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vivico1
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End of Book discussion

Since this is the last week, lets talk about the book as a whole on this thread and since it is posted as end of book discussion, know that there will be spoilers here so we don't need to post spoiler warnings on this thread ok? Here are a few things we might discuss:

1. What feelings did you have once you were through with the book, about it or in general?
2. Should anyone guilty of these types of crimes ever be tried in their home town, or what about even home state for that matter?
3. While you were reading the book, did you feel Josie was keeping a real secret about the incident, or did you feel it was just that she felt it was her fault in some way? What did you think when you found out she was the one who shot Matt?
4. Any overall thoughts about the kids on both sides of this incident?
5. What did you think when you read about Peter killing himself at the end? And can you be sure he did?
6. What about the two letters from girls that Peter got in prison, for different reasons, should he have answered either of them? And why do you think some women are drawn to killers in prison at all?
7. Last thoughts on Alex and Patrick? How about Lacy now?
8. Do you believe that Peter was really suffering from PTSD? Was his punishment just? Do you think anyone who does this is suffering from PTSD? Is the death penalty ever warranted in any school mass shooting then?
9. Do you think the masks and personas that we wear in high school, we continue to wear throughout our lives or can we eventually let go of them? Do they stay as part of our personality and just change to new forms as we age? What can we change or not?

Ok, hopefully there will be some questions here to entice some posting and discussion, pick one or all. You might want to limit each post to just one or two and start a new post for any others, so we can all discuss those one at a time with each other. Hopefully we will get more discussion now at the end of the book. This kind of book is a bit hard to discuss in parts, but now that there is so much to discuss, feel free.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: End of Book discussion

1. What feelings do you have since you have finished the book?
 
Certainly I was surprised by the fact of Josie shooting the gun. Like I have said, Jodi is noted for her off the wall surprise endings. I know books of this sort, should help people see how wrong both parties were. Not just the bully but his killer also. And that there are consequences for acts of violence toward others. But to me, the punishment was a bit severe with as many facts as was presented to the jury. But its strange I felt this way, but it was like I was relieved when Peter did kill himself. That is terrible but I did feel that relief sieve through me when I read this.
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kiakar
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Re: End of Book discussion

2. Should anyone that commits crimes like this be tried in their hometown or state.?
 
Since this was a smaller town I believe, it shouldnt take place there, because there are too many people who know everyone in a smaller city. If it was a larger city, maybe an entirely different neighborhood or a small town which is usually around a big city. But honestly, this type of trial, I do not know whether people can stay biast anyway.
It would be a tough job finding jurors that really have no thoughts on this sort of thing. I believe emotions would fly regardless of where it was held.
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kiakar
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Re: End of Book discussion

3. Did you think Josie was keeping a real big secret about what happened . She seemed  to think she was responsible in some way. Did you think this?
 
I thought it was because of the relationship she had had with Peter before Matt. She felt quilty for all the taunting her and her friends did toward Peter. I had no clue that she had shot Matt. It never occurred to me.
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kiakar
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Re: End of Book discussion

Any thoughts on  both sides of the incident:
 
 
Yes, there certainly was sympthany for both sides. That Peter couldn't come up with a solution for his torment and his tormenters had to die for their discreptions. And Josie's part in it floored me good.
I guess she got caught up in the middle between Peter and Matt. Maybe there were left over feelings, she really felt for Peter. And the reason for so much quilt she had after Matt's death. But I did not understand her punishment at the end either though. Why so much? This was not something she planned, this was done during confusement and clutter.
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kiakar
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To Doug Hobbs: About your daughter going to public school after homeschooling

Doug, I would like to know what your take on your daughter going back to high school in a public setting. Does she get any flap about being homeschooled or any type of harsh kidding.? My granddaughter is ten and her parents recently took her out of public school in Florida because she is a Florida State Gymnist and is going for regional and national status. And Florida they have a certain number of days they can be absent from school  and over that number  they will have to repeat the grade. Since Kaitlin is a honor student, this would be a disaster so her parents are homeschooling her. In meet season, she misses alot of Fridays and Mondays especially if the meet is out of state which quite a few are. I wonder how she will react if later say in high school she goes back into public school. Kaitlin is outgoing and an only child but she makes friends instantly.  Did your daughter already have friends in school or did she have to make new ones.?  Thanks for your time.I guess I will always wonder what this will do to Kait later on. And good luck to her. I know you are proud of all your girls. They have done well.
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kiakar
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Re: End of Book discussion

Why women write to men in prison.
 
That has always fasinated me. I have known of three cases of this so I will tell you all about them. One woman we will call Dot, had three children and her husband died from cancer.  SHe was in her early thirties . The children were 7,11 and 12. She had been a widow for about two years, a friend gave her the address of a man in prison, saying he was lonely and wanted penpals.She wrote him for two years until he got out. He was in for robbery and they got married.  He molested her oldest daughter at age 14 so she divorced him. I think that ended her penmanship at the local prison.
 
The next was a young girl,Sue, abese and very lonely, she was around 16, got the address from her brother of a friend of his. They wrote for two or three years. It was about that time, she graduated from high school and lost weight and found a really nice guy to marry. I am sure this was bad on the guy in prison, but its usually the lonely and desparate I think that follows this line.
 
The next one is another widow, SHe had been widowed also three years when a friend gave her this man's prison address and she started writinghim. Now Ann, was in her late twenties, had a little boy eight and was raising her late husbands daughter who was 12.  As far as I know, this one is still going on. But I do know the situation, and she is still much in love with her late husband, too she is not considered a beauty by most men even though she is beautiful on the inside. I think she does this for attention from this man. He can't hold her but he can praise her in letters, tell her how great she is. She doesn't want a real committment because  she is still in love with her husband. She still has all his things in her home she had with him. The rent on the house is high and she want look for another house. She still has his truck and doesnt want to sell it. She still has her husbands pictures all over the house. So I really think in her case, she will wake up and find a true love like Sue did. Maybe many years from now but the person in prison has quite a few years.I cant see a kind person like her waiting too long. I do not know what the guy did.
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vivico1
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Re: End of Book discussion


kiakar wrote:
Why women write to men in prison.
That has always fasinated me. I have known of three cases of this so I will tell you all about them. One woman we will call Dot, had three children and her husband died from cancer. SHe was in her early thirties . The children were 7,11 and 12. She had been a widow for about two years, a friend gave her the address of a man in prison, saying he was lonely and wanted penpals.She wrote him for two years until he got out. He was in for robbery and they got married. He molested her oldest daughter at age 14 so she divorced him. I think that ended her penmanship at the local prison.
The next was a young girl,Sue, abese and very lonely, she was around 16, got the address from her brother of a friend of his. They wrote for two or three years. It was about that time, she graduated from high school and lost weight and found a really nice guy to marry. I am sure this was bad on the guy in prison, but its usually the lonely and desparate I think that follows this line.
The next one is another widow, SHe had been widowed also three years when a friend gave her this man's prison address and she started writinghim. Now Ann, was in her late twenties, had a little boy eight and was raising her late husbands daughter who was 12. As far as I know, this one is still going on. But I do know the situation, and she is still much in love with her late husband, too she is not considered a beauty by most men even though she is beautiful on the inside. I think she does this for attention from this man. He can't hold her but he can praise her in letters, tell her how great she is. She doesn't want a real committment because she is still in love with her husband. She still has all his things in her home she had with him. The rent on the house is high and she want look for another house. She still has his truck and doesnt want to sell it. She still has her husbands pictures all over the house. So I really think in her case, she will wake up and find a true love like Sue did. Maybe many years from now but the person in prison has quite a few years.I cant see a kind person like her waiting too long. I do not know what the guy did.



Linda, this is a phenomenon that has always intrigued me. Especially women drawn to the killers and rapists. I do not get it. There is something in women that loves the "bad boys", we see it in movies all the time. They dont like the nice guy who treats them well. They like the dangerous ones. But this is an even bigger version of that. I think these women really don't get HOW bad, these bad boys are, but that's still not enough explanation on what would draw them to write them, rather than to abhor them from the start! The ones I mentioned above. We just had a trial here where a man kidnapped a 9 year old little heavy set redheaded freckled face girl, killed her, has sex with her body then cut her up, was going to eat her. They released the tapes, even online, of his confession interview. I read the transcript, couldnt handle hearing him say what all he did and, I wont say what, but to give you an idea, when he tried to decapitate her, things happened to her body that I NEVER heard about in any movie, tv show, or read. I won't repeat it here but it was real, REAL. I debated sharing the site with people here but let it go. I can not believe this guy will more than likely hear from some woman out there.

There is something else happening here that I think is happening. Much has to do with the reasons you say why women will do this, penpal, loneliness, maybe fascinated but feeling safe, feeling sorry for them because they will write such flattering letters I am sure. This goes back to pre - computer days, when women would write to someone they read about or hear about and maybe even looking for romance. In some ways this is no different to me from when women would read those ads in the back of mags like the "Enquirer", where they could read about someone looking to write or meet someone, you sent your letter to the mag, and they would be the go between and send you all the letters your ad received, you read them and then you decided who to write directly. I know about this because my mother met TWO of her husbands this way. So stupid! Now we have the computer and all this online dating. I have only heard of ONE relationship where a woman met one of these online guys, married him and is ok today in all the years I have heard about them now. I am so anti computer dating for women, I see double when I hear about it. I know a woman who was raped on the first date with a man in a "christian" chat room. One murdered. 5 left their family and jobs and some even their kids to go live with guys that " OH I KNOW HIM, we have talked for 3 months every day and we have seen each other and spent time 3 times now!" AHHHHHHH! Four are back in their home towns, broke, no home, no job and starting over in middle age after 1 year, and one, the youngest one, the 5th one lost custody of her three kids for running off. This is my prejudice here ok, and I know it, but this is my opinion on the men who "date" online, with the ratio of men to women out there, they have the advantage no matter where they live and the older they get, the more women available in their own home town. Now, if they can't get a date in their own home town, women you need to think about why. There IS a reason! Now if he was handicapped and admitted it, I can see why he has all this time to sit online all day and talk to a woman. This may be his way to socialize thats ok. You can say its the same for women tho, and to some extent that is true BUT, a lot of women live in areas that the ratio is so bad, there are no single men to date. And they may be home more and able to be online. And I feel sorry for them. But date where you live geesssh! So you can date! Now, having said that, friends are different lol, I dont think I would have any problem meeting in person some of the women friends I have made in here. Thats very different. :smileywink:

Anyway,there is a correlation between all of these types of "penpal" romances and its usually a very lonely woman, but why men in prison! Tho, if they are in for life, at least they may be safer than some men in those papers or online actually. But I could never write someone who hurt someone and was in prison for it. Something just not clicking about that.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: End of Book discussion


kiakar wrote:
2. Should anyone that commits crimes like this be tried in their hometown or state.?
Since this was a smaller town I believe, it shouldnt take place there, because there are too many people who know everyone in a smaller city. If it was a larger city, maybe an entirely different neighborhood or a small town which is usually around a big city. But honestly, this type of trial, I do not know whether people can stay biast anyway.
It would be a tough job finding jurors that really have no thoughts on this sort of thing. I believe emotions would fly regardless of where it was held.



I think these big news cases are the hardest to get an unbiased jury that there is. I do think they should be moved out of the town, especially if its a small town. Often they will and move them to another place in the same county. I have thought, well what if you try them in a bigger city, where maybe people are so busy they haven't heard AS much about it with all the hustle and bustle of their lives but then I wonder, would someone from a small town, have a "jury of their peers" in a big city?? I dunno. But I really do think it should be moved. In actuality, the reason they don't move cases such as these to other states, is that then the other states would have to foot the bill of the trial and we just dont do that, unless its a federal crime that could be tried in two different jurisdictions, like for example, some kidnapping cases across state lines, or crimes against the government. But even in the OKC bombing case, it was done here, mostly because Oklahoma did NOT want it taken out of this state.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: End of Book discussion


kiakar wrote:
3. Did you think Josie was keeping a real big secret about what happened . She seemed to think she was responsible in some way. Did you think this?
I thought it was because of the relationship she had had with Peter before Matt. She felt quilty for all the taunting her and her friends did toward Peter. I had no clue that she had shot Matt. It never occurred to me.



I too, really thought her big secret, was really that she just felt responsible for leaving him alone and becoming a part of the bullying crowd. I had NO idea that she was the one that killed Matt. WOW! So, in that one moment, when she had to decide if to shoot and who, how much of it do you think was feeling bad or guilt for Peter, and how much do you feel was a reaction to the abuse she too had taken from Matt and in that split second, snapped too, just like Peter had snapped some time before? What was interesting about this, is that very question because it goes back to, just how different are Peter and Josie? She did find her way out of being bullied with him but it was replaced with more abuse, so given the right set of circumstances, was this her, being capable of killing for the same reasons as Peter? Were they really much closer to the same line than it first appeared? If so, it makes you take even another look at how your kids are handling things doesnt it? This is to anyone really. I really think this is a big point of the book, myself.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: End of Book discussion

5. What did you think when you read about Peter killing himself at the end? And can you be sure he did?

You know, I had to read that a couple of times to make sure he was actually killing himself, and not just muffling his own cries or screams as he turned to the wall. I was actually sad that he did in one way. I understand how, I think someone said, they actually felt a bit better at the end that he was gone. But at the same time, I felt like Peter had actually grown some and was understanding things better. I don't know that he was anyone I would ever want to see on the streets again, but after fighting his whole life to just "be", even to the extremely horrible thing that he did trying to achieve it, I felt like now he was learning and might find something for himself but then even he couldn't let himself just "be" in the end. This will sound bad, but I am sure you can understand what I mean. If Peter was never going to be able to just "be", then I wished he would have taken his life, if thats how he was going to end anyway, before that day, those 19 minutes, instead of after.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: End of Book discussion

Thanks Viv!  I agree full hearty with you on all the ones you answered. Hey! We agree!  Well, most of the time we do. right?
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vivico1
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Re: End of Book discussion


kiakar wrote:
Thanks Viv! I agree full hearty with you on all the ones you answered. Hey! We agree! Well, most of the time we do. right?



always, except when we don't linda :smileywink: hehe

p.s. Riverton was still lousy with author given spoilers, no surprises and a blah story tho. LOL
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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onecunninggirl
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Re: End of Book discussion

Hi, I introduced myself a couple of days ago under my husband's login.  I quit being lazy so now I have my own.  Ok so it is 2 AM here and I stayed up because I just couldn't put down the end of this book!  I decided maybe if I came on here and discussed it a little bit I could get my brain to quit racing so I could go to sleep.   I guess here goes...I'm going to answer some of the questions above.
 
1. What feelings did you have once you were through with the book, about it or in general?
This book started out so emotionally draining, I kind of expected that kind of end.  Instead I finished reading the book with my jaw on the ground.  There were parts of this I felt were page turners, and then there were parts where I had to kind of force myself to read more than a couple of pages at a time.  I just really think this is one you have to see through to the end.

2. Should anyone guilty of these types of crimes ever be tried in their home town, or what about even home state for that matter?
This is such a tough question, but I'm not sure you would get a fair shake anywhere.  After the VT shooting recently, we were all inundated with information.  It wasn't just when you turned on the news.  The only way you could get away from it was turn on cable, and even that wasn't 100% safe.  But I defiantly think that it would be so much harder anywhere regionally.  Even if the judge didn't have kids in the school, he may have known someone there, kids/grandkids could be getting ready to go there, or may have been an alum.  I think that it would be hard to be objective.  Alex had such a hard time recussing herself from this case because she saw it as her one big break.  Her daughter had been in the school and lost her boyfriend, and even she didn't see herself as too involved.

3. While you were reading the book, did you feel Josie was keeping a real secret about the incident, or did you feel it was just that she felt it was her fault in some way? What did you think when you found out she was the one who shot Matt?
I honestly thought she was just having some real surviors remorse as well as guilt for the way she had turned on Peter.  I thought that she was having feelings that if she had remained friends with Peter then the shooting never would have happened.  I don't think that she really had the memories until the end of the book, but I think her inability to get over this and crying at a drop of a hat kind of for shadowed the end but not quite the way I thought.  The question kept being asked, why was Matt shot twice.  I honestly thought it was because in Peter's eyes Matt was the reason that Josie wouldn't have anything to do with him as well as Peter was aware of the abuse that Josie was sustaining so I thought he was just taking out his hightened aggression out on him.  When I found out it was Josie who shot Matt, my jaw hit the floor.  I really had never expected it.  I did think that her punishment was maybe slightly harsh.  Again here was a case of battered woman syndrome.  This book really addressed the issues of bulling, but I wish she would have gone into a little more on teenage dating abuse.  That is such a topsy tervy time, and most kids are experiencing love for the first time and it is amazing what you will put up for that.  Matt essentially raped her the night she got pregnant, but yet she stayed.
4. Any overall thoughts about the kids on both sides of this incident?
This is so hard for me to express how I feel about this.  I have taught high school and heaven knows I have seen both sides of this.  I literally had a student turn on me when I was trying to defend him from some bullies.  I really think he was just trying to figure out how to take control in the situation.  I think that Peter was trying to find a way to take control as unsuccessful as it was.  The thing that makes this so hard for me is that as a teacher (this is hard to admit) those students who are outgoing, popular, and athletic have a draw to them.  That is what makes them popular with the kids, and it is often why teachers have a hard time seeing the bad things these kids do.  I think as teachers/adults we sometimes need to take a step back and look a the situation for what it is.  In the end, I was defiantly glad to see Derek deal with the situation like he did, but he himself admitted that he wasn't as bullied as Peter had been.  I was completely saddened by Drew's actions.

5. What did you think when you read about Peter killing himself at the end? And can you be sure he did?
Let me first say, I don't ever think that killing yourself is a good way out of a situation, but I kind of felt that Peter finally deserved to get on that bus triumphantly.  I thought it was an interesting vehicle to take him to his after life (which personally I think was heaven), the location of his first lesson in bulling turns into his way to heaven.  I don't think that you can be 100% sure that Peter killed himself, but I think that the author leaves that to your interpretation.  I think she leaves this open for two reasons.  First, I think that most authors like to leave something up to you.  Secondly, I think that she wanted to make sure that people didn't feel this was the only way out of this situation.

6. What about the two letters from girls that Peter got in prison, for different reasons, should he have answered either of them? And why do you think some women are drawn to killers in prison at all?
Honestly, I don't think either of these letters fit into the catetgory of women writing to killers in prison.  The first was a despicable attempt to coerce an impressionable young man.  Playing on his insecurities.  Peter had to think, wow there is a girl who wants to talk to me because she has been here.  Obviously, because it was a pretense he never should have answered this one.  As far as the letter from the victim, that is such a healing letter.  I know that writing usually helps me solve a lot of things to include fights and disagreements.  When my mom died suddenly, even though I was with her when she died and got to say goodbye it took me 6 months or so to sit down and write her a letter to tell her how upset I was at her decisions, how much it had impacted me, and how much I missed her.  It really was the first step to my healing process.  I don't think that letter truly begged an answer, but I think Peter did answer it by getting on the stand or at least I think that was supposed to be his purpose.  I really don't know why women write to convicted killers, I think that has to do with the draw to the dangerous while remaining safe.  So many of these "killers" are never going to get out, so these women get the thrill of the dangerous relationship while never really having to meet.  Some of these women get drawn in further than I think even they realize, like the one example given in a previous post where the woman married her pen pal and he molested the daughter. 

7. Last thoughts on Alex and Patrick? How about Lacy now?
I was really surprised that Alex and Patrick were able to work it out, because I thought it would be a problem that he had gone to the high school to prove Josie a liar.  But maybe it wasn't such a big deal because she had been lying.  Also I think the pregnancy provided an unbreakable connection between Alex and Patrick, and probably also provided a way for Alex to grieve for her daughter.  I really think that Lacy had started to grieve in her own manner before the trial had even begun.  I would also like to think that this brought Alex and Lacy back to being friends.  I think Alex was able to empathise with her old friend unlike anyone else, and I hope they were able to lean on one another again.

8. Do you believe that Peter was really suffering from PTSD? Was his punishment just? Do you think anyone who does this is suffering from PTSD? Is the death penalty ever warranted in any school mass shooting then?
I truly believe in PTSD, and I think that Peter was suffering from a form of it.  I am not sure that I believe that it could drive someone to killing people, but I guess that is because I have very little experience with it.  But in Peter's case years and years and years of ignored requests for help could really weigh on someone.  I could see where he could have become threatened and felt this was the only way out.  I think that Josie also had some PTSD, and I think hers just finally pooled into the moment that Matt was verbally abusing her.  I think she felt at that moment if she didn't kill him she was going to die herself.  As far as punishment, I think I said this earlier I am not sure that Josie's punishment was just, but I think that Peter's was appropriate because he didn't just kill his tormentors.  And even if Peter had been aquited what kind of life would he have ever had?  Even if he had moved across the country I don't think that he could have ever gotten away from this.  The media would have looked him up on the anniversary or anytime there was another shooting.  I feel like his punishment was the best for this book.  Is the death penalty ever warranted in this kind of case, I'm not really sure.  I used to very much have the opinion an eye for an eye, but that is hard when someone's pride has been stolen, like Peter's, how do you take someone's pride.  So I don't think an eye for an eye is very feasible.  I really think this needs to be a case by case decision, because there have been some school shootings that are nothing about bulling.
 
9. Do you think the masks and personas that we wear in high school, we continue to wear throughout our lives or can we eventually let go of them? Do they stay as part of our personality and just change to new forms as we age? What can we change or not?
Unfortunately, I feel like high school lives with us forever.  I do think that some people effectively shed those skins and move on not only in a new skin but a new body.  They are able to change who that person was, but there are not very many of them.  I think that those of us that were not part of the popular crowd carry some of those scars and some of the insecurities (well maybe for those of us who kind of wanted to belong).  I also know that those popular queen bee types don't go away.  Just get a group of moms together and you will quickly figure out who are the queen bees.  They are the ones that have to top everything, well Chris walked at 11 months, well Joe walked at 10 months.  I don't think most of us can change this because we are not completely aware of the effects high school has.  I think we can do our best to help our own children out throughout high school.
 
 
 
Ok so I think I have finally gotten this out of my system.  I loved this book and would recommend it to anyone.
Karla
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dghobbs
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Re: To Doug Hobbs: About your daughter going to public school after homeschooling



kiakar wrote:
Doug, I would like to know what your take on your daughter going back to high school in a public setting. Does she get any flap about being homeschooled or any type of harsh kidding.? My granddaughter is ten and her parents recently took her out of public school in Florida because she is a Florida State Gymnist and is going for regional and national status. And Florida they have a certain number of days they can be absent from school and over that number they will have to repeat the grade. Since Kaitlin is a honor student, this would be a disaster so her parents are homeschooling her. In meet season, she misses alot of Fridays and Mondays especially if the meet is out of state which quite a few are. I wonder how she will react if later say in high school she goes back into public school. Kaitlin is outgoing and an only child but she makes friends instantly. Did your daughter already have friends in school or did she have to make new ones.? Thanks for your time.I guess I will always wonder what this will do to Kait later on. And good luck to her. I know you are proud of all your girls. They have done well.





I am sure Kaitlin will do fine - I can't believe she is only 10 and has accomplished so much!

Mahala returned to school in her freshman year - since our High School has multiple middle schools sending to it, it was easier for Mahala. She didn't really know anyone at the school. However, she met someone she used to know from Church and they sit at lunch together, along with a regular group of kids. Mahala is picky about who she will allow to get close to her - so she hasn't made many friends at High School. However, she is involved with a Horse Program and has been for the last four years. This is why she would like to become a Veterinarian. She has a number of friends from the program - it meets every Saturday for the entire day. Mahala also works at the barn two days a week, and takes a lesson one other day - so in a normal week she is at the barn four days. That really is her social life.

No-one has bothered her about being Homeschooled, but then, the students wouldn't know that unless she told them. The teachers are aware of her being Homeschooled, but that hasn't impacted her that we know of. Since she tells what goes on, I think we would know. I think the reason it is working out for her, is that she knows what she wants, works hard at it (perhaps too hard), and stays focused. It is amazing for me to see this - I am sure that Kailin's parents must feel the same way. How are they able to focus so well at such young ages?

Given what you said - I think kaitlin (what a beautiful name) will do well wherever she is. The Homeschooling will not hurt her when/if she re-enters Public School - actually, it will probably help, since she will not have had the opportunity to develope the "sick of school" syndrone. I know up here community Colleges allow students to take classes starting at 16, and they are perfectly willing to take in Home-schooled students. My eldest daughter was entirely homeschooled, did well at the sommunity college, and trasferred into an excellent four year college. I think what helped her get in were that she was transferring AND that she was homeschooled. She added to the college's diversity profile by being homeschooled and homeschoolers have a reputation for doing well in college.

I hope I have answered your questions - if not, please write again - my email is dghobbs@nac.net. Also, I am sorry, but I can't seem to remember your name - though I know we interacted on this site quite a bit in the past. :smileyhappy:Doug
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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: End of Book discussion

onecunninggirl wrote:

Ok so I think I have finally gotten this out of my system. I loved this book and would recommend it to anyone.
Karla
__________________________________________________________________________

Wow Karla, you were a busy girl last night! And one deeply in thought about this book. You have some great thoughts there, thank you for sharing them with us. :smileywink: You know, I think you made a good point there about how the popular kids and a lot of the athletes at school tend to draw not only students but a lot of the teachers to them. Sometimes they can be so charming to the teachers or seem like such fun kids that even a teacher doesn't want to think badly of them, or that anything they are doing is more than just good fun or joking. Maybe thats also why some of Peter's teachers were so reluctant to get involved. If that is the case, they may have some personal feelings to deal with after the shooting too. This kind of thing has such a big ripple effect! I think if teachers are aware that they too are drawn to the popular kids, maybe they can think a bit more about this when situations arise, and look at each situation, not just at each kid, because sometimes the Peters of the world don't get seen, until its too late.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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onecunninggirl
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Re: End of Book discussion

Last night it was not my intention to finish this book, I still had about 60-70 pages left, and I thought there is no way to finish this.  Then I just got caught and couldn't put it down.  So I found myself finishing it at around 2 am and I couldn't sleep, I had to get something out about this book.
 
I know that this has profoundly changed me as a mother.  I hope that my boys are liked, but at the same time I hope they are kind.  Can these two things really go hand and hand?  It has also changed me as a former teacher, I really plan on going back to the classroom in some capacity, but I'm still not sure what.  I have always known not to be drawn into these kids like that, and this just reinforces it.  I had a student that the entire staff loved.  They thought he was the best thing since sliced bread, but for whatever reason he showed his true colors to me.  Let me tell you they weren't pretty.  He was mean to the other students, and thought he was God.  But that being said, I wrote him up a couple of times and because the administration thought he was God's gift, my write ups were usually lost, thrown away, or he got a slap.  I really think that teachers and administration need to read this book and see what is happening to those that are getting emotionally left behind.  You know No Child Left Behind (NCLB) really should include emotionally nurturing our students, and if we ignore bulling they we are not doing that.
 
Karla
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kiakar
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Re: To Doug Hobbs: About your daughter going to public school after homeschooling

Doug, thank you so much for writing me about your daughters. It has eased my mine so much. Kaitlin is really ahead of her grade level so I know I shouldn't worry so much. But that is what Grandmothers do. ha.
Kaitlin's mother,my daughter, a social-worker-case worker for hospice and helps with her schooling when Kait's father who is a general college graduate can't teach her. But most is done by her father, that is doing a super job. He has always been good about telling her things she needed to learn just by having a conversation about things in general.  Thanks for your lovely comments about Kaitlin and her name. And your girls all have lovely names and  really have done well. And your daughter Mahala. much luck and wishes for her. She surely has to maintain a high average A to get in a Vet. college. My oldest daughter's daughter,Megan graduates from Va. Tech next year and wants to also be a vet but her grades are not at the highest level of A's, so these last two years she has taken some medical classes and will graduate high enought to go to Physicians Assistance College. But I really feel her dream have always been to go to Vets school. She is going to apply to both but if it takes a few years to get in to Vets school she will decide what to do then. She is very practical also. Oh! My name is Linda Huff.
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Wrighty
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Re: End of Book discussion



kiakar wrote:
1. What feelings do you have since you have finished the book?
 
Certainly I was surprised by the fact of Josie shooting the gun. Like I have said, Jodi is noted for her off the wall surprise endings. I know books of this sort, should help people see how wrong both parties were. Not just the bully but his killer also. And that there are consequences for acts of violence toward others. But to me, the punishment was a bit severe with as many facts as was presented to the jury. But its strange I felt this way, but it was like I was relieved when Peter did kill himself. That is terrible but I did feel that relief sieve through me when I read this.


Wow! There are so many great comments here, I love it! This was a great book and I'm glad we have more people here to discuss it. I also knew there would be some twist at the end but i didn't know what it would be. Jodi does a great job with her books and you're never disappointed. I was very emotional throughout the book too. I have teenagers and with all of the school shooting in real life it hits so close to home. It's a very scary topic with no easy fix.
 
 I really liked the characters in this book. Even with the terrible crimes that Peter committed I still liked him and hated the thought of him going to prison. I wondered if that would be the twist to this story, that he didn't end up going, but I have to say that he did deserve the punishment for killing all of those people. And I felt the same way you did Linda about his suicide. Of course I didn't really want that for him but I didn't want him to suffer any more either. You know that prison would be horrible for him. It was mentioned several times in the book that he just didn't know how to act and speak in certain situations. It wasn't just about him being a nerd, or shy that he was picked on. He never fit in and everyone knew it. Suicide was a terrible solution but I can understand how he would think it was the only solution for him. Despite his crimes he deserved peace and a place in heaven.
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Wrighty
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Josie's secret



vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:
3. Did you think Josie was keeping a real big secret about what happened . She seemed to think she was responsible in some way. Did you think this?
I thought it was because of the relationship she had had with Peter before Matt. She felt quilty for all the taunting her and her friends did toward Peter. I had no clue that she had shot Matt. It never occurred to me.


I too, really thought her big secret, was really that she just felt responsible for leaving him alone and becoming a part of the bullying crowd. I had NO idea that she was the one that killed Matt. WOW! So, in that one moment, when she had to decide if to shoot and who, how much of it do you think was feeling bad or guilt for Peter, and how much do you feel was a reaction to the abuse she too had taken from Matt and in that split second, snapped too, just like Peter had snapped some time before? What was interesting about this, is that very question because it goes back to, just how different are Peter and Josie? She did find her way out of being bullied with him but it was replaced with more abuse, so given the right set of circumstances, was this her, being capable of killing for the same reasons as Peter? Were they really much closer to the same line than it first appeared? If so, it makes you take even another look at how your kids are handling things doesnt it? This is to anyone really. I really think this is a big point of the book, myself.

I knew she had a secret about something that happened when Matt was shot. He was the only one who was shot twice and I did think it had something to do with the way Peter felt toward Josie. I thought something more happened in that scenario than Peter just chasing him and shooting him and I thought Josie had witnessed it all. I had no idea that she had been the one to do it. That was a shocker but after I read it I could see how Jodi set it up so it could happen. It was a heated exchange full of panic and shock from the deaths of classmates. No one was in their right mind and it was Josie's chance to escape her abusive relationship. Jodi has great endings in her books and I never see the twist coming.
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