The Shack: Chapters 1 & 2 and Foreword [ Edited ]

[Joseph_F]

A little early, but I might not have time tomorrow morning soooooo:

Welcome to The Shack. Here's a thread for initial thoughts about the book as well as discussion of the Foreword. Some discussion questions:

1. Most of this section is setting up the character of Mack. Do you feel that at the end of it you came away with a good grasp of what he's like? How well will this type of character function as a spiritual stand-in for us throughout the book?

2. On page 10, there is a very casual and brief implication that Mack murdered his father. What do you think of this and does it affect you view of the character?

3. If someone loves talking about God and regularly attends church, what exactly does it mean to say that he is "not religious"? Can you be religious and not do either of those things?

4. If you've read the back of the book, then you probably have a sense already of what "The Great Sadness" is? But what do you think the use of capitalization and italics means for that phrase? Does it turn it less from a description of a feeling to a philosophical idea? Or is it just a literary technique to keep you interested?

Alright, get a-talking if you feel like it! 

Message Edited by Joseph_F on 04-30-2009 11:51 PM

Message Edited by Joseph_F on 05-08-2009 01:27 PM

[Fozzie]

Here are a few thoughts: 

1. Most of this section is setting up the character of Mack. Do you feel that at the end of it you came away with a good grasp of what he's like? How well will this type of character function as a spiritual stand-in for us throughout the book?

It seemed to me that Mack was unconventional, has had some hard times, but is a good citizen.  I felt like I was getting ready to read a documentary.

2. On page 10, there is a very casual and brief implication that Mack murdered his father. What do you think of this and does it affect you view of the character?

I'd like to know the circumstances. 

3. If someone loves talking about God and regularly attends church, what exactly does it mean to say that he is "not religious"? Can you be religious and not do either of those things?

You can be religious and not talk about God or attend church.  You can do those things and not be religious if you are going through the motions, doing and saying what you think people expect and what you should do, but have no inner faith to back up your motions.

4. If you've read the back of the book, then you probably have a sense already of what "The Great Sadness" is? But what do you think the use of capitalization and italics means for that phrase? Does it turn it less from a description of a feeling to a philosophical idea? Or is it just a literary technique to keep you interested?

The use of capitalization and italics emphasize the phrase in the text so that we, the readers, can understand how much The Great Sadness influences, encompasses, and controls Mack's life. 

[aprilh]

1. Most of this section is setting up the character of Mack. Do you feel that at the end of it you came away with a good grasp of what he's like? How well will this type of character function as a spiritual stand-in for us throughout the book?

I am interested in reading on and hearing Mack's story. He had problems with his father early on and ended up leaving home at thirteen. My thoughts so far are that more people will be able to relate to him since he did not live a perfect life.

2. On page 10, there is a very casual and brief implication that Mack murdered his father. What do you think of this and does it affect you view of the character?

We learned in the foreward that Mack's father was not a very nice man. He was an alcoholic that beat his wife and Mack. I was slightly shocked when the reading implied Mack killed his father, but I felt I couldn't blame Mack. Maybe it was his way of saving the rest of his family from his father? I hope we read more about this later.

3. If someone loves talking about God and regularly attends church, what exactly does it mean to say that he is "not religious"? Can you be religious and not do either of those things?

I think you can be religious and not attend church. There are some who believe having a one on one relationship with God is preferable to attending church and talking about Him to others.

4. If you've read the back of the book, then you probably have a sense already of what "The Great Sadness" is? But what do you think the use of capitalization and italics means for that phrase? Does it turn it less from a description of a feeling to a philosophical idea? Or is it just a literary technique to keep you interested?

The use of the phrase "The Great Sadness" gives me a feeling of the hurt and despair Mack felt on a daily basis. It served its purpose well letting the reader in on the depth of Mack's pain.

[Joseph_F]

 Since the book itself concerns another murder, I also hope that this brief mention gets a deeper look later.

Sorry for being late with Chapter 1 discussion questions. They're coming!

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aprilh wrote:

We learned in the foreward that Mack's father was not a very nice man. He was an alcoholic that beat his wife and Mack. I was slightly shocked when the reading implied Mack killed his father, but I felt I couldn't blame Mack. Maybe it was his way of saving the rest of his family from his father? I hope we read more about this later.

---

[Joseph_F]

Chapter 1:

Here we finally get to see Mack as a character for ourselves, rather than hear about him from the narrator. How did he compare to the man the foreword had prepared you for? 

Personally, I found him less aloof than the author had made him sound before putting us in his thoughts. Knowing a little about what The Great Sadness is, I found his reactions to the note from "Papa" to be more shallow than I expected. He seemed mildly annoyed at best when something like that should really shake him, perhaps get him worried that the rest of his family was in danger. It did not seem plausible to me that this was really a man in mourning, but there were touches that were good. His desire to protect his family over the phone even when there was nothing he could do, his nightmares. These cracks in his calm manner made him easier to sympathize with.

Chapter 2

Here we meet Missy, the child he is mourning. I liked the tension he built, and was driven to get on to the next chapter since everything was still so calm and peaceful and yet we know where this story will end. 

I was bothered by the "Great Spirit" story since without the justification of redemption and Jesus as God's manifestation, the Great Spirit story seemed to be the story of a God demanding a blood sacrifice for no reason whatsoever. Then I really liked that the book itself, through Missy, called it on that, pointing out the cruelty of the story and then even daring to connect that nagging problem to the story of Jesus. I'm excited that the book doesn't shy away from difficult questions like that, and I'm interested to see how it'll tackle them. 

What did you all think?

[Peppermill]

I participated in a group discussion of The Shack last night.

One of the women present described attending a megachurch presentation by Mr. Young where the entire church was packed to hear him talk about this story.

She indicated that there are YouTube interviews with Mr. Young available.  I have not gone looking for them.

[Fozzie]

I remember thinking that Mack seemed like a regular guy, not any different from "the man on the street."  He also seems like he is easily annoyed.

I liked the Great Spirit story because I like to learn about different cultures and beliefs.  I am always struck by the similarities between cultures rather than the differences, and this was no exception. 

---

Joseph_F wrote:

Chapter 1:

Here we finally get to see Mack as a character for ourselves, rather than hear about him from the narrator. How did he compare to the man the foreword had prepared you for? 

Personally, I found him less aloof than the author had made him sound before putting us in his thoughts. Knowing a little about what The Great Sadness is, I found his reactions to the note from "Papa" to be more shallow than I expected. He seemed mildly annoyed at best when something like that should really shake him, perhaps get him worried that the rest of his family was in danger. It did not seem plausible to me that this was really a man in mourning, but there were touches that were good. His desire to protect his family over the phone even when there was nothing he could do, his nightmares. These cracks in his calm manner made him easier to sympathize with.

Chapter 2

Here we meet Missy, the child he is mourning. I liked the tension he built, and was driven to get on to the next chapter since everything was still so calm and peaceful and yet we know where this story will end. 

I was bothered by the "Great Spirit" story since without the justification of redemption and Jesus as God's manifestation, the Great Spirit story seemed to be the story of a God demanding a blood sacrifice for no reason whatsoever. Then I really liked that the book itself, through Missy, called it on that, pointing out the cruelty of the story and then even daring to connect that nagging problem to the story of Jesus. I'm excited that the book doesn't shy away from difficult questions like that, and I'm interested to see how it'll tackle them. 

What did you all think?

---

[Joseph_F]

I don't believe the Great Spirit story is an actual myth from any native american tribe. I could be wrong but I believe the author invented it for this novel.

---

Fozzie wrote:

I remember thinking that Mack seemed like a regular guy, not any different from "the man on the street."  He also seems like he is easily annoyed.

I liked the Great Spirit story because I like to learn about different cultures and beliefs.  I am always struck by the similarities between cultures rather than the differences, and this was no exception. 

---

[Laurel]

You can read the legend here or here. I haven't been to Multnomah Falls in many years, but I remember it as a gorgeous site.

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Joseph_F wrote:
I don't believe the Great Spirit story is an actual myth from any native american tribe. I could be wrong but I believe the author invented it for this novel.

---

[Joseph_F]

My apologies, I didn't know this.

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Laurel wrote:
You can read the legend here or here. I haven't been to Multnomah Falls in many years, but I remember it as a gorgeous site.

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Joseph_F wrote:
I don't believe the Great Spirit story is an actual myth from any native american tribe. I could be wrong but I believe the author invented it for this novel.

---

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[Fozzie]

I hadn't heard the story before, so I researched it.  I love picking up tidbits like this from books.

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Joseph_F wrote:
My apologies, I didn't know this.

---

Laurel wrote:
You can read the legend here or here. I haven't been to Multnomah Falls in many years, but I remember it as a gorgeous site.

---

Joseph_F wrote:
I don't believe the Great Spirit story is an actual myth from any native american tribe. I could be wrong but I believe the author invented it for this novel.

---

---

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[aprilh]

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Joseph_F wrote:

Chapter 1:

Here we finally get to see Mack as a character for ourselves, rather than hear about him from the narrator. How did he compare to the man the foreword had prepared you for? 

I agree with Fozzie. Mack seems like any other "regular guy" I would meet on the street. To me, he seems more annoyed at the mailman for delivering the note he receives in his mailbox signed Papa, then actually receiving the note itself. He is so annoyed with the mailman, he calls the post office to complain, only to find out the mailman hadn't delivered any mail to his house that day. In the foreward we are lead to believe he may have poisioned his father, so is the note a hoax or is his father still alive? We'll have to wait and see.

Chapter 2

Here we meet Missy, the child he is mourning. I liked the tension he built, and was driven to get on to the next chapter since everything was still so calm and peaceful and yet we know where this story will end. 

I was bothered by the "Great Spirit" story since without the justification of redemption and Jesus as God's manifestation, the Great Spirit story seemed to be the story of a God demanding a blood sacrifice for no reason whatsoever. Then I really liked that the book itself, through Missy, called it on that, pointing out the cruelty of the story and then even daring to connect that nagging problem to the story of Jesus. I'm excited that the book doesn't shy away from difficult questions like that, and I'm interested to see how it'll tackle them. 

What did you all think?

From reading the back of the book we know something is going to happen to Missy. When I learned Mack was taking the kids on a camping trip, I was filled with dread, wondering if this is where The Great Sadness begins. After Mack tells the story of the Great Spirit, my heart caught in my throat when Missy asks on page 31, "Will I ever have to jump off a cliff?" When Mack assures her he would never ask her to jump off a cliff, she asks, "Then will God ever ask me to jump off a cliff?" It gave me an ominous feeling, knowing what's to come.

---

 

[Fozzie]

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aprilh wrote:

From reading the back of the book we know something is going to happen to Missy. When I learned Mack was taking the kids on a camping trip, I was filled with dread, wondering if this is where The Great Sadness begins. After Mack tells the story of the Great Spirit, my heart caught in my throat when Missy asks on page 31, "Will I ever have to jump off a cliff?" When Mack assures her he would never ask her to jump off a cliff, she asks, "Then will God ever ask me to jump off a cliff?" It gave me an ominous feeling, knowing what's to come.

---

I didn't like reading the first section of the book at all.  I don't read crime fiction, and I felt like that was what I was reading.  I think the book gets much better after the early section, although the background was necessary.

[Joseph_F]

Hi everyone, my apologies for disappearing for awhile, but I went on vacation and internet access was not as easily accesible as I thought it would be.

Obviously we will not be finishing the book this month, but I'm rolling over the books to next month as well, so it should give us plenty of time to get through them.

[LindenTree09]

I think that it is easy to identify with Mack not about his childhood but about the person he is trying to be. I think that we did not need to know all about Mack's character in the first chapters. Mack like as many people hides behind a mask. The author tries to reveal Mack as if you were trying to really get to know him. Mack is a good person despite his past.

The casual hint that Mack might have kiilled his father was interesting. The need to protect ones self is strong. Mack does not seem like that type of character.

[successKN]

I see Mack as a normal American male, he believes in God but with an image that is differnt from what the Holy one is really like. He goes to church when the time is right he does not push himself or impose his views on others. His family has its own ups and downs like everyone else. He seeks to provide for his family, find answers to questions and find solutions to problems.