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shirley9440
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Crashing through

What a remarkable life and told so well. I am amazed at the mother who gave her son so much freedom to explore, fail and succeed instead of over-protecting. The story told so well, that it was nearly impossible to put the book down. Bravo!
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Librarian
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Re: Crashing through



shirley9440 wrote:
What a remarkable life and told so well. I am amazed at the mother who gave her son so much freedom to explore, fail and succeed instead of over-protecting. The story told so well, that it was nearly impossible to put the book down. Bravo!



Hi-----Mike's accident happened in 1957. I was a child of the 50's. Our mothers were good mothers but I think children then had more autonomy. My own children and I have a running joke about how did they ever survive my bringing them up. They were children in the 70's and even then it was so different from now. I'm not saying that we didn't try to be careful. We did. Even my mother in the 50s gave us cautions. But today, there are so many warnings printed everywhere. Some are wise. Some protect the proprietor from lawsuit----"Careful--This coffee is extremely hot"
Librarian
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shirley9440
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Re: Crashing through

Librarian,

I was a teenager in the 50's. What wonderful freedom we had. I could go with my friends right after lunch and ride our bikes all over without having to check in at home until dinner time. I really feel for the young people raising children today.

My kids were raised in a small town where everyone knew everyone else so they had the freedom that I had when a child. My grandchildren have a much tighter leash.
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Librarian
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Re: Crashing through

[ Edited ]
Shirley------Do you remember-----Come in when the streetlights go on!
Librarian

Message Edited by Librarian on 07-13-2007 01:32 PM
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shirley9440
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Re: Crashing through

Librarian,

Of course, I remember, "Come in when the street light goes on." Remember catching fireflies in jars and poking holes in the lid to the jar? Did you play Red Rover? Hop scotch? I remember teaching one of my grandchildren how to play hop scotch. I was amazed that she didn't know how to play.

In high school I had a felt skirt with a horse on it instead of a poodle. Wore triple roll bobby socks with saddle shoes.

Not sure if you are male or female, so some of this may have been for you or not.
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Wrighty
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Re: Crashing through


shirley9440 wrote:
Librarian,

Of course, I remember, "Come in when the street light goes on." Remember catching fireflies in jars and poking holes in the lid to the jar? Did you play Red Rover? Hop scotch? I remember teaching one of my grandchildren how to play hop scotch. I was amazed that she didn't know how to play.

In high school I had a felt skirt with a horse on it instead of a poodle. Wore triple roll bobby socks with saddle shoes.

Not sure if you are male or female, so some of this may have been for you or not.




I played Red Rover when I was a kid and I thought it was fun then but I have to say that it's one game I'm glad I don't see around anymore. The first year I taught school I tried to play that with some of my students and it didn't go well at all. I had never realized how obnoxious (and painful) that game is! I didn't try that again. I can't believe we didn't have more broken arms when I played.
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vivico1
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Re: Crashing through


Wrighty wrote:

shirley9440 wrote:
Librarian,

Of course, I remember, "Come in when the street light goes on." Remember catching fireflies in jars and poking holes in the lid to the jar? Did you play Red Rover? Hop scotch? I remember teaching one of my grandchildren how to play hop scotch. I was amazed that she didn't know how to play.

In high school I had a felt skirt with a horse on it instead of a poodle. Wore triple roll bobby socks with saddle shoes.

Not sure if you are male or female, so some of this may have been for you or not.




I played Red Rover when I was a kid and I thought it was fun then but I have to say that it's one game I'm glad I don't see around anymore. The first year I taught school I tried to play that with some of my students and it didn't go well at all. I had never realized how obnoxious (and painful) that game is! I didn't try that again. I can't believe we didn't have more broken arms when I played.


lol I remember all that. How about redlight-greenlight? Or mother may I? Or Simon Says? And jumping ropes to rhymns. Man, so many games to play outside, sure different than the computer/video, stuck in the house, kids of today huh? And camping in the backyard at night too! Hide and seek? IceCream trucks, some still around but not like then. I was a skateboarder too. But we didnt do the EXTREME skateboarding they do today. You guys are teachers, do they still have Dick and Jane books? I was such a smart-a$$ little kid, I remember reading one saying See Dick. See Dick with the ball. See Dick through the ball up. And I looked right at my teacher,probably smirking and said, why did Dick swallow the ball to begin with??? OK, so I didn't need recess that day anyway. ROFL.

I remember getting my first C in anything was in reading in 3rd grade and I didnt know why. My mom asked me about it, I said I dont know. She said but I always see you reading and you read very well. I never read fairytales and never had any read to me as a child. I liked science books, learning about the world stuff. So she went to school and talked to my teacher who said, the children are required to read 3 books a month. My mom said well I know she reads a lot, the teacher said, yes, Vivian averages about 7-8 books a month but lately has only read about 5. My mom said but thats two more than required! The teacher said but thats slow for Vivian. My mom had a fit, told her she couldnt give me a C for doing better than the other kids but less than what I normally do for whatever reason I wanted to LOL. So I got an A. I think it meant more to her than to me. If my mom would have delved much more into why something in my behavior had changed, there were other signs too, she might have saved me from what had been going on for sometime but getting worse and saved me from 4 more years of sexual abuse. BUT, I have always liked to read, always liked to understand what goes on with people and how they work. The things of my past probably played a big part of why I went into psychology, I wanted to know why people did what they did and just how the mind works. Thats why books like these are so intriguing to me but even more so because Robert made it all so human, not just textbook reporting, but a very human, real experience. I am glad to hear too that you other readers enjoyed the science parts of it. I would have loved to be in on the testing and experiments with him.

I was telling my best friend about this book last night and talking to her about perception and how I had wondered about his perception laying on his side, or his head tilted. She didnt quite get what I meant, we were in Walmart getting a few groceries each so I picked up a box of something LOL, and said, ok let me hold this upright, pretend its a tv or something and you tilt your head. She did, I said, now it still looks upright, right? And you have no problem reading the stuff on it, your brain still sees it in its correct position right? She said right. I said ok now hold your head up straight and just look at the box normally. She did, I said, now suppose tho when you lay on your side or tilt your head, because you are not at the same angle as the object anymore it looked sideways. She said huh? So instead of having her tilt her head, I tilted the box on its side. I said now, does it look upright, or can you read it the same as you did before? She said well no, its on its side and I want to tilt my head to read it. I said, why didnt you want to tilt your head back to read the box when you were the one tilted, looking at it sideways? Her eyes got big and she said THATS WEIRD! lol. (also told me I think too much rofl) I said, your brain knows how to orient the writing and the pictures when you are laying down watching tv or tilting your head, it expects it to remain upright I guess, but I think to Mike, to tilt his head or lay on his side, the brain doesnt recognise it or percieve it the same as we always have because it doesnt have that stored information. I said, I think he sees it like you did when I tilted the box, he sees them on their sides, which in a way is the real way or truth of what he is seeing. The way we see is how our brain tricks us to see so it makes sense to us. It learned to do that when we were young and I dont think Mike can ever make that distinction now. OK, so Robert this was my amature explanation and assumption lol but it was the one that triggered that question to you about it to begin with lol. I may be off base on my explanation to her but its kind of what I got might be happening from what you wrote of the other experiments. Anyway, guess who wants to read your book now LOL.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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shirley9440
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Re: Crashing through

Hi!

You were a teacher? I was an elementary music teacher. Yes, it is surprising that we didn't have injuries from some of the games we played. I loved teaching music, but got tired of disciplining.

It amazes me the Mike May lived to be an adult with all the things that he tried.

My son was telling me today of his former youth leader having a friend in high school who was blind and drove on the Lodge freeway at 4:00 a.m. with instructions from his fellow passengers.

I was never so adventuresome.

Have a great day.
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shirley9440
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Re: Crashing through

Hi, Vivico,

I am a retired elementary music teacher. My original degree was in speech therapy with a minor in psych. I worked in the public schools for one year as a therapist. Retired and raised four children. Then added music to my teaching certificate and taught elementary music for six years. I really would have liked to go back for a degree in psych, but I figured I was too old to do that big of a career change. One of my best friends is a counselor. We love discussing things together. We are doing our own book study and Crashing Through was one of our choices. We haven't had a chance to get together to discuss it yet. I have recommended this book to so many people.

Green light - your turn.
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vivico1
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Re: Crashing through


shirley9440 wrote:
Hi, Vivico,

I am a retired elementary music teacher. My original degree was in speech therapy with a minor in psych. I worked in the public schools for one year as a therapist. Retired and raised four children. Then added music to my teaching certificate and taught elementary music for six years. I really would have liked to go back for a degree in psych, but I figured I was too old to do that big of a career change. One of my best friends is a counselor. We love discussing things together. We are doing our own book study and Crashing Through was one of our choices. We haven't had a chance to get together to discuss it yet. I have recommended this book to so many people.

Green light - your turn.


Hey, when i was doing my post grad work, I thought, why are there so many older people in here??? Well the fact of the matter was, not only did they have the experience to be better students (maturity) but also I found out it helped them to do it then, when they had a spouse working. You see, I was working and doing my post grad and in psych when it got to doing our internship, we had to be available to other students (our first clients lol) 24/7. I had asked my professor, does this mean I wont have some set hours at all but if someone calls, I have to come to the school? He said absolutely, I said how do I work then to pay for this? I have to give them some schedule, even if its at a job I can work flex hours. He said, thats not my problem, you will be here when we call or you wont be here at graduation. One of the older women said, thats why i had to wait! We had to have one income we could count on while I did this! A lot of younger students didnt make it on that one point alone. This wasnt med school and it was students that the school could have had us assigned to be available certain hours but they wouldnt. Red light! Or in my case at school, SIMON SAYS lol :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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RobertKurson
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Re: Crashing through

Vivico, so interesting about Walmart! I think your explanation would resonate very deeply with Mike. There's no end to the strange-seeming phenomena he continues to experience. I still can't get over how, when people walk away from him, he sees them as literally shrinking as they go.


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vivico1
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Re: Crashing through


RobertKurson wrote:
Vivico, so interesting about Walmart! I think your explanation would resonate very deeply with Mike. There's no end to the strange-seeming phenomena he continues to experience. I still can't get over how, when people walk away from him, he sees them as literally shrinking as they go.


Robert, I did tell her about Mike seeing people as shrinking too! That one stuck with me too. Actually I think it would be very disturbing to me for people to appear shrinking, like that one picture of the woman with her eyes and mouth upside down seems disturbing to us, thats how I would feel too about people appearing to shrink!

About the pictures too, when you look at that picture upside down and it doesnt seem wrong, that is soooo weird! Our brain is a most interesting thing. It does what it needs to do to make the world make sense to us, that is, as this book shows, if it has the chance to make those connections when young and growing. I wonder how much work has been done with the mentally ill and their sight perception. Like those pictures, if too many things I saw were disturbing or didnt make sense, I could see all kinds of mental illness developing. After all some of the people talked about in the book (most I think) who did get their sight back and had such problems, did fall into depression. What if many of the people who are mentally ill in some way, had the same kind of misinterpretations in sight, but from birth, so they didnt know any different to tell anyone any different. Like maybe their connections didnt form right. Its like the Rorshach test, which isnt used by many anymore, but you look at the inkblots and tell what you see. Well the idea is to hear what stories in a persons life seems to bother them by what they say they see in pictures that really dont make any sense and also with enough in the data base for there to be a common answer for each with healthy people, do you answer the same. Ok, these arent good tests for what I am talking about but at the same time what if your emotional well being wasnt what was making the pictures look similar in the healthy people and not in people with problems, but what if SIGHT perception was making those with problems see the pictures different and therefore causing a different response and a difference in mental health (of some not all) because of what they have to deal with and understand? OK, this was all just weird stuff, I know LOL. But I still wonder now, if these difficulties Mike still has that comes from not having those neuro connections made when young and were able to, that there has to be something to be said about other people with sight whose connections werent all completed correctly or at all, you know it has to happen for some. Vivian
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Librarian
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Re: Crashing through

Vivico------Your ideas for sight perception of people with mental illness are an intriguing thought. I'm a retired elementary school librarian and I have worked with autistic children at school whether inclusioned or coming as a special class. I'm not an authority on this but I think a lot of their reactions are based on their sensory perceptions. I think that , whatever the cause is of autism, trhat the brains pathways function differently for them. I have seen extreme noise sensitivity in some autistic children. It took this book to make me realize that the brain and sight form connections when children are very young. Just as the way children learn to talk is amazing to me. They are learning a language very well at one and two years old!
And Shirley------ I remember Red Rover. It did seem a little rough. I played Red Light, Green Light all the time with one of my cousins. I remember white bobby socks. I also felt invincible in my PF Flyers! I wonder if Mike understood coming and going fashion trends. Did someone explain to him what colors would look good together and which ones would clash? Did he understand why some would not look good together?
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vivico1
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Re: Crashing through


Librarian wrote:
Vivico------Your ideas for sight perception of people with mental illness are an intriguing thought. I'm a retired elementary school librarian and I have worked with autistic children at school whether inclusioned or coming as a special class. I'm not an authority on this but I think a lot of their reactions are based on their sensory perceptions. I think that , whatever the cause is of autism, trhat the brains pathways function differently for them. I have seen extreme noise sensitivity in some autistic children. It took this book to make me realize that the brain and sight form connections when children are very young. Just as the way children learn to talk is amazing to me. They are learning a language very well at one and two years old!
And Shirley------ I remember Red Rover. It did seem a little rough. I played Red Light, Green Light all the time with one of my cousins. I remember white bobby socks. I also felt invincible in my PF Flyers! I wonder if Mike understood coming and going fashion trends. Did someone explain to him what colors would look good together and which ones would clash? Did he understand why some would not look good together?
Librarian


I think his wife did help him on fashion type things Librarian. Especially when describing people to him at that cafe. Not only what colors may go together but that this may be seen more on women than on men, etc. to help him determine if they were male or female at a distance. I think she helped him with a lot of that stuff.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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clothing


vivico1 wrote:

Librarian wrote:
I wonder if Mike understood coming and going fashion trends. Did someone explain to him what colors would look good together and which ones would clash? Did he understand why some would not look good together?
Librarian


I think his wife did help him on fashion type things Librarian. Especially when describing people to him at that cafe. Not only what colors may go together but that this may be seen more on women than on men, etc. to help him determine if they were male or female at a distance. I think she helped him with a lot of that stuff.




I do remember a comment near the end of the book about Mike having a neutral colored wardrobe so everything would mix and match. (or something to that effect) I remember noticing that because we have a family story about my father's wardrobe. He is colorblind and I don't think he had much fashion sense regardless but when my mother was in the hospital having a baby my dad brought my brother and I to visit. He had dressed us and himself and my mother was mortified and also laughing because nothing we had on even came close to matching. The kicker was that one of us had on plaid and stripes together! That may be fashionable for kids now but it wasn't then. And I don't care how color blind you are you still should be able to see patterns. He went through a long period of wearing plain white shirts to work after that.
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ilucas
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Re: Crashing through

Mike also seemed to have a memory of color from his early childhood. I was shocked when the bandages first came off his eyes and he immediately named the colors he was seeing. He even identified various shades of the same color such as the various shades of blonde in his wife's hair.
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vivico1
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Re: Crashing through


ilucas wrote:
Mike also seemed to have a memory of color from his early childhood. I was shocked when the bandages first came off his eyes and he immediately named the colors he was seeing. He even identified various shades of the same color such as the various shades of blonde in his wife's hair.


Yes I wondered about that too. He looked at her and said, that must be blue, at what she wasa wearing I believe. He did remember colors, tho some didn't quite seem to fit his idea of them, blonde and all its shades are one. People seemed to use blonde to describe a number of shades of hair, and we do.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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colors


vivico1 wrote:

ilucas wrote:
Mike also seemed to have a memory of color from his early childhood. I was shocked when the bandages first came off his eyes and he immediately named the colors he was seeing. He even identified various shades of the same color such as the various shades of blonde in his wife's hair.


Yes I wondered about that too. He looked at her and said, that must be blue, at what she wasa wearing I believe. He did remember colors, tho some didn't quite seem to fit his idea of them, blonde and all its shades are one. People seemed to use blonde to describe a number of shades of hair, and we do.




That surprised me as well. I agree that it seems like he would have some memory of colors. How else would he know them immediately? Color must be so hard, if not impossible, to describe to someone who has never seen it. What do you have to compare it to? And how do you really explain shades and tints of color? The words you would need all have to do with vision. It boggles my mind to think about it. :smileysurprised:
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vivico1
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Re: describing colors


Wrighty wrote:
>


That surprised me as well. I agree that it seems like he would have some memory of colors. How else would he know them immediately? Color must be so hard, if not impossible, to describe to someone who has never seen it. What do you have to compare it to? And how do you really explain shades and tints of color? The words you would need all have to do with vision. It boggles my mind to think about it. :smileysurprised:


When I was in college, I also worked for Southwestern Bell, in the phone centers we had then. We would set up service for people and try to sell them phones or pick the ones they wanted to just rent as normal, you know the trimlines, the princess phones, the old dial phones lol. Anyway, we had a color board of trimline phones for people to look at the different colors offered for all phones.

One day, a blind woman came in and ordered phone service and we were chatting and talking about her place and getting all the info together to get her service set up and without thinking, I did my autopilot thing of taking her over to the color board and asking her if she knew what color she wanted. LOL! :smileysurprised: She said, well I will need some help here I think lol. Part of me thought that since she was grown, even if she had never seen color, maybe she knew what she wanted by what others had told her was nice or by what she would know she had in her home. Heck, for all I know that might still be true but she was going to put me to the test anyway lol. She said can you describe the colors to me please? Ok, you first start to describe colors by colors of other things, like well yellow is like the sun, which is no good since she doesnt know what the sun looks like lol, so after a few of these lines I really had to think, how can i tell her about color in a way that would make sense maybe. So I thought, maybe if i compare them some way to a texture.

So I said, ok, I am going to do the best I can here but these are my ideas ok? She said sure that will work. I said ok, do you know what a cottonball feels like? She said yes. I said, that is what white is like, soft, nice, light. (and white actually lol) Then we had, tan and ivory and beige, oy! I was holding off on those. I said do you see anything, any light or movement? She said I see shadows of movement yes. I said what happens if i do this, and I covered her eyes with my hand. She said its very much darker than it was. I said ok, thats like black, its dark,the darkest color. Its plain but some people like it and it can go with anything but its not much of a pretty color for home, more what you would see a phone in an office look like. She said oh ok, not that then. I said, you know when you take a bath, how the farther you get down in the water, the nicer it feels and it feels a bit heavier too tho your body feels light and its very soothing there? She said well yeah why? I said ok, to me thats like blue, and it has many shades . Its a comforting color for me and it is the color of very deep water or the sky. She said cool! I said the deeper shades are like if I cover your eyes a little then a little more. She said ok I get that. I said red, I am trying to figure one for red but red is a color that elicits lots of feelings in people. Its considered a pretty color and also a sexy one, people are drawn to red, its an exciting color. But for a home accessory, unless you have something in that room with some red in it, it might look a little out of place, we dont actually rent or sell a lot of red ones. She said ok, sounds good but maybe for something else lol.

I said now there are three colors that I am having a real hard time trying to decide how to explain to you, and thats ivory, tan and beige, because they are really just different shades of one color. She said, there are a lot of colors in the world arent there and I noticed most people dont describe things the same when it comes to shades of colors, I dont understand how one color looks so many different ways. I said thats why I am having a hard time thinking how to describe them to you, but I got to get a basic one to start with, that they are all lighter shades of brown but how to describe brown. I said, have you ever heard people talk about earth tones? She said yeah all the time. I said do you have a sense of what they are? She said kinda, but you tell me. I really think I was being tested and taught LOL. I said well we say earth tones because they are different shades of a neutral color you find in nature. She said whats a neutral color? LOL oh man. I said well, a color that doesnt stand out as much as others and may be more common, so your eyes are drawn to other things around it instead. I said for example, a tree is a shade of brown, the trunk and branches are, but what you may be more drawn to, are the colors in the leaves, the greens, the golds, the reds and even whites! They catch your eye and its like the trunk is just there to hold those other colors for you. The brown of the trunk may be a nice color but it really supports the other colors you see. I said the ground is mostly brown and we dont tend to think about the color of the ground much unless its different, but we think about the colors on the ground. I said if you dropped something on the ground, the color of what you dropped would catch your eye faster so you could find it, because the browns in the ground are like just a backdrop, neutral to us, that the color of what you dropped would stand out, unless you dropped something the same color brown of course LOL.

It was great to see her expressions as I talked about shades and earthtones and neutrals! I said, so ivory, is like the background color that is the lightest, the one most like the shadows you see without my hand in front of your eyes, tan is a bit darker, like darkening with my hand a bit, and beige is a bit darker. Brown is the darkest. She said like black? I said well yes in a way, if we are talking about browns but its really a nicer color than black because black stands out like its out of place sometimes because it is so dark against everything else. I said brown, well people often like browns for what it brings out in other things.And its a warm color, makes you think of warms things but its not the color of fire or heat, we say its a warm color because it is rather comforting and maybe because it does support those other colors. I said people use a lot of earth tones when they want other things in their house, or on their body to show up more or be the more dominant things you see. She said, so thats why some of my friends told me to maybe go with earthtones? Because they dont stand out one way or the other or clash with what I may have at home? I said YES, exactly. People buy one of these three colors a lot in phones because we really dont want our phones to stand out that much when we have much nicer colors in furniture or carpet or walls or paintings! (This was back before cell phones and designer colors for everything from phones to toothpaste ok. LOL)

She said, how do you decide which of the three tho to go with? So then she told me what colors she was told she had in her house and we went from there. When we werent sure, she got an ivory, I told her that would work anywhere. I told her how cheery yellow was, and that in her kitchen that she told me about i thought it would be a really nice cheery color there (like sunshine) and she said, thats what I want the kitchen to feel like. All in all it started out a bit of a awkward experience but then when we got into it and I thought what colors meant to me more, I really enjoyed our talk and she got her 4 phones and she was quite pleased. As she was leaving, she put her hand on my arm and said, you know, you did quite well and smiled! LOL, I dont know if she was having some fun with me but it turned out fun and I think I did add one aspect to some of her notions of color by how her expressions changed and what she would say then. Ok, sorry for the long novel again, just be glad I am not in person huh lol, i can be very verbose but some experiences I just like to share in full,sorry!
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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RobertKurson
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Re: Crashing through

I agree that Mike's ability to NAME the colors - the moment the bandages came off - was astonishing. I think the scientists still aren't certain as to exactly why he was able to do that; I believe the prevailing opinion is that Mike retained some vague and unconscious memory of colors from his first three years of life.

I also found it interesting that colors provoked an expected emotional reaction in Mike. For example, he'd always been told that blue seemed cool to people and that red seemed hot. When he gained vision, the colors had that effect on Mike (though it's hard to say how much his expectation played into this).


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