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Inspired Contributor
Sarasvati
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎05-28-2009
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i used to be a christian

hello i used to be christian i was raised and born a christian my mother is baptist an my father is catholic. . . i had a seriouse problem with the rligion thats why  i converted  but mybe someone  can help me out by answering some questions

 

  1. why are ther no books written in bible by women
  2. why were things that were written not put into the bible
  3. why werethere two great counsils to decide if jesus's divinty
  4. why was constantien christianed on his death bed
  5. why for a religion who is supposed to be forgiving so judging
  6. why so many secrets
  7. why so contradictory
  8. why force people to believe if its the right thing
  9. why oh why??
Correspondent
WerewolfGirl101
Posts: 795
Registered: ‎05-03-2009
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Re: i used to be a christian

1. back then, the women didnt have all the rights they do today, but many of the women back then did believe.

2. some of the things werent found until later on, like some are still being found

5. it isnt so judging. if you ask for forgiveness from God, he will forgive you, but only if you truly mean it and arent just sayin it so you dont go to hell.

8. we are not forced into beleiving. God gave us a free will, and we choose whether or not to believe in Him. He does want us to believe in Him though. some preachers or other believers, try to force people to believe in Him because they feel theyre doin the right thing when really theyre are pushing them away.

 

i hope this helps!! :smileyvery-happy:

 

and i hope you dont feel presured into believing :smileyvery-happy:

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Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008

Re: i used to be a christian


Sarasvati wrote:

hello i used to be christian i was raised and born a christian my mother is baptist an my father is catholic. . . i had a seriouse problem with the rligion thats why  i converted  but mybe someone  can help me out by answering some questions

 

  1. why are ther no books written in bible by women
  2. why were things that were written not put into the bible
  3. why werethere two great counsils to decide if jesus's divinty
  4. why was constantien christianed on his death bed
  5. why for a religion who is supposed to be forgiving so judging
  6. why so many secrets
  7. why so contradictory
  8. why force people to believe if its the right thing
  9. why oh why??

1. Actually with concerns to the 4 new testament gospels, we don't know. Mathew, Mark, Luke, John  are all anonymous according to books. They were written as "Mark said this", ect.. All of them many years after the fact, John in fact is as close as they can date it 200 years after John's death (or 80 years depending on which fence you sit). So who penned it? (shrug) A hot argument among biblical scholars, look up pseudepigraphical sometime.

 

2. Blame the  

Council of Trent

 

If you want to read as much of the bits left out of the modern bible find a copy of

Other Bible 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. See answer to 2.

 

4. He wanted to be absolved of all his sins. Belief that baptism wiped clean all former sins. Also political, over half of Constantine's country wasn't Christian, including the nobility.  He was playing both sides.

 

5. (chuckle) It's called hypocrisy.

 

6. Retention of power. 

 

7. The bible is a often poorly translated, chopped up, historical, multi language, written over a large period of time. Things change, culture changes; Christianity is slow to change.

 

8. 50% retaining of societal control, 50% for some a genuine wish to save others from torment

 

9. Men suck hun.

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: i used to be a christian

Saravasti -- one of the women who influenced my own thinking about women within Christianity was Mary Daly (e.g., GYN-Ecology, probably out of print now, Beyond God the Father).  She has thought long and hard about many of the questions you pose.  

 

Her writing at the time I read her was strident, even harsh.  I didn't necessarily always agree with her, but she pushed my own thinking.  

 

You might find it interesting to explore some of her more recent work.  Or, there may be other female theologians whose work could be useful to you if you continue to wrestle with such aspects of faith.

 

Pepper

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
Distinguished Correspondent
Joseph_F
Posts: 271
Registered: ‎03-05-2009

Re: i used to be a christian

Hi Sarasvati, 

 

I'm not a Christian, but I can maybe give some of my own answers to your questions.

 

1. Truthfully we don't have any definitive information on who wrote any Biblical books, so we can't say for sure that no women wrote any. Why were none attributed to women? Well, any religious book will reflect the society it's written in, and these books emerged from two different societies (Israelite and Roman) in which many women were likely not even taught how to write, let alone able to distribute their writing to others. As such, it's not surprising that these books were all credited to men. Keep in mind that the Hebrew Bible was first an oral tradition, passed down and elaborated upon before eventually being recorded. So who knows who added and removed during that process?

 

2. Any religious movement will produce a massive volume of religious text. Some from organizations wishing to get their own agenda into the movement, some by individuals who feel they have been divinely inspired to guide the movement in a specific direction. At a certain point a religous organization will have to decide which texts out of this sea of words reflects their actual beliefs and which ones do not. 

 

3. Out of my area of expertise.

 

4. Again.

 

5. Christianity, like any major religion, comes in an almost infinite variety of forms. Some are absolutely forgiving, some are severely judging. I agree with you that certain forms are judgemental in ways that seem to contradict the heart of their theology, but I can't characterize the entire faith based on those sects.

 

6. I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about with this one. It sounds like perhaps this is based on personal experience, which would make it difficult for anyone else to answer.

 

7. Because human beings are contradictory. And the universe is a complicated place. I would argue that any text that didn't contradict itself and present unsolvable paradoxes is not speaking fully to the human condition.

 

8. Again, this is a problem of various sects, and not a problem of the faith itself. Forced conversion is absolutely wrong, as far as I'm concerned, but that's a problem of specific groups and even families.

 

9. Read Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces"


Sarasvati wrote:

hello i used to be christian i was raised and born a christian my mother is baptist an my father is catholic. . . i had a seriouse problem with the rligion thats why  i converted  but mybe someone  can help me out by answering some questions

 

  1. why are ther no books written in bible by women
  2. why were things that were written not put into the bible
  3. why werethere two great counsils to decide if jesus's divinty
  4. why was constantien christianed on his death bed
  5. why for a religion who is supposed to be forgiving so judging
  6. why so many secrets
  7. why so contradictory
  8. why force people to believe if its the right thing
  9. why oh why??

 

Inspired Correspondent
Flowering
Posts: 207
Registered: ‎11-15-2009

Re: i used to be a christian

Hi, I hope I can help. I read somewhere sometime on the internet a few of these topics but am not sure of there accuracy.

 

1.  I believe they found a gospel about Mary Magdaline, but it isnt considered christian.  

 

2.Back in the day when christianity was first forming, many people wrote there own gospels and had there own ideas about christianity and Jesus' teachings. Constantine had his councel, and chose the the gospels we have today to be in the bible, and all other documents were to be destroyed. Some gospels, like the gospel of Thomas were found in Egypt, and they are considered Gnosis gospels. In that gospel, it speaks of jesus not as the saviour but as a guide. And that everyone gains enlightenment in there own unique way.

 

3.Because Constantine picked the ones he liked.

 

4.do not know

 

5.Some parts do seem incredibly judgeing and flawed, but the actual words that were written about Jesus points out that he always forgave sinners. He never judged them. He even pointed out that condeming was a sin, and it made you a hypocrite to judge. Jesus always showed mercy, not because he was above them, but out of an understanding, parantel love.

 

6.What secrets? jk, that answer is to be given by those who keep the secret.

 

7. Perhaps because everyone's opinion back then on christianity was remarkably different.

 

8.that part is on human ignorance. It is not Gods fault humans misuse information.

 

9. Keep asking that question, and dont stop until you find the answer thats suitable for yourself.

New User
luxlipps
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎12-15-2009
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Re: i used to be a christian

I can understand you dilemma. God wrote the bible for the JEW, CHRISTIAN AND THE GENTILE. WOMEN IN THOSE DAYS DID NOT HAVE RIGHTS LIKE WE HAVE TODAY. THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT DID NOT START UNTIL THE 1960S. IN THE JEWISH CULTURE, WOMEN WERE CONSIDERED SECOND CLASS. I AM SURE THERE COULD BE WRITINGS FROM WOMEN, BUT NOT INCLUDED IN THE BIBLE. THE BIBLE IS GOD-INSPIRED AND GOD BREATHED.THE REASON WHY EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THOSE TIMES NOT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE IS BECAUSE GOD WANTED TO SHOW US THAT THE BOOK IS RELEVENT. FOR EXAMPLE, INTHE BOOK OF DANIEL, HE MENTIONED EVENTS THAT WOULD HAPPEN LATER, LIKE THE SPLITTING OF THE KINGDOMS. BACK THEN, IT WAS NOT UNDERSTOOD UNTIL THE EVENTS HAPPENED. YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO THE RESEARCH OF THE PAST ( FOR EAMPLE, THE PERSIANS WERE CONQUERED , THEN THE GREEKS, THEN THE ROMANS TOOK OVER. COMPARING IT TO SCRIPTURE, YOU WILL FIND THAT THE EVENTS RECORDED HAPPENED EXACTLY THE WAY DANIEL HAD PROPHECIED. THE BIBLE IS NOT CONTRADICTORY. YOU WOULD HAVE TO STUDY, NOT JUST READ THE BIBLE TO UNDERSTAN THAT THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENT BLENDS INTO EACH OTHER. COMPARE IT TO HISTORY AND YOU WOULD FIND NO CONTRADITIONS IN SCRIPTURE. WE AS CHRISTIANS CAN NOT FORCE ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING. WE HAVE AFREE WILL TO CHOOSE. WE CAN INTRODUCE SCRIPTURE TO YOU, BUT YOU MUST DECIDE WHAT YOU WILL DO WITH IT. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO ACCEPT OR DENY. IF YOU BELEIVE IN CHRIST, HE WILL SEND THE HOLY SPIRIT TO YOU TO TEACH YOU,BUT, YOU MUST HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND HEART TO RECEIVE IT. IF WE ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS, WE DO NOT JUDGE FOR ALL FALL SHORT IN THE GLORY OF GOD. GOD DOES NOT LIKE SIN. HE IS THE JUDGE, NOT US. WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND ACCORDING TO JESUS, IF ONE IS WITHOUT SIN, MUST THROW THE FIRST ROCK. THE STORY IS IN THE BOOK OF jOHN WHEN THE PRIESTS AND OTHERS WANTED TO STONE A PROSTITUTE. NO ONE STONED HER BECASUE THEY REALIZED THAT THEY WERE AS SINFUL AS SHE.

Inspired Contributor
Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006

Re: Women in ancient texts

Here is some information on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene.  And something about her influence. There is a picture of a fragment of the gospel here together with some comparisons with other religious writings. 


Until the rise of the female novelist in the 18thC, very little work written by women was in the public domain and, as Joseph posted, that was usually written by wealthy women who were the only ones to have an education. In ancient Egypt women were respected in many fields, especially medicine and the first named physician is thought to be Merit Ptah


It is possible that in some parts of the ancient world women became too powerful and that their roles were usurped and 'written out' by men, rather as in our times there has been a movement in the opposite direction, where some women are trying to usurp the roles of men.  Here is some information about aHebrew Goddess who was supposedly 'written out' of the Old Testament.  This website gives information about the women mentioned in both the Old and New Testaments.


I attend the Passover ceremony of Jewish friends every year and in recent years the hostess has sought to commemorate Miriam the prophetess, brother of Moses, and a cup of water is placed on the table alongside Elijah's cup for wine.  Joseph may like to comment upon the significance of adding this ceremony to the traditional Passover celebrations.   


There is a saying about war that 'history is written by the victors'.  So are holy books and until men and women have true equality, the contribution of women to the world's history is likely to be understated.  


Inspired Contributor
Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006

Re: i used to be a christian

[ Edited ]

The Feminist movement did not start until the 1960s.

 

Luxlipps:  You may not realise it but it is considered rude to write posts in upper case/capitals when on the internet and they are also difficult to read.  Also, not all here are christians or believe what you have written here to be factual so please try not to be didactic.

 

The Feminist movement is sometimes said to have started with Mary Wollstonecraft's publication of the Vindication of the Rights of Woman published in 1792. Quaker women in the US were advocating greater rights for women in the 1830s and other women joined them at the Seneca Convention of 1848,  and, of course, the Suffragette movements of the early 19thC were continuing those fights by advocating votes for women. The 1960s movement was just a continuation of what our great grandmothers and grandmothers had already been doing.  

Contributor
Michael-Smith
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎02-04-2010
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Re: i used to be a christian

 


Sarasvati wrote:

hello i used to be christian i was raised and born a christian my mother is baptist an my father is catholic. . . i had a seriouse problem with the rligion thats why  i converted  but mybe someone  can help me out by answering some questions

 

  1. why are ther no books written in bible by women
  2. why were things that were written not put into the bible
  3. why werethere two great counsils to decide if jesus's divinty
  4. why was constantien christianed on his death bed
  5. why for a religion who is supposed to be forgiving so judging
  6. why so many secrets
  7. why so contradictory
  8. why force people to believe if its the right thing
  9. why oh why??

 

 

The answer to all of those questions is "people."

 

Here's Christianity in a nutshell (and I'll get to my people point):

 

God gave humans all the instructions and rituals needed to keep their souls pure (in new age terms: keep their spirits in a compatible vibration with God).  The point was to prove that persons could not keep themselves pure by their own hand, as sin (acts that take your vibration out of phase with God's) is always present.  This was the lesson that we needed to learn so that we would understand Christ's sacrifice.

 

Jesus's death was the final, perpetual ritual to bring people's spirits back to purity.  After this, the only ritual one needed to go through was accepting this sacrifice.  No longer do people need to perform animal sacrifices or perform cleansing rituals... Jesus's death makes them all obsolete.

 

 

That's it.  Christianity is that simple.

 

The problem is people.  People run the churches.  People decide which way to believe is the "correct" way.  People choose to judge others.  People use religion to push their own agendas.  People take things to the extreme.

 

Religion created and ran by people.

 

Which is why I'm not a religious man.

 

But I am a spiritual man and I am a Christian.  I don't let churches, tv shows, professors, televangelists... people... tell me what my faith is.  

 

 

 

Jesus never said "Go out and convert the world."  He said to spread the good news to those who would listen, and not to waste time with those who didn't (parable of sewing seeds on soil versus rock).  He also preached to pray in secret, not in public.

 

But PEOPLE turned "spread the word" into "convert the masses."  People turned faith into religion and politics.

 

 

 

You say you had a serious problem with the religion.  So did I.  I, just like you, left the religion.  But I did, after many years of searching and getting over my bitterness, find my way back to God.

 

Is Christianity for everyone?  Nope.  Even Jesus said as much.  

 

But all the garbage you find in Christianity is typically just what people do with it, not the faith itself.

 

 

 

 

So yeah... people.  We can screw up anything.

Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: i used to be a christian

And wheresoever two or more are gathered together ....

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
Contributor
Texas-Buckeye
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎06-17-2009
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Re: i used to be a christian

I would like to make an attempt at answering your questions.  I will attempt to be brief, but do not count on it.

 

  1. As someone pointed out, this is really a cultural phenomenom.  Women just did not fulfill this role in the ancient world.  The Bible is part of a very small number of ancient texts that do give major roles to women in their narrative.  You have Rahab, Ruth (both are part of the geneology of Christ), and Mary to name a few.  In Judges and the Pauline epistles you will also find women in leadership positions which is also unusual from the period.
  2. I assume that you refer to the Gnostic Gospels that were made popular by Dan Brown's novels.  The main reason they do not appear in the Bible is that they did not exist until the fourth or fifth centuries.  That is the earliest archeological evidence of the texts to date.  The Bible we have was pretty well established by the end of the first century.  For the New Testatment, many were still alive at that time who knew the authors and accepted the texts as original.  The most famous of the Gnostic texts is the Gospel of Thomas.  It is interesting reading, but it is mainly a collection of sayings without any information regarding the context in which those sayings were made.  This leaves the interpretation to the reader as we cannot tell, without context, to what the saying referred.
  3. There were actually three councils that dealt with the divinity of Jesus.  There was never a question as to whether or not he was divine, but the controversy centered around how he was divine.  At Nicaea in 325 the issue was whether Jesus was created or not.  This is known as the Arian controversy as its main teacher was Arius.  Using scripture, primarily the first chapter of John's gospel, the council said that Jesus was not created but was equal with God the Father.  The Nestorian controversy dealt with the nature of Jesus, was he divine or human.  This was debated at Constantinople in 381 and again at Ephesus in 431.  Nestorians hold that Jesus had a single divine nature while others held that Jesus was both wholly human and wholly divine.  The council ended in a schism and there are some churches today that continue to hold to the single nature of Jesus, notably the Coptic church.  Nestorians are a definite minority within the church as the vast majority sided with the councils in proclaiming the duel nature of Christ based upon Scripture.  The text of the creeds and canons of the various councils are available just by searching on line.
  4. We do not know why Constantine waited until he was on his deathbed to be baptised.  There is a lot of speculation regarding this, but as he did not leave or make a confession that was recorded the answer is lost to history.  The practice, however, was not that unusual in the early church.  Many believed that baptism was the method of salvation and that once baptised a sinless life was requried in order to obtain heaven.  The way to avoid sinning after baptism was to be baptised on your death bed.
  5. I would argue that Christianity is not judgemental, but Christians can be.  One of the fundamental doctrines of the faith is that man is a sinner and that he is dead in his sins except through a work of grace by the Holy Spirit.  Although the Christian may be "saved" by grace they do not fully get rid of their sinful nature in this world, although they are still called to work out their salvation.  Those Christians that we rightly view as judgemental need to continue to grow in God's grace and mercy until they can convey the truth of God in a loving manner.  That being said, remember that truth is not relative so even a truth stated in love may be misconstrued by the listener as judgemental.
  6. In this country it seems that we all love conspiracies.  While I do not know what secrets that you mean, there have been groups in the past that held to secrets but not the religion.  One of the results of the Reformation was more openness.  In the Geneva of John Calvin church and state were split.  Calvin saw ith the duty of the church to oversee the moral position of the state and the state had a duty to make sure that the clergy conformed and taught Scripture correctly.
  7. Without examples it is difficult to argue this point, but I have found that most statements about contridictions in Scripture result from things taken out of context. 
  8. Christianity does not force people to believe as that is the work of the Holy Spirit.  Unfortunately, man has attempted this in the name of Christianity.  Their motives, I am sure, was to see everyone saved, but it is not based upon Scripture.  We are called to make disciples of the world, not force disciples from the world.  There is a vast difference there.  This is a general failing of all mankind and is not isolated to religion only.  You can see it in the recent controversy regarding global warming when a group of scientists sought to silence and isolate those with a different view; it is agree with us or else.  This attitude is not good for religion, science, or our every day relations.

I hope you find this of some help. 

Wordsmith
Night_Angel
Posts: 397
Registered: ‎05-10-2009
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Re: i used to be a christian

I can answer only some of these.

 

1. Most women couldn't write a that time, and it was frowned upon by society if a woman could

5. The religion itself isn't judging- it's the people following it and their interpretations that are judging

6. what secrets are you referring to?

7. The bible itself isn't contradictory if you actually read it carefully. it does sound contradictory at times, but it's not.

8. people come off a bit strong at times, but they're just trying to do good in their own way (i think...)

9. why oh why? because people need a belief system to help them through life.