Discuss Chapter 33 [ Edited ]

[Grimbles]

I agree about it being his fault. He only went to Dumbledore because Lily was going to be killed. But even at school he hung around with Death Eaters when Lily was there. If Lily wasn't threatened by Voldemort he would have remained a Death Eater.

Message Edited by Grimbles on 07-25-2007 11:21 AM

[razzle]

From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe: She landed on the office floor, bounded once across the offcie, and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
"After all this time?"
"Always," said Snape

What was this scene about?? It confused me a lot. Where did the patronus go and why? What did Dumbledore mean by "after all this time"?

[Psychee]

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razzle wrote:
From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe: She landed on the office floor, bounded once across the offcie, and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
"After all this time?"
"Always," said Snape

What was this scene about?? It confused me a lot. Where did the patronus go and why? What did Dumbledore mean by "after all this time"?

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The Patronus takes the symbolic form of the person you love or feel safest with as a protector. You don't choose the form, the form just happens in accordance with your heart.

Snape was showing Dumbledore that his Patronus was a Doe, a female deer. If you remember, Harry's Patronus symbolizes his father and that is a stag, a male deer. The Doe represented the Stag's wife -- Lily.

Snape was telling Dumbledore that he will always love Lily.

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

[bentley]

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Psychee wrote:

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razzle wrote:
From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe: She landed on the office floor, bounded once across the offcie, and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
"After all this time?"
"Always," said Snape

What was this scene about?? It confused me a lot. Where did the patronus go and why? What did Dumbledore mean by "after all this time"?

---

The Patronus takes the symbolic form of the person you love or feel safest with as a protector. You don't choose the form, the form just happens in accordance with your heart.

Snape was showing Dumbledore that his Patronus was a Doe, a female deer. If you remember, Harry's Patronus symbolizes his father and that is a stag, a male deer. The Doe represented the Stag's wife -- Lily.

Snape was telling Dumbledore that he will always love Lily.

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

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Very nice explanation and so true..still waters run deep and Snape was the deepest.

[xoxocutiexoxo]

This was my Fave chapter... How Snape had to give up all the appreciation and having to pretend that he was on the bad side.. even if he wanted that position i still think that it wouldve been better at the end if snape had lived and so ppl would be avle to appreciate him at one point of his life... but JKR cant make everyone live.. i suppose.. any ideas from anyone??


''Look...at...me'' he whispered. The green eyes found the black, but after a second, something in the depths of the dark pair seemed to vanish, leaving them fixed,blank, and empty. The hand holding Harry thudded to the floor, and Snape moved no more. - Page 658 in Deathly Hallows

so sad snapes greattt

Message Edited by xoxocutiexoxo on 07-25-2007 07:53 PM

[PeevesArmy]

This made me really sad, it made me realize that Sev never got the kind of life he deserved, he was mislead into Deathership, and then it seems to me that Lily was the only real one in Snape's life that was ever a true friend, and that he cared about.

[kpeterson32]

I mean it. I have always meant it. Always. If Harry dies, I'm sending my books back to Jo. I don't care the circumstances. I refuse to accept the sacrificial death of a 17-year-old. I don't care if he's technically an adult in the wizarding world. There is nothing that can make me feel that this would be an appropriate ending. Nothing.

The revelations in this chapter were almost verbatim things that I have read throughout the past two or three or four years. I can't help but wonder how much of this might actually have been planted by JKR herself, putting it out there into fandom to see how the ideas were debated. The notion that Snape was in love with Lily and that Dumbledore's death was somehow "stoppered". (I still don't like that, by the way.)

A lot of things make sense, but I can't help feeling a little let down now. Snape is a horrible person. He treated Harry awfully. I don't care that he was James's son. He was also Lily's. And Snape would never have cared that Harry lived if only Lily had. That's awful and it doesn't make me feel any better about Snape.

Yup, it looks like I'm one of the ones that Jo was talking about when she said that some people wouldn't like the ending. Three more chapters and an epilogue. Although with this whole Harry-must-die notion being put out there, I'm tempted to stop reading now and make up my own ending.

But alas, I've come too far not to finish it now.

Message Edited by kpeterson32 on 07-26-2007 01:12 AM

[crw1204]

It is really strange finally to read a chapter that was everything I wanted to see of Snape and Lily's friendship. I knew that Snape was good because he loved Lily, and like Harry, he could never be like Voldemort because of love. BUT, Snape was almost made evil because of James and his friend's bullying. I think that there is no getting around the fact, that like of Sirius and the betrayal of Kreacher, bullies can cause events they cannot always control.

I wish that there had been moments over the years where Smape and Harry could have talked. Again, James's actions kept Harry from truly knowing someone who knew his mother really well, as well as Petunia.

I did not want Snape to die. It broke my heart.

[kpeterson32]

The thing we have to remember, though, is that Snape was a "deeply horrible person". He hated Harry for a long time, and never wanted to admit that his feelings ever changed. Until things got very difficult near the end, Snape only cared about Lily, never about Harry. If Lily had lived that fateful night, and Harry had died, Snape would have been happy.

But he had his chance to do the right thing and he did it. And therein lies his redemption.

[PeevesArmy]

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kpeterson32 wrote:
The thing we have to remember, though, is that Snape was a "deeply horrible person". He hated Harry for a long time, and never wanted to admit that his feelings ever changed. Until things got very difficult near the end, Snape only cared about Lily, never about Harry. If Lily had lived that fateful night, and Harry had died, Snape would have been happy.

But he had his chance to do the right thing and he did it. And therein lies his redemption.

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Its more like he hated Harry and James with words, but he loved Harry and Lily with actions, I'm quoting someone else, sorry I forgot name, but in the Prince's Tale, Snape actually gets really unsettled when Dumbledore tells him that Harry has to die, he actually breaks down, so no, I don't think Snape was a "deeply horrible person"

[Psychee]

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PeevesArmy wrote:

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kpeterson32 wrote:
The thing we have to remember, though, is that Snape was a "deeply horrible person". He hated Harry for a long time, and never wanted to admit that his feelings ever changed. Until things got very difficult near the end, Snape only cared about Lily, never about Harry. If Lily had lived that fateful night, and Harry had died, Snape would have been happy.

But he had his chance to do the right thing and he did it. And therein lies his redemption.

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Its more like he hated Harry and James with words, but he loved Harry and Lily with actions, I'm quoting someone else, sorry I forgot name, but in the Prince's Tale, Snape actually gets really unsettled when Dumbledore tells him that Harry has to die, he actually breaks down, so no, I don't think Snape was a "deeply horrible person"

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My interpretation of the text is that the whole reason he was trying to keep Harry alive was because it would mean that Lily had not died in vain. That was his initial purpose. Then, later, when he got upset because it looked like Harry was going to have to die, Dumbledore asked him if that was because he had finally developed some feelings for Harry. Snape's answer was no, no feelings for Harry, it was Lily he still cared about... and he did that by showing the doe Patronus... he still wanted to keep Harry alive so that his mother's death was not in vain...

[Mrs_Lupin]

Message Edited by Mrs_Lupin on 07-26-2007 07:13 PM

[Mrs_Lupin]

OMG this chapter was intense, i always had a huntch that dumbledore planed with snape for snape to kill him. LONG LIVE SNAPE

ONE THING that hit me right off in the beginning of this chapter was LUPIN and TONKS!!!! i CANT believe they died, right after getting married and having a child, a child that would grow up not knowing his parents! in a previous chapter when tonks showed up i was like 'NO!!!! GO HOME TO UR KID!!! UR GONNA DIE!' and when i read that they died i was bawling to the point i couldnt see and had to put the book down, i think that either tonks or lupin should have died, but not both.
LONG LIVE LUPIN AND TONKS!

[AvarieLove]

i knew snape would show his true colors some how i just knew that he couldnt be bad. it just sucks to see such a great character die in a way that puts him to shame. he was my favorite character up till the 6th book where like others i lost faith in him. i think it was so sweet how he loved lily and in a way harry. he may have been mean to him but arent we all mean to those we love? and i think harry did him justice by naming his son after him

[narnianmum]

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Psychee wrote:

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

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I think the patronus did go somewhere. I think that was the memory of the moment Snape sent it out to show Harry the way to the sword. Snape and Dumbledore had just been talking about the sword before Snape produced the patronus.

narnianmum

[Psychee]

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narnianmum wrote:

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Psychee wrote:

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

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I think the patronus did go somewhere. I think that was the memory of the moment Snape sent it out to show Harry the way to the sword. Snape and Dumbledore had just been talking about the sword before Snape produced the patronus.

narnianmum

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That was a clever thought, but do you remember back in that forest, Ron thought he saw movement in that space between the trees? And then no one was there? I believe Snape had been there at that time, working the Patronus.

[dcsbelle]

I thought so too; but how do you think he knew where they were?

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Psychee wrote:

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narnianmum wrote:

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Psychee wrote:

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

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I think the patronus did go somewhere. I think that was the memory of the moment Snape sent it out to show Harry the way to the sword. Snape and Dumbledore had just been talking about the sword before Snape produced the patronus.

narnianmum

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That was a clever thought, but do you remember back in that forest, Ron thought he saw movement in that space between the trees? And then no one was there? I believe Snape had been there at that time, working the Patronus.

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[narnianmum]

you're right my mistake. Snape shows Dumbledore his Patronus on p687 and they don't discuss the sword until p689&690.
i stand corrected
narnianmum

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dcsbelle wrote:
I thought so too; but how do you think he knew where they were?

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Psychee wrote:

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narnianmum wrote:

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Psychee wrote:

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

---

I think the patronus did go somewhere. I think that was the memory of the moment Snape sent it out to show Harry the way to the sword. Snape and Dumbledore had just been talking about the sword before Snape produced the patronus.

narnianmum

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That was a clever thought, but do you remember back in that forest, Ron thought he saw movement in that space between the trees? And then no one was there? I believe Snape had been there at that time, working the Patronus.

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[Psychee]

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dcsbelle wrote:
I thought so too; but how do you think he knew where they were?

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Psychee wrote:

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narnianmum wrote:

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Psychee wrote:

The Patronus didn't go anywhere... it just disappeared... it was only meant to illustrate the person inside Snape's heart.

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I think the patronus did go somewhere. I think that was the memory of the moment Snape sent it out to show Harry the way to the sword. Snape and Dumbledore had just been talking about the sword before Snape produced the patronus.

narnianmum

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That was a clever thought, but do you remember back in that forest, Ron thought he saw movement in that space between the trees? And then no one was there? I believe Snape had been there at that time, working the Patronus.

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The book told us that. Phinneas Nigellus (inside his picture, inside Hermione's purse) overheard Hermione tell Harry where they were. He then reported that to Snape in the Headmaster's office. If you go back to the chapter where Hermione did this, you'll see she had her purse open as talked to Harry.

[dcsbelle]

Okay, thanks, Psychee. I haven't gotten that far in my reread.

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Psychee wrote:

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dcsbelle wrote:
I thought so too; but how do you think he knew where they wereworking the Patronus.

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The book told us that. Phinneas Nigellus (inside his picture, inside Hermione's purse) overheard Hermione tell Harry where they were. He then reported that to Snape in the Headmaster's office. If you go back to the chapter where Hermione did this, you'll see she had her purse open as talked to Harry.

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