OT (Off-Topic) Chat

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Here's a thread for member conversation that may not be directly related to the book or author. 

~ConnieK

[jamisha12]

Oh k nice to know Connie

[Banderas]

I have a very old copy of Villette, and so far, much of it is written in French and in English, often switching between languages in the middle of a sentence.  How is this handled in a modern version? Is it just in English, or is translation provided?

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Hi, Banderas--In the B&N Classics paperback edition, there are footnote translations of the French phrases.  There is not a lot of French, however.  Most of the text is English.

Hope this helps!

~ConnieK

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Banderas wrote:

I have a very old copy of Villette, and so far, much of it is written in French and in English, often switching between languages in the middle of a sentence.  How is this handled in a modern version? Is it just in English, or is translation provided?

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[dulcinea3]

My copy has no footnotes or translations, either, and there is quite a bit of French, so I'm surprised that other editions would not have so much French.  It seems like most of M. Paul's dialogue is in French, as well as other characters.  I'm doing the best I can with my high school French, but it is quite a challenge!

[ConnieAnnKirk]

If there's a sentence you're really having trouble with, or are dying to know the translation of, let me know, and I can try to look up the English translation for you in the B&N edition.  I guess I'd need the chapter and maybe a description of the place in it (starting words of the paragraph would be helpful) to find it, since our page numbers would be different.

~ConnieK

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dulcinea3 wrote:

My copy has no footnotes or translations, either, and there is quite a bit of French, so I'm surprised that other editions would not have so much French.  It seems like most of M. Paul's dialogue is in French, as well as other characters.  I'm doing the best I can with my high school French, but it is quite a challenge!

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[dulcinea3]

Thanks, Connie, I'll keep that in mind!

[momgee]

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dulcinea3 wrote:

Thanks, Connie, I'll keep that in mind!

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I have the Oxford World classic edition and it has 42 pages of explanations at the end of the book. That old HS French comes in handy but some of these things are so idiomatic they make no sense to me so I have had to look up a lot.

kaye

[dulcinea3]

So far there hasn't been much discussion.  I was wondering if anyone has the Barnes & Noble Classics edition, because they usually have some discussion questions at the end.  Maybe if a few of those were posted, they would inspire more discussion.

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Yes; I usually do post those, and I'll do that soon.  Don't forget that participants can post new threads with their own topics of interest at any time as well.  Just click on "New Message" at the top left of your screen.

~ConnieK

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dulcinea3 wrote:

So far there hasn't been much discussion.  I was wondering if anyone has the Barnes & Noble Classics edition, because they usually have some discussion questions at the end.  Maybe if a few of those were posted, they would inspire more discussion.

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[dulcinea3]

Thanks, Connie!

Oh, by the way, since you offered on the French, exactly what is a 'berceau'?  TIA!

[ConnieAnnKirk]

 I didn't say I could translate French--I mentioned that I could look up the translation of the phrases used in the novel as they're presented in the B&N Classics edition of Villette (with a chapt. number to help me find it).  That said, though, I looked up your query in an online French-English dictionary, and it says it means "cradle, crib."  Just Google "French to English dictionary" and plug in the word, and you should be able to do the same thing!  Isn't the Internet wonderful? 

Hope that helps!

~ConnieK

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dulcinea3 wrote:

Thanks, Connie!

Oh, by the way, since you offered on the French, exactly what is a 'berceau'?  TIA!

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[dulcinea3]

Sorry, Connie, since I don't have that edition, I didn't realize that it didn't have the translation for that word, which is used so often in the novel.  Since you mentioned that it did have some translations, I figured that they would have said what it meant.

Editing this to say that I have inquired elsewhere on the meaning, since crib or cradle didn't seem to make sense in this context, and that was the only translation I could find on a number of French online dictionaries, too.  I was told that there is a phrase 'berceau de verdure', which means arbor, and a Frenchman also reasoned out that it might mean arbor or pergola, because berceau is also used in a phrase for a vaulted roof.  Arbor seems to make perfect sense in the context.

Message Edited by dulcinea3 on 04-21-2008 12:57 PM

[ConnieAnnKirk]

dulcinea3:  Could you please point me to the use of the phrase in a specific chapter of your edition? 

Thanks,

~ConnieK

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dulcinea3 wrote:

Sorry, Connie, since I don't have that edition, I didn't realize that it didn't have the translation for that word, which is used so often in the novel.  Since you mentioned that it did have some translations, I figured that they would have said what it meant.

Editing this to say that I have inquired elsewhere on the meaning, since crib or cradle didn't seem to make sense in this context, and that was the only translation I could find on a number of French online dictionaries, too.  I was told that there is a phrase 'berceau de verdure', which means arbor, and a Frenchman also reasoned out that it might mean arbor or pergola, because berceau is also used in a phrase for a vaulted roof.  Arbor seems to make perfect sense in the context.

Message Edited by dulcinea3 on 04-21-2008 12:57 PM

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[ConnieAnnKirk]

dulcinea3:  In Chapter 14, "The Fete," six paragraphs in, with the paragraph starting "About this time--" there is the following passage: 

"We lived far more in the garden than under a roof:  classes were held, and meals partaken of, in the 'grand berceau.'"  (p. 143).

The B&N Classics edition translates 'grand berceau' on that page as "Large arbor." 

Does that help?

~ConnieK

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ConnieK wrote:

dulcinea3:  Could you please point me to the use of the phrase in a specific chapter of your edition? 

Thanks,

~ConnieK

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dulcinea3 wrote:

Sorry, Connie, since I don't have that edition, I didn't realize that it didn't have the translation for that word, which is used so often in the novel.  Since you mentioned that it did have some translations, I figured that they would have said what it meant.

Editing this to say that I have inquired elsewhere on the meaning, since crib or cradle didn't seem to make sense in this context, and that was the only translation I could find on a number of French online dictionaries, too.  I was told that there is a phrase 'berceau de verdure', which means arbor, and a Frenchman also reasoned out that it might mean arbor or pergola, because berceau is also used in a phrase for a vaulted roof.  Arbor seems to make perfect sense in the context.

Message Edited by dulcinea3 on 04-21-2008 12:57 PM

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[dulcinea3]

Thanks, Connie!  That makes a lot of sense.  I hadn't thought of giving a specific reference, since the word is used almost constantly throughout the book, pretty much every time they are outside in the garden; sorry about that.

[ConnieAnnKirk]

Oh, that's ok, dulcinea!  I'm just a research "gnerd," I guess, and work best with specifics!  Ha.  Not to worry.    I'm glad it helps clear things up for you.

~ConnieK

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dulcinea3 wrote:

Thanks, Connie!  That makes a lot of sense.  I hadn't thought of giving a specific reference, since the word is used almost constantly throughout the book, pretty much every time they are outside in the garden; sorry about that.

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Message Edited by ConnieK on 04-24-2008 09:56 AM