The Tempest (spoilers ok)

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Let's talk about The Tempest in this thread.  We will try the approach again this month of having one thread for the entire play so that people may remark on any portion they choose. 

If you are new to this play and would like to discuss it act by act as you read, please feel free to begin threads for that purpose (or PM me to do it, and I will gladly do so!).

[friery]

Here's an excerpt from a message I posted when we did The Tempest back in 2007.  IMHO, Shakespeare wrote a very unlikable main character in Prospero.  Why should we care about that character?

Prospero was one of the most unsympathetic main characters I've yet experienced in Shakespeare's plays.

He creates a storm that scares the dickens out of the bad guys--and also nearly kills a bunch of good guys, such as the Boatswain.

He scares his daughter with the storm, and she fears for the loss of innocent lives.

He casually suggests to his daughter that he's not really sure of her paternity. ("She [Miranda's mother] said thou wast my daughter." I.2.57.)

He failed to govern the dukedom because he was more interested in his books. ("volumes that I prize above my dukedom." I.2.68.)

He studied magic, which I suppose was suspect in itself.

As he's telling Miranda his tale of how he lost his dukedom, he impatiently keeps on asking her whether she's listening.

He threatens to hate Miranda if she says one more word in defense of Ferdinand. (I.2.78.)

He's self-pitying. ("Me, poor man, my library /was dukedom large enough." I.2.109-110.)

He's unpleasant to Ariel, who appears to be a very faithful servant. ("Thou liest, malignant thing" I.2.258.) And he nags Ariel. And threatens to put him back in his tree-prison.

He's just plain nasty to Caliban, who's actually a sympathetic character. Curses and threats galore.

And he wins back his dukedom, with another dose of self-pity. ("Every third thought shall be my grave." V.1.311.)

[Benedict3]

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friery wrote:

Here's an excerpt from a message I posted when we did The Tempest back in 2007.  IMHO, Shakespeare wrote a very unlikable main character in Prospero.  Why should we care about that character?

Prospero was one of the most unsympathetic main characters I've yet experienced in Shakespeare's plays

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The storm at the beginning, is unsympathetic, but it is required for Prospero to learn the degree that the Intellect of the passengers on the boat can be blinded by the Nature of the individuals.  Fear is part of Nature, not Intellect.  He places so much fear in the passengers that none of them are able to utilize their logic or Intellect.  He knows, right in the first seen, that when each person is placed in the right environment he can manipulate their Natures directly without them utilizing their Intellect and logic.  I don’t see the message in this first seen as being cruel so much as showing us that we can all be placed into situations were we will act without logic.

Ways that the intellect of the individuals are blinded other than the first seen of the Tempest:

-The intellect of the drunks can be blinded by exposing the drunks to booze.
-The Intellect of the young adults can be blinded by placing attractive opposite sex in front of them. 
-The Intellect of the greedy people can be blinded by placing things of wealth in front of them.
-The Intellect of power hungry people can be blinded by putting the opportunity to acquire power in front of them.

The lesson is that we can all become blind to things around us through manipulation.  Even Prospero can become blind to situations happening around him, as pointed out in the beginning when he was so absorbed in reading philosophy and physics that he did not see his brother taking over the kingdom.

[Laurel]

I love this play! This time through, coming fresh from reading Virgil and Dante, I especially noticed the school-boy references to Aeneas and "Widow Dido." The Aeneid is the back-story for the founding of Rome, and The Tempest is all about the varieties of government and being governed.

[Benedict3]

The individuals intellect and logic is blinded to situations through manipulations and distractions.  It is the distractions that make the individuals focus in places other than what Prospero doesn’t want them to focus.

In the opening seen Shakespeare tells us that the play is all about distraction.  The boatswain is distracted by the Royalty during the storm.  The Royalty ordering him to do his job paradoxically prevented him from doing his job.  The Boatswain didn’t want to do a good job because he was being yelled at, he wanted to do a good job in order to save his own life.

Each of the people that I described in my earlier post can be looked at from this point of view.  They are blind to many of life’s events because Prospero puts things in front of them that their Nature gravitates to (distracts them) thereby placing their attention, focus and Intellect on these things and not the topic that Prospero wants them to be blind to.

[friery]

I'm charmed by Act 1, Scene 1 of The Tempest.

First, all the nautical stuff sounds and feels authentic.  I think Shakespeare nailed the atmosphere of a ship in peril on the high seas.  (How did he know that you have to take in the topsail during a storm?)  He also seemed to have gotten the sailors' language right.  This, from an author who, as far as we know, never went anywhere during his life.

Also, the stagecraft is far beyond that in most of Shakespeare's plays.  Other plays (Lear and Macbeth, for example), have storms.  But this play starts in a storm, and also has the shipboard setting.  And the mariners enter mid-scene--wet!  (I have this vision of the stage manager, who I suppose may have been WS, pouring buckets of water over their heads just before they went on stage.)

I can't remember another scene in Shakespeare that takes place at sea.  Hamlet took an ocean journey, but offstage.  And Cleopatra's barge doesn't count.

The entire scene is written in prose, which I imagine adds to the sense of turbulence and disorder.

And, I'd never noticed before--the second word in The Tempest (in the initial stage directions) is "tempestuous."  (And the last word of the scene is "death.")

[ConnieAnnKirk]

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friery wrote:

I'm charmed by Act 1, Scene 1 of The Tempest.

First, all the nautical stuff sounds and feels authentic.  I think Shakespeare nailed the atmosphere of a ship in peril on the high seas.  (How did he know that you have to take in the topsail during a storm?)  He also seemed to have gotten the sailors' language right.  This, from an author who, as far as we know, never went anywhere during his life.

Also, the stagecraft is far beyond that in most of Shakespeare's plays.  Other plays (Lear and Macbeth, for example), have storms.  But this play starts in a storm, and also has the shipboard setting.  And the mariners enter mid-scene--wet!  (I have this vision of the stage manager, who I suppose may have been WS, pouring buckets of water over their heads just before they went on stage.)

I can't remember another scene in Shakespeare that takes place at sea.  Hamlet took an ocean journey, but offstage.  And Cleopatra's barge doesn't count.

The entire scene is written in prose, which I imagine adds to the sense of turbulence and disorder.

And, I'd never noticed before--the second word in The Tempest (in the initial stage directions) is "tempestuous."  (And the last word of the scene is "death.")

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I agree, friery!  I'd actually forgotten that the play opens in prose.  That's giving me a lot to think about at the moment!  And I agree that it must have been something to see this in WS's time--how they made that ship and storm seem real.

Has anyone seen The Tempest staged at today's Globe Theater?

[Benedict3]

The island representing many aspects of the individual is somewhat like Caesar’s Senate representing many of the aspects of the individual. In the play Caesar, Caesar embodies the state of Rome, and Rome embodies the state of Caesar. Or, one can be used to describe the other and visa versa. In the play Caesar, Shakespeare describes the human aspects of logic, ambition, poetry, manipulation, each embodied by Senators, and all in equal proportions within Caesar. Within the Tempest he subdivides the human aspects differently. Prospero represents the consciousness, Ariel represents meditation, and Caliban represents the carnal vises. Ariel is as fast as the wings of meditation, with a thought by Prospero she can be transported to another place, and Caliban is very earthy, animalistic, he likes booze, and craves sex. We all have these aspects within us, just as we have all of the dominant characteristics of the Senators within Caesar.

Was it bad for Caliban to lust after Prospero’s daughter? No, men like women. But the carnal desires can place someone in a hellish situation without the regulating force of the consciousness. Prospero being the consciousness of the Island must restrain the carnal aspects of Caliban.

Prospero could be happy reading his philosophy and remaining in a contemplative state. The island through the play goes through life phases. For example:

Before Prospero arrives at the island, Ariel is on the island but not active, just as before our prefrontal lobe is developed between the ages of 18 and 25, those parts of our brain are there but not active. It is Prospero’s Intellect “executive” that sets Ariel free.

Also during this time, we become sexual. And it is our self regulating and consciousness that must control these urges. Caliban is introduced to Maranda for the first time, and the intellect of the Island must prevent, societies version of bad things from happening. Because we are social creatures, societies bad things are our Intellects bad things. Prospero, the intellect must stop Caliban from raping Maranda, and possibly use force to do so.
If Caliban had his way he would do many things without fear, “Conscience does make cowards of us all”

[ConnieAnnKirk]

I still find myself fascinated by the prose in the opening of this play.  I'm trying to think if there's prose in another play?  There must be, yes?

And it's a good point that the prose may point to the chaos of the scene--a boat at sea in a tempest, but might it also have some other interpretative significance?

[Laurel]

The lower classes often speak in prose, I think. Even Gonzolo speaks prose during the storm. Is it perhaps because his interruption, which mars the labour of the sailors, also mars the verse? As soon as Miranda enters, the poetry begins.

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ConnieK wrote:

I still find myself fascinated by the prose in the opening of this play.  I'm trying to think if there's prose in another play?  There must be, yes?

And it's a good point that the prose may point to the chaos of the scene--a boat at sea in a tempest, but might it also have some other interpretative significance?

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[Benedict3]

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Laurel wrote:
The lower classes often speak in prose, I think. Even Gonzolo speaks prose during the storm. Is it perhaps because his interruption, which mars the labour of the sailors, also mars the verse? As soon as Miranda enters, the poetry begins.

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I wish I were more literate pertaining to styles of writing, and enjoying the ‘prose’.  Although I do not have a comment on the lower classes speaking prose, I do have an opinion on designating Gonzalo as being within the lower classes.

Gonzalo is within a higher class, from societies perspective as well as Shakespeare’s and Prospero’s.  From societies point of view he is in a high class because he is wealthy.  In Prospero’s point of view he is in a high class because he has a heart and made sure that Prospero at least had his study books with him as he was being banished from his own state.  And Shakespeare puts him in the highest class of people.  As nature grows, it grows in such a way as to allow future generations to self perpetuate.  All of Nature is made up of things that function well simply because of their components.  The nature of man allowing the rise of an intellect and self reflection presents itself in such a way through Gonzalo as to allow natural nature to present itself in and through the human intellect such as Gonzalo’s.

[Laurel]

Sorry I didn't make that clear. I named Gonzolo and talked about him because he is not in the genralization of the first sentece. Gonzolo is not lower class.

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Benedict3 wrote:

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Laurel wrote:
The lower classes often speak in prose, I think. Even Gonzolo speaks prose during the storm. Is it perhaps because his interruption, which mars the labour of the sailors, also mars the verse? As soon as Miranda enters, the poetry begins.

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I wish I were more literate pertaining to styles of writing, and enjoying the ‘prose’.  Although I do not have a comment on the lower classes speaking prose, I do have an opinion on designating Gonzalo as being within the lower classes.

Gonzalo is within a higher class, from societies perspective as well as Shakespeare’s and Prospero’s.  From societies point of view he is in a high class because he is wealthy.  In Prospero’s point of view he is in a high class because he has a heart and made sure that Prospero at least had his study books with him as he was being banished from his own state.  And Shakespeare puts him in the highest class of people.  As nature grows, it grows in such a way as to allow future generations to self perpetuate.  All of Nature is made up of things that function well simply because of their components.  The nature of man allowing the rise of an intellect and self reflection presents itself in such a way through Gonzalo as to allow natural nature to present itself in and through the human intellect such as Gonzalo’s.

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[ConnieAnnKirk]

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Laurel wrote:

The lower classes often speak in prose, I think.

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Ah, yes.  I'd forgotten that convention.  Thanks!

[ConnieAnnKirk]

I was just reading in the introduction to the B&N edition of The Tempest this morning that the role of Prospero is one many lifelong actors look forward to playing as they get older, much as they look forward to playing Lear later in life.

What do you think of this?  What about this character might draw a mature actor to play him?

[Benedict3]

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ConnieK wrote:

I was just reading in the introduction to the B&N edition of The Tempest this morning that the role of Prospero is one many lifelong actors look forward to playing as they get older, much as they look forward to playing Lear later in life.

What do you think of this?  What about this character might draw a mature actor to play him?

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Prospero:

Prospero like Caesar, Hamlet and King Lear are a representation of the environment within which they live.  The human internal struggle, or workings of the individual can be used to describe the society that surrounds them, and the society and Nature that surrounds them can be used to describe the individual’s human internal mental workings.  There is a paradoxical shift in the way that the human element is analyzed within each of these plays.  Caesar is the easiest to see the mirror reflection of the Caesars internal workings and the Senate.  However, the mirror is still quite present within the others and their surroundings, including Prospero.

Caesar is the ‘Will’ of the society.  Because Caesars ‘Will’ is that of the State, “It is in my ‘Will”, I will not come today, that is enough to please the Senate”.  And in the Tempest, Prospero is the ‘intellect’ of the Island, (which is close to being the ‘Will’ but a little different, it would be redundant to have two plays describing the same human aspect within the main character).

Prospero, being an intellectual, shown by his love of his books becomes the ‘intellect’ of the Island when stranded there.  Prospero is a human with human limitations albeit and intellectual while his magic cloak is off, but when his magic cloak is on he is the intellect of the Island.  As though the Island is a being itself comprised of all the components of the human aspects.  The intellect of the Island, Prospero, controls the more animalistic aspects of the Island, Caliban.  Arial is also controlled by Prospero, but I do not know exactly what she represents.  Meditation?  She is as fast as though.  Will?  She cajoles each person on the Island to do what the intellect(Prospero) requires.  She is freed at the end of the play by Prospero, to me representing a Buddhist perspective of Zen. Which is Gonzalo’s description.  The Islands Nature is allowed to prosper on it’s own without the controlling entity of a ruler, or with respect to the individual, the controlling entity of the intellect.

So who would like to play the part of Prospero?  There are three presentations:

1. Without the Cloak on Prospero is an Intellectual who loves his daughter and will do anything to ensure her happiness.  So Prospero is a loving intellectual.
2. With the cloak on Prospero is the Intellect of the Island; controlling each other human aspect of the Island.  He is a controlling figure making the Island do what he wants it to do, that being events leading up to his daughters happiness.  So Prospero is an intellect used to contrive the happiness of his daughter.
3. Prospero’s last line of the play being directed to the individuals of the audience.  In this last line the actor playing Prospero is allowing Shakespeare to talk to the audience through him.

[friery]

Jame Joyce echoes Shakespeare's "Full fathom five" song in the great novel Ulysses, as Stephen Dedalus ponders on the beach:

Five fathoms out there. Full fathom five thy father lies. At one he said. Found drowned. High water at Dublin bar. Driving before it a loose drift of rubble, fanshoals of fishes, silly shells. A corpse rising saltwhite from the undertow, bobbing landward, a pace a pace a porpoise. There he is. Hook it quick. Sunk though he be beneath the watery floor. We have him. Easy now.

And, as in The Tempest, it's about a father.

[ConnieAnnKirk]

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friery wrote:

Jame Joyce echoes Shakespeare's "Full fathom five" song in the great novel Ulysses, as Stephen Dedalus ponders on the beach:

Five fathoms out there. Full fathom five thy father lies. At one he said. Found drowned. High water at Dublin bar. Driving before it a loose drift of rubble, fanshoals of fishes, silly shells. A corpse rising saltwhite from the undertow, bobbing landward, a pace a pace a porpoise. There he is. Hook it quick. Sunk though he be beneath the watery floor. We have him. Easy now.

And, as in The Tempest, it's about a father.

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Oh, thanks for posting this lovely passage, friery.  Joyce's stuff is so, so great, and I haven't read Ulysses in way too long. 

I wonder why the father figure is so often portrayed under the water like this?  Isn't the sea usually a feminine figure in literature and lore?  I'm thinking of Sylvia Plath's Ariel poems, too, and "Daddy."  Or is everyone after him just taking this cue from Shakespeare?  (Plath did).

What does anybody think?

[friery]

ConnieK--thanks for the nice comment.

Joyce did use water as a feminine symbol, and in a glorious way.  In Finnegans Wake, the River Liffey in Dublin is depicted as a female character, Anna Livia Plurabelle.  Joyce's depiction of the death of ALP as an old woman is incredibly moving--he shows it as the river meeting and mingling with the sea.

But, apart from Joyce, I don't think we've done justice to Shakespeare's depiction of fatherhood in The Tempest.  Prospero is a single father to Miranda, her only adult role model, and her educator.  Has he done a good job?

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ConnieK wrote:

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friery wrote:

Jame Joyce echoes Shakespeare's "Full fathom five" song in the great novel Ulysses, as Stephen Dedalus ponders on the beach:

Five fathoms out there. Full fathom five thy father lies. At one he said. Found drowned. High water at Dublin bar. Driving before it a loose drift of rubble, fanshoals of fishes, silly shells. A corpse rising saltwhite from the undertow, bobbing landward, a pace a pace a porpoise. There he is. Hook it quick. Sunk though he be beneath the watery floor. We have him. Easy now.

And, as in The Tempest, it's about a father.

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Oh, thanks for posting this lovely passage, friery.  Joyce's stuff is so, so great, and I haven't read Ulysses in way too long. 

I wonder why the father figure is so often portrayed under the water like this?  Isn't the sea usually a feminine figure in literature and lore?  I'm thinking of Sylvia Plath's Ariel poems, too, and "Daddy."  Or is everyone after him just taking this cue from Shakespeare?  (Plath did).

What does anybody think?

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[ConnieAnnKirk]

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friery wrote:

ConnieK--thanks for the nice comment.

Joyce did use water as a feminine symbol, and in a glorious way.  In Finnegans Wake, the River Liffey in Dublin is depicted as a female character, Anna Livia Plurabelle.  Joyce's depiction of the death of ALP as an old woman is incredibly moving--he shows it as the river meeting and mingling with the sea.

But, apart from Joyce, I don't think we've done justice to Shakespeare's depiction of fatherhood in The Tempest.  Prospero is a single father to Miranda, her only adult role model, and her educator.  Has he done a good job?

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I took a couple of seminars in college on Joyce and have taught Dubliners and Portrait, but I'm not really sure if I made it all the way through Finnegan's Wake, to be honest, certainly not at the bit higher level of understanding I once had of Ulysses.  I know I would have known at the time, though, about the River Liffey, etc.  I love Joyce, as difficult as he is.  I visited the Sandycover tower when we were in Ireland and traced a small bit of Bloom's journey in Dublin.    Thanks for all these reminders!

Yes; father Prospero.  What do other readers think of his fathering abilities, or lack of them?

[Laurel]

He certainly did a better job than King Lear, didn't he?

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ConnieK wrote: 

Yes; father Prospero.  What do other readers think of his fathering abilities, or lack of them?

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