Nick Adams stories

[zman]

OK, I'm rather new to Hemingway, having only read "The Snows Of Mt. Kilimanjaro" and "The Old Man And The Sea" prior to this discussion. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts about the "Chapters" of the Nick Adams stories. Although each of these stories can stand on its own, it would appear that Hemingway meant to have them read as a group, as a novelette as it were. There does appear to be a vague chronological order to them.

[fanuzzir]

I'm so glad you found that thread. I know that Hemingway published a collection of Nick Adams story, and that he is a recurring character in many of the ones we are reading. Let's piece together these "inter-stories" and see what we come up with.

[chadadanielleKR]

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fanuzzir wrote:
I'm so glad you found that thread. I know that Hemingway published a collection of Nick Adams story, and that he is a recurring character in many of the ones we are reading. Let's piece together these "inter-stories" and see what we come up with.

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I also just found about this thread. I think someone mentioned it in connection to the short story "Big Two-hearted River". This collection helps understand the character of Nick and his feeling of hopelessness when he comes back from war. Before the war he was just an ordinary character who loved his life as a country boy : fishing, hunting, possibly having a girl friend, getting drink with his friend; after the war, he doesn't know what to do with himself and doesn't feel like doing anything. But then, the idea of fishing comes along...
I guess that, on such a deep subject, Hemingway felt the need to elaborate of fuller character so as to put his message across the text in a more sophisticated way.

[jimgysin]

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fanuzzir wrote:

I'm so glad you found that thread. I know that Hemingway published a collection of Nick Adams story, and that he is a recurring character in many of the ones we are reading. Let's piece together these "inter-stories" and see what we come up with.

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Wikipedia was thoughtful enough to put together the list of stories for us, but I'm at a loss as to the method of listing. It's not chronological in terms of publishing dates or in terms of Nick's own life. If anyone can see a pattern, let me know. But for now, the list is:

- The Indian Camp"
- "The Doctor and the Doctor’s Wife"
- "The End of Something"
- "The Three-Day Blow"
- "Cross-Country Snow"
- "In Another Country"
- "A Way You’ll Never Be"
- "The Killers"
- "Ten Indians"
- "The Battler"
- "Fathers and Sons"
- "Now I Lay Me"
- "Big Two-Hearted River Part I"
- "Big Two-Hearted River Part II"

according to the page at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Adams_%;28character%29

That article also includes a link to an interesting NY Times piece from 1972 at:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/07/04/specials/hemingway-nick.html

-- Jim

[ziki]

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fanuzzir wrote: I know that Hemingway published a collection of Nick Adams story....

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yes, a whole book...I ditched it in a library today...hmmm...perhaps I ought to go back again.

ziki

[fanuzzir]

I think Nick was a model for Jake Barnes in Hemingway's first novel, The Sun Also Rises. (He goes fly fishing in Spain and has had a war injury to his male genitalia). I might have the chronology wrong. At any rate, Hemingway was extremely interested in this literary persona as a foundation for his fiction. Masculine but . . . injured.

[ziki]

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fanuzzir wrote:
I think Nick was a model for Jake Barnes in Hemingway's first novel, The Sun Also Rises. (He goes fly fishing in Spain and has had a war injury to his male genitalia). I might have the chronology wrong. At any rate, Hemingway was extremely interested in this literary persona as a foundation for his fiction. Masculine but . . . injured.

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Hmmm...that makes sense. Albeit this one doesn't seem to be injured to death like Macomber. Life is a deadly business for a little boy trying to grow up. Check out A Train Trip. That could have become a splendid male book.

Did Ernesto manage to grow up or did he just never gave up trying? I wonder. And what he feared most he did to himself, isn't life strange? (=Moody Blues again, they come often very handy ancient as they are.)

ziki

[bentley]

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zman wrote:
OK, I'm rather new to Hemingway, having only read "The Snows Of Mt. Kilimanjaro" and "The Old Man And The Sea" prior to this discussion. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts about the "Chapters" of the Nick Adams stories. Although each of these stories can stand on its own, it would appear that Hemingway meant to have them read as a group, as a novelette as it were. There does appear to be a vague chronological order to them.

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zman..possibly this url might help you..it has started to help me a great deal

http://www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/inourtime/section2.html

[kaylap]

So far I've read the following stories: In Another Country, The Killers, A Way You'll Never Be, and The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber.

These stories at first glance, all seem rather useless, and unbelievably hard to understand. Upon reading them a few more times, I've found that they were much easier to understand. A Way You'll Never Be was quite possibly the hardest story to read, but reading it through the third time I began to understand it.

Which of the stories did you think would be the hardest to understand?

[tangeman_s]

I think that A Way You'll Never Be was one of the hardest to understand. It's about Nick's Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after serving in the war. It's ironic that Nick goes through a village that is starting to get back life and recovering and that Nick is not ever going to recover.

I like the title and how it relates to how Nick will never be a young soldier again. He will never be healthy and full of life like the new soldiers he goes to visit.

[tangeman_s]

In the story Fathers and Sons, why do you think Nick will not write down his memories of his father?

[kaipustc]

I think that Nick will not write down the memories of his father because he is not ready to. Nick is still trying to cope with his father’s death. His father killed himself and Nick can not get over why he did that. Nick says he can’t write about it because it is still too early and there were still too many people. I think Nick had a love-hate relationship with his father. But, I don’t think Nick realized how much he did love his dad until he was gone and I think that is why he can’t write about it. In real life, Hemingway’s father killed himself and he wrote this story while he was coping. Hemingway’s father was the one who made him into a man. He was the one who took him out hunting when his mom wanted to put him in a dress. Both Nick and Hemingway did not realize how valuable the time they spent with their dad’s was until they were gone. So the real reason he didn’t write them down was because he couldn’t accept his fathers death.

[kaipustc]

What is the importance of the line in Fathers and Sons that says “when you have shot one bird flying, you have shot all birds flying” [Snow of MT.KMJ page 63]?

[s_kirkland]

In the Killers Nick Adams is caught in a situation where he needs to act on what he feels is right. What happens in the story that makes him heroic according to Hemingways heroic code? When Max and Al are in the restaurant what makes nick non-heroic?

[mconzett]

I think that Nick is heroic when he goes up to talk to Andreson to tell him that there are men that want to kill him. He goes up alone when no one else wants to go with him and he does it despite his fear. He is not heroic because he allows himself and the cook to be tied up and doesn't fight back. He is also not a hero because he leaves the town and he does not want to deal with any of the corruption of society that is displayed in Summit.

[mconzett]

What do you think has happened in Andreson's life to make him go from being a fighter, to not wanting to fight at all and willing to die?

Message Edited by mconzett on 03-27-200711:51 AM

[s_kirkland]

Ole' Andreson was said to be a fighter from Chicago. During this time in history people were getting involved in gambleing and betting on different sporting events. I think that Andreson had been around some of this and got caught in the middle of it. He got stuck and wasnt able to pay and now the "mafia" or gang of who he owes money is looking for them. Max and Al said they were here for a friend and George figured it was becuase Andreson got in some trouble when he was up in the city. When Nick went to go see Andreson he said he knew what was going on and he was tired of running from it. I think h eknew eventually they would catch up to him, and he would never really be free from the corruption he had become involved in.

[jweiss]

I think that Ole probably got mixed up in some sort of bootlegging operation. The story was set in 1927, right when prohibition was real big. Hemingway says that Ole was from Chicago and Chicago was also the home of one of the most notorious gangsters in American History, Al Capone. Capone, as we all know, was not afraid to kill people who he felt had betrayed him. I think that Ole probably just got mixed up with the wrong people at the wrong time.

[jsacco]

In THE KILLERS why did George send Nick to see if Ole was alright instead of going to see Ole himself? Was he afraid or did he just not want to get involved and mind his own business?

[mconzett]

George sent Nick to see if Ole was alright because he was a coward and did not want to become part of it. I think that as well as minding his own business, he chicked out and wanted to put the problem on someone's elses shoulder. If George wasn't able to see the problem, then he would not have to worry about it.