The Jungle [ Edited ]

[Choisya]

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-22-200707:05 PM

[MacNCheese]

I dont believe the whole country would change but there are already cities and towns that have. I am bilingual and when I was looking for a job they only wanted bilingual, just not languages I know. Which is too bad because I know many language teachers, who work for the military, that started learning english the moment they stepped into America, but now (in the area I live in) they can not find other jobs because they dont know the languages that the townspeople need. So no it is not happening over night but it is happening slowly and without a common ground how can we give all those who immigrate the same fair chance and opportunities?

[Choisya]

Hello MacNCheese! I am sorry but I do not understand your post, perhaps because I am in the UK. When you say you are bi-lingual do you mean in English & Spanish? And what is happening overnight but slowly - the learning of Spanish by Americans or of English by immigrants?

---

MacNCheese wrote:
I dont believe the whole country would change but there are already cities and towns that have. I am bilingual and when I was looking for a job they only wanted bilingual, just not languages I know. Which is too bad because I know many language teachers, who work for the military, that started learning english the moment they stepped into America, but now (in the area I live in) they can not find other jobs because they dont know the languages that the townspeople need. So no it is not happening over night but it is happening slowly and without a common ground how can we give all those who immigrate the same fair chance and opportunities?

---

[JesseBC]

Just chiming in to say hello. I used to be involved with BNU and figured I'd check out the new boards. It looks like there's less participation, but what little I've seen seems to be of higher quality than the inane, repetitive discussions that eventually overtook so much of BNU.

I've never read The Jungle, but I'm thinking it's about time. How do the boards handle discussions without giving away plot points? Is there any system similar to BNU's where discussion up through a certain chapter is separated from the discussion of later chapters?

[Choisya]

Hi JesseBC and welcome back! I think there is less participation because there are more books being discussed and folks are therefore spread around. You will find that Fanuzzir, the Jungle's Moderator, will put up chapter headings soon - the discussion isn't due to start until January - tomorrow that is. If you post anything which you think will give away the plot, preface the Subject heading with (Possible Spoiler). Happy New Year!

---

JesseBC wrote:
Just chiming in to say hello. I used to be involved with BNU and figured I'd check out the new boards. It looks like there's less participation, but what little I've seen seems to be of higher quality than the inane, repetitive discussions that eventually overtook so much of BNU.

I've never read The Jungle, but I'm thinking it's about time. How do the boards handle discussions without giving away plot points? Is there any system similar to BNU's where discussion up through a certain chapter is separated from the discussion of later chapters?

---

[Jackjoy]

Hi all, I haven't been on since B&N University so Im new to how this bookclub works. I would like to join in on "The Jungle" and was wondering if there is any signing up or you just jump on in? I did read on a previous post that the moderator will post chapters etc. Thanks for any imput.

[atlantic1018]

Upton Sincalir's Jurgis Rudkus is particularly optimistic because he does indeed come to America and he throws a somewhat "extravagant" wedding; many of the guests seem to not care to donate any money at all. They are hungry pigs set out to eat and fill their stomachs. Although it is a means of survival for some of the guests, some take complete advantage of the family. This, ladies and gentlemen, is a foreshadowing of the demise that is yet to come for the poor immigrant family. Jurgis and his family will also become such "money-and-food-hungry" pigs.

They become the pigs and the factories become the farms that employ and feed the pigs. The factory determines their fate. No factory, no food, no job, no life. Therefore Jurgis and his family are doomed.

His optimism is perhaps his own tragic flaw. Optimism motivates him and in the beginning he minimally succeeds by obtaining the house. Little does he know that Packingtown is a town of deceit. The house is his false sense of reality and a sole figment of his vague and obviously ambiguous imagination. His eventual downfall is evident as his wife becomes addicted to both sex and drugs alike: prostitution takes over her. She is lured into an addiction and a tragic demise. It becomes a part of her identity.

Jurgis's optimism turns into hope. Hope turns into addiction. The alcoholism lurking over Packingtown takes over Jurgis and diminishes all hope. The optimism that once was, shall never again be.

[Choisya]

Hi and Welcome jackboy - just jump in! I expect Fanuzzir will post an 'Introductions' thread where you can tell everyone who you are Remember to put 'Spoiler' in the Subject line of any posts that may reveal the plot to others and 'Off topic' for any little 'asides'.

---

Jackjoy wrote:
Hi all, I haven't been on since B&N University so Im new to how this bookclub works. I would like to join in on "The Jungle" and was wondering if there is any signing up or you just jump on in? I did read on a previous post that the moderator will post chapters etc. Thanks for any imput.

---

[Choisya]

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-22-200707:04 PM

[atlantic1018]

Optimism and pessimism do indeed play key roles in the novel. One may effortlessly see the good in all of Jurgis's ventures. Although he tries to leave the city, it is of no use! One cannot deny the opportunities that cities accommodate individuals with. Thank goodness Suburbia is not apparent in The Jungle. If there was a Suburbia, Jurgis would have been doomed much later, but more painfully indeed.

Choisya, have you ever read Winesburg, Ohio? I think Anderson's novel is intriguing in that it sparks the creation of a "medium" between the two "evils" that are the rural and urban environments. Although there are no apparent immigrants, it is a tale of escaping only to find more failure.

[atlantic1018]

Happy New Year everyone!!!

[atlantic1018]

"Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow,
Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me..."

- By John Donne, c. 1610

Death is but a means of salvation for this family. Cruelty has led them to their own demise. The cruelty of their bosses have left them hopeless; these same "bosses" have left us hopeless.

Please comment!!!

[Choisya]

I have not re-read far enough on in the book at this point to be able to answer this Atlantic. Remember this discussion has not really started yet and some will not have read the book or will be waiting to read along with others

---

atlantic1018 wrote:
"Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow,
Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me..."

- By John Donne, c. 1610

Death is but a means of salvation for this family. Cruelty has led them to their own demise. The cruelty of their bosses have left them hopeless; these same "bosses" have left us hopeless.

Please comment!!!

---

[atlantic1018]

Please do read The Jungle with a critical eye. Concentrate on the ideals of what the family believes is "good and bad" in the beginning versus their ideals at the end!

* Jurgis is the ultimate sign of sympathy. He epitomizes the hardworking wannabe American and justifies the wrong ideals of modern American politics. Conservatives delve into traditional values; they look past the jungle that is politics. Conservatives love to create a jungle by devastating our Constitution and incorporating religious values into the society of America! They love to hate the lower class and tend to dissatisfy the immigrant population. One must acknowledge the pain that this poor family goes through, only to fail. The abuse of workers is an issue that exists even today!

[JesseBC]

Could everyone please respect the spoiler rule that I was just told prevails on these forums?

I just started the book today and I'd prefer not to have it ruined for me before I've even finished Chapter One.

[fanuzzir]

Fanuzzir, the Jungle's Moderator, will put up chapter headings soon - the discussion isn't due to start until January - tomorrow that is.

Actually, the discussion will begin January 8, as previously posted. This is the community forum, so please everyone take advantage of the space and the freedom of this thread to pose your questions and make your introductions. I'll have a number of threads for you to consider, along the model of Moby Dick. Any one who is new to this board should check with that to see how I organized things. I'll see you all next Monday. Right now, I can be found on the Moby Dick page.

Message Edited by fanuzzir on 01-02-200705:22 PM

[chadadanielleKR]

I just read an interesting article published today in the NYT which refers to The Jungle, some of you might have read it already. Very relevant, isn't it? Here it is: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/opinion/02tue4.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Jackjoy]

---

Choisya wrote:
Hi and Welcome jackboy - just jump in! I expect Fanuzzir will post an 'Introductions' thread where you can tell everyone who you are Remember to put 'Spoiler' in the Subject line of any posts that may reveal the plot to others and 'Off topic' for any little 'asides'.

---

Jackjoy wrote:
Hi all, I haven't been on since B&N University so Im new to how this bookclub works. I would like to join in on "The Jungle" and was wondering if there is any signing up or you just jump on in? I did read on a previous post that the moderator will post chapters etc. Thanks for any imput.

---

---

Thanks Choisya! I look forward to this book for it sounds very interesting from reading the posts.

[Choisya]

Great article Danielle and welcome back for a Happy New Year! How is the weather in Paris this winter?

---

chadadanielleKR wrote:
I just read an interesting article published today in the NYT which refers to The Jungle, some of you might have read it already. Very relevant, isn't it? Here it is: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/opinion/02tue4.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

---

[MacNCheese]

Thank You so much for that article! I loved it!