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vivico1
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Josie and Matt

Ok, I would think there could be a lot of talk about Matt and Josie's relationship, so lets see what you think. Also, since much of it develops clear to the end, and some are still reading, please remember spoiler warnings and maybe break up the discussion into two separate posts if you need to, so you can talk about one aspect of it, and not the other in the same post. Would that help? For example, here I will stay general, cause oh man I have some other things to say later about them lol. But for now, what do you think about them getting so close so young and having sex so young. And if I am remembering right, they did hook up very young,like middle school? I know a lot of parents that try to get their kids to not be too exclusive too soon, 8th or 9th grade, some younger, so they may have a better chance of not getting in trouble so young, or hurt so young by investing so much in one person so soon. I worried about Josie and Matt being this involved this young and I don't know if Alex condone's it or just really doesnt get how close they are because she's caught up in her own world and doesnt really relate well to Josie anyway. I will just leave this question at this point here.I have a whole book question about them for later lol.So many questions! :smileywink:

When I was a kid,I hung out with the boys more most of my life. I was a tomboy lol, but also I had what I thought were "boyfriends", oh shoot as early as 3rd grade, I still remember his name, Jonathan LOL! But in reality, as far as being allowed to actually DATE date, I dont remember what age it was for me. What age do you guys allow your kids to start dating? If you dont mind saying that is. Or just in general, what age do you think is too young to date. What about group dates with other kids or like supervised dates, i.e. school dances, church activities, etc.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Josie and Matt



vivico1 wrote:
Ok, I would think there could be a lot of talk about Matt and Josie's relationship, so lets see what you think. Also, since much of it develops clear to the end, and some are still reading, please remember spoiler warnings and maybe break up the discussion into two separate posts if you need to, so you can talk about one aspect of it, and not the other in the same post. Would that help? For example, here I will stay general, cause oh man I have some other things to say later about them lol. But for now, what do you think about them getting so close so young and having sex so young. And if I am remembering right, they did hook up very young,like middle school? I know a lot of parents that try to get their kids to not be too exclusive too soon, 8th or 9th grade, some younger, so they may have a better chance of not getting in trouble so young, or hurt so young by investing so much in one person so soon. I worried about Josie and Matt being this involved this young and I don't know if Alex condone's it or just really doesnt get how close they are because she's caught up in her own world and doesnt really relate well to Josie anyway. I will just leave this question at this point here.I have a whole book question about them for later lol.So many questions! :smileywink:

When I was a kid,I hung out with the boys more most of my life. I was a tomboy lol, but also I had what I thought were "boyfriends", oh shoot as early as 3rd grade, I still remember his name, Jonathan LOL! But in reality, as far as being allowed to actually DATE date, I dont remember what age it was for me. What age do you guys allow your kids to start dating? If you dont mind saying that is. Or just in general, what age do you think is too young to date. What about group dates with other kids or like supervised dates, i.e. school dances, church activities, etc.

I was always firm with my girls. They had to be 16 for a single date that is without a group. My girls attended a baptist church when they were growing up so they were into alot of groups doing things together. None of them disobeyed me about that. IT was also the age they could drive but not until I drove with them a few times and approved it. My oldest girl stayed in the girl scouts until she was 17 so she never wanted to go on single dates until after that. My son didnt like girls young. He was into sports and stuff.
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vivico1
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Re: Josie and Matt


kiakar wrote:
.

I was always firm with my girls. They had to be 16 for a single date that is without a group. My girls attended a baptist church when they were growing up so they were into alot of groups doing things together. None of them disobeyed me about that. IT was also the age they could drive but not until I drove with them a few times and approved it. My oldest girl stayed in the girl scouts until she was 17 so she never wanted to go on single dates until after that. My son didnt like girls young. He was into sports and stuff.



So what do you think about Josie and Matt's relationship then.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Josie and Matt



vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:
.

I was always firm with my girls. They had to be 16 for a single date that is without a group. My girls attended a baptist church when they were growing up so they were into alot of groups doing things together. None of them disobeyed me about that. IT was also the age they could drive but not until I drove with them a few times and approved it. My oldest girl stayed in the girl scouts until she was 17 so she never wanted to go on single dates until after that. My son didnt like girls young. He was into sports and stuff.



So what do you think about Josie and Matt's relationship then.

I feel they had too much of a relationship too soon to know how to handle it. Josie especially felt lonely and unwanted alot because her mother always was working so her vulubility was heavy with wanting to be loved. And guys do convince girls, if they really love him, you would. They still do. It was an article in my paper today about how many girls, whey on up there, that have had veneral disease and not even 18. It is repungent. and the main reason is not keeping teenagers busy and involved in worthwhile causes. The fact, some parents want their kids to grow up before they are able but its a fact, that teenager will fail if pushed to soon to become an adult, or let the child become an adult too soon. A parent has the reigns, not the child, and no one should hurry that child in growing up. Like I said about my daughters, if they aren't ready to date or drive at a certain age then they should wait until they are. And it is up to the parent. They can ruin their lives in a heart beat if not mature and responsible in what they are doing. And not being at home with Josie, Alex couldnt judge what was going on with Josie, her emotional state and talk talk and do some more talking.
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vivico1
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Re: Josie and Matt


kiakar wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:
.

I was always firm with my girls. They had to be 16 for a single date that is without a group. My girls attended a baptist church when they were growing up so they were into alot of groups doing things together. None of them disobeyed me about that. IT was also the age they could drive but not until I drove with them a few times and approved it. My oldest girl stayed in the girl scouts until she was 17 so she never wanted to go on single dates until after that. My son didnt like girls young. He was into sports and stuff.



So what do you think about Josie and Matt's relationship then.

I feel they had too much of a relationship too soon to know how to handle it. Josie especially felt lonely and unwanted alot because her mother always was working so her vulubility was heavy with wanting to be loved. And guys do convince girls, if they really love him, you would. They still do. It was an article in my paper today about how many girls, whey on up there, that have had veneral disease and not even 18. It is repungent. and the main reason is not keeping teenagers busy and involved in worthwhile causes. The fact, some parents want their kids to grow up before they are able but its a fact, that teenager will fail if pushed to soon to become an adult, or let the child become an adult too soon. A parent has the reigns, not the child, and no one should hurry that child in growing up. Like I said about my daughters, if they aren't ready to date or drive at a certain age then they should wait until they are. And it is up to the parent. They can ruin their lives in a heart beat if not mature and responsible in what they are doing. And not being at home with Josie, Alex couldnt judge what was going on with Josie, her emotional state and talk talk and do some more talking.



They just said on the news here, that new studies show ONE out of EVERY FOUR teenagers, now have an STD. But heaven forbid someone should teach abstinence! You can talk up condoms all you want and to me, all I see happening is kids are understanding that means its ok to have sex but are NOT using the condoms either! Teaching teens and preteens to use condoms, is not teaching them why both physically and emotionally and for many religiously, why they should not be having sex, and every new study is showing just what I said above, 1 out of 4 have std's, so at least 1 out of 4 are having sex, obviously more,this just says 1 out of every 4 teenagers period have an std. Now that is really sad. But people just roll their eyes when you want to talk to them about teaching kids about the value of abstinence, or any kind of self control for that matter.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Stephanie
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Re: Josie and Matt

Vivian,
 
You hit the nail on the head- Self-control.  That's the actual key.  Oh, for kids to learn that they don't have to do or say every little thing that pops into their heads.  Maturity is at an all time low, too.  So is self-centeredness.  
 
Linda- you sure had the right idea, keeping your daughter in Girl Scouts.  I bet that made a huge difference. 
 
 
Stephanie
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kiakar
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Re: Josie and Matt




They just said on the news here, that new studies show ONE out of EVERY FOUR teenagers, now have an STD. But heaven forbid someone should teach abstinence! You can talk up condoms all you want and to me, all I see happening is kids are understanding that means its ok to have sex but are NOT using the condoms either! Teaching teens and preteens to use condoms, is not teaching them why both physically and emotionally and for many religiously, why they should not be having sex, and every new study is showing just what I said above, 1 out of 4 have std's, so at least 1 out of 4 are having sex, obviously more,this just says 1 out of every 4 teenagers period have an std. Now that is really sad. But people just roll their eyes when you want to talk to them about teaching kids about the value of abstinence, or any kind of self control for that matter.

You are so very right!  The reason parents don't and the govn't leaders also  is its to darn hard for them to do this. It would mean keeping the students motivated,active,encouragment all the time,attention galore, raving reviews to them constantly and sit down and really talk, talk and more talk.
Be almost as visible to them as you did with your infant. I am not exaggarating at all! And anything else out there that puts the limelight on them alone.
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kiakar
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Re: Josie and Matt



Stephanie wrote:
Vivian,
 
You hit the nail on the head- Self-control.  That's the actual key.  Oh, for kids to learn that they don't have to do or say every little thing that pops into their heads.  Maturity is at an all time low, too.  So is self-centeredness.  
 
Linda- you sure had the right idea, keeping your daughter in Girl Scouts.  I bet that made a huge difference. 
 
 


Yes, Stephanie I really think it did. All three of my girls have done good in their lives but the oldest that stayed in the scouts, she is the kindest of the three. And her children are turning out just as good as she did.
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Stephanie
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Re: Josie and Matt

Linda,
 
Good for her!  I hope her girls join scouts as well.  I need to find a new troop for my daughter, the one she was in is filled with older girls, and she really didn't have any true friends. 
 
 
Stephanie
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JEHabs
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Re: Josie and Matt

It really is sad how Josie's self esteem plays a huge role in her sexual relationship.  I know from my high school and even middle school experience that being active (not sexually though) kept me out of trouble.  My parents stressed a strong work ethic but also being involved.  I started playing after school sports in 3rd grade and kept with it until I was a senior.  Once I quit I was bored and then I began finding things to do which usually leads kids to trouble.  If your kids have found a niche in Girls Scouts or anything that will keep them from getting bored and finding their own trouble you are probably going to be fine.  My mom still likes to remind me "You only need to start worrying when you don't hear them playing, then you need to check on them because that is when they are up to no good."  Funny, I never thought all those years ago I would be quoting my mom but I guess she is wiser than I give her credit for...
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Wrighty
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Re: Josie and Matt



JEHabs wrote:
It really is sad how Josie's self esteem plays a huge role in her sexual relationship.  I know from my high school and even middle school experience that being active (not sexually though) kept me out of trouble.  My parents stressed a strong work ethic but also being involved.  I started playing after school sports in 3rd grade and kept with it until I was a senior.  Once I quit I was bored and then I began finding things to do which usually leads kids to trouble.  If your kids have found a niche in Girls Scouts or anything that will keep them from getting bored and finding their own trouble you are probably going to be fine.  My mom still likes to remind me "You only need to start worrying when you don't hear them playing, then you need to check on them because that is when they are up to no good."  Funny, I never thought all those years ago I would be quoting my mom but I guess she is wiser than I give her credit for...


Josie did have very low self esteem and she was constantly looking for compliments and encouragement from others. We all need that but she was desperate for it but no one knew her true feelings. She was very good at hiding her insecurities. Why would anyone think a girl that's part of the popular crowd and is dating Matt would have low self esteem?
 
In reference to sex education I'm all for it. I think the more information you have the more informed your choices will be. I'm all for abstinence and think it should always be encouraged but with good explanations why. If teens are told that it's the best choice, that good kids would make that choice or it's immoral to make any other choice but don't supply any education to enforce it many kids will still be confused, may still become sexually active but than have a good chance of feeling guilty and thinking sex is bad their whole life. It's not good kid vs. bad kid. If they are taught that it's the only sure way to prevent diseases and pregnancy but are also taught biology, what a teen's body is going through and why they feel the way they do physically and emotionally then hopefully they will have a better understanding of themselves. And I absolutely think that birth control should be taught. There are some things that the school can provide with permission from the parents and if the parents feel that some of it is too personal than they should find another way to educate their children. It's very hard sometimes to discuss these issues and many people can't do it. That's when you need help from other sources. Let's face it, teen sex is going to happen... often. Kids need to learn self control but it's not an easy thing for most of them to practice. Those hormones are raging and where there's a will there's a way. They can always find some place to do it.
 
Kids are also getting younger and younger when they become sexually active. Many of them also have a huge misunderstanding of what sex is. Oral sex doesn't seem to count for many of them. If you can't get pregnant it's not sex. And there are so many sex games that promotes that way of thinking. There are contests to see how many boys a girl can have oral sex with. They may not even know each other but that's not an issue for them. It's like a new version of spin the bottle. A few years ago there was the game where the girls wore different colored plastic bracelets and each bracelet meant something different. For example red meant kissing, blue meant oral sex, green meant touching above the waist, black meant intercourse, etc. The two games that I heard about were where the girls wore the colors of the acts they had participated in so everyone knew what they had been doing. Another version was where the girls would wear all of the colors and the boys were suppose to try to remove them. Any color they took the girl had to perform that act with him. Has anyone else ever heard of these? I don't know if these are still activities that kids participate in now, I'm sure there are many new ones out there. But these are also middle school kids doing this and the idea is that it's just for fun and it's not real sex. They don't comprehend the potential for great harm and huge consequences. That's why I think education and options are so very important.
 
Just today on one of the morning shows they were also talking about the 1 in 4 rate for the STDs. They said that we are behind most of the developed European countries when it comes to education. They have fewer teen pregnancies and fewer STDs. That's very sad.
 
I know my opinions won't be popular and I'm not disagreeing with what others have said here but I think we are fooling ourselves if we think there is an easy fix like abstinence only. Too many people are in denial about how dangerous it can be. It's easy to tell someone else what to do, especially if we are older and maybe wiser. The teenage years are hard with so many changes. Our kids need all of the help and all of the support they can get.

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vivico1
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Re: Josie and Matt

I have a problem with the idea, of, lets face it, teens are going to have sex, and often. Why? are they more hormonal than any other generation? Did we not have raging hormones and yes sex did happen but not at this alarming rate and not in middle school. If 1 in 4 have STDs, then like I said, what does that say about how many are having sex, that its not reported in. To say, well its going to happen, get real and get them condoms, is really just a cop out on our responsibilities to our own kids. This isnt about good vs bad kids either and I dont know one kid who was taught abstinence and if they had sex, felt it was bad all their lives lol. Its too darn good to feel that forever! if they are taught why abstinence is important to them, and everyone concerned and that they have the power within them to not go along, be strong, resist and still be liked, you have given them tools that will make them feel good about themselves and help them make other life choices too.

I would not want my school handing out condoms and basically putting more pressure on my child that they SHOULD be having sex because even the school says its ok and the boys are going to tell them that too and telling other boys that too. Teach the kids in biology or at some level, about sexually transmitted diseases as part of understanding the body if you like, give them good information about it that way, but dont then teach them that well as horrible as this is, "we just know you are going to have sex anyway so heres a condom". Now how much did you just knock the power out of the lesson by doing that? If you want proof, just look at the numbers quoted again. 1 out of 4 kids. Do you think that means, only in schools where they dont teach kids to use condoms or dont give them out? Teaching them to use condoms isnt helping the stats on STDs anymore than it does with grown people. Adults know about condoms, how many use them?

Somewhere along the line, you have to help kids, whose frontal lobe, where control abilities are centered, is not even fully developed yet, understand more than just the physical act of sex. Sex is not just physical, especially with kids and growing emotions. If we teach the kids, lets say, an ethics class or something, basic moral principles (doesn't have to be religious to be moral) about the issues involved in having sex, if they can connect it to something else of importance in their lives aside from, if your going to do it, use this, maybe we can gain back some of the feelings about respecting your own body, others bodies, and those to come, that we have lost to this generation of kids because of emotionally missing parents, like Alex, sex on tv between basically kids, PG movies that one decade ago would have been R AND enforced. We bombard them with the idea that this is normal, but its not even normal to the human body. Girls have their periods younger but that doesnt mean the body is ready for sex even if biology has always taught us thats what it is saying. A ten year old's body is not ready for sex, forget the emotional side. Even science is having to re-evaluate that idea in view of earlier hormonal changes happening in people and why.

This is as much an issue of self esteem as any raging hormonal issue. If people really want schools to turn over their parental role of being involved in their kids lives on such a life altering facet, then if they are going to teach sex education and talk up condom use and even hand them out, they should be spending just as much time teaching abstinence and all the reasons for it too. What bothers me the most is that people roll their eyes about talking about abstinence to their kids or having it taught. Of course they are having sex, adults don't want to be bothered with what is a more involved lesson, that of abstinence and why should they, they dont believe kids could make a different decision than to have sex anyway. To not teach both and only condoms is doing as big a disservice to our youth as to say, dont do drugs but if your going to, come get the needles from us. Remember that one? Even kids didnt buy that one. Well they arent buying the condoms lectures either so they are having unprotected sex because who is going to teach them another option and yes, teach them that sex is more than just intercourse. Teach them just straight out, this is sex, this is sex, this is leading to sex, sex will be harder to stop by doing this because of how you both feel, and you need to know that. Ok ok, I will stop. I always feel like I am spitting into the wind on this issue anymore anyway.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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teens and sex



vivico1 wrote:
I have a problem with the idea, of, lets face it, teens are going to have sex, and often. Why? are they more hormonal than any other generation? Did we not have raging hormones and yes sex did happen but not at this alarming rate and not in middle school. If 1 in 4 have STDs, then like I said, what does that say about how many are having sex, that its not reported in. To say, well its going to happen, get real and get them condoms, is really just a cop out on our responsibilities to our own kids. This isnt about good vs bad kids either and I dont know one kid who was taught abstinence and if they had sex, felt it was bad all their lives lol. Its too darn good to feel that forever! if they are taught why abstinence is important to them, and everyone concerned and that they have the power within them to not go along, be strong, resist and still be liked, you have given them tools that will make them feel good about themselves and help them make other life choices too.
 
Wrighty wrote:
Yes teens are more hormonal and they develop much faster than ever before too. Teens are going to have sex but nobody said to just give them condoms. In my opinion it's a cop out to only teach abstinence. I said that I absolutely agree with teaching it but along with as much education as possible, involving the parents and providing or telling them where to find birth control. It's terrific to teach them self esteem and self control but it's not always easy to practice it. They shouldn't be punished by disease, death or unwanted pregnancies if they couldn't resist. And boy do I ever know people that were taught abstinence only and then felt guilty when they did have sex. I have many Catholic friends who have been through that exact scenario. They are dedicated to their religion but "Catholic guilt" is  their joking catch phrase for many instances.
----------------------


I would not want my school handing out condoms and basically putting more pressure on my child that they SHOULD be having sex because even the school says its ok and the boys are going to tell them that too and telling other boys that too. Teach the kids in biology or at some level, about sexually transmitted diseases as part of understanding the body if you like, give them good information about it that way, but dont then teach them that well as horrible as this is, "we just know you are going to have sex anyway so heres a condom". Now how much did you just knock the power out of the lesson by doing that? If you want proof, just look at the numbers quoted again. 1 out of 4 kids. Do you think that means, only in schools where they dont teach kids to use condoms or dont give them out? Teaching them to use condoms isnt helping the stats on STDs anymore than it does with grown people. Adults know about condoms, how many use them?
 
Schools don't have to hand out condoms, there are other ways but why would having access to them make them feel like they should have sex? If someone plans to say no they'll say no anyway won't they? Having birth control and condoms is just a way to protect people who DO decide to have sex, it doesn't make you have sex. Why is education and protection "knocking the power out of the lesson"? What are the people suppose to do who do decide to have sex, NOT us any protection? And I wouldn't want anyone teaching anything about sex if they were to say "we just know you are going to have sex anyway so here's a condom." The proof in the numbers of 1 out of 4 girls having STDs is that they DIDN'T have any protection not that someone gave them a condom. If they were used by everyone, including adults then we wouldn't have those stats.
------------------------


Somewhere along the line, you have to help kids, whose frontal lobe, where control abilities are centered, is not even fully developed yet, understand more than just the physical act of sex. Sex is not just physical, especially with kids and growing emotions. If we teach the kids, lets say, an ethics class or something, basic moral principles (doesn't have to be religious to be moral) about the issues involved in having sex, if they can connect it to something else of importance in their lives aside from, if your going to do it, use this, maybe we can gain back some of the feelings about respecting your own body, others bodies, and those to come, that we have lost to this generation of kids because of emotionally missing parents, like Alex, sex on tv between basically kids, PG movies that one decade ago would have been R AND enforced. We bombard them with the idea that this is normal, but its not even normal to the human body. Girls have their periods younger but that doesnt mean the body is ready for sex even if biology has always taught us thats what it is saying. A ten year old's body is not ready for sex, forget the emotional side. Even science is having to re-evaluate that idea in view of earlier hormonal changes happening in people and why.
I agree, it's a complicated issue at a complicated age. They need education and resources on all kinds of issues. Our society is very sexual, TV, magazines, advertising, clothing, people in the spotlight - it's everywhere and kids are being exposed to it younger than ever.
-----------------------


This is as much an issue of self esteem as any raging hormonal issue. If people really want schools to turn over their parental role of being involved in their kids lives on such a life altering facet, then if they are going to teach sex education and talk up condom use and even hand them out, they should be spending just as much time teaching abstinence and all the reasons for it too. What bothers me the most is that people roll their eyes about talking about abstinence to their kids or having it taught. Of course they are having sex, adults don't want to be bothered with what is a more involved lesson, that of abstinence and why should they, they dont believe kids could make a different decision than to have sex anyway. To not teach both and only condoms is doing as big a disservice to our youth as to say, dont do drugs but if your going to, come get the needles from us. Remember that one? Even kids didnt buy that one. Well they arent buying the condoms lectures either so they are having unprotected sex because who is going to teach them another option and yes, teach them that sex is more than just intercourse. Teach them just straight out, this is sex, this is sex, this is leading to sex, sex will be harder to stop by doing this because of how you both feel, and you need to know that. Ok ok, I will stop. I always feel like I am spitting into the wind on this issue anymore anyway.
 
Again, no one said to just hand out condoms. And there are many parents who are lax in teaching their children but there are many who are doing the best they can with what they have. It's not easy. If the parents and the schools could work together to teach everything possible and to make them familiar with the services out there liked Planned Parenthood kids would be so much smarter about their choices. It takes a village to raise a child, especially these days. And it's scary as hell.


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vivico1
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Re: teens and sex

vivico1 wrote:
I would not want my school handing out condoms and basically putting more pressure on my child that they SHOULD be having sex because even the school says its ok and the boys are going to tell them that too and telling other boys that too. Teach the kids in biology or at some level, about sexually transmitted diseases as part of understanding the body if you like, give them good information about it that way, but dont then teach them that well as horrible as this is, "we just know you are going to have sex anyway so heres a condom". Now how much did you just knock the power out of the lesson by doing that? If you want proof, just look at the numbers quoted again. 1 out of 4 kids. Do you think that means, only in schools where they dont teach kids to use condoms or dont give them out? Teaching them to use condoms isnt helping the stats on STDs anymore than it does with grown people. Adults know about condoms, how many use them?

wrighty wrote:
Schools don't have to hand out condoms, there are other ways but why would having access to them make them feel like they should have sex? If someone plans to say no they'll say no anyway won't they? Having birth control and condoms is just a way to protect people who DO decide to have sex, it doesn't make you have sex. Why is education and protection "knocking the power out of the lesson"? What are the people suppose to do who do decide to have sex, NOT us any protection? And I wouldn't want anyone teaching anything about sex if they were to say "we just know you are going to have sex anyway so here's a condom." The proof in the numbers of 1 out of 4 girls having STDs is that they DIDN'T have any protection not that someone gave them a condom. If they were used by everyone, including adults then we wouldn't have those stats.
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If someone plans to say no they'll say no anyway won't they? Having birth control and condoms is just a way to protect people who DO decide to have sex, it doesn't make you have sex. When I say the schools who give out condoms are putting more pressure on kids to have sex, that they should, I mean that the school is an authority figure and when a kid hears the school say, if you do have sex, use these tho, to protect yourself, what part of that do kids really hear? And when some boy tells a girl, if you really loved me you would, and backs it up with, the school says its ok, if we use a condom...cause thats the message their young head hears or just flat wants to hear...then the girls are going to not only feel the pressure of their boyfriend but that hes backing it up with the school system too! If someone plans to say no, they will say no anyway?? That all depends, and thats what I am saying needs to be addressed more because we all know that you can plan to do this or that or not to and fall to peer pressure, just like other aspects of this book, the kids do. Heck, even adult women will back down from a condom if the man begs just right we know that too. So what it boils down to is, if you plan to say no, do you have it set in your mind why you are going to say no and why its important to you individually to say no, what it means to you, or the "just say no" idea to anything fails. Being taught about God's law of chastity in any religion, Catholic or any religion, I would hope would not only teach you why God says no, not just that he does, but why, and what the blessings are and if we are putting this in the religious sphere, if that religion doesn't teach about repentance and the real meaning of the atonement, then its not just going to be sex you feel guilt about throughout your life, its everything the natural man in us is tested by and fails from time to time. So any adult that feels so guilty about having sex in their marriage still doesn't get the teachings or never really got into it as a family anyway. I could really get into the religious side of this but it wont be heard, or it will be thought that I am just "not living in the real world" when I know what the real world is and I know the power of God in our lives, but you have to believe it. And if adults dont, how do we teach our kids to. We have the perfect absolute information to give kids about how to absolutely be sure they wont get diseases or get pregnant, its guaranteed. Its a commandment too, but one with a blessing, which is why its given, to absolutely protect us beyond any protection man can offer ever in the world and so He gives us that info, that commandment out of absolute love. I know some parents "aren't religious", so they dont believe it, dont want to teach it, dont believe their kids will follow it, prefer to have a backup plan because surely science is a better way. Well, its their kids and they will be as responsible for what they don't teach at home too. Ok, there's my Sunday sermon, on Sunday lol. And Wrighty, you know this is not aimed AT you, but at the idea of "abstinence is outdated or doesn't work". Anyway..
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: teens and sex

[ Edited ]

 
 
My point is that there is no easy answer but the more resources the better. Schools need to be involved but not necessarily handing out the birth control. Those choices would have to be up to the families and the schools.  There are many different ways to handle helping teens through this stage of their lives and I think the more options they have the better. It's all about personal choice but isn't it better if we have informed choices? It has not been said at all that there is anything wrong with abstinence. If that's the choice than good for them. I have said that I think it should be taught but I feel that other things should be taught as well. That does not in any way mean that sex would be encouraged. That's not the same thing, it's just education. None of us are perfect and we all fail sometimes. It would be nice if our kids didn't have quite so far to fall.
 
(When I mentioned people feeling guilty about sex I didn't mean in the marriage I meant having sex as a teenager. Some people feel guilty that they did because they were taught that  they weren't suppose to. They still did it though.)



Message Edited by Wrighty on 03-17-2008 01:52 AM
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vivico1
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Re: teens and sex


Wrighty wrote:

My point is that there is no easy answer but the more resources the better. Schools need to be involved but not necessarily handing out the birth control. Those choices would have to be up to the families and the schools. There are many different ways to handle helping teens through this stage of their lives and I think the more options they have the better. It's all about personal choice but isn't it better if we have informed choices? It has not been said at all that there is anything wrong with abstinence. If that's the choice than good for them. I have said that I think it should be taught but I feel that other things should be taught as well. That does not in any way mean that sex would be encouraged. That's not the same thing, it's just education. None of us are perfect and we all fail sometimes. It would be nice if our kids didn't have quite so far to fall.
(When I mentioned people feeling guilty about sex I didn't mean in the marriage I meant having sex as a teenager. Some people feel guilty that they did because they were taught that they weren't suppose to. They still did it though.)



Message Edited by Wrighty on 03-17-2008 01:52 AM


I know wrighty, and your right, its a tough subject with no easy answers. And I never meant to say to teach abstinence only either. I just would like to see that if protection is going to be taught in school, that it gets equal time to all other options, because for the most part it doesn't. And I would really like to see some counseling about emotional issues go along with that. I think thats so darn important. That to me, more than anything else is whats going to help kids decide what they are or are not going to do.

As for the kids feeling guilty after having sex.. hey sometimes a little guilt is a good thing :smileywink:! It can move you to think about your decisions about a lot of things and change them. Even in something that is not so life threatening or altering. Like, if a kid or anyone, feels guilty that they said something that really hurt someone, then maybe that guilt will move them to do something about it and be more careful next time. Guilt is not always a bad thing. :smileywink: Actually, some guilt on the part of these bullying kids, might have saved their lives!

OH by the way, anyone see that special 20/20 (I think it was) on sexual behavior and also about teens getting put on the national sex offender lists, losing the possibility of many many jobs, including law enforcement or teaching, having to tell their neighbors, or their neighbors finding them and sometimes hurting them, because they had consensual teenage sex and the system prosecutes them under the statutory rape law?? Now this is soo wrong and this IS going too far! They talked about several high school seniors whose pics are side by side on the registers with predictors and child abusers, saying just simply, sex with a minor or child! They shouldnt be on there at all, and even if they are on there, it should say, had sex with a 15 year old freshman in school when he was an 18 year old senior! But this is following them their whole life and most of the kids they talked to didnt even know there was a law against it. Now this is something that needs changed and in the mean time, talk about something you need to be teaching the kids about teen sex! They almost put two 13 year old boys in the sex register for slapping girls on the butt, on what they called slap butt friday. One of the girls said, this is nothing sexual and the girls do it too, we just run by someone and slap them on the butt and they have to pass it on. (its kinda like a game of tag and they arent grabbing or fondling, just slap and run). But these two boys almost got jail time (well they were in for 5 days waiting for arraignment) and on the sex offender registry. What is happening in this country, run a 13 year old's life for slap Friday, yet pass a bill to put guns in the hands of those just out of their teens, or 18 for some!
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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jennren
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Re: Josie and Matt

I am actually not finished reading the book yet (about 1/2 to go!), but what I noticed is that everyone gets so focused on these teens being prematurely sexually active, that they forget that Matt was also physically abusive to Josie. I think that is just as sad as them being sexually active at such a young age. I think it is appalling that Matt was so physical with her beginning at such a young age. (It's actually appalling at any age, but...)
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vivico1
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Re: Josie and Matt


jennren wrote:
I am actually not finished reading the book yet (about 1/2 to go!), but what I noticed is that everyone gets so focused on these teens being prematurely sexually active, that they forget that Matt was also physically abusive to Josie. I think that is just as sad as them being sexually active at such a young age. I think it is appalling that Matt was so physical with her beginning at such a young age. (It's actually appalling at any age, but...)



Jennren,
Actually, we did think about it, so much so that it is on a thread of its own really, check the thread (abusive relationships). Both issues, teenage sex and abusive relationships are such big issues, that we just kind of separated them out to give everyone a chance to cover one or both issues more thoroughly. Trust me, that aspect bothers us all as much as you and you're right to bring it up. I hope knowing we have a place of discussion on it here will help. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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jennren
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Re: Josie and Matt

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking everyone for ignoring the abuse part of the relationship. I re-read what I had written and I sounded a little brash. I was being selective in the posts I was reading because I wasn't finished with the book yet. I didn't want to run into any spoilers!!
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vivico1
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Re: Josie and Matt


jennren wrote:
I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking everyone for ignoring the abuse part of the relationship. I re-read what I had written and I sounded a little brash. I was being selective in the posts I was reading because I wasn't finished with the book yet. I didn't want to run into any spoilers!!



no no, you didnt sound attacking at all. Don't worry about it. You just sounded like we do LOL. :smileywink: Also, there are so few in here, we are being really pretty careful about spoilers, so you can check out about any thread, they are pretty general questions or will tell you if they are spoilers. Mostly if you are half way through the book, you should not run into real spoilers unless you open the , end of book thread. Most readers in here aren't thru but we hate spoilers too, so give those other threads a try. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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