Middle Chapters Discussion: Courbet and Manet

[Jessica]

Gustave Courbet seems, on paper, like he should have been a friend and ally of Manet. Yet the two men were very suspicious of one another and enjoyed little interaction or mutual esteem. What do you think the reasons for such reserve might have been?

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[Mariposa]

I am a bit uncertain about this one. Both Courbet and Manet had a hard time being accepted into the Salons. But Manet had it much harder. Courbet's paintings, although disturbing to traditionalists, were not as hard to understand as Manet's. Courbet may have seen Manet's paintings in somewhat the same light as the Selection Committee for the Salon.

It would probably be difficult for Manet to befriend Courbet since Courbet eventually became successful while Manet was still struggling. "Such a tournabout in fortune must have been, to refuses from the Salon such as Edouard Manet, an eviable but inspiring sight." (181)

It is clear that these artists, not just Manet and Courbet, although working during the same period and in the same location (Paris) were not all friends and often really did not know eachother. I thought it was interesting, for example, in a later chapter to learn that it is possible that Manet and Meissonier had never met prior to 1870. (290)

Lizabeth

[ross_king]

To be honest, I’m not exactly sure how to answer this either. I’m interested in the relationships and rivalries between and among painters. But the relationship (or lack thereof) between Courbet and Manet puzzles me. Courbet was good friends with both Monet (who painted him) and Whistler (who also painted him), and both Monet and Whistler were friends of Manet. But Manet and Courbet seem to have given one another a wide berth, and neither ever spoke well of the other’s work (I quote Courbet sniffily dismissing Manet's paintings when he saw them at the private exhibition in 1867). You’d think the pair of them, both regarded by the establishment as black sheep, would have had a natural affinity for one another, or at least been mutually sympathetic. But instead they seem to have treated one another very warily. Later in the book we see how Manet (unfairly) condemns the imprisoned Courbet, while Monet visits him in prison. However, it’s possible that Manet’s painting Le Bon Bock (The Good Beer), which I discuss in Chapter 36 (and which is reproduced as color plate 8A), is a kind of tribute to Courbet, who liked his beer and his pipe. (Does that seem plausible? I didn't actually put that argument in the book, because I wasn't sure I could substantiate it.)

Meissonier, of course, hated Courbet ... but that's another story. Still, you'd think if anything was going to make Manet sympathetic to Courbet, it would be Meissonier's vicious attacks on him.