Discuss Chapter 32

[BillP]

This thread is for discussion of Chapter 32 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

If you wish to discuss events from later in the book, please post in the appropriate thread below.

Spoiler Warning: If you have not read past Chapter 32, this thread may contain plot spoilers.

[Proper-T]

I'll say it everywhere I can on the boards, sure in my heart I knew Sev would die, but not like that... Voldy was really evil

I thought nothing could be sadder then DD's death, but I liked Sev better as a character, so 658 is now the most tragic page in HP history to me...

[Psychee]

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Proper-T wrote:
I'll say it everywhere I can on the boards, sure in my heart I knew Sev would die, but not like that... Voldy was really evil

I thought nothing could be sadder then DD's death, but I liked Sev better as a character, so 658 is now the most tragic page in HP history to me...

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That death was frigidly cold... but at least he didn't give Severus to Nagini for dinner...

[StoryMing]

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Psychee wrote:

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Proper-T wrote:
I'll say it everywhere I can on the boards, sure in my heart I knew Sev would die, but not like that... Voldy was really evil

I thought nothing could be sadder then DD's death, but I liked Sev better as a character, so 658 is now the most tragic page in HP history to me...

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That death was frigidly cold... but at least he didn't give Severus to Nagini for dinner...

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I agree: I knew he couldn't live, but it wasn't the death that he deserved.
I was so sure he'd go out undermining Voldemort and helping Harry...

[mastkudi25]

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StoryMing wrote:

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Psychee wrote:

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Proper-T wrote:
I'll say it everywhere I can on the boards, sure in my heart I knew Sev would die, but not like that... Voldy was really evil

I thought nothing could be sadder then DD's death, but I liked Sev better as a character, so 658 is now the most tragic page in HP history to me...

---

That death was frigidly cold... but at least he didn't give Severus to Nagini for dinner...

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I agree: I knew he couldn't live, but it wasn't the death that he deserved.
I was so sure he'd go out undermining Voldemort and helping Harry...

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Yes, me too. I couldn't help but stand by Dumbledore in his trust of Snape. I said it all along... the argument between Snape and Dumbledore that Hagrid overheard in the Forbidden Forest where Snape was heard telling DD that maybe Snape didn't want to do the "job" anymore, maybe he had had a change of heart. I said earlier that Snape was referring to his promise to DD that he would Draco's job for him and kill DD before Draco's "soul can be tainted." DD wanted to save Draco from experiencing the pain of murdering another life. Snape, on the other hand, would be killing DD on DD's orders to SAVE Draco and to SAVE DD the "pain and humiliation."

Anyhow, I am so sad for Snape -

he had a horrible childhood, with that idiot father of his. He was never loved. Not even by Lily Evans.

[Cousins]

After reading HPB i hated Snape with the deepest passion. I knew he was going to die for sure but not like that, atleast jumping infront of the Killing curse to save Harry. I was very sad thta Snape didnt get a chance to fight back against Nagini. And when he gave his memory to Harry to watch in the pensieve, i knew this was the moment everyone would find out that he was actaully good, that he was actually DD's man through and through. He's officialy the bravest most respected character in the Harry Potter series, end of story..

[Mugchic]

i was extremely suprissed at the memory. it's like snape got killed for no reason.

[kpeterson32]

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StoryMing wrote:
I knew he couldn't live, but it wasn't the death that he deserved.
I was so sure he'd go out undermining Voldemort and helping Harry...

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Somehow, I think he did. Personally, if Snape has to be on our side, I think this death was most appropriate. Voldemort will never really know who betrayed him. I didn't see it coming. I never would have guessed that Voldemort would kill Snape like that...until he started talking about why the wand didn't work. I was wracking my brain. Did Snape somehow switch the wands after Draco disarmed Dumbledore? But, no, I realized. Like many in this tale, the answer was simple. Snape had been the one to defeat Dumbledore, and so, the Elder Wand was rightfully his. I realized this right before Voldemort actually said it. Excellently crafted, Jo!

Now, depending on what that memory contains, I think it was very interesting that the last thing Snape ever saw was Lily's eyes looking into his. Sure, they were attached to Harry's head, but he was always told that he has Lily's eyes.

[dayrenm]

Wow! I was short for words after reading that Snape had died, and the way he had died. It was even more sad that he kept asking to go look for Harry as to excape that moment, he knew was coming. He was a good man even after all the bad things that happened to him. He played a good role, everyone confused as to what exactly he was.

[Mrs_Lupin]

LONG LIVE SNAPE!

[APenForYourTho…]

I despise Voldemort!!!!!!!!!!!! I still hadn't made up my mind as to whether or not Snape was evil, but I have a feeling that the silver stuff pouring out of him is his memories, and that Snape wanted to help Harry, so that's why he was telling him to take it. And it is very interesting that he was looking into Lily's eyes as he died. Good point. He loved Lily, and he despised James, so Harry was both what he loved and what he hated rolled up in one. The only way Harry seems to resemble Lily physically was in his eyes, so it makes sense. I feel bad for Snape now. I am thinking he's probably a good guy. Just kind of misunderstood.

[Lupingirl]

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kpeterson32 wrote:

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StoryMing wrote:
I knew he couldn't live, but it wasn't the death that he deserved.
I was so sure he'd go out undermining Voldemort and helping Harry...

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Somehow, I think he did. Personally, if Snape has to be on our side, I think this death was most appropriate.

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I completely agree that this was an appropriate death. I love Snape, but it is somehow fitting that his death should seem almost pointless - it fits with his tragic life. He did go out undermining Voldemort - by giving Harry his memories, he gave Harry the missing information he needed.

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kpeterson32 wrote:
Voldemort will never really know who betrayed him. I didn't see it coming. I never would have guessed that Voldemort would kill Snape like that...until he started talking about why the wand didn't work. I was wracking my brain. Did Snape somehow switch the wands after Draco disarmed Dumbledore? But, no, I realized. Like many in this tale, the answer was simple. Snape had been the one to defeat Dumbledore, and so, the Elder Wand was rightfully his. I realized this right before Voldemort actually said it. Excellently crafted, Jo!

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I was thinking about this, and wondering how Dumbledore was the true owner in the first place. Sure, he defeated Grindelwald, but Grindelwald never defeated Gregorovitch. He only stole it from him, so how was Grindelwald the true owner?

Message Edited by Lupingirl on 07-30-2007 12:44 PM

[HarryIsMyHomeb…]

Voldemort, you sadistic git! He understands nothing, and never learns.


Poor Snape...I knew he was going to die, but that was not the death he deserved...

At least he was able to see Lily's eyes one last time before he died-reading that moment sent cold chills through me, and broke my heart. And he gave Harry his memories; I just know these will be crucial to Harry, and that even in his death, he will be of aid. He's Dumbledore's man, I know he is!

Much as I wanted Snape to die a hero's death, I accept that this is how it had to be. His life was completely tragic, this somehow...fits.

[johntaves]

I am not happy with how he died. There are several problems. The biggest is that Snape didn't have a plan to get Harry the information. Snape is not an idiot. He should have had some sort of cookie trail for Harry to follow and find the pensive. Snape should know that as a double agent in the service of Voldemort he could die at any moment. So he should long ago have put in place a way to for Harry to find out the story in the event of his death. Of course if he has no plan, then he must die via the snake so that he has time to ooze the memory, (and Harry needs to be watching, and Voldemort needs to make a hasty exit). But, that brings up another problem. It makes no sense for Voldemort to take the gamble that the wand will be his if his servant does the kill. Voldemort has been befuddled by wands for the whole book, there's no way he would take the chance. He certainly could be concerned that the wand won't kill its master, but he's knows how to borrowing a wand. And if he were concerned about the wand not being willing to kill its master, then his final act later in the book doesn't make sense. If he felt that he only needs to order the death, then he would believe that he already owned the wand since he ordered Dumbledore's death.

jt

[HarryIsMyHomeb…]

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johntaves wrote:
It makes no sense for Voldemort to take the gamble that the wand will be his if his servant does the kill. Voldemort has been befuddled by wands for the whole book, there's no way he would take the chance. He certainly could be concerned that the wand won't kill its master, but he's knows how to borrowing a wand. And if he were concerned about the wand not being willing to kill its master, then his final act later in the book doesn't make sense. If he felt that he only needs to order the death, then he would believe that he already owned the wand since he ordered Dumbledore's death.

jt

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The 'ordering' of death wasn't the case, here.

Voldemort was sure Snape was the master of the Elder Wand because Snape had been the one to kill Dumbledore. He did not know that the true master of the wand was Malfoy, who had been the one to take the wand by force in the form of a Disarming spell. Had he known that, he would have sent Nagini to kill Draco.

With that said, I don't think it was a gamble for Voldemort to use Nagini to kill Snape. It wasn't Voldemort 'ordering' the snake to kill, he was forcing the snake to kill, either through magic or possession, which was something he had done in the past. For example, it was Voldemort possessing Nagini when Mr. Weasley was attacked. I am sure he did something of the sort again.

In this instance, Voldemort as good as killed Snape, and if his calculations had been correct, this would have ensured that the wand was his. If he had used Nagini to kill Draco instead of Snape, then the wand would have been his.

Message Edited by HarryIsMyHomeboy on 08-11-2007 10:16 PM

[snider_kr]

Poor Snape. At least people that were hit with the killing curse died a fast death. Snape had a little more sufferering to do. i know that if he would of died a quick death he couldnt give harry the memory but the thought of such a brave person dying a longer tragic death is