Discuss Chapter 11

[BillP]

This thread is for discussion of Chapter 11 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

If you wish to discuss events from later in the book, please post in the appropriate thread below.

Spoiler Warning: If you have not read past Chapter 11, this thread may contain plot spoilers.

[quidditchpro]

Umbridge!!!!! Did not see that coming.

Also, I'm a little shocked at Harry's reaction to Remus. I would've figured he wouldn't be so harsh, seeing as Lupin is the only one of the mauraders alive and not evil. But Harry's got a bit of a soft spot when it comes to parents, I suppose.

[Psychee]

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quidditchpro wrote:
Umbridge!!!!! Did not see that coming.

Also, I'm a little shocked at Harry's reaction to Remus. I would've figured he wouldn't be so harsh, seeing as Lupin is the only one of the mauraders alive and not evil. But Harry's got a bit of a soft spot when it comes to parents, I suppose.

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I think Harry is more in touch with how dangerous his mission is than Lupin... Harry knows that anyone going with him could die, and the thought of Lupin leaving an orphan child behind is beyond what Harry is willing to let him risk. Don't jump in to protect me if it means that you will leave your child an orphan...

[teriandcb]

Should have quessed about Tonks being pregnant since JKR kept describing her as "radiant"

[joce14]

harry just didnt want lupin to do what kind of happened to him to his unborn baby so thats y he tried to get lupin mad and succeded.

[dcsbelle]

Good going, Harry!

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Psychee wrote:
Harry knows that anyone going with him could die, and the thought of Lupin leaving an orphan child behind is beyond what Harry is willing to let him risk. Don't jump in to protect me if it means that you will leave your child an orphan...

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[offthewall86]

I'm actually starting to like Kreacher. Now that Harry's learning to treat him more kindly, the elf is pretty funny - you've gotta love his enthusiasm when he's wailing on Mundungus! Makes me wonder if Kreacher will turn a little more toward the good side as the story progresses.

As far as Umbridge goes...I knew she'd be back but I hope she really gets what she deserves in the end. I'll be glad to do the honors myself.

[kpeterson32]

I was thinking that Tonks might be pregnant, but I kept thinking that JKR wouldn't throw that into the mix with everything else that was going on. They need her to fight!

Psychee, I agree with what you said about Harry and Lupin. Harry has a better idea of what lies ahead than anyone else, since he accompanied Dumbledore to the lake. He can't let Lupin take the chance of abandoning his child whether it's for a good reason or not. If Harry were to learn that, say, James had not actually been at the house the night Lily was killed, it would do serious damage to his view of his father. And he doesn't want that to happen to Lupin's kid.

Interesting how both Kreacher and Dudley have turned out not to be as bad as we thought...

NEVER would have guessed that Umbridge ended up with the locket! (Psychee, did anyone get that question right??)

[LiveUrLife]

I thought Harry was a little tough with Lupin. I think he feels if Lupin dies on the quest then the baby will grow up without a father like he did.

[JaYzRICH]

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Psychee wrote:

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quidditchpro wrote:
Umbridge!!!!! Did not see that coming.

Also, I'm a little shocked at Harry's reaction to Remus. I would've figured he wouldn't be so harsh, seeing as Lupin is the only one of the mauraders alive and not evil. But Harry's got a bit of a soft spot when it comes to parents, I suppose.

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I think Harry is more in touch with how dangerous his mission is than Lupin... Harry knows that anyone going with him could die, and the thought of Lupin leaving an orphan child behind is beyond what Harry is willing to let him risk. Don't jump in to protect me if it means that you will leave your child an orphan...

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I deff. agree,Harry wouldnt want another person to go through the same situations he went through as an orphan. I still think is harsh the way he came at Lupin but if he hadn't otherwise Remus would had insisted to go along in their mission.

[Phebemarie]

I'm a little concerned that Harry's open mind is allowing him access to some of Voldy's character traits: he's having a hard time dealing with his anger, and his dismissal of Lupin was assertive to the point of cruelty. He was right to discourage Lupin, but the old Harry would have done so in a more considerate way.

[stellaa37]

We have to understand that Harry Has been going through a lot and yes I believe Harry does have a sore spot for a child being without parents.
Oh and that damn Mundungus he is such a prat! He makes me mad. But no one makes me more mad than Rita Skeeter the Avada Kedavra curse is too good for her. UGH!

[kpeterson32]

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LiveUrLife wrote:
I thought Harry was a little tough with Lupin. I think he feels if Lupin dies on the quest then the baby will grow up without a father like he did.

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I think Lupin is hoping to die on the quest. If he dies in the bid to defeat Voldemort, then he's a hero and his kid wouldn't have to grow up with the shame of having a werewolf for a father, he'd have a dad that helped bring down the Dark Lord.

[Wildflower]

Yeah, it's chapters like this that make me a little angry. There are so many people who continually risk their lives for Harry. They show unwavering loyalty to him and he frequently does not return the sentiment. The fact that he treated Lupin so horribly and now is doubting Dumbledore makes me want to slap him myself.

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quidditchpro wrote:
Umbridge!!!!! Did not see that coming.

Also, I'm a little shocked at Harry's reaction to Remus. I would've figured he wouldn't be so harsh, seeing as Lupin is the only one of the mauraders alive and not evil. But Harry's got a bit of a soft spot when it comes to parents, I suppose.

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[kpeterson32]

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Wildflower wrote:
Yeah, it's chapters like this that make me a little angry. There are so many people who continually risk their lives for Harry. They show unwavering loyalty to him and he frequently does not return the sentiment. The fact that he treated Lupin so horribly and now is doubting Dumbledore makes me want to slap him myself.

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But don't you kind of see his point about Lupin? I mean, clearly, Remus is not doing this just because he cares about Harry. His motivation is a little more selfish and he's not taking his own family into account. If Lupin didn't want children, he should never have married Tonks and he should never have done the things required to produce them.

[iheartbooks]

It is true that all of the things that Harry told Lupin seemed pretty harsh, but his intentions were pure. He simply didn't want Lupin's child to grow up without a father as he did. I must also say that I'm growing quite fond of Kreacher. I hope nothing bad happens to him as the book progresses.

[Wildflower]

OK, I get your point about Lupin, but what about Dumbledore? Why is he so quick to believe what might very well be lies about a man who did so much for him and who he idolized and who, just a few chapters before, he was regretting so many missed opportunities with. He claims himself in earlier chapters that he had so many missed chances where he should have asked Dumbledore more things about himself. So if he never bothered to ask, why does he expect Dumbledore to have told himall of his deep dark secrets?

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kpeterson32 wrote:

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Wildflower wrote:
Yeah, it's chapters like this that make me a little angry. There are so many people who continually risk their lives for Harry. They show unwavering loyalty to him and he frequently does not return the sentiment. The fact that he treated Lupin so horribly and now is doubting Dumbledore makes me want to slap him myself.

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But don't you kind of see his point about Lupin? I mean, clearly, Remus is not doing this just because he cares about Harry. His motivation is a little more selfish and he's not taking his own family into account. If Lupin didn't want children, he should never have married Tonks and he should never have done the things required to produce them.

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[coreen222]

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Phebemarie wrote:
I'm a little concerned that Harry's open mind is allowing him access to some of Voldy's character traits: he's having a hard time dealing with his anger, and his dismissal of Lupin was assertive to the point of cruelty. He was right to discourage Lupin, but the old Harry would have done so in a more considerate way.

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I am with you on this. The first time we saw Harry being angry and confrontational was in OFTP. I chalked it up to teen anxst in that book, and got a kick out of the moody teenager that replaced the Harry I knew and loved from the previous books. But that was also when his mind was open to Voldemort.

He is feeling the emotions of Voldy, so anger is his first response. He also seems awfully impatient--restless, I am sure, from not being able to act, but not careful enough for my taste.

[coreen222]

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Wildflower wrote:
OK, I get your point about Lupin, but what about Dumbledore? Why is he so quick to believe what might very well be lies about a man who did so much for him and who he idolized and who, just a few chapters before, he was regretting so many missed opportunities with. He claims himself in earlier chapters that he had so many missed chances where he should have asked Dumbledore more things about himself. So if he never bothered to ask, why does he expect Dumbledore to have told himall of his deep dark secrets?

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kpeterson32 wrote:

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Wildflower wrote:
Yeah, it's chapters like this that make me a little angry. There are so many people who continually risk their lives for Harry. They show unwavering loyalty to him and he frequently does not return the sentiment. The fact that he treated Lupin so horribly and now is doubting Dumbledore makes me want to slap him myself.

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But don't you kind of see his point about Lupin? I mean, clearly, Remus is not doing this just because he cares about Harry. His motivation is a little more selfish and he's not taking his own family into account. If Lupin didn't want children, he should never have married Tonks and he should never have done the things required to produce them.

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I don't know that he is quick to believing it. I think that he feels like so much was hidden from him. I think there comes a time in all of our lives when we discover the flaws and questionanle histories of those adults we loved, trusted and admired. I think that it might be important for him, at this point, to have some doubts about Dumbledore. One of JKRs major themes is that it is your choices that show your true character. If DD was once on a different path, so the error of his ways and made a conscience and difficult choice to change, I think that makes him all the more stronger. HP just wants the truth right now, and he wishes DD would have come clean with him. Instead he is hearing about DD as flawless, or as almost evil. I am sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but Harry is expecting it to be all or nothing. DD was human afterall, and he lived a long long long life.

[WIJen]

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Phebemarie wrote:
I'm a little concerned that Harry's open mind is allowing him access to some of Voldy's character traits: he's having a hard time dealing with his anger, and his dismissal of Lupin was assertive to the point of cruelty. He was right to discourage Lupin, but the old Harry would have done so in a more considerate way.

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Phebemarie!

I could not agree more with you. I think his message was in the right place, but he crossed the line. To get Lupin so worked up he pulls out his wand is bad enough, but to the point where he uses it, that's way too far and Harry should have known to stop.

Excellent point!

Jen in WI