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Jimbo1580
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Chapter 9

Saltydog wrote:
"... He clearly admits that there is a second Golyadkin whose work performances and whose audacity in a public place are much better than his own. Of course, the whole letter implies that he whishes so much to be the other one but he just can't be the other one; which is a very frustrating position..."

I agree. I think that he starts the letter being very angry, but as he writes, his mood seems to change to jealous and then to envy. He wants very much to be like Jr. and that is why he keeps telling himself that he will forgive Jr. and they will be friends.
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Jimbo1580
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Re: Chapter 9

That is exactly the reason that I struggled with the book. As the events occur and I tell myself that they are really the same person, I wonder what the other people are thinking. Especially the scene in the office where he describes how Jr. makes fun of Sr. and all his work colleagues are laughing. What are they laughing at if Jr. isn't really there?
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IlanaSimons
Posts: 2,223
Registered: ‎10-20-2006
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Re: Chapter 9



Jimbo1580 wrote:
That is exactly the reason that I struggled with the book. As the events occur and I tell myself that they are really the same person, I wonder what the other people are thinking. Especially the scene in the office where he describes how Jr. makes fun of Sr. and all his work colleagues are laughing. What are they laughing at if Jr. isn't really there?




You bring up a good point. But this is also where Dostoevsky is skillful, I think. You know that Rubin vase/face illusion (e.g. see here: http://www.psychologie.tu-dresden.de/i1/kaw/diverses%20Material/www.illusionworks.com/html/figure_ground.html), where you can look at one thing and see two different images?
Either we're buried in Golyadkin's hallucinations in the office, or not. But Dostoevsky is delivering the mind of the insane: Golyadkin can't be talked out of the delusions if they are delusions. They seem so totally real.



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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IlanaSimons
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Re: Chapter 9



IlanaSimons wrote:


Jimbo1580 wrote:
That is exactly the reason that I struggled with the book. As the events occur and I tell myself that they are really the same person, I wonder what the other people are thinking. Especially the scene in the office where he describes how Jr. makes fun of Sr. and all his work colleagues are laughing. What are they laughing at if Jr. isn't really there?




You bring up a good point. But this is also where Dostoevsky is skillful, I think. You know that Rubin vase/face illusion (e.g. see here: http://www.psychologie.tu-dresden.de/i1/kaw/diverses%20Material/www.illusionworks.com/html/figure_ground.html), where you can look at one thing and see two different images?
Either we're buried in Golyadkin's hallucinations in the office, or not. But Dostoevsky is delivering the mind of the insane: Golyadkin can't be talked out of the delusions if they are delusions. They seem so totally real.




I see my link doesn't work. gotta cut n paste the whole url in.



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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IlanaSimons
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Chapter 10

In the beginning of chapter 10 (p 111), Golyadkin has a few dreams.
The dream sequences help us see Golyadkin's reality as hallucinatory, too.

In one dream, Golyadkin meets a guy who says, "What's the use of strength of character!"
This seems interesting to me. It's as if Golyadkin feels that all people are honestly full of self-doubt and multiplicity, and that so-called "strength of character" is itself an act. Does anyone have thoughts on these dreams?



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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IlanaSimons
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More Chapter 10

In chapter 10, Golyadkin junior is running around with the green (fertile, envy-inducing) folder, and Golyadkin senior feels betrayed. I was thinking that this sounds accurate to the ambivalence we can feel about ambition: When you start to get successful at the office, you hate that side of yourself that's "selling out." Any thoughts on this? Golyadkin senior hates the ambitious side of himself, which he insists is not his "real" identity.



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


Inspired Wordsmith
chadadanielleKR
Posts: 368
Registered: ‎10-29-2006
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Re: "The Double": Chapter 8

Goliadkine's situation in his office reminds me so much of the situation which can arise in a place where many people work close together for years.

For a long time, a certain number of employees might assume that everyone is working towards the same goal, that it is in the interest of everyone to maintain good quality relationships towards each other. If one feels good about oneself and comfortable whithin his work environment, there is no reason to be suspicious of the others. But then, if something goes wrong, for instance some one else got promoted or got invited to a party (like Goliadkine who had not been invited, chap III), then suddenly everything goes wrong, the whole office becomes the enemy and the whole situation becomes unbearable.
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