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Harrypotter8279798
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter



jms79 wrote:
I really hope snape isnt on the evil side. I know he plays an evil guy very well but still I would hope that he isnt as bad as he seems.


Sure I think that snape is good and I agree he is probably feeding false information to you know who, you know beatrix is REALLY a stuck UP
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Nadine
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

eve05 said:
What a creepy chapter.

Voldemort has taken over Lucius's house and called a meeting of DE's to plan how to trap and kill Harry. There's a prisoner crying in pain in the basement. And a Hogwart's Professor bound hopelessly over the table who futilely begs Snape for help but is dumped on the table and devoured by a snake while everyone watches. Eeeek!

--------------------------------

I agree. It sure set a frightening tone for the book. This chapter along with the quote from Aeschylus certainly indicated that we were not in Kansas anymore. This is pretty grim stuff.

-------------------------------

eve05 said:
Snape is now the acknowledged favorite, seated at Voldemort's right hand.
He tells Voldemort that Harry will be moved from the Dursley house to new safe place on Sat next. Voldemort asks him the source of this information Snape replies"---from the source we discussed"

question1: who/what is this source... the Order?
question2: Is Snape really betraying Harry? or is there some extenuating circumstance to explain his behavior? (I'm in the 'Snape is not evil' camp.)

---------------------------------

I had the same questions. How did Snape know the plans for moving Harry and why was his preferred over Yaxley's? I don't think he could be getting the information from the Order. Everyone there is convinced he is a traitor. Obviously Voldemort knows and accepts his source. My thinking is that either Snape is considered on the bad side and there is another traitor in the order or Snape is considered of some use in passing on mis-information. It could be a decoy.
------------------------------------------

eve05 said:

Voldemort says he now knows he must be the one to kill Harry.

-------------------------------

I think this could be a matter of pride or to assure his command. He has failed in all his attempts. The Graveyard scene of GoF was particularly humiliating to him. I think it is important for him to prove he is a stronger wizard that this mere boy who defeated him to begin with.

---------------------

question3: How has he learned this? Only DD and Harry know the contents of the prophesy.
---------------------

You have a good point there. Voldemort only knows the first part.
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KatelynH
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter



Nadine wrote:
eve05 said:
What a creepy chapter.

Voldemort has taken over Lucius's house and called a meeting of DE's to plan how to trap and kill Harry. There's a prisoner crying in pain in the basement. And a Hogwart's Professor bound hopelessly over the table who futilely begs Snape for help but is dumped on the table and devoured by a snake while everyone watches. Eeeek!

--------------------------------

I agree. It sure set a frightening tone for the book. This chapter along with the quote from Aeschylus certainly indicated that we were not in Kansas anymore. This is pretty grim stuff.

-------------------------------

eve05 said:
Snape is now the acknowledged favorite, seated at Voldemort's right hand.
He tells Voldemort that Harry will be moved from the Dursley house to new safe place on Sat next. Voldemort asks him the source of this information Snape replies"---from the source we discussed"

question1: who/what is this source... the Order?
question2: Is Snape really betraying Harry? or is there some extenuating circumstance to explain his behavior? (I'm in the 'Snape is not evil' camp.)

---------------------------------

I had the same questions. How did Snape know the plans for moving Harry and why was his preferred over Yaxley's? I don't think he could be getting the information from the Order. Everyone there is convinced he is a traitor. Obviously Voldemort knows and accepts his source. My thinking is that either Snape is considered on the bad side and there is another traitor in the order or Snape is considered of some use in passing on mis-information. It could be a decoy.
------------------------------------------

eve05 said:

Voldemort says he now knows he must be the one to kill Harry.

-------------------------------

I think this could be a matter of pride or to assure his command. He has failed in all his attempts. The Graveyard scene of GoF was particularly humiliating to him. I think it is important for him to prove he is a stronger wizard that this mere boy who defeated him to begin with.

---------------------

question3: How has he learned this? Only DD and Harry know the contents of the prophesy.
---------------------

You have a good point there. Voldemort only knows the first part.


Voldemort know's that he has to kill Harry himself because in the HBP Snape over heard Dumbledore and the divination teacher in the room she was staying in and she recited the prfessy to Dumbledore.That was when Snape was on Voldemort's side.I know that Snape hates Harry,but I think that he has been on the good side for a long time.
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Psychee
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

Voldemort has to be the one to kill Harry because if he does not do it himself, everyone will think that Harry was a better wizard than he was. Voldemort's pride is at stake here, as well as the fear factor hold he has over his followers. He must not appear weak to anyone.

Voldemort has been giving the order to his followers not to kill Harry and let him do it himself since the end of GoF.

There is nothing in the prophesy that says that Voldemort has to kill Harry. The prophesy only says that the one person with the power to kill Voldemort is Harry.
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dayrenm
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter



Psychee wrote:
We've watched those Malfoys go from being "King of the Hill" arrogant to cowering, humiliated pawns... can it get any lower???






Definetely Psychee, come to think of it they being so "hi class" and all, it seems that they don't Voldy around. It seems that only the snot Bella is the one truly interested. I wonder what big role she will play?
LONG LIVE HARRY POTTER!!
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dayrenm
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter



Wildflower wrote:
Yeah, and I don't get this. Lucius has always been such a bad guy, why all of a sudden does he seem not to be on Voldemort's side? I understand Draco's reactions, but not his parents.



mermaidgirl wrote:
I found it very interesting to see all of the Malfoy clan's reactions to having LV in their house. They are obviously rethinking their allegiance to LV, but are too afraid to do anything about it. Lucius is mute most of the chapter, and Narcissa and Draco are cowering and terrified. What comes around goes around!








I think Lucius and Narcissa are acting that way because of what Voldy made Draco go thru. Well it is time they get a taste of their own medicine. So if Lucius has no wand then there is no way he can go after Harry right?
LONG LIVE HARRY POTTER!!
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BnBookworm
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

Help me!!!
Who is Yaxley, and have we met him before??????
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SingPraise
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

Chapter 1 Review

I think it was a great way to open up a book. No explaining, just right into a piece of high suspense action and leaving you on a cliff hanger. That is one thing you can always count on wit Jo. (J.K. Rowling has asked her fans to call her Jo short for Joanne.) I think Snape is really on the side of Voldermort. If he truly Killed Dumbledore, and is giving out information, that could lead to Harry's downfall and the rise of the Dark Lord, he is NOT a true member of the Order of the Phoenix. He is a true deatheater, and

"no one stops being a death eater" -Sirius Black
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nessa
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

Am I the only one who wonders what Bellatrix's husband thinks of her fawning all over Voldemort? Or maybe they're both so far gone in their devotion to Voldemort that he would be honored to have Voldemort take his wife and the marriage doesn't mean anything to either of them anymore...
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eve05
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter


Psychee wrote:
Voldemort has to be the one to kill Harry because if he does not do it himself, everyone will think that Harry was a better wizard than he was. Voldemort's pride is at stake here, as well as the fear factor hold he has over his followers. He must not appear weak to anyone.

Voldemort has been giving the order to his followers not to kill Harry and let him do it himself since the end of GoF.

There is nothing in the prophesy that says that Voldemort has to kill Harry. The prophesy only says that the one person with the power to kill Voldemort is Harry.





Excellent points Psychee:

Voldemort may not know that Harry "will have power that Dark Lord knows not"...
But he should have figured by now that that there is danger in attacking Harry.
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bmbrennan
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

I was wondering why LV chose Malfoy Manor as his "headquarters". Was this to unnerve the Malfoy's because Draco couldn't kill Dumbledore? I kind of like the Malfoys being afraid and being knocked off their pedestals so to speak.


mermaidgirl wrote:
I found it very interesting to see all of the Malfoy clan's reactions to having LV in their house. They are obviously rethinking their allegiance to LV, but are too afraid to do anything about it. Lucius is mute most of the chapter, and Narcissa and Draco are cowering and terrified. What comes around goes around!


bmbrennan
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber. Churchill
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eve05
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter


Nadine wrote:
----------------
eve05 said:
What a creepy chapter.
Voldemort has taken over Lucius's house and called a meeting of DE's to plan how to trap and kill Harry. There's a prisoner crying in pain in the basement. And a Hogwart's Professor bound hopelessly over the table who futilely begs Snape for help but is dumped on the table and devoured by a snake while everyone watches. Eeeek!
--------------------------------
I agree. It sure set a frightening tone for the book. This chapter along with the quote from Aeschylus certainly indicated that we were not in Kansas anymore. This is pretty grim stuff.

I image that the Aeschylus quote is very important since it sets the theme of the book/series. I wish I could understand it better.
It seems to say that the house/family/tribe is deeply troubled--killing, destroying one another, etc.--- but the cure to their troubles is to be found within themselves(the family) but with the help of the 'dark gods beneath the earth'.
I wonder if Harry does travel through the veil--to the 'powers underground'--and seeks help from Sirius and the minions there, will he re-emerge with the power to destroy Voldemort? Our American cover seems to support this thought... it does looks like he is emerging from beyond the veil.



Nadine wrote:
-------------------
eve05 said:
Snape is now the acknowledged favorite, seated at Voldemort's right hand.
He tells Voldemort that Harry will be moved from the Dursley house to new safe place on Sat next. Voldemort asks him the source of this information Snape replies"---from the source we discussed"
question1: who/what is this source... the Order?
question2: Is Snape really betraying Harry? or is there some extenuating circumstance to explain his behavior? (I'm in the 'Snape is not evil' camp.)
---------------------------------
I had the same questions. How did Snape know the plans for moving Harry and why was his preferred over Yaxley's? I don't think he could be getting the information from the Order. Everyone there is convinced he is a traitor. Obviously Voldemort knows and accepts his source. My thinking is that either Snape is considered on the bad side and there is another traitor in the order or Snape is considered of some use in passing on mis-information. It could be a decoy.

to take a stab at answering my own questions
question1: who/what is this source... the Order? It's not likely that Snape is included in Order meetings now. But what if he has managed to 'bug' their meetings and knows their decisions?
question2: Is Snape really betraying Harry? or is there some extenuating circumstance to explain his behavior? (I'm still in the 'Snape is not evil' camp.) Why does he pass this important information to Voldemort?... Perhaps he thinks Voldemort may already know the plan (from that unknown prisoner in the basement?)... Maybe/maybe not, Snape can't be sure... but it's too dangerous to mislead Voldemort at this time, so he gives him accurate information. Snape decides to bide his time.

Nadine wrote:
----------------
eve05 said:
Voldemort says he now knows he must be the one to kill Harry.
-------------------------------
I think this could be a matter of pride or to assure his command. He has failed in all his attempts. The Graveyard scene of GoF was particularly humiliating to him. I think it is important for him to prove he is a stronger wizard that this mere boy who defeated him to begin with.

---------------------
question3: How has he learned this? Only DD and Harry know the contents of the prophesy.
---------------------
You have a good point there. Voldemort only knows the first part.
---------------------

I've come to agree with you here that it is mainly V.'s pride speaking and not new knowledge.
question3: How has he learned this? Only DD and Harry know the contents of the prophesy.
The 'school of hard knocks' should have taught Voldemort the essence of the second part of the Prophesy... (that Harry has unknown powers). Knowing the full Prophesy has not proven to be crucial. But Voldemort's pursuit of it has proved to be self destrictive. All Voldemort's plans and efforts have come to naught and he has been forced to reveal himself in the process.
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Krisleyyy
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

yeah but he has made that unbreakable thing with Malfoy's mother. so he had to kill dumbledore either ways. i think he is good, but i could be mistakn. in all cases i dont even know if he even knows which side he is on.
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tmaple15
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter



BillP wrote:
This thread is for discussion of Chapter 1 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

If you wish to discuss events from later in the book, please post in the appropriate thread below.

Spoiler Warning: If you have not read past Chapter 1, this thread may contain plot spoilers.


I believe wholeheartedly that Snape is good. There are many reasons that point me to this conclusion that have already been discussed, so I won't repeat. However, has anyone else besides me noticed the difference between how the different characters respond to Voldemort, especially in the 1st chapter? In this chapter, all of Voldemort's followers show fear and feelings of inferiority with any of their interactions with him...all except Snape that is. Snape is the only one in this chapter that responds to Voldemort with a strange confidence, instead of the fear, as if he is just speaking to anyone else...a confidence that reminds me of Dumbledore and the rest of the Order. It seems that the only people who don't seem to fear Voldemort are the members of the Order. Not that they doubt his powers and don't realize how dangerous he can be, but they still seem to have a confidence that must stem from believing he can be beaten in the end. So reading the 1st chapter just confirmed my feelings that Snape has be working for the Order.
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Rachel-K
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

That's an interesting angle, Tmaple.

Snape's air of always being self-possessed is one of his most compelling traits, isn't it? And I think it lends to either argument! Either he's "cold" or "confident." But I read him the same way you did here--but that's only because I was predisposed to, having come to the book from the pro-Snape camp, I think.
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BnBookworm
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

SOMEONE HELP ME!!!!! WHO IS YAXLEY???!!!!?!?!??!
Ninety percent of who you are is invisible
Imagination...is a form of seeing
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Psychee
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

According to the second chapter of HBP, Yaxley is a Death Eater who, like Lucius Malfoy, Avery, the Carrows and Greyback, was never captured and sent to Azkaban.
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kmreese1321
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter

is dolores umbridge in the meeting? i believe there is a description of a squat woman with pointy teeth. is that umbridge??
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Psychee
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter



kmreese1321 wrote:
is dolores umbridge in the meeting? i believe there is a description of a squat woman with pointy teeth. is that umbridge??




No, just another short woman. If that had been Umbridge, the description would have included the words "toad" and "pink" and some mention would have been made about that hair bow...
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eve05
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Re: Discuss the First Chapter


kmreese1321 wrote:
is dolores umbridge in the meeting? i believe there is a description of a squat woman with pointy teeth. is that umbridge??




Wow, what a catch!

When we're first introduced to Umbridge during Harry's Wizengamot Hearing, her description---'She was rather squat with a broad, flabby face, as little neck as Uncle Vernon ...' [OoPpg146]
In Umbridge's first DADA class, Hermione raises her hand to be recognized. Umbridge takes her time before calling on her.' "Well, we're reading just now," said Professor Umbridge, showing her small pointed teeth'. [OoPpg241]


If Umbridge is a DE it certainly explains the 'professionalism' of the Dementor attack on Harry.
__Harry's protection from The Order(Mundungus) had been lured away.
__a black fog which blotted out the stars, descended and blinded the victims(so there could be no witness to say he saw Dementors). Luckily however, Mrs. Figgs, who was at a distance, was not affected by the blackout fog and could bear witness.


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