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Re: Happy Hauntings
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11-03-2008 01:38 PM
StevePerk1 wrote:Happy Halloween to all. Hope all your fires burn and cauldrons bubble! Say hello to Banquo for me if you see him.
--Steve
Ha, Steve. No Banquo showed up, thankfully, but we had some cute little chickens and Snow Whites! I love the littlest ones the best.
Happy November!
~ConnieK
Re: OT (Off-Topic) Chatroom: "The Boar's Head Tavern"
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11-04-2008 09:03 AM
Re: OT (Off-Topic) Chatroom: "The Boar's Head Tavern"
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11-04-2008 09:48 AM
We are getting good coverage of your election on UK TV and I saw all the queues at your polling stations. I hope that the weather keeps fine and that older folks got their postal votes set up. I will be up all night biting my nails with y'all!
ConnieK wrote:To our American members--
How were the lines at your voting place today?
~ConnieK
Re: OT (Off-Topic) Chatroom: "The Boar's Head Tavern"
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11-04-2008 09:49 AM
I mailed my ballot in a couple of weeks ago.
ConnieK wrote:To our American members--
How were the lines at your voting place today?
~ConnieK
Re: OT (Off-Topic) Chatroom: "The Boar's Head Tavern" -- U.S. Election
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11-04-2008 09:58 AM
We live in a rural voting area at the edge of a small town in New York State. I went to vote around 9 a.m., hoping to miss the peak times of 6-8; noon; and after 5. The wait here at mid-morning was about 20 minutes--not bad. The atmosphere was festive. People were clearly ready, eager, and excited to cast their votes. Good to see young voters there, too. Wonderful to see a good turnout!
Voting gives you a good feeling!
Don't forget to vote!!!
~ConnieK
Re: OT (Off-Topic) Chatroom: "The Boar's Head Tavern" - U.S. Election
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11-04-2008 10:02 AM - edited 11-04-2008 10:02 AM
Choisya wrote:We are getting good coverage of your election on UK TV and I saw all the queues at your polling stations. I hope that the weather keeps fine and that older folks got their postal votes set up. I will be up all night biting my nails with y'all!
Thanks for your support, Choisya! This election cycle seems to have gone on forever here (almost 2 years of campaign news). It feels good to finally have our say in it all (again, after the primaries).
~ConnieK
Re: OT (Off-Topic) Chatroom: "The Boar's Head Tavern" - U.S. Election
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11-04-2008 04:42 PM
World's Greatest Writers
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11-08-2008 03:26 PM
Shakespeare was arguably the greatest writer in the English language. (I say "arguably" only to be polite. We all know it's not arguable...
) Who would you say are the pinnacles of other languages? Here are some of my suggestions, which, in this case, are extremely arguable!
French: Victor Hugo
Russian: Leo Tolstoy (I expect lots of critques on that one!)
Spanish: Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
German: Johann Wolfgang Göthe
What are your picks? (And, yes, if you do want to argue with my Shakespeare assertion, I'd love to hear your alternative.)
--Steve
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-09-2008 03:49 AM
Are you rating them in the use of language or as tellers of stories Steve?
StevePerk1 wrote:Shakespeare was arguably the greatest writer in the English language. (I say "arguably" only to be polite. We all know it's not arguable...
) Who would you say are the pinnacles of other languages? Here are some of my suggestions, which, in this case, are extremely arguable!
French: Victor Hugo
Russian: Leo Tolstoy (I expect lots of critques on that one!)
Spanish: Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
German: Johann Wolfgang Göthe
What are your picks? (And, yes, if you do want to argue with my Shakespeare assertion, I'd love to hear your alternative.)
--Steve
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-09-2008 10:28 AM
I guess I didn't have any real criteria in mind, but I could see how you could get distinctly different answers depending on how you approached it. I will rephrase it this way: for Language X, it there a package deal - someone who exceeds all others in both beauty and artistry in the language itself, and who also manages to spin a fascinating story? If there is no clear stand-out, I would opt for beauty of language, because a beautiful rendering of the language can salvage a banal story, but a great story suffers significantly from a lack of linguistic artistry.
How's that?
Choisya wrote:
Are you rating them in the use of language or as tellers of stories Steve?
StevePerk1 wrote:Shakespeare was arguably the greatest writer in the English language. (I say "arguably" only to be polite. We all know it's not arguable... ) Who would you say are the pinnacles of other languages? Here are some of my suggestions, which, in this case, are extremely arguable!
French: Victor Hugo
Russian: Leo Tolstoy (I expect lots of critques on that one!)
Spanish: Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
German: Johann Wolfgang Göthe
What are your picks? (And, yes, if you do want to argue with my Shakespeare assertion, I'd love to hear your alternative.)
--Steve
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-09-2008 10:30 PM
Grand Dame of the Land of Oz, Duchess of Fantasia, in the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia; also, Poet Laureate of the Kingdom of Wordsmithonia
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-13-2008 04:23 PM
StevePerk1 wrote:Shakespeare was arguably the greatest writer in the English language. (I say "arguably" only to be polite. We all know it's not arguable...
) Who would you say are the pinnacles of other languages? Here are some of my suggestions, which, in this case, are extremely arguable!
French: Victor Hugo
Russian: Leo Tolstoy (I expect lots of critques on that one!)
Spanish: Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
German: Johann Wolfgang Göthe
What are your picks? (And, yes, if you do want to argue with my Shakespeare assertion, I'd love to hear your alternative.)
--Steve
Italian: Dante Alighieri?
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-13-2008 06:12 PM
Watch for him in 2009 at Epics, Etc.
Bolognaking wrote:Italian: Dante Alighieri?
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-18-2008 02:40 AM
Steve: I'm glad you said Shakespeare is arguably the greatest writer ever. Many critics and writers have felt that Milton is the greatest. Milton had a tremendous impact on the world even though he only wrote for "the fit though few." He aided Oliver Cromwell in deposing King Charles which brought about a domino effect in Europe's disempowerment of royalty. I mentioned on a different post I wrote about a professor I had saying;" Shakespeare knew everything. Milton was the last person to know everything. Because he'd read everything." Milton influenced every noted Romantic poet and William Blake, the great visionary, believed Milton was greater than Shakespeare. Blake believed that Milton was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, as well. Certainly, Milton was the most educated man who ever lived and he had a total photographic memory. T.S. Eliot and other critics who disagreed with Milton's spiritual beliefs said he had a tremendous poetic ability. Milton brought poetic change with his introduction of the ode, elegy ( read
Lycidas, an elegy, and you'll become a Milton fan ) and the masque, for example from other languages.
Ooops! Forgot to mention Cromwell made Milton an Ambassador of foreign tongues in his new government because it is estimated that Milton could speak and write about 15 languages. Few people
realize that Milton was not only or arguably the greatest poet but he was the best and most influential prose writer. His polemics such as the towering "Aereopagitica" allowed him to usher in 17th century ideas like free will, freedom of speech, the option of divorce, the necessity for church and government to
ALWAYS be separate, the necessity for popular culture, the corruption of clergymen, objections to hatred
and pornography. He has influenced the U.S. Constitution and Jefferson and Adams admired Milton and
turned the evil in the supreme epic"Paradise Lost" at England. In the 18th century, almost all writers and readers saw Milton's Satan as a tragic, all-too-human character. In PL we see the plot and ideas of books
such as Moby Dick and 1984, for example, where the enemy is insurmountable. Byron said PL's "Satan
led a noble revolt against political tyranny." Milton's Satan is the most complex and widely discussed character amongst critics. He fights a foe who is much stronger showing courage, and when he meets his son and daughter at the gates of hell he does not sacrifice them but bonds with them. Furthermore,
in Pandemonium ( a Milton coinage ) there are four demons who express different views on how to wage war. In heaven, Milton's God does not tolerate free thinking but is dogmatic. Remember Blake's famous
line "Milton was a true poet and of the devil's party without knowing it." Milton knew that we have conflicting feelings of good and evil and he expressed every possible idea about them WHILE referring to every literary work that went before him in many languages. PL is 12 books and Milton had to remember quotes
from everywhere and make his references. He was old and totally blind when he dictated PL to his daughter. He had no books or library to look things up! PL is so strange such as Eve emerging as a much
stronger character than Adam at the end. But, there are references Milton makes about strange beings living on other worlds or planets ( I believe there were four ). Milton had travelled to Italy before and knew Gallileo and it is intriguing to know what they talked about. PL is still being sorted out by critics and many
perceptive readers skip Milton because they think he was religious. But, Milton has had a trendous impact
on the way Westerners think and feel. His influence can't be overestimated. So, he's my choice for the
greatest writer. -Greg Note: Every major English speaking university offers courses only about Milton and other courses only about Shakespeare - that speaks volumes.
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-18-2008 09:52 AM
Thanks Greg for that great assessment of Milton. I certain agree that his political achievements had great impact. You may like to look up the discussion that some folks here had earlier this year of Paradise Lost in the Epics Book Club, ably led by our well qualified Reader-Moderator, Laurel.
GregBauder wrote:Steve: I'm glad you said Shakespeare is arguably the greatest writer ever. Many critics and writers have felt that Milton is the greatest. Milton had a tremendous impact on the world even though he only wrote for "the fit though few." He aided Oliver Cromwell in deposing King Charles which brought about a domino effect in Europe's disempowerment of royalty. I mentioned on a different post I wrote about a professor I had saying;" Shakespeare knew everything. Milton was the last person to know everything. Because he'd read everything." Milton influenced every noted Romantic poet and William Blake, the great visionary, believed Milton was greater than Shakespeare. Blake believed that Milton was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, as well. Certainly, Milton was the most educated man who ever lived and he had a total photographic memory. T.S. Eliot and other critics who disagreed with Milton's spiritual beliefs said he had a tremendous poetic ability. Milton brought poetic change with his introduction of the ode, elegy ( read
Lycidas, an elegy, and you'll become a Milton fan ) and the masque, for example from other languages.
Ooops! Forgot to mention Cromwell made Milton an Ambassador of foreign tongues in his new government because it is estimated that Milton could speak and write about 15 languages. Few people
realize that Milton was not only or arguably the greatest poet but he was the best and most influential prose writer. His polemics such as the towering "Aereopagitica" allowed him to usher in 17th century ideas like free will, freedom of speech, the option of divorce, the necessity for church and government to
ALWAYS be separate, the necessity for popular culture, the corruption of clergymen, objections to hatred
and pornography. He has influenced the U.S. Constitution and Jefferson and Adams admired Milton and
turned the evil in the supreme epic"Paradise Lost" at England. In the 18th century, almost all writers and readers saw Milton's Satan as a tragic, all-too-human character. In PL we see the plot and ideas of books
such as Moby Dick and 1984, for example, where the enemy is insurmountable. Byron said PL's "Satan
led a noble revolt against political tyranny." Milton's Satan is the most complex and widely discussed character amongst critics. He fights a foe who is much stronger showing courage, and when he meets his son and daughter at the gates of hell he does not sacrifice them but bonds with them. Furthermore,
in Pandemonium ( a Milton coinage ) there are four demons who express different views on how to wage war. In heaven, Milton's God does not tolerate free thinking but is dogmatic. Remember Blake's famous
line "Milton was a true poet and of the devil's party without knowing it." Milton knew that we have conflicting feelings of good and evil and he expressed every possible idea about them WHILE referring to every literary work that went before him in many languages. PL is 12 books and Milton had to remember quotes
from everywhere and make his references. He was old and totally blind when he dictated PL to his daughter. He had no books or library to look things up! PL is so strange such as Eve emerging as a much
stronger character than Adam at the end. But, there are references Milton makes about strange beings living on other worlds or planets ( I believe there were four ). Milton had travelled to Italy before and knew Gallileo and it is intriguing to know what they talked about. PL is still being sorted out by critics and many
perceptive readers skip Milton because they think he was religious. But, Milton has had a trendous impact
on the way Westerners think and feel. His influence can't be overestimated. So, he's my choice for the
greatest writer. -Greg Note: Every major English speaking university offers courses only about Milton and other courses only about Shakespeare - that speaks volumes.
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-19-2008 02:15 AM
I just tried to post on the Epic Site about Milton's Paradise Lost. I couldn't post though but some critics' comments about Book 6 in PL made me angry. He said The War In Heaven had Milton treating us like morons. I disagree vehemently and I am hoping others here might respond to what I believe. First of all, he and others said the mountains were silly and could be dodged by the angels or devils. I believe there are several reasons for the tossing of mountains. First, The Bible says if you have faith as a mustard seed you can move mountains and it also says demons believe in God and tremble at the thought. So, from a
Biblical view this makes sense. As for the dodging it is completely understandable that Milton wouldn't think of this since he was old and blind. T.S. Eliot said, astutely, that the blind Milton relied more on sound than sight in the war in Heaven. Of course there is Milton's epic comparison with The Iliad where Athena
throws a boulder at Ares and knocks him down. But, the war in Heaven also has Satan inventing gunpowder and cannons "the deep-throated engines" showing his resourcefulness. He may have gained an upper hand early against God's angels but Milton obviously knew battles can often go back and forth.
Satan puts up a heroic fight although is a little hubristic when he jests about the injured angels. As for the
temporary injuries these beings receive they are not as ridiculous as one would think: consider Star Wars
or Superman or Harry Potter where some of the characters are very seriously hurt or wounded yet bounce right back. No one says these films and books treat us like morons. So these asinine critics need to get off Milton's back and accept the fact that most critics are humbled in "the presence of a great mind",
namely Milton's. I know I've been posting a lot here but I feel very strongly about this. -Greg
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-19-2008 12:23 PM
Try posting there now, Greg.
GregBauder wrote:I just tried to post on the Epic Site about Milton's Paradise Lost. I couldn't post though but some critics' comments about Book 6 in PL made me angry.
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-19-2008 09:04 PM - edited 11-19-2008 09:06 PM
GregBauder wrote:
I just tried to post on the Epic Site about Milton's Paradise Lost.
Greg--Members of the clubs don't always read posts at other clubs, so you'd be better off trying to post there again than putting your response to an Epics post over here. Let me know if you're unsuccessful, though, and I'll see if I can move your post over there for you. I'd move it now, but I'm not sure in which thread you'd want it to appear.
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-20-2008 05:00 AM
Also, it isn't a current discussion on the Epics site - we did it earlier in the year. It is now archived. I thought Greg might like to read what was posted but there will not be any feedback. Laurel, our Reader-Moderator and a D.Litt, was particularly helpful during this discussion and her comments and research might be useful too. Perhaps you could give Greg a link to the archived site Connie?
ConnieK wrote:
GregBauder wrote:
I just tried to post on the Epic Site about Milton's Paradise Lost.
Greg--Members of the clubs don't always read posts at other clubs, so you'd be better off trying to post there again than putting your response to an Epics post over here. Let me know if you're unsuccessful, though, and I'll see if I can move your post over there for you. I'd move it now, but I'm not sure in which thread you'd want it to appear.
Message Edited by ConnieK on 11-19-2008 09:06 PM
Re: World's Greatest Writers
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11-20-2008 09:51 AM
Choisya wrote:Also, it isn't a current discussion on the Epics site - we did it earlier in the year. It is now archived. I thought Greg might like to read what was posted but there will not be any feedback. Laurel, our Reader-Moderator and a D.Litt, was particularly helpful during this discussion and her comments and research might be useful too. Perhaps you could give Greg a link to the archived site Connie?
ConnieK wrote:
GregBauder wrote:
I just tried to post on the Epic Site about Milton's Paradise Lost.
Greg--Members of the clubs don't always read posts at other clubs, so you'd be better off trying to post there again than putting your response to an Epics post over here. Let me know if you're unsuccessful, though, and I'll see if I can move your post over there for you. I'd move it now, but I'm not sure in which thread you'd want it to appear.
Message Edited by ConnieK on 11-19-2008 09:06 PM
But he's responding to a post he read over there, Choisya. Can he or you point me to the thread/post where the post he made here should go?