Welcome from your moderator

[mef6395]

Has there been a change of plans or schedule? I thought we were going to be discussing NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. I'm pretty sure that was what was posted until I checked again just now.
~~ Lou

[Laurel]

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Jimbo1580 wrote:
I just started reading the book. Hopefully I have time to read it twice during this discussion. I have read a few books by Dostoevsky including: The Brothers Karamazov, The Possessed, and Notes From Underground. I have also read a couple books about him. The reason I keep reading him is because the more you read and know, the more you realize how complex HE is as well as how complex and deep his books go. I have never been in a discussion about his books, so I am looking forward to it.

-Jim

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That is true, Jim. I look forward to discussing this unusual man with you and the others.

Laurel

[Laurel]

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mef6395 wrote:
Has there been a change of plans or schedule? I thought we were going to be discussing NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. I'm pretty sure that was what was posted until I checked again just now.
~~ Lou

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It's a bit confusing, Lou, because the Barnes and Noble Classics book is called "Notes from the Underground, The Double, and Other Stories." I asked Ilana about this in another forum and she said she decided to make "The Double" the focus story, but we could read and discuss others too if we want. I'm planning to read both.

[saltydog]

Since I tend to get lost in the world of similes, metaphors, and analogies I look forward to what this august group's thoughts will be about Mr. D's work. I tackled "The Brothers Karamazov" a few years ago and "Crime and Punishment" more recently. Much of the time I just stumbled along waiting for enlightenment.

Being a retired psychologist, I find it amazing that, at the tender age of 21 or 22, Dostoevsky had the understanding of the human psyche that he did. I recall reading that one critic of the time suggested he must have know someone who was afflicted with a "split personality" whom he modeled "our hero" on.

The Salty Dog

[IlanaSimons]

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Jimbo1580 wrote:
I just started reading the book. Hopefully I have time to read it twice during this discussion. I have read a few books by Dostoevsky including: The Brothers Karamazov, The Possessed, and Notes From Underground. I have also read a couple books about him. The reason I keep reading him is because the more you read and know, the more you realize how complex HE is as well as how complex and deep his books go. I have never been in a discussion about his books, so I am looking forward to it.

-Jim

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So glad you're here, Jimbo1580. I look forward to hearing your take on this book.

[IlanaSimons]

Good answer, Laurel. That's right: We can be open to discussing more than "The Double." I'm now focusing my own energy on "The Double," but people can also feel free to launch new threads.
Ilana

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Laurel wrote:

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mef6395 wrote:
Has there been a change of plans or schedule? I thought we were going to be discussing NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. I'm pretty sure that was what was posted until I checked again just now.
~~ Lou

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It's a bit confusing, Lou, because the Barnes and Noble Classics book is called "Notes from the Underground, The Double, and Other Stories." I asked Ilana about this in another forum and she said she decided to make "The Double" the focus story, but we could read and discuss others too if we want. I'm planning to read both.

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[IlanaSimons]

Retired psychologist! Wonderful. (I'm in training to become one myself.) The intro in the B&N version has some insightful things to say about the difference between guilt and shame. As you know, there are some wonderful psychological studies on the difference between the two. Dostoevsky seems to have been intrigued with what shame can trigger in us.

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saltydog wrote:
Since I tend to get lost in the world of similes, metaphors, and analogies I look forward to what this august group's thoughts will be about Mr. D's work. I tackled "The Brothers Karamazov" a few years ago and "Crime and Punishment" more recently. Much of the time I just stumbled along waiting for enlightenment.

Being a retired psychologist, I find it amazing that, at the tender age of 21 or 22, Dostoevsky had the understanding of the human psyche that he did. I recall reading that one critic of the time suggested he must have know someone who was afflicted with a "split personality" whom he modeled "our hero" on.

The Salty Dog

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[mef6395]

But the thing is, as late as March 3rd the guide questions for NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND were already posted on the board here. And then 24 hrs before discussion time they simply disappeared to be replaced by those of THE DOUBLE. It's confusing indeed, and a bit unfair too, don't you think? The schedule that was originally posted (and was there for a month) was that the discussion would focus mainly on NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND ... and then some other short works by Dostoevsky, and not the other way around.

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Laurel wrote:

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mef6395 wrote:
Has there been a change of plans or schedule? I thought we were going to be discussing NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. I'm pretty sure that was what was posted until I checked again just now.
~~ Lou

---

It's a bit confusing, Lou, because the Barnes and Noble Classics book is called "Notes from the Underground, The Double, and Other Stories." I asked Ilana about this in another forum and she said she decided to make "The Double" the focus story, but we could read and discuss others too if we want. I'm planning to read both.

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[mef6395]

Hello Ilana- Could you at least put the discussion guide for NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND back on the board, perhaps on another thread?
~~ Lou

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IlanaSimons wrote:
Good answer, Laurel. That's right: We can be open to discussing more than "The Double." I'm now focusing my own energy on "The Double," but people can also feel free to launch new threads.
Ilana

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Laurel wrote:

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mef6395 wrote:
Has there been a change of plans or schedule? I thought we were going to be discussing NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. I'm pretty sure that was what was posted until I checked again just now.
~~ Lou

---

It's a bit confusing, Lou, because the Barnes and Noble Classics book is called "Notes from the Underground, The Double, and Other Stories." I asked Ilana about this in another forum and she said she decided to make "The Double" the focus story, but we could read and discuss others too if we want. I'm planning to read both.

---

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[IlanaSimons]

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mef6395 wrote:
Hello Ilana- Could you at least put the discussion guide for NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND back on the board, perhaps on another thread?
~~ Lou

>

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looking into this now. Will get back to you soon.

[IlanaSimons]

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mef6395 wrote:
Hello Ilana- Could you at least put the discussion guide for NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND back on the board, perhaps on another thread?
~~ Lou


You probably saw some NOTES reading questions on another site...we actually haven't posted any. BUT BUT! If people on this board are reading NOTES and want to create a thread, please do.
Ilana

[PaulK]

I read the first two chapters and feel that with each page I read I am losing understanding. I think this is a story that needs to be read twice. But I will continue to push through but do not know how much I will be able to contribute for awhile.

[IlanaSimons]

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PaulK wrote:
I read the first two chapters and feel that with each page I read I am losing understanding. I think this is a story that needs to be read twice. But I will continue to push through but do not know how much I will be able to contribute for awhile.

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good answer!
let's go _really slowly._ I do think it needs two readings.

[Laurel]

Double readings.

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IlanaSimons wrote:

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PaulK wrote:
I read the first two chapters and feel that with each page I read I am losing understanding. I think this is a story that needs to be read twice. But I will continue to push through but do not know how much I will be able to contribute for awhile.

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good answer!
let's go _really slowly._ I do think it needs two readings.

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[ziki]

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PaulK wrote:
I read the first two chapters and feel that with each page I read I am losing understanding.

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uff da, Ilana wants us all safely tucked away in a madhouse by the end of the term. LOL

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-05-200707:17 PM

[IlanaSimons]

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ziki wrote:

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PaulK wrote:
I read the first two chapters and feel that with each page I read I am losing understanding.

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uff da, Ilana wants us all safely tucked away in a madhouse by the end of the term. LOL

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-05-200707:17 PM

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Yeah. But our April crazy will be Virginia Woolf, and at least she's a crazy who's writing is a smooooth ride. Kafka, Ford Madox Ford, and Dostoevsky are (I'll admit it) crazies with really brittle bumpy rides.

[ziki]

I enjoy the loony bunch ride! No Hollywood here.

Life isn't a magazine add in four color print.

ziki

[ziki]

I think it would be interesting. Maybe we just have a separate file for it.
ziki

[ziki]

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saltydog wrote:
Since I tend to get lost in the world of similes, metaphors, and analogies I look forward to what this august group's thoughts will be about Mr. D's work. I tackled "The Brothers Karamazov" a few years ago and "Crime and Punishment" more recently. Much of the time I just stumbled along waiting for enlightenment.

Being a retired psychologist, I find it amazing that, at the tender age of 21 or 22, Dostoevsky had the understanding of the human psyche that he did. I recall reading that one critic of the time suggested he must have know someone who was afflicted with a "split personality" whom he modeled "our hero" on.

The Salty Dog

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Hmmmm...then I can pehaps advance with my theory that John Dowell and Edward in Good Soldier were one and the same. Perhaps I should start working on a spin off

ziki

[ziki]

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IlanaSimons wrote: Dostoevsky seems to have been intrigued with what shame can trigger in us.

Now that is a topic!

Isn't the general distinction between guilt and shame concerned with what is wrong? Guilt: I did something wrong. I harmed someone.
Shame: I (the whole me) is also wrong. I do bad things, I am faulty.

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 03-06-200703:06 AM