  I think they would do well focusing on a good e-ink device and a kick-butt app. 

 

Another thing they could do, is open NookStudy up to tablets.  Even if it is easier to type/take notes on a laptop, there are plenty of new college students that just want to do everything on their tablets. 

 

Let the other hardware manufacturers fight over platforms, but provide a really good app that people want to use on all their devices.  B&N is a niche market (books/magazines/newspapers), they aren't ever going to be able to compete with the likes of Apple, Samsung, etc. unless they get a HUGE infusion of funding.

http://www.goodreads.com/kamas716
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5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

1) I'll second the thoughts of others like kamas.

 

A) It'd be good for B&N to focus on what it can do well.

 

B) Hopefully B&N sells Nook to someone who has hardware and software as core competencies. And, more importantly, has the deep pockets to compete.

 

The devices can compete with anyone on hardware terms. It's the software and the deep pockets that are missing.

 

*****

 

2) We also need someone to take over Nook who has, or for B&N to develop, empathy towards users.

 

REAL USERS. Not your tech-savvy best friend.

 

Here:

 

They are NOT geeks and nerds so they need software that doesn't frustrate them and force them to take time away from their lives to learn how to "fix" or "work around". I'm NOT saying they are idiots at all. They are people with families, jobs, busy lives and simply don't have the time or energy to devote to dealing with tech problems. They need their devices to work as advertised with a minimum of fuss.

 

******

That's exactly why Apple did so well.

 

They made devices for human beings.

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keriflur
Posts: 6,720
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: hope this is not true


5ivedom wrote:

1) I'll second the thoughts of others like kamas.

 

A) It'd be good for B&N to focus on what it can do well.

 

B) Hopefully B&N sells Nook to someone who has hardware and software as core competencies. And, more importantly, has the deep pockets to compete.

 

The devices can compete with anyone on hardware terms. It's the software and the deep pockets that are missing.

 

*****

 

2) We also need someone to take over Nook who has, or for B&N to develop, empathy towards users.

 

REAL USERS. Not your tech-savvy best friend.

 

Here:

 

They are NOT geeks and nerds so they need software that doesn't frustrate them and force them to take time away from their lives to learn how to "fix" or "work around". I'm NOT saying they are idiots at all. They are people with families, jobs, busy lives and simply don't have the time or energy to devote to dealing with tech problems. They need their devices to work as advertised with a minimum of fuss.

 

******

That's exactly why Apple did so well.

 

They made devices for human beings.


I agree with everything you've said here, except for the part that apple is getting it right.  Because they're not.  They could, if their giant egos weren't obscuring the ability to see all the stuff that doesn't work and needs to be fixed.

 

So, let's go for a company that does all the things you listed, but doesn't get a big head about it.

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5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

Please see what I wrote:

 

*****

That's exactly why Apple did so well.

 

They made devices for human beings.

*****

 

I don't mention anything else. In reference to the earlier part (quoted from another very wise poster) it's Apple's willingness to make products that everyday users can enjoy and use easily that makes them successful.

 

Not that they are perfect. I dislike them, actually.

 

Just that they GET IT!

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PeterDe
Posts: 464
Registered: ‎04-20-2010
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Re: hope this is not true

I'm afraid this might mean a quick death of the Nook.

Some people can't see the forest for the trees!

4 Nook Household, 2 NOOKs, 2 NOOKcolors
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BruceMcF
Posts: 802
Registered: ‎11-24-2011
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Re: hope this is not true


roustabout wrote:

The times article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/business/media/barnes-noble-weighs-its-nook-losses.html?pagewanted...

 

My guess is that it is true;  probably either the e-ink or the lcd products will stop being developed.  

 


Of course, B&N has denied the interpretation that it is going to abandon the Nook. This is more in line with the more recent news that the current chairman of B&N, and founder of the chain that originally bought the B&N name, is considering buying out the retail division.

 

It makes all the sense in the world to scale back development of the Nook HD and HD+, since its solved all of the most critical hardware shortcomings of the Nook Tablet, and if the purpose is to sell books and other media, keeping it stable through the next Christmas season and pushing down the price point while getting the Nook app and Nook video app pre-installed on more hardware out of the box ~ including strengthening the appeal of those apps.

 

And wih the specialization of the eInk readers for ebooks alone and decline in importance of the eInk readers in the ebook side, if they have a good piece of kit coming out as the Nook Touch 2, it would be irresponsible to not at least evaluate whether it makes sense to scale back hardware development of that as well.

 

Given that specialization of eInk readers and generality of the media tablets, its easy to see the next Nook media tablet to be a case of inviting various tablet manufacturers to put forward designs that meet target criteria, and then pick the best value proposition among those for the next Nook, while developing another generation or two of eInk reader.

 

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roustabout
Posts: 3,630
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

When I wrote the post, I was distinguishing between 'developed' and 'sold' - agreed, the sunk costs for the HD and HD+ and NST/NSTG are there;  it makes sense to keep selling the devices.  

 

However, the article and Riggio's announcement, are likely going to drive Nook hardware sales through the floor.  

 

And it is weird to me that Riggio's not trying to take the college bookstores along with 'retail,' since my impression is that sales of textbooks is a great racket to be in.  It certainly was when my granddad did it for a living until his early retirement.  

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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RHWright
Posts: 1,619
Registered: ‎10-21-2009

Re: hope this is not true

I rarely get it right when I play the "guess what B&N will do next" game. But if I were running the show, I'd: 1) Devote time to eink readers and dominating that base. 2) Ditch the B&N marketplace (or whatever it's called) for apps and videos. Push an update that lets the existing tablets use Google Play or whatever users want. 3) Focus on being the choice reader app on tablets, especially Android based, but not neglecting other OS. This would include a form of Nook Study for Tablets. Not holding my breath.
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Ruffles5
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎10-10-2012
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Re: hope this is not true

Everyone's mentioning the eInk technology. Wasn't there a recent WSJ article about how sales of all eInk devices are poor and may in-fact go away for the most part?

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Mercury_Glitch
Posts: 1,425
Registered: ‎06-07-2011
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Re: hope this is not true


Ruffles5 wrote:

Everyone's mentioning the eInk technology. Wasn't there a recent WSJ article about how sales of all eInk devices are poor and may in-fact go away for the most part?


 

For some things eink will likely fade away relatively soon.  However it still offers benefits that lcd screens just can not match.  The energy consumption of an eink ereader is much lower than that of an lcd ereader, making them ideal for travel or for those who don't want to have to charge their device every 10ish hours.  Fairly little glare means you can read at the beach without issue, or in other sunny areas.  The devices are also lighter (the NSTG is lighter than the HD and the iPad mini despite being about a year older and having nearly the same physical footprint). 

 

And as we get more effiecient with battery use and the general make up it only increases the life for the eink screen that much more.

 

At some point when tablets are as light as eink devices or near enough that the difference is negligible (NST vs NSTG weights) and the battery lasts weeks versus days, and we have actually solved the glare issue the tablets will likely replace eink devices for readers.  Until that time many people wont convert, and it's got nothing to do with the cost of the device and everything to do with their intended use.

 

The media hypes up tablets a whole lot.  And I'll give you a hint as to why, tablets cost more, and the media is funded in part from ads from the private sector. 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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BeachCatFan
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

I have an iPad and love it. If I could see the screen out in the sun and didn't feel it's too expensive an item to take out to the beach or pool with me, I would use it exclusively. I have the original NOOK, the NST, and 2 NOOK Colors ( the first one started acting weird and I bought a refurbished one..........which, of course, made the first one start behaving).

 

I have found hundreds of free Kindle books that now reside on my iPad..............and on the NOOK Colors via the N2A cards. My favorite NOOK? The NST...........fits in my purse, cheap enough to take to the beach and pool, and the biggest plus.............I can read it outdoors. The thing I hate most about it? Not enough space for all of my books and I hate to archive books because my husband uses the original NOOK..............all are in my name....... and I can't put any Kindle books on it.

 

After reading the various articles in the paper this week and other online reports, I won't be buying another NOOK product, that's for sure. I'm tempted to just buy the e-ink Kindle for my Kindle books..........I doubt Amazon is going anywhere soon!

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5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: hope this is not true

RHWright, you seem veryAndroid focused i.e. B&N should embrace Android and focus on Android Tablets.

 

Here's what you wrote:

 

*****

2) Ditch the B&N marketplace (or whatever it's called) for apps and videos. Push an update that lets the existing tablets use Google Play or whatever users want. 3) Focus on being the choice reader app on tablets, especially Android based

*****

 

There's just one problem.

 

Android people buy FAR LESS than other groups of customers.

 

The training that Google is giving them of free everything, and which is being strengthened by all the free apps, leads to less sales of other stuff.

 

Do you really expect people who get free weather, free email, free search, free maps, free GPS, free apps, to turn around and pay $10 for a book?

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keriflur
Posts: 6,720
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: hope this is not true


BeachCatFan wrote:

After reading the various articles in the paper this week and other online reports, I won't be buying another NOOK product, that's for sure. I'm tempted to just buy the e-ink Kindle for my Kindle books..........I doubt Amazon is going anywhere soon!


And this is why I think Riggio wants to take the company private - because people actually believe all the instability crap that sensationalist journalists write.