Religion and science fiction

[Joseph_F]

This will be heavily based on a class I took a few years ago. I actually still am in contact with the professor who taught that class, so I might even be able to get him in here to make a few comments, but no promises.

There is an interesting relationship between science fiction and religion that is different from religion's relationship with other genres. Science fiction's tendency to create worlds that are not our own but very similar to our own allows us to consider our humanity and our relationship to the universe in a similar way that religion does.

I don't want to get into all of this at once, because then this first post would be way too long and there wouldn't be as much room for discussion. But there's a lot to think about here: for instance, why does the genre of science fiction often end up involving religion in a way that the fantasy genre does not? What might it mean that  accounts of alien abductions are very similar to accounts of encounters with angels? Can a science fiction story lead to the same questions, answers, or even spiritual feelings as a religious story, and what might that mean?

Here's a short list of a few science fiction books heavily involved with religion, feel free to mention others:

A Canticle for Leibowitz 

Catholic monks living in a post-apocolyptic world. I found this a bit slow, but it's one that's likely to come up with a discussion of sci-fi and religion.

Snow Crash 

A well-known classic of the cyberpunk genre mainly popular because of its action and its sense of humor, but it also has some fascinating ideas on religion in the age of computers and science, as well as an entirely made up but entertainingly logical connection between Babylonian history, the tower of Babel, and Pentecostal Christianity.

Valis 

Philip K Dick explores Gnosticism (he was Gnostic himself) through messages a fictional version of himself may or may not be receiving through lasers from a satellite orbiting Earth. On a similar note, the movie Blade Runner and the Philip K Dick book it is based on both present a kind of Gnostic version of the Eden story. More on that later if people are interested.

I will continue mentioning books and bringing up other points as the thread progresses, but I want to open it up to discussion early so others can bring their prospective. So, what do you think?

[Jon_B]

Great post Joseph - I've got one addition:

Lamentation by Ken Scholes.  This is his debut, the first book in his Psalms of Isaak series.  Ken was a guest in our Fantasy and Scifi board last month and it was a huge hit.  Personally I loved the book and I'm eagerly awaiting the next in the series, which I believe is due sometime in the fall.  It is quite often compared with A Canticle for Liebowitz which is clearly an influence but its also a very unique book and universe.  It starts off seeming more like a fantasy novel but soon reveals itself to be more in the scifi realm, taking place in the ruins of a once highly advanced civilization.  Religion plays a large role in the book.  The author is a former Baptist minister, and one of the books central theme is the contrast between organized religion and personal spirituality, and the sacrificies that the religious must make and the contradictions they must live in order to continue the core elements of their faith.  There are some great, compelling characters and Scholes has clearly thought out this world very well.  Definitely a unique and hopefully soon-to-be well known series on the intersection of scifi, fantasy, and spiritual writing.

Also Valis - a truly wonderful book - is actually sort of part of a trilogy of religiously-inspired scifi books by Dick.  There's also The Divine Invasion  and The Transmigration of Timothy Archer which cover similar ground (i.e. they are also very much about Gnosticism) but in very different settings.   There's also Radio Free Albemuth  which was released posthumousely, and which is somewhat connected to the VALIS series as well as to several of his other books.

Message Edited by Jon_B on 03-31-2009 11:55 AM

[Nadine]

This is a facinating subject, Joseph. Science Fiction often tries to cast religion into a new prespective. I have just started reading A Canticle for Liebowitz (Miller was  Catholic) but so far it sems to be mainly outer trappings--the organization, function, and sacrament references--that make it religious. I don't think the content addresses religious issues except possibly sainthood but I'm not very far along in the book. C.S Lewis's trilogy, Out of the Silent Planet, Perlandra, and That Hiddeous Strength, (I have not read any of them) is a reflection of his personal faith as well as some of his Fantasy Narnia. His Dark Materials by agnostic (or is he an atheist?) Phillip Pullman has a lot of religion in it from a merger of church and state with a dominent religious political structure and the last volume of the trilogy, The Amber Spyglass, which focuses on angels, God and Milton's Paradise Lost.

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Joseph_F wrote:

This will be heavily based on a class I took a few years ago. I actually still am in contact with the professor who taught that class, so I might even be able to get him in here to make a few comments, but no promises.

There is an interesting relationship between science fiction and religion that is different from religion's relationship with other genres. Science fiction's tendency to create worlds that are not our own but very similar to our own allows us to consider our humanity and our relationship to the universe in a similar way that religion does.

I don't want to get into all of this at once, because then this first post would be way too long and there wouldn't be as much room for discussion. But there's a lot to think about here: for instance, why does the genre of science fiction often end up involving religion in a way that the fantasy genre does not? What might it mean that  accounts of alien abductions are very similar to accounts of encounters with angels? Can a science fiction story lead to the same questions, answers, or even spiritual feelings as a religious story, and what might that mean?

Here's a short list of a few science fiction books heavily involved with religion, feel free to mention others:

A Canticle for Leibowitz 

Catholic monks living in a post-apocolyptic world. I found this a bit slow, but it's one that's likely to come up with a discussion of sci-fi and religion.

Snow Crash 

A well-known classic of the cyberpunk genre mainly popular because of its action and its sense of humor, but it also has some fascinating ideas on religion in the age of computers and science, as well as an entirely made up but entertainingly logical connection between Babylonian history, the tower of Babel, and Pentecostal Christianity.

Valis 

Philip K Dick explores Gnosticism (he was Gnostic himself) through messages a fictional version of himself may or may not be receiving through lasers from a satellite orbiting Earth. On a similar note, the movie Blade Runner and the Philip K Dick book it is based on both present a kind of Gnostic version of the Eden story. More on that later if people are interested.

I will continue mentioning books and bringing up other points as the thread progresses, but I want to open it up to discussion early so others can bring their prospective. So, what do you think?

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[Laurel]

Nadine, I was just going to add C.S. Lewis's trilogy when I saw your post. I have read the three books many times, especially the first two. My favorite (one of my all-time favorites is Peralandra, the second book. It's sort of the Paradise Lost of Venus, exploring the question, "What would have happened if Eve had not yielded to temptation? Here are all three books in the trilogy:

1. Out of the Silent Planet 

2.Perelandra 

3.That Hideous Strength   

[Brad_W]

I'll try this again. 

I think this is a genre in which the "unknown" and the mysticism surrounding religion is best explored.  For example, I like the 'Robot Series' from Asimov.  One of the things I like about these stories is because it touches on that desire of man to create life.  Interestingly enough, in all stories similar to this man never creates that which he does not desire to control the creation and use it to serve us.  In contrast, we as humans are created with free-will with the choice to serve or not serve a creator as we inidivdually understand one. 

Dean Koontz also does an amazing job exploring the whole creation thing in his Frankenstein series.  It becomes mind-boggling when you really start to think into the theme of things in those books. 

[Ryan_G]

I think you would also need to add the Dune series of book by Frank Herbert.  Between Paul Atreidies becoming the messiah, the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood, Fishspeakers, Alia of the Knife, Leto II, there is so much religion and myth building throughout the books.

I tried adding the link to the book through add produt but it wouldn't let me. 

Message Edited by Ryan_G on 04-01-2009 08:09 PM

[Joseph_F]

Ok, so for part 2 of me doing my best to remember the content of a class from a few years ago, let's tackle the first of my discussion questions: Fantasy and sci-fi are often grouped together as genres. But why are religious and spiritual questions far more prevalent in the latter?

Here is my answer, off the top of my head. Feel free to jump in with your own opinion. Science fiction and fantasy both involve world building. By definition, they have to take place in a reality at least somewhat different from the one we live in, and so the author at a certain point has to define that world and the rules by which that world works. 

Fantasy has a lot more leeway here. Just about anything in the fictional world can be explained away with magic, while in science fiction there has to be some sort of technological sounding explanation, however slight. This small concession to reality on the part of science fiction means that its worlds feel just a little bit more like our own, no matter how outlandish. Fantasy worlds have miracles, science fiction worlds have advanced technology.

This seems like a small difference, but since one of the fundamental problems of any human religion is dealing with the divine in a world without visible miracles, in a world where believers have to keep their faith in the face of a reality that sometimes seems brutal and godless, that small difference means science fiction can approach not just religion but  basic human questions of meaning and spirituality in a way that fantasy cannot.

In other words, it would be hard to find a fantasy character's crisis of faith particularly affecting when in the next scene he is taking all sorts of magic and miracles in stride. Science fiction is just a tiny bit more tied to our reality, and that tie is all the difference.

But that's only my explanation. What do you think?

[Brad_W]

Interesting.  I agree that Sci-fi takes on more of the "creation" and control aspect of religion.  Whereas, fantasy seeks to bring to life the "flash and bang" and mysticism components of religious stories. 

In terms of characters and the spiritual turmoils or struggles, I think that is present in both types of books.  It depends on the reader in terms of the "affect".   Because no matter what is read, all readers will have different perspectives because we have all had different life experiences.  Therefore the relationship to story, events, and characters will be different for every reader. 

This part you bring up is really interesting:

"This seems like a small difference, but since one of the fundamental problems of any human religion is dealing with the divine in a world without visible miracles, in a world where believers have to keep their faith in the face of a reality that sometimes seems brutal and godless, that small difference means science fiction can approach not just religion but  basic human questions of meaning and spirituality in a way that fantasy cannot." 

"In a world without visible miracles".  I always wonder about being right there when the miracles of Biblical scripture actually happened.  Was it really "flash and bang" as it is often intepreted.  Or were they events that many just kind of took as coincidence.  For example, the earthquake that is mentioned when Jesus died on the Cross, how many just took cover but never put 2 and 2 together?  Therefore, are "miracles" today so invisible?  I think it is how one looks at the world around them.  For example, I have sat in on meetings of a support group with a friend  of mine and just listened and looked at faces; I can tell you I have seen almost every miracle of the New Testament.  I don't mean to sound crazy, but I think we drastically misundertand the notion of "miracle".  Those "miracle" stories are far larger than what they appear on the surface.  For example, the "blind man who regains his sight" is really a story of spritual awakening.  Paul encountering Jesus and losing his sight then regaining it, is a story of becoming blind to our old ways and seeing the world anew (a new pair of glasses if you will).  It's a whole new world when faith happens for someone. Lazarus being "risen from the dead" is again a story of "rebirth" through faith.  We see people changed and "reborn" in faith quite often.  So are those "miracles" really so invisible today?   

Sorry didn't mean to get off track.   

[Brad_W]

Just to add one more thought I forgot to mention, Fantasy seems to me to focus more on the battle between good and evil in terms of religious theme.  This is also present in the sci-fi especially if you look at Star Wars.  But it often is the main theme of fantasy books. 

[drumrebrown]

I am reading

Circle Trilogy Complete  

and I was having trouble figuring out exactly if this was fantasy or sci-fi and have came to the conclusion by the ongoing conversation that it is both. Thank you for helping me with classifing that.

[Joseph_F]

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bwest2 wrote:

Interesting.  I agree that Sci-fi takes on more of the "creation" and control aspect of religion.  Whereas, fantasy seeks to bring to life the "flash and bang" and mysticism components of religious stories.

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This is an interesting point. One could argue that fantasy books are written (intentionally I think) in forms similar to religious myths. But it strikes me (and maybe this is only due to my own dislike of fantasy) that this is an imitation of form rather than of content, essentially that fantasy books are using the style for purely aesthetic reasons and in fact spiritually are usually fairly empty. Meanwhile sci-fi rarely imitates the form of myths but  the nature of the genre is to posit alternate worlds for humans to live in, and in that process questions of human nature and spirituality come up naturally. 

[Brad_W]

I agree in some respects. What is an author's intention is difficult to know. I think most author's of this genre are minds which think in terms of other "worlds" other than the one they see around them. In addition, are those themes only coming out to readers who have a religious background. For example, it's quite often that most people read a book and enjoy the story without ever "getting" a religious theme anywhere within the story. Then a news report or someone else mentions that perspective and then they start down that line of thought. So whether intentional or not is very difficult to assess. Religion speaks to life, and therefore you will find aspects of it within anything that you read in my opinion. In terms of the combination of the genres, drumreborwn made a great point. Often times the stories are very similar and determining a separation of "sci-fi" or "fantasy" becomes almost impossible. Whereas in other areas of fiction such as "romance" or "mystery" you have more clear separations. Some of the romance that is coming out now is even difficult to determine if it's "fantasy" or not. Just some thoughts.

[Laurel]

Joseph, what of The Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, and the fantasy works of George Macdonald and Charles Williams?

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Joseph_F wrote:

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bwest2 wrote:

Interesting.  I agree that Sci-fi takes on more of the "creation" and control aspect of religion.  Whereas, fantasy seeks to bring to life the "flash and bang" and mysticism components of religious stories.

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This is an interesting point. One could argue that fantasy books are written (intentionally I think) in forms similar to religious myths. But it strikes me (and maybe this is only due to my own dislike of fantasy) that this is an imitation of form rather than of content, essentially that fantasy books are using the style for purely aesthetic reasons and in fact spiritually are usually fairly empty. Meanwhile sci-fi rarely imitates the form of myths but  the nature of the genre is to posit alternate worlds for humans to live in, and in that process questions of human nature and spirituality come up naturally. 

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[Raven_Lunatic]

I've always thought that fantasy and real-world religion are somewhat incompatible.

The whole point of religion is that it posits that the world works in a certain way. The whole point of high fantasy is that it posits the world works in a different way, usually involving a different world altogether. Religion might say, for example, that there is one God, the Pastafarians are the chosen people, vampires and fairies don't exist, and that doing magic is the sign of the devil. If you want to write a story that takes place in an imaginary Pastafarian-free universe full of wizards, there's going to be some conflict.

You could write urban fantasy with the supernatural beings being called angels instead of elves, but that's about it.

Science fiction, on the other hand, has more leeway. The usual conceit on sci-fi is that it takes place in more or less the real world. A version of the world that's in the future, or where cold fission has been discovered, but basically the real world. So you can have Pastafarians on spaceships, worshipping the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and doing impossible things without having to resort to the dreaded magic.

At least, that's how it seems to me.

[Nadine]

The others are good possibilities but we had a 152 message discussion on Religion in The Lord of the Rings in SF/Fantasy and could not find any religion in it. Tolkien was against putting religion into such stories.

 

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Laurel wrote:
Joseph, what of The Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, and the fantasy works of George Macdonald and Charles Williams?

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Joseph_F wrote:

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bwest2 wrote:

Interesting.  I agree that Sci-fi takes on more of the "creation" and control aspect of religion.  Whereas, fantasy seeks to bring to life the "flash and bang" and mysticism components of religious stories.

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This is an interesting point. One could argue that fantasy books are written (intentionally I think) in forms similar to religious myths. But it strikes me (and maybe this is only due to my own dislike of fantasy) that this is an imitation of form rather than of content, essentially that fantasy books are using the style for purely aesthetic reasons and in fact spiritually are usually fairly empty. Meanwhile sci-fi rarely imitates the form of myths but  the nature of the genre is to posit alternate worlds for humans to live in, and in that process questions of human nature and spirituality come up naturally. 

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[Laurel]

Tolkien did not put religion into his books, but the world he created would not have been the same had he not been the deeply religious man he was. My point, though, was that these are all fantasy books, not science fiction, and they are all, in my opinion, religious from the ground up.

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Nadine wrote:

The others are good possibilities but we had a 152 message discussion on Religion in The Lord of the Rings in SF/Fantasy and could not find any religion in it. Tolkien was against putting religion into such stories.

 

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Laurel wrote:
Joseph, what of The Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, and the fantasy works of George Macdonald and Charles Williams?

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Joseph_F wrote:

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bwest2 wrote:

Interesting.  I agree that Sci-fi takes on more of the "creation" and control aspect of religion.  Whereas, fantasy seeks to bring to life the "flash and bang" and mysticism components of religious stories.

---

This is an interesting point. One could argue that fantasy books are written (intentionally I think) in forms similar to religious myths. But it strikes me (and maybe this is only due to my own dislike of fantasy) that this is an imitation of form rather than of content, essentially that fantasy books are using the style for purely aesthetic reasons and in fact spiritually are usually fairly empty. Meanwhile sci-fi rarely imitates the form of myths but  the nature of the genre is to posit alternate worlds for humans to live in, and in that process questions of human nature and spirituality come up naturally. 

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Message Edited by Laurel on 04-03-2009 10:57 AM

Message Edited by Laurel on 04-03-2009 10:59 AM

[Ryan_G]

Raven,

I'm not sure I agree.  I think Fantasy actually lends itslef to exploring religion easier than SciFi.  Taking things to that high of a technology in same way almost limits refering to a higher being.  Where fantasy allows you to create entire worlds where God (or gods and godesses) hold sway.  Guy Gavriel Kay is one author I can think of off the top of my head who weaves religion into his books in almost a poetic way.  There are whole series of books that are about the good gods trying to prevail over the bad gods.  Morality, faith, judgement, salvation are themse found throught fantasy novels.

Lions of Al Rassan

A Song for Arbonne 

Sailing to Sarantium 

[Raven_Lunatic]

Good point. What I meant is, it's harder to have a real-world religion transplanted to fantasyland. But making up your own religion, or even having a thinly-veiled alternate version of a real religion is a lot easier.

[Joseph_F]

Ok, so we seem to have exhausted the question of the spiritual differences between fantasy and sci-fi. So let's move on to another discussion question.

One thing my professor noted was the myriad similarities between accounts of encounters with angels and accounts of alien abductions. The sensory experiences described were very similar, but also the emotions and spiritual effects evoked. This point can serve as a gateway into another interesting field: sci-fi as a spiritual structure. 

Here we have to consider not religion's source, but religion's purpose for a believer. What spiritual needs does any given religion provide for a believer and would it be possible for science fiction of any kind to meet those needs? If someone believed in alien visitations and the existence of other civilizations in contact with our own, would that give them some of the same needs that belief in a theological structure fills? If so, what does that mean for those spiritual needs? Can they just be filled by anything?

Here we could get into Joseph Campbell's comparison of Star Wars to the heroic structure of many myths, but I want to let other people discuss this area first.