Time

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Siddhartha says he learns a secret from the river--that time does not exist (85). What do you think this means?

[Sunltcloud]

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ConnieK wrote:
Siddhartha says he learns a secret from the river--that time does not exist (85). What do you think this means?

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OM. Time is not linear. Time is circular. And if time is circular it is everywhere. Something we see as new already existed long before we see it. Something old is new by coming in front of our eyes for the first time. This must be the basic difference between Western and Eastern thought.

[tgem]

Buddhism often uses water as teaching example. For instance, it is said that waves are seen separate from the water, but they are part of the water. Perhaps the wave could be seen as the moment, but it is part of all the water, which is time. The part does not exist separately from the whole. If I really knew the answer to this question, I could probably time travel. Jeanne

[ConnieAnnKirk]

I'm reminded of the saying, "When you put your hand into a flowing stream, you touch the last of what has gone before and the first of what is yet to come." You seem to be saying that it's all there at once, though, as in not a continuum?

~ConnieK

[Sunltcloud]

ConnieK, here is how I look at the “all at once” phenomenon of the river, something I made up this afternoon when I walked under a cloudy sky, next to a creek, rain hitting my face:

Assume the river is a photographer. In the mountains the river takes pictures of a small birch tree, a bird, a squirrel. Later, as the river flows through the city there are pictures of a blue house, a white car, a black cat. When it reaches the ocean it photographs a shark, a boat, a sunset. All these pictures rise with the moisture and become parts of clouds and the clouds take more pictures (with a telephoto lens.) When it rains all the pictures fall out of the clouds back into the river. I stand there, at the riverbank, and if I pay attention I can see it all – the birch tree, the bird, the squirrel, the blue house, the white car, the black cat, the shark, the boat, the sunset, a dimly lit night sky with tiny stars, a photo that shows part of a Bamiyan Buddha Statue in the Hindu Kush of Afghanistan, a shaky shot of me at the riverbank. Ooops, wait, I think I am real, this is my mirror image in the water. I’m looking for enlightenment, but suddenly I realize that I can only find it when I am not looking for it. I think that is called serendipity.

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Thank you, Sunltcloud! I'm eager to hear what the students expected on the boards soon think of your comparison of the river to a photographer.

~ConnieK

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Sunltcloud wrote:
ConnieK, here is how I look at the “all at once” phenomenon of the river, something I made up this afternoon when I walked under a cloudy sky, next to a creek, rain hitting my face:

Assume the river is a photographer. In the mountains the river takes pictures of a small birch tree, a bird, a squirrel. Later, as the river flows through the city there are pictures of a blue house, a white car, a black cat. When it reaches the ocean it photographs a shark, a boat, a sunset. All these pictures rise with the moisture and become parts of clouds and the clouds take more pictures (with a telephoto lens.) When it rains all the pictures fall out of the clouds back into the river. I stand there, at the riverbank, and if I pay attention I can see it all – the birch tree, the bird, the squirrel, the blue house, the white car, the black cat, the shark, the boat, the sunset, a dimly lit night sky with tiny stars, a photo that shows part of a Bamiyan Buddha Statue in the Hindu Kush of Afghanistan, a shaky shot of me at the riverbank. Ooops, wait, I think I am real, this is my mirror image in the water. I’m looking for enlightenment, but suddenly I realize that I can only find it when I am not looking for it. I think that is called serendipity.

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[tgem]

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ConnieK wrote:
I'm reminded of the saying, "When you put your hand into a flowing stream, you touch the last of what has gone before and the first of what is yet to come." You seem to be saying that it's all there at once, though, as in not a continuum?

~ConnieK

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ConnieK: I wasn't ignoring your question, just thinking. I couldn't really express myself other than my previous thought. Then I came across something in the article written by Dainin Katagiri Roshi, "Being in Real Time," published in the Fall 2007 edition of Buddhadharma The Practitioner's Quarterly: "According to Buddhist teaching, everything exists together simultaneously in a moment...Time seems separate from beings, but actually there is no separation. From moment to moment, all sentient beings exist together as a completely independent moment of time. When the moment begins, all sentient beings temporarily appear as particular beings, in the stream of time. When the moment ceases, all sentient beings disappear, but do not go away; they are interconnected smoothly and quietly in timelessness." (p28) Hmm...Just more food for thought. tgem

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Thanks, tgem--Indeed, more food for thought...

~ConnieK

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tgem wrote:

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ConnieK wrote:
I'm reminded of the saying, "When you put your hand into a flowing stream, you touch the last of what has gone before and the first of what is yet to come." You seem to be saying that it's all there at once, though, as in not a continuum?

~ConnieK

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ConnieK: I wasn't ignoring your question, just thinking. I couldn't really express myself other than my previous thought. Then I came across something in the article written by Dainin Katagiri Roshi, "Being in Real Time," published in the Fall 2007 edition of Buddhadharma The Practitioner's Quarterly: "According to Buddhist teaching, everything exists together simultaneously in a moment...Time seems separate from beings, but actually there is no separation. From moment to moment, all sentient beings exist together as a completely independent moment of time. When the moment begins, all sentient beings temporarily appear as particular beings, in the stream of time. When the moment ceases, all sentient beings disappear, but do not go away; they are interconnected smoothly and quietly in timelessness." (p28) Hmm...Just more food for thought. tgem

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