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vivico1
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Notes or Journal Entries

Before the beginning of some chapters, there are notes written, chilling notes. You may have even skimmed through the book looking for those just to read, and then to come back to them when you get to that chapter. They are hard to let go of. The very first one caught my eye as much as the first paragragh did. "By the time you read this, I hope to be dead..........More importantly will I miss you? Does either one of us really want to hear the answer to that question?"

This note made my heart race. I was wondering on your thoughts about it when you first read it. Or any of them, this may need a spoiler warning past the first 100 pages if you quote any but thats ok. This first one about broke my heart but as a reader, hooked me to reading the book in its entirety.

Also, a hypothetical, that don't think what is Politically Correct, but what you think you would do, or would think about doing or have thought about doing. If you had a child who was withdrawn, didn't seem to have a lot of friends, maybe the two of you didnt have a good relationship and you just worried about them, IF you happen to see a journal of theirs, in their room if you were doing the picking up you always said you wouldnt do lol, would you be tempted to read it? Would you read it to see if it would help you understand what is wrong? When does a child's right to privacy end and a parents right or responsibility to help a struggling child begin? I personally think, if I had a withdrawn child, one described as above, I would read at least a few pages of it to see what he or she is writing about. We can talk about trust issues all we want, but the reality is, that if your child is not talking to you at all, there is no trust there for some reason that you better get down to anyway, IMO of course, but I think we are seeing too much of this after "the Nineteen Minutes" of some children's lives rather than before when chuck the trust, this may be about saving your child's life. What are your thoughts.

Two questions there basically to chose from I guess, what do you think of the notes in the books and what would you do about a sad child's journal.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Notes or Journal Entries

Vivian, I shiver each time I read those notes. It was so sad that a mere child was so victimized he relished death. What on earth, could make his life so miserable that would make him want to end it. Life has its ups and downs, but hey, we all have that inward quality, call it our soul, our heart or whatever, but its a deep desire to go on and sometimes fight to go on. And to live until our heavenly father says, its time to come home So what made Peter and others want to end it and some that do? It is the complete destroying of their heart and soul. Peter had been hurt so many times, crushed, bewildered and tortured to the destroying of his soul. It was total destruction. Yes, bullying can definitely cause that. It is pure torture. I have experienced it and it does damage for life either way, whether you live through it or not. I sometimes doubt a person's sincerity when they want to be friends with me. I hate facing a crowd, I break out in hives. In other words I am missing alot of confidence in myself I believe I would have if this did not happen. And this happened when I was in the 8th grade and now am 64. I am not buried with it anymore but the shadows of it are still there. Linda
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Stephanie
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Re: Notes or Journal Entries

Vivian,
 
I'm probably opening a can of worms with my strong opinions on this matter, but my children live in my house, and a "right to privacy" doesn't even enter into my mind- if I want to go into their rooms, I'm polite and I knock if the door is shut, but it's a "perfunctory knock" - relatively meaningless because I'm definitely going in, especially if they tell me to stay out!   Children and teens do not  need to go through a time of railing against adults or parents - the relationships between parents and their children should always remain open and honest. And it's the parents job to keep it that way.  So my answer to your question is, If I had a child who was withdrawn, sullen, did not have friends, and did not engage in activities other than playing video games, I would most certainly scour his/her room, read every scrap of paper he'd ever made a mark on, take him into the medical center for drug testing, bring him to a psychiatrist for evaluation, etc.  Teens are not withdrawn and sullen by nature- that is not part of anyone's personality.  Those are symptoms of a problem, and a parent should take the proper steps to find the problem.  No child deserves to be left floundering in this world because we're busy respecting their right to privacy. 
Stephanie
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vivico1
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Re: Notes or Journal Entries


Stephanie wrote:
Vivian,
I'm probably opening a can of worms with my strong opinions on this matter, but my children live in my house, and a "right to privacy" doesn't even enter into my mind- if I want to go into their rooms, I'm polite and I knock if the door is shut, but it's a "perfunctory knock" - relatively meaningless because I'm definitely going in, especially if they tell me to stay out! Children and teens do not need to go through a time of railing against adults or parents - the relationships between parents and their children should always remain open and honest. And it's the parents job to keep it that way. So my answer to your question is, If I had a child who was withdrawn, sullen, did not have friends, and did not engage in activities other than playing video games, I would most certainly scour his/her room, read every scrap of paper he'd ever made a mark on, take him into the medical center for drug testing, bring him to a psychiatrist for evaluation, etc. Teens are not withdrawn and sullen by nature- that is not part of anyone's personality. Those are symptoms of a problem, and a parent should take the proper steps to find the problem. No child deserves to be left floundering in this world because we're busy respecting their right to privacy.



Gotta say steph, I agree with you totally, but as you say, some may not. I hear a lot of parents saying, "I trust my child and that would be breaking a trust!" I would rather have an angry child at me for snooping, than a dead child for leaving them to themselves, but thats just my opinion too.

Each time I read one of the notes in this book, I think, what if they had found those before, what a different world it might had made for their son and the whole town. And actually, the country at large, because we are touched by these things because we see them on tv. Other kids get scared to go to school, copy cats spring up who were just ready for something to set them off too. The ripples go on further than one can imagine.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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privacy for children


 
I agree that privacy is important to children and I try to respect that with my own kids. I also have absolutely no problem searching for answers if I think there is a problem. I knock on their doors before I enter their rooms, I don't go through their things on a regular basis and they do know that. They also know that I do enter their rooms to bring in laundry, etc., I do look in their backpacks for notes from school etc., I do check their pockets before I wash clothes, we have our computer in the family room and I do ask who they are talking to although I usually don't read it while they are chatting, I do talk to other parents and teachers to see what's going on, I do look at their friends websites and things when they share their addresses - I do try to keep my eyes open. If I suspected a problem I would go through their drawers and more private spaces in a heartbeat.
 
Just a month ago my youngest teenage son  was spending the night with a friend and we got a panicked call the next morning that my son wasn't waking up. My husband raced over from his work and when he couldn't get a response either they called an ambulance. That was the longest drive to the ER of my life. By the time I got there he was awake and alert but had no memory of what had happened. We pieced it together and the Dr. did blood work and a whole lot of other things. He had taken a new medicine the night before and had a severe allergic reaction. That whole day we were going through his duffel bag, his room, his friend's room - every place we could think of to try to figure out what the problem was. We questioned him, his friend, the nurses asked them, a policeman asked them, the friend's mother asked them - just trying to figure it out and make sure there wasn't any funny business going on. We didn't think there was, we never knew of any situations before, but we didn't know for sure this time and it was life threatening. Thankfully everything checked out OK. We were firm when we questioned them and let them know it was important but we were also giving lots of hugs and complimenting the friend on his quick response getting help. They were scared too and they needed reassurance. Even though they hadn't done anything wrong this was a harsh lesson on what could happen doing drugs and drinking. My son spent the day in the ER but he was lucky enough to go home later that day. It was the worst thing that I've ever gone through and I'm still thanking God and everyone and everything for our good outcome. That same day in a nearby town a mother was in a car accident and her two young children were killed. I could have lost my child that same day but didn't. That woman lost two in an accident she caused. I thought about that and cried about that one for a long time.
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kiakar
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Re: Notes or Journal Entries



vivico1 wrote:

Stephanie wrote:
Vivian,
I'm probably opening a can of worms with my strong opinions on this matter, but my children live in my house, and a "right to privacy" doesn't even enter into my mind- if I want to go into their rooms, I'm polite and I knock if the door is shut, but it's a "perfunctory knock" - relatively meaningless because I'm definitely going in, especially if they tell me to stay out! Children and teens do not need to go through a time of railing against adults or parents - the relationships between parents and their children should always remain open and honest. And it's the parents job to keep it that way. So my answer to your question is, If I had a child who was withdrawn, sullen, did not have friends, and did not engage in activities other than playing video games, I would most certainly scour his/her room, read every scrap of paper he'd ever made a mark on, take him into the medical center for drug testing, bring him to a psychiatrist for evaluation, etc. Teens are not withdrawn and sullen by nature- that is not part of anyone's personality. Those are symptoms of a problem, and a parent should take the proper steps to find the problem. No child deserves to be left floundering in this world because we're busy respecting their right to privacy.



Gotta say steph, I agree with you totally, but as you say, some may not. I hear a lot of parents saying, "I trust my child and that would be breaking a trust!" I would rather have an angry child at me for snooping, than a dead child for leaving them to themselves, but thats just my opinion too.

Each time I read one of the notes in this book, I think, what if they had found those before, what a different world it might had made for their son and the whole town. And actually, the country at large, because we are touched by these things because we see them on tv. Other kids get scared to go to school, copy cats spring up who were just ready for something to set them off too. The ripples go on further than one can imagine.

Yes, you both are so right. You are raising up that child, what he knows, he mostly knows from you. As a teenager there is still lots for him or her to learn. Don't stop there? Not ever was any bedroom door locked in my house either. And I didn't snoop I looked at what I felt I should. I tried not to do diaries but if something concerned me I did do it several times.
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vivico1
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Re: privacy for children


Wrighty wrote:

I agree that privacy is important to children and I try to respect that with my own kids. I also have absolutely no problem searching for answers if I think there is a problem. I knock on their doors before I enter their rooms, I don't go through their things on a regular basis and they do know that. They also know that I do enter their rooms to bring in laundry, etc., I do look in their backpacks for notes from school etc., I do check their pockets before I wash clothes, we have our computer in the family room and I do ask who they are talking to although I usually don't read it while they are chatting, I do talk to other parents and teachers to see what's going on, I do look at their friends websites and things when they share their addresses - I do try to keep my eyes open. If I suspected a problem I would go through their drawers and more private spaces in a heartbeat.
Just a month ago my youngest teenage son was spending the night with a friend and we got a panicked call the next morning that my son wasn't waking up. My husband raced over from his work and when he couldn't get a response either they called an ambulance. That was the longest drive to the ER of my life. By the time I got there he was awake and alert but had no memory of what had happened. We pieced it together and the Dr. did blood work and a whole lot of other things. He had taken a new medicine the night before and had a severe allergic reaction. That whole day we were going through his duffel bag, his room, his friend's room - every place we could think of to try to figure out what the problem was. We questioned him, his friend, the nurses asked them, a policeman asked them, the friend's mother asked them - just trying to figure it out and make sure there wasn't any funny business going on. We didn't think there was, we never knew of any situations before, but we didn't know for sure this time and it was life threatening. Thankfully everything checked out OK. We were firm when we questioned them and let them know it was important but we were also giving lots of hugs and complimenting the friend on his quick response getting help. They were scared too and they needed reassurance. Even though they hadn't done anything wrong this was a harsh lesson on what could happen doing drugs and drinking. My son spent the day in the ER but he was lucky enough to go home later that day. It was the worst thing that I've ever gone through and I'm still thanking God and everyone and everything for our good outcome. That same day in a nearby town a mother was in a car accident and her two young children were killed. I could have lost my child that same day but didn't. That woman lost two in an accident she caused. I thought about that and cried about that one for a long time.



You are a good parent, Charlie Brown. And I do mean that. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: privacy for children



vivico1 wrote:
You are a good parent, Charlie Brown. And I do mean that. :smileywink:

 
Thanks Lucy! :smileyvery-happy:  I appreciate that. We do try very hard. I just hope my kids agree.

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vivico1
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Re: privacy for children


Wrighty wrote:


vivico1 wrote:
You are a good parent, Charlie Brown. And I do mean that. :smileywink:

Thanks Lucy! :smileyvery-happy: I appreciate that. We do try very hard. I just hope my kids agree.




If they don't now, they will when they are parents! :smileywink: lol.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: privacy for children



vivico1 wrote:

Wrighty wrote:
 
Thanks Lucy! :smileyvery-happy: I appreciate that. We do try very hard. I just hope my kids agree.


If they don't now, they will when they are parents! :smileywink: lol.

 
Yeah, those famous  "what goes around, comes around", "you reap what you sew"  wishes that every parent has for their own children! Whenever those moments happen at my house my mother just smiles. At those times I blame my children's behaviors on my husband. :smileywink:

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onecunninggirl
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Re: privacy for children

I think that privacy for children does not mean to shut down communication.  There are times that I wish my mom had given me more privacy, but at the same time sometimes I wanted her to find out what she found out to give me some help.  It was often subjects I didn't know how to bring up with her, or in my mind I would be horrified if she found out (but secretly I wanted her to find out).  That being said, I hope that I have a good enough line of communication with my children one day (they are only 2.5 and 7 months now so we mostly talk about Dora and Diego lol).  They also still want to be with me most of the time, and tell me EVERYTHING about their day...LOL
 
******************Major Spoiler Alert*********************************
 
 
 
 
 
 
As far as the journal, I think it was written before he killed himself in prison.  I'm not completely sure it was addressed to his parents or to the world in general/Josie.  It was so reflective and deep about what he was feeling, and I just don't think he had that clarity on the day of the shooting to write something like that.  But I do feel he had that clarity before he decided to go for that last bus ride into the light.  I also feel like the part about will you miss me or will I even miss you was directed at his father more than his mother, and again I think it was probably directed at the world.  Would Peter miss the world?  I think he was finally able to escape the sadness of this world, so I don't think he would miss it.
 
Karla
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kiakar
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Re: privacy for children



onecunninggirl wrote:
I think that privacy for children does not mean to shut down communication.  There are times that I wish my mom had given me more privacy, but at the same time sometimes I wanted her to find out what she found out to give me some help.  It was often subjects I didn't know how to bring up with her, or in my mind I would be horrified if she found out (but secretly I wanted her to find out).  That being said, I hope that I have a good enough line of communication with my children one day (they are only 2.5 and 7 months now so we mostly talk about Dora and Diego lol).  They also still want to be with me most of the time, and tell me EVERYTHING about their day...LOL
 
******************Major Spoiler Alert*********************************
 
 
 
 
 
 
As far as the journal, I think it was written before he killed himself in prison.  I'm not completely sure it was addressed to his parents or to the world in general/Josie.  It was so reflective and deep about what he was feeling, and I just don't think he had that clarity on the day of the shooting to write something like that.  But I do feel he had that clarity before he decided to go for that last bus ride into the light.  I also feel like the part about will you miss me or will I even miss you was directed at his father more than his mother, and again I think it was probably directed at the world.  Would Peter miss the world?  I think he was finally able to escape the sadness of this world, so I don't think he would miss it.
 
Karla


Karla, I am so glad you joined us and hope you can continue. Your comments are very interesting!
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Stephanie
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Re: privacy for children

How many of you are as obsessive as I am, and went back and read just the journals after you read the story?
 
Did Peter write all the entries?  Or, were the entries written by different characters?  For instance, one entry is about popularity, and the referent used is "she" - that journal entry could have been written by Josie.  The chapter in which she finds herself pregnant follows. 
 
Another entry is about Sterling as a small town, and people wondering how such a thing could happen in their own small town.  Sounds like Jordan.  Not surprisingly, the following chapter begins with a section about Jordan. 
 
I hoped for an answer at the end, but no such luck.  I learned the hard way though, in My Sister's Keeper not to make snap judgements about things like this. 
Stephanie
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vivico1
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Re: privacy for children


Stephanie wrote:
How many of you are as obsessive as I am, and went back and read just the journals after you read the story?
Did Peter write all the entries? Or, were the entries written by different characters? For instance, one entry is about popularity, and the referent used is "she" - that journal entry could have been written by Josie. The chapter in which she finds herself pregnant follows.
Another entry is about Sterling as a small town, and people wondering how such a thing could happen in their own small town. Sounds like Jordan. Not surprisingly, the following chapter begins with a section about Jordan.
I hoped for an answer at the end, but no such luck. I learned the hard way though, in My Sister's Keeper not to make snap judgements about things like this.



I was golng to go back and re-read those, thought about it and forgot. I assumed they were all his, so now you have given me another reason to go back and read them all. I will let you know what I think too. Interesting, hmmm.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: privacy for children



vivico1 wrote:

I was golng to go back and re-read those, thought about it and forgot. I assumed they were all his, so now you have given me another reason to go back and read them all. I will let you know what I think too. Interesting, hmmm.

I was just thinking the same thing. I went back and read a few of them but now I'm going to have to read them all. That is interesting Stephanie.
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kiakar
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Re: privacy for children



Wrighty wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

I was golng to go back and re-read those, thought about it and forgot. I assumed they were all his, so now you have given me another reason to go back and read them all. I will let you know what I think too. Interesting, hmmm.

I was just thinking the same thing. I went back and read a few of them but now I'm going to have to read them all. That is interesting Stephanie.


Yes, got my curiousrity sparking also. Will, have to read them over.
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