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mamiesmith
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎09-20-2008

What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

The Lord's Prayer is known throughout the world, but I ask how many people have taken the time to really find out what it means.

 

"Our Father" refers to God, whom Jesus regarded as not only His father, but ours also.  Why else did He say "Our Father."

 

"Which art in heaven."   Many view heaven a a place in the sky where one goes if he is a good person.  I view heaven as "harmony."  Therefore Jesus is saying that

if one connects with God, he will have a sense of harmony or peace in his life.  This peace in an inward thing.  So, you could conceiveably be in a storm and feel a sense of peace.

 

"Hallowed be thy name."  God is to be adored, honored and held in high esteem.

 

"Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."  Help us to know and understand that God is supreme when things are harmonious in our lives, as well as when they seem not to be.   In the most challenging experiences and conditions, He is still there with us, embracing and lifting us up.  We just have to acknowledge Him.

 

"Give us this day our daily bread."  Bread signifies the "word of God," not food.  Therfore, Jesus encourages us to let the word of God or truth be the first thing that we arm ourselves with each day.  And when we do, even when our ability to love is severely threatened, we can be loving and affectionate.

 

"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."  What are the debts that we owe, and to whom do we owe them?  The only debt we owe is to God, and that debt is our inability at times to demonstrate His laws, or be a witness to His truth.  Even to acknowledge that we cannot obey His laws or that some one else cannot obey His laws, is part of that indebtness, because He made us in His "image."  Therefore, we can always reflect all that He is.  Every person who does not see us as this "child of God" is one of our debtors.  Most people believe that a debt is money or some material object.  I do not share that view.  We owe love, patience, respect, understanding, peace and joy to everyone, no matter what the circumstances are.  Love is not given to appease someone else, it is given so that we can receive the purification that it brings.

 

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."  God never tempts us, challenges us (as some believe).  How could He, when He Himself only knows love and goodness?  Uniting with God delivers us FROM sin, sickness, and death.  What would God accomplish by tempting us?  Temptation is a human quality, not a divine one.  We are made in God's likeness, not He in ours.  God is never flesh and blood.  He is Spirit.  I know there are many who believe that Jesus is God.  I do not share that belief, mainly because Jesus Himself said that He is the "Son of God."  Also John says "now are WE the sons of God."  A son of God is a person who obeys and demonstrates God's laws.  Since Jesus did this better than any person who as ever walked the face of the earth, He has earned the title, "The Son of God."

 

"For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever."  God, nothing else, is the the only power.  He is all Life. Truth, and Love--over all people and things, and is the only ALL.

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TiggerBear
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

You know there's more than one version of the lords prayer.
Frequent Contributor
mamiesmith
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎09-20-2008
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

What is your version Tigger?

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Peppermill
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

I just had the privilege of spending six weeks (I did miss two sessions of those six) with a Lenten small group reflecting on the Lord's prayer, a phrase or two each week.  There is certainly much to consider in those few words and a deep richness to be brought to them by considering a variety of resources and viewpoints, whether Biblical, the writings of those  theologically trained, or the personal reflections of self and colleagues.

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Jon_B
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

There are some churches that say "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" instead of the line about "debtors", which is related but still brings a fairly different meaning to that part of the prayer.

 

 

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Laurel
Posts: 5,747
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

Christ gave a sample prayer twice, once in the context of a dissertation about prayer (Matthew 6), and once when He had been praying and one of the disciples asked Him to teach them to pray (Luke 11). The sample prayers are slightly different from each other:

 

 9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

 10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

 11Give us this day our daily bread.

 12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.   --Matthew 6

 

 

2And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

 3Give us day by day our daily bread.

 4And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.   --Luke 11

 

 


Jon_B wrote:

There are some churches that say "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" instead of the line about "debtors", which is related but still brings a fairly different meaning to that part of the prayer.

 

 


 

 

"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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Peppermill
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

Another variant:

 

The Lord's Prayer

Our Father who art in heaven;
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass
against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom
and the power and the glory
forever and ever. Amen
 
 
I learned this variant as a child and still often add the concluding "and ever" silently, since my present denomination does not use it.
 
Here are some words from a Lutheran confirmation lesson on meanings of the phrases and petitions.
 
 
 
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

That is the version I was brought up on.


Jon_B wrote:

There are some churches that say "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" instead of the line about "debtors", which is related but still brings a fairly different meaning to that part of the prayer.

 

 


 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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Everyman
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

That was my childhood version also, except that we said "which art in Heaven," not "who art in Heven."  But yes, we said the extra for ever. 

 


Peppermill wrote:

Another variant:

 

The Lord's Prayer

Our Father who art in heaven;
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass
against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom
and the power and the glory
forever and ever. Amen
 
 
I learned this variant as a child and still often add the concluding "and ever" silently, since my present denomination does not use it.
 
Here are some words from a Lutheran confirmation lesson on meanings of the phrases and petitions.
 
 
 

 

 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Inspired Correspondent
utopian
Posts: 103
Registered: ‎04-13-2009

Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

My father did not believe in religion.  He thought they were all nonsense.  The only prayer he knew was the Lord's Prayer as they had recited  it every day during WWII when he was in the service.  He did love to listen to a version that was set to music.

 

60 years after the war, when he was in the hospital, dying, he recited that prayer.

 

That's what it means to me. 

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Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

[ Edited ]

That is the version used in the Church of England P, which I learned at school and can still recite.  I have never heard the use of the words debt or debtors. 

 

This is a performance of it sung at the Royal Albert Hall, which utopian might enjoy.

Message Edited by Choisya on 04-23-2009 05:15 AM
Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

I copied this version from the Lutheran web site cited, but I didn't think about "who" versus "which."  I have become acclimated to that change in ritual, but still stumble over "debts and debtors" occasionally (my son grins at me when he is alongside me and I do -- I may not even notice, apparently).  But, most of all, I miss the ending of going on "forever and ever," even if grammatically redundant and not found in the scriptures.

Everyman wrote:

That was my childhood version also, except that we said "which art in Heaven," not "who art in Heven."  But yes, we said the extra for ever. 

 


Peppermill wrote:

Another variant:

 

The Lord's Prayer

Our Father who art in heaven;
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass
against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom
and the power and the glory
forever and ever. Amen
 
 
I learned this variant as a child and still often add the concluding "and ever" silently, since my present denomination does not use it.
 
Here are some words from a Lutheran confirmation lesson on meanings of the phrases and petitions.
 
 
 


"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
Frequent Contributor
mamiesmith
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎09-20-2008

Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

I would like to express my deep and humble appreciation for all of you who have shared your thoughts, suggestions, and ideas with me.  I was touched by the recounting of the father who recited the Lord's Prayer on his death bed.  It is never too late to connect with God.  He touches each one of us right where we are, and at the right time.  I felt the gratitude from utoplan.  A woman whom I deeply respect stated that "The Lord's Prayer meets all human needs."

 

I would however, like to comment on the responses that saw a difference between "forgive us our debts, as we for give our debtors" and "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."  I see those as spiritually meaning the same thing.  Webster defines "trespass" as " commit a wrong; encroachment; transgress; an offense."  Both versions suggest that a wrong has been either thought, said, or committed.  The wrong, debt, encroacjment, (whatever term one uses) must be eliminated (forgiven) before one can advance spiritually.  In this case, the choice of words are not as important as the spirit of those words.  Even though it is important to understand the Bible literally, it is MORE important to grasp the spirit of words.  In order for Jesus and the prophets to be able to communicate the Word of God" to the world, they had to be connected or as Jesus says, "at one with God."  Similarly, WE have to be at one with God to understand the spiritual meaning.  My greatest revelations come when I am spiritually in tune with God. 

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Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?


mamiesmith wrote:

I would like to express my deep and humble appreciation for all of you who have shared your thoughts, suggestions, and ideas with me.  I was touched by the recounting of the father who recited the Lord's Prayer on his death bed.  It is never too late to connect with God.  He touches each one of us right where we are, and at the right time.  I felt the gratitude from utoplan.  A woman whom I deeply respect stated that "The Lord's Prayer meets all human needs."

 

I would however, like to comment on the responses that saw a difference between "forgive us our debts, as we for give our debtors" and "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."  I see those as spiritually meaning the same thing.  Webster defines "trespass" as " commit a wrong; encroachment; transgress; an offense."  Both versions suggest that a wrong has been either thought, said, or committed.  The wrong, debt, encroacjment, (whatever term one uses) must be eliminated (forgiven) before one can advance spiritually.  In this case, the choice of words are not as important as the spirit of those words.  Even though it is important to understand the Bible literally, it is MORE important to grasp the spirit of words.  In order for Jesus and the prophets to be able to communicate the Word of God" to the world, they had to be connected or as Jesus says, "at one with God."  Similarly, WE have to be at one with God to understand the spiritual meaning.  My greatest revelations come when I am spiritually in tune with God. 


Mamie -- I find it fascinating to consider both how important and how irrelevant both exact wording and variations can be, especially for a passage so well known to so many.  In the contemplation of both considerations, I personally draw elements of spiritual solace. 

 

Thank you for initiating the time and place to do so. 

 

Pepper

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Dreamer4ever
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

The Lord's Prayer to me has meant peace. It's one of those things that when you feel stressed, worried, or just out of touch it's been the thing that feels constant. It has a calming sound and effect. Even more it tells me I'm not alone. It's guidance in pain and hurt in the world.

 

My brother recites the version with debts and debtors, but I prefer the version that says trespasses and those who trespass against us. I don't know why but the words seemed to have more effect.

The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. --Mark Twain
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Volleyballgirl
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎05-26-2009

Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

To answer the original question "What does the Lord's Prayer mean?" i do know what it means. well to as much degree as He has allowed me to understand. Jesus said the Lord's prayer to give us an example of how to pray. i just went through a discipleship group and we had a chapter on this topic. when it starts off in Matthew 6:7: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name."- this is an example that in prayer we are to worship him. tell him how amazing he is! when it says: "Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"- that shows us that we need to yield everything to him. our life, our friends, our family, our money, etc. when it says: " Give us this day our daily bread"- we are recognizing that He is what sustains us. we would not be able to go through our daily lives without Him sustaining us. Continuing, "Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" we confess our sins and agnowledge his forgiveness and that we will live in the same light, forgiving others that hurt us. Also: "Do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one"- this says that we want him to help us flee from temptation and rely on his strength to sustain us and protect us. and lastly: "For Yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory forever" we Acknowledge that God is supreme and can do anything! so that is what i believe what the Lord's Prayer is. hope i was helpful! :smileyhappy:
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IBIS
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

The universality of the "spirit" of the Lord's Prayer is what resonates most with me.

 

Its exact wording... its unlimited variations... its limitless translations ... all very important, and yet paradoxically, also irrelevant.

 

It's the universality of the prayer... the mixture of human thanks, human adoration, human pleading... all these component pieces capture the "spirit" of praying...

 

When I say it privately, it means one thing. When I pray it during Mass within a community, it means something else on a larger scale.

 

To me, that's what makes this prayer so powerful.

 


Peppermill wrote: 

 -- I find it fascinating to consider both how important and how irrelevant both exact wording and variations can be, especially for a passage so well known to so many.  In the contemplation of both considerations, I personally draw elements of spiritual solace. 

 


 

 

IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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Mantheprince
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

Ask Hallowed what it means.:robotindifferent:
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IBIS
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

as in ... Harold be thy name?
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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Mantheprince
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Re: What Does The Lord's Prayer Mean? Do You Really Know?

Well now bub...man is willing to laugh at you but not with you.