Questions for Ross King

[Jessica]

Hi Ross,

As I clicked through some of the online galleries of these artists, I came across a few paintings with a Japanese theme. To name two: Monet's La Japonaise and Manet's Portrait of Emile Zola, which shows Olympia in the background, as well as what looks like a Sumo wrestler (and check out the screen behind Zola).

I know France was involved in the second Opium War in China in the late 1850s. To what extent did this affect the work of the Impressionists, or other artists in France (or their partner in the war, England) at the time?

Just curious! (I lived in Japan for a while...)

Jessica
Book Club Editor

[ross_king]

Hi Jessica

Interesting question. Japanese art was *extremely* important to Manet and the Impressionists. The influence of Japanese art on European painters began to exert itself after Japanese ports opened to Western trade in 1853. How Japanese art first came to Paris is interesting: a batch of prints by Hokusai (the guy who did the famous woodcut of a tsunami - called The Great Wave - as well as the views of Mount Fuji) was used as packing material in a crate of china that was shipped to Paris. A friend of Manet’s named Félix Bracquemond discovered the prints and began showing them around. It set off a craze for Japanese prints in Paris, and in fact all things Japanese. By the early 1860s a Japanese shop selling fans, costumes, and prints opened in the rue de Rivoli; it was called La Porte Chinoise. James McNeill Whistler, Dante Gabriel Rossetti (when he came over from England), Fantin-Latour, Manet - all used to visit the shop to buy costumes and prints, which they used in their works. Manet and his friends even began to be called "the Japanese of painting" because of their love of Japanese art.

You're right that it’s a sumo wrestler you can see in the background of Manet’s portrait of Zola: it’s a print by Kuniaki II of a sumo champion named Onaruto Nadacmon. Manet no doubt put it there because it indicated his inspiration in Japanese art ... but maybe he was also referring to how he had to "sumo wrestle" with his critics!

There’s an interesting detail in the portrait of Zola: if you look closely you may be able to see how the small reproduction of Olympia shows Victorine with her eyes turned towards Zola, as if she is acknowledging her support. Manet loved putting eccentric and comical little details like that into his paintings.

Hokusai’s The Great Wave (which Courbet and Whistler both copied) can be seen on the artchive.com, along with many of his other works:

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/H/hokusai/grt_wave.jpg.html

[Mariposa]

I am leaving on May 13th for a weeklong trip to Italy, specifically Florence with a little bit of time in Rome. If this is not too much trouble for you, what would be your top five don't miss list for Florence and... one for Rome? If you don't have the time to answer this, I understand...I am going on this trip for the art, not the shopping or the restaurants..(smile)

Lizabeth

[ross_king]

Florence in May should be wonderful. I’m happy to make some recommendations. It’s hard to limit things to five ... but here goes. These are the things I like to do, if possible, every time I’m there.

1) Climbing the dome of Santa Maria del Fiore. Of course I’d say that, wouldn’t I? But it’s an experience like no other building offers. You walk up the same stairs used by Brunelleschi and his workmen. Great views of Florence from the top. If you wait until mid-morning (say, between 10 and 11) the line-ups usually go down.

2) On the other side of the river is the charming little Brancacci Chapel in Santa Maria del Carmine, which has frescoes by Masaccio and Masolino. Especially impressive is Masaccio’s Tribute Money. Masaccio reached such a high level of skill at such a young age that it’s mind-boggling to think what else he might have done had he not died at the age of 27. And while we’re on the subject of Masaccio, see his Trinity in the church of Santa Maria Novella, the work on which he was helped by none other than Brunelleschi. It’s the first example of linear perspective in Renaissance art.

3) Everyone goes to the Uffizi ... but maybe not everyone pays as much attention as they should to Gentile da Fabriano’s Adoration of the Magi (which is in the 4th or 5th room). Painted around the same time that Masaccio was working (that is, the 1420s), it’s in a very different style. I don’t know which painter I like better: Gentile, who perfected an "older" style; or Masaccio, who forged a new one. I love all the animals in Gentile’s painting. I wonder if he influenced Edward Hicks?? Also, look for Titian’s Venus of Urbino, which inspired Manet to paint Olympia.

4) The Museo dell’ Opera del Duomo (behind the cathedral, i.e. at the east end). There are many things of interest here, including the original panels from of Ghiberti’s bronze “Doors of Paradise” and a pietà by Michelangelo that he intended to use for his own tomb. But one of the most amazing exhibits is Donatello’s wooden sculpture of St Mary Magdalen. It’s a real show-stopper. He studied victims of famine in order to sculpt her - and she’s completely unforgettable.

5) Visit the picture gallery on the second floor of the Spedale degli Innocenti. The facade of the Innocenti itself (Brunelleschi again) is a beautiful sight if you haven’t seen it, but upstairs is a painting by Michelangelo’s teacher Domenico Ghirlandaio, The Adoration of the Magi. It’s extremely poignant: if you look closely you can see that the children kneeling in front of the Christ Child are bleeding.

6) Okay, one more. For a great view of the dome and campanile while you have an espresso or a glass of Chianti, go to the roof terrace bar/restaurant (called La Terrazza, if I remember right) at the top of the Rinascente department store in the Piazza della Reppublica. You may even want to browse through the store before catching the escalator to the top.

I’ll have a think about Rome and try to narrow things down ....

By the way, a good guidebook is the “Blue Guide” to Florence by Alta Macadam.

[Mariposa]

I just want to thank you so much for your reply. I am going to use your recommendations as my guide.


Lizabeth

[ross_king]

Hi Lizabeth

Now, as for Rome ... You’ll be primed after the opening of the new Greek and Roman Galleries at the Met. Most of my suggestions will be from Renaissance Rome, the era in which I hang out ... but I’m always conscious that there’s so much more (Ancient Rome, and even Baroque and 18th-century Rome) that I don’t know much about. Anyway, some of these suggestions aren’t particularly original, but you don’t want to leave Rome without checking certain boxes!

1) Despite the long wait in line to get a ticket, and despite the heaving crowds inside and all the guards shushing people to keep them quite (and in the process making more noise than the tourists), the Sistine Chapel is *still* worth it. I recommend getting to the Vatican early, early. No matter how early you get there, the line will always be a mile long, but it does keep moving, and you’ll want to spend a full day inside the Vatican Museums. One of the most appealing sections of the vast complex is the octagonal sculpture gallery, where the Laocoön and the Apollo Belvedere sculptures are kept. Michelangelo was present when the Laocoön was unearthed in 1506, and you can see how it influenced his paintings in the Sistine Chapel a few years later. Also ... don’t miss the Raphael Stanze. They’re a 2-minute walk from the Sistine Chapel, so you can see how Michelangelo and Raphael were working in extremely close proximity.

2) A nice little oasis after the hectic world of the Vatican is the church of Santa Maria della Pace (near Piazza Navona). Raphael did the frescoes of the Sibyls in the little chapel on the right as you come through the door. Seeing them, you can understand why he was so incredibly popular - they’re really breathtaking and seem to glow in the semi-darkness of the church. For some reason I find them even more amazing than his larger frescoes in the Vatican. The church itself was built by Baccio Pontelli. (Who was he? A few years earlier he built the Sistine Chapel!) The cloister is by Donato Bramante. Last time I was there, they were preparing it for an Andy Warhol exhibition. Warhol and Bramante - quite a combination.

3) On the other side of Piazza Navona is the Pantheon. It looks remarkable from the outside - a giant concrete hemisphere - but it’s even more amazing inside.

4) Michelangelo’s Pietà in St Peter’s Basilica. For the full Michelangelo experience, you can go to the top of the dome - which Michelangelo built - for great views of Rome. (Unlike in Florence, there’s an elevator that’ll take you up, but you can also climb the stairs.) You look down on the roof of the Sistine Chapel.

5) A bit more peace after the bustle of St. Peter’s can be found at the church of Santa Maria in Trastevere. It sits in my favorite Roman piazza, which has a large fountain and - very important - some good open-air cafes. Inside the church are the best mosaics in Rome. If you feel energetic, you can climb up the hill to Bramante’s Tempietto of San Pietro in Montorio and the park on the Janiculum.

6) One final suggestion. If you have time, catch the train (from Tiburtina Station) to Tivoli (about a half-hour journey). The train trundles up a hill, through beautiful countryside, to where the ancient Romans and Renaissance princes had their summer homes. The grandest of them all, Hadrian’s Villa, isn’t in the best of shape (various of its bits and pieces have ended up in museums all of the world), but the Villa d’Este, built in the 16th century, is as impressive as ever after being restored 100 years ago. The fountains are amazing.

Buon viaggio!

[Mariposa]

Thank you again. I have very little time in Rome. It is actually bookending my Florence trip. So only if I turned into that cartoon character Roadrunner would I be able to do everything on your list, but...it is a good guide for me and I sincerely appreciate the time you took to write the post.

I am off to the Whitney this morning and if there is anything worth anything I will post my responses tonight. I am going to miss this forum when it closes. There is practically nothing I like more than discussing art.

Did I mention that I was reading Old Man Goya by Julia Blackburn? It is an interesting book about Goya's later years after he became deaf. I never knew he was deaf for so many years. I now look at the open, gaping, twisted mouths of some of the people he painted and they look perhaps the way someone who could not hear the words might see.

There was a very sad part at the end of the book when I learned that Goya's mistress who stayed with him for years was left with absolutely nothing after he died. (His wife had died many years earlier and made sure their son was the sole inheriter of his money and there was lots of it.) A new will could have been written and wasn't. Or it was and then destroyed to ensure that his mistress and her (their) child got nothing.

That led me to wonder about Meissonier's mistress who he married right before he died. Did she inherit anything after he passed? Different from the Goya situation, she was his legal wife when he passed away. Or was she also somehow cut out of the picture?

I know that most people don't feel too sympathetic to mistresses, but these women devoted considerable parts of their lives to these artists. In Goya's case, she got very litte financially from it when he was alive as almost all of his money was put into accounts for his son to spend. So she didn't do it for the money. I don't believe Meissonier's mistress did it for the money either. Please correct me if I am wrong in saying that marriages in those days were often contracts, arrangements and therefore sometimes (?)loveless. Mistresses were chosen by the man himself. In these two cases, these women appeared to me more than "mistresses," perhaps "second wives" would be a more appropriate term.

Lizabeth

[hasenbein]

Hi Ross,

Now that we're in the last week of this group, what are you working on for your next publication?

KathyH

[ross_king]

My next book will be coming out at the end of May. It’s a biography of Niccolò Machiavelli, author of The Prince. It’s part of the Eminent Lives series published by James Atlas Books and HarperCollins. In it I try to show that Machiavelli wasn’t as evil a character as many people have said over the years. In fact, he was quite a charming and endearing little character.

After Machiavelli ... who knows? I’m trying to put a few ideas together. And I’m always open to suggestions!

[ross_king]

---

dianearbus wrote:
That led me to wonder about Meissonier's mistress who he married right before he died. Did she inherit anything after he passed? Different from the Goya situation, she was his legal wife when he passed away. Or was she also somehow cut out of the picture?

Lizabeth

---

Elisa fared better than Goya's mistress. She actually did quite well out of the situation, since she was Meissonier's widow and therefore had claims on his estate. The unfortunate thing is that she didn't get along with his two children (they resented her having been their father's mistress for so many years). She also burned many of Meissonier's old letters and papers from the time when he was married to Emma, his first wife - so a lot of documents were lost. She seems to have been very devoted to the "great man." How many women would wait more than 20 years to be able to marry? She was 49 when she married him, which would have been very old for a bride in those days.

The hardships of being a mistress or a courtesan are illustrated by the fate of women like Madame Sabatier, Meissonier's friend who later fell on hard times. Many of the Parisian courtesans of the 19th century earned great wealth but ultimately died in poverty.

I read Old Man Goya a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it. Manet was a great admirer of Goya's paintings.

[marlohill]

I have never heard of Niccolo Machiavelli, author of "The Prince". Did he live a long time ago? I really like the movie and story to "The Little Prince" by Antoine De Saint-Exupery. I love Lerner and Lowe's music and lyrics in the movie. I listen to it almost every day! Antoine De Saint-Exupery was French and he was a pilot. He wrote "The Little Prince" and was going to write a sequel, but crashed his plane somewhere. I wish that you could write more about him.
Michelle

[ross_king]

Hi Michelle

I’m a fan of The Little Prince too. It was one of the first novels I ever read in French, since it seems to be (or was in my day) a set text for French language instruction. Saint-Exupery was in the news recently since, if I remember right, his airplane was found off the coast of France. I think you’re right that there’s a great story there. He certainly had a lot of adventures. The English Patient is partly based, I believe, on Saint-Exupery’s experiences flying (and crashing) in the Sahara Desert.

As for Machiavelli, he died in 1527. He lived in Florence and was a friend of Leonardo da Vinci. He was a diplomat and politician for most of his life, but he also wrote plays and The Prince, which offers advice on how to rule. People often associate him with the phrase "The end justifies the means," but he never actually wrote that in The Prince. However, it does sum up his political philosophy fairly well.

[hasenbein]

Hi Ross,

Since my degree is in musicology, I'm always interested in the different art disciplines, how they were/are affected by politics, popular opinion, "life" (like the Black Plague), etc. It will be interesting to read how you address the life of Machiavelli, what influenced him, and what he influenced. I read The Prince in college, but haven't really discussed him since.

KathyH

[Maudie]

"The Judgement of Paris" is so much more than a highly readable art history. It encompasses multiple dramatic themes and introduces many fascinating personalities which without question offer great material for visual presentation. It would be wonderful to see mid-century Paris, the cast of painters and their paintings woven into the historical events. Are there any plans to create such an undertaking, either as documentary or movie? I would be first in line to see it. Thank you for keeping the "Salon des Refusees" alive!

[JSWebster]

Ross,

I recently read Brunneleschi's Dome; in it you describe ("Chain of Stone") how the chestnut wood for the wooden chain was either soaked in water, or buried in ox dung. Am I correct in presuming that the effect of the ox dung was also to drive off the sap? I'm interested in learning more about this; I've read about dung used by tanners, but never before as a means to season wood. Could you point me to more source material on this?

Thank you,
Jim Webster
Berkeley, CA