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KathyS
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"

Ilse, I think you put this topic into a perspective worth looking at.

I think some of the meaning of the word, thief, comes from having something that is taken away from us that we value. I don't think any of us can say, yes, I want those wrinkles, gray hair, saggy body parts, or even loss of hair, or whatever else comes with age, so when it does happen, we see a loss of something, because it's replaced with something less desirable to look at.

I feel it's just human nature to view life in this way, as we age. I don't morn my youth, or feel I've been robbed of it...because it's simply a physical thing, part of the cycle of life. Because I don't feel any different inside, as I am older, now...I still see myself as the person I was in my 20's. I still have the same silly way I look at life. I still laugh at myself, and see humor in the darndest things - this keeps me young at heart, but with growing age, there can be more..... I also find I can view a more deeper self that is being created inside of me. As long as my mind is still intact (some of you may laugh at this)...I can see myself at any age. If I feel old, I am, etc.

Yes, every day I look at myself in the mirror, and wonder why my mother is looking back at me! I read something that was sent to me, recently....one of those dreaded forwards!....the nose and ears never stop growing. I knew this, but to think about it when you're young, nah! When these items on your head are already at size that may be enormous, yikes! (just a 'little' visual humor for you twenty-somethings out there!)

Kathy S.
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Wrighty
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"


IBIS wrote:
I understand Jacob wondering where his "true" younger self disappeared; who is this old man staring back at him in the mirror? We can certainly empathize with him and wish him well. But saying that he was "robbed" of his younger self is a disservice to having aged gracefully, and appreciating all the stages of a well-lived life.

IBIS

Message Edited by IBIS on 12-14-2007 02:03 PM



These are great comments IBIS. We all need to learn to age more gracefully and appreciate our golden years. I think Jacob may have felt extra frustrated about his lost youth because with his memory problems he often feels he has lost it. He has more and more episodes where he seems to blackout (or blankout) and he loses whole sections of time instead of being able to cherish fond memories.
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vivico1
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"


Wrighty wrote:

IBIS wrote:
I understand Jacob wondering where his "true" younger self disappeared; who is this old man staring back at him in the mirror? We can certainly empathize with him and wish him well. But saying that he was "robbed" of his younger self is a disservice to having aged gracefully, and appreciating all the stages of a well-lived life.

IBIS

Message Edited by IBIS on 12-14-2007 02:03 PM



These are great comments IBIS. We all need to learn to age more gracefully and appreciate our golden years. I think Jacob may have felt extra frustrated about his lost youth because with his memory problems he often feels he has lost it. He has more and more episodes where he seems to blackout (or blankout) and he loses whole sections of time instead of being able to cherish fond memories.


Don't you think too tho that people can feel "robbed" when maybe they were great adventurers, mentally or physically, and their faculties and body begin to fail them? I sometimes feel, the ones wanting to live life the most, are the ones who feel cheated that they can't. If your mind is still the great dancer, and your legs will no longer hold you up, you can feel robbed. I don't even think thats necessarily a negative feeling, or an "un" graceful way to grow old. I think its just someone who is not ready to stop yet. They do not want to go gently into the night. It's not that they are not aging well, or gracefully. I don't mean people who get mean or depressed when they are old and withdrawn because they feel robbed, just those who are so ready for the next adventure, even with worn out bodies, they will find one. Jacob did.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Wrighty
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"


vivico1 wrote:
Don't you think too tho that people can feel "robbed" when maybe they were great adventurers, mentally or physically, and their faculties and body begin to fail them? I sometimes feel, the ones wanting to live life the most, are the ones who feel cheated that they can't. If your mind is still the great dancer, and your legs will no longer hold you up, you can feel robbed. I don't even think thats necessarily a negative feeling, or an "un" graceful way to grow old. I think its just someone who is not ready to stop yet. They do not want to go gently into the night. It's not that they are not aging well, or gracefully. I don't mean people who get mean or depressed when they are old and withdrawn because they feel robbed, just those who are so ready for the next adventure, even with worn out bodies, they will find one. Jacob did.



I totally agree about people feeling robbed where they're still raring to go. These last 10 years have been tough on me. When my health problems started in my early 30's I really had a hard time readjusting to my limitations. In my mind I'm still a teenager. It would feel terrible to be going through all that old Jacob has endured. At his age he can't expect to get better but I'm so glad he hasn't given up. If you still have the drive and the desire there is always something you can find to do. You may have to find new interests and a different way to do things but there is something out there for everyone.
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IBIS
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"

I was responding to the phrase in the Message Subject: Age is a terrible thief.

I agree with everyone that losing one's youth gracefully, missing it's benefits, but accepting the limitations of aging is admirable. I understand that there are very robust people who miss the vitality of their youths, and feel great loss.

But the phrase "Age is a terrible thief" sounds like accusation and indictment of aging itself. The phrase insinuates malicious intent by a very natural, if not always pleasant, reality of old age.

It's self-defeating to create an enemy, a thief, out of a natural part of our lifecycles.
That's what I was responding to.

IBIS
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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Wrighty
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"


IBIS wrote:
I was responding to the phrase in the Message Subject: Age is a terrible thief.

I agree with everyone that losing one's youth gracefully, missing it's benefits, but accepting the limitations of aging is admirable. I understand that there are very robust people who miss the vitality of their youths, and feel great loss.

But the phrase "Age is a terrible thief" sounds like accusation and indictment of aging itself. The phrase insinuates malicious intent by a very natural, if not always pleasant, reality of old age.

It's self-defeating to create an enemy, a thief, out of a natural part of our lifecycles.
That's what I was responding to.

IBIS



I don't think it's always easy to age gracefully in our society today. We don't always value our elderly and the wisdom and experience they can provide to us. We don't always take care of our elderly either. (I'm not speaking on a personal level here, I'm speaking in general) If that's the message we're sending than it seems like it would be very easy to think of aging as an enemy instead of a natural reality.
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vivico1
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"

[ Edited ]

Wrighty wrote:

IBIS wrote:
I was responding to the phrase in the Message Subject: Age is a terrible thief.

I agree with everyone that losing one's youth gracefully, missing it's benefits, but accepting the limitations of aging is admirable. I understand that there are very robust people who miss the vitality of their youths, and feel great loss.

But the phrase "Age is a terrible thief" sounds like accusation and indictment of aging itself. The phrase insinuates malicious intent by a very natural, if not always pleasant, reality of old age.

It's self-defeating to create an enemy, a thief, out of a natural part of our lifecycles.
That's what I was responding to.

IBIS



I don't think it's always easy to age gracefully in our society today. We don't always value our elderly and the wisdom and experience they can provide to us. We don't always take care of our elderly either. (I'm not speaking on a personal level here, I'm speaking in general) If that's the message we're sending than it seems like it would be very easy to think of aging as an enemy instead of a natural reality.


It may be a natural part of our life cycle but I have no problem saying age is a thief either. It robs us of who we knew, through diseases such as Alheimers and such. It robs us of them through death. And death is natural, but I can still call it a thief , not because of some implied maliciousness in it, but because of the aspect of thief meaning taking something from me that I did not want taken. I feel it robbing me of physical things at my age and yes I may find other things to do, but that doesnt mean the things gone arent gone anymore, they are. On a lighter note about it, I wish age would stop taking my boobs further down to the floor!! lol, no, they wont reach, dont go there, I am just saying I hate that age is robbing my body of its "perkiness"! And dont give me that gravity talk, there was gravity when I was 20 too LOL. :smileywink:


p.s. I came back to say, I want everyone to understand that I am talking about the "aging process" not about the "aged person", they are very different things. I do not devalue people for aging or think less of older people, quite the contrary. I am talking about the aging process as a thief and that process can be a thief. Process have no conscious intent, so its not malicious, thats why it can be both natural and a seen as a thief.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 12-16-2007 05:59 PM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"



IBIS wrote:
I was responding to the phrase in the Message Subject: Age is a terrible thief.

I agree with everyone that losing one's youth gracefully, missing it's benefits, but accepting the limitations of aging is admirable. I understand that there are very robust people who miss the vitality of their youths, and feel great loss.

But the phrase "Age is a terrible thief" sounds like accusation and indictment of aging itself. The phrase insinuates malicious intent by a very natural, if not always pleasant, reality of old age.

It's self-defeating to create an enemy, a thief, out of a natural part of our lifecycles.
That's what I was responding to.

IBIS




Yes aging is a natural cycle that every person has to endure if they live long enought. This is God's plan and its a learning process also. We think of all the things we didn't do or couldn't do but still we shouldnot think harshly about aging. Its a fact of life and shouldnt be made slight of. A terrible thief, I do not feel that. And I am well on my way.But I guess we do see it as a terrible thief because we do not want to get older and not live actively. But life has its drawbacks, maybe that is just one of them. I will take that with the rest of my life that has been wonderful. I have suffered many heartaches and pain but life all and all has been good.
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IBIS
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"

Kiakar, you're attitude towards aging is a wonderful one. What you wrote, "I have suffered many heartaches and pain but life all and all has been good" ... is a wonderful take of the life you were given.

One of my favorite poets, T.S. Eliot mourned that some of us ended our lives, not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Jacob's taking his last chance on joining the circus is a life-affirming action... he ended his amazing life with a victorious BANG.

I think we all wish that for ourselves.

IBIS
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006
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Re: Favorite Passages?

This is not my favorite passage, it's just such a profound thought that I just cannot get it out of my head.

Chapter 11: Jacob's memory of his night with Barbara and Nell keeps haunting him, "The more distressing the memory, the more persistent its presence."



Because of a tradegy concerning a friend this past year, I find that this quote rings true for me. He pops into my mind at the most unlikely of times. It's invasive and persistent and I really don't like it.
Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
The Uncommon Reader


"You've been running around naked in the stacks again, haven't you?"
"Um, maybe."
The Time Traveler's Wife

It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
Voltaire
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Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006
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Re: Favorite Passages?

I may be talking to myself out here because I'm so far behind but here goes. This passage, I like alot, Chapter 11: Jacob ponders running away from the circus "No matter what I did last night, I cannot leave these animals. I am their shepard, their protector. And it's more than a duty. It's a covenant with my father"
Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
The Uncommon Reader


"You've been running around naked in the stacks again, haven't you?"
"Um, maybe."
The Time Traveler's Wife

It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
Voltaire
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
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Re: "Age is a terrible thief"



IBIS wrote:
Kiakar, you're attitude towards aging is a wonderful one. What you wrote, "I have suffered many heartaches and pain but life all and all has been good" ... is a wonderful take of the life you were given.

One of my favorite poets, T.S. Eliot mourned that some of us ended our lives, not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Jacob's taking his last chance on joining the circus is a life-affirming action... he ended his amazing life with a victorious BANG.

I think we all wish that for ourselves.

IBIS




You are so right IBIS; Jacob was so bored and solemn because life was taken away from him. I think the idea of the circus, awoke his senses to a lively scenio in the last days of his life. That is true. Life has to be accepted for what it is. No one has promised us happiness always. And its true you can make your own happiness and if saddness lights on you , just brush it aside and think happy thoughts. The older I get the more I have learned this is the only way to be happy and really enjoy life. Accept what life is.You have to work at it.
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vivico1
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Re: Favorite Passages?


Carmenere_lady wrote:
This is not my favorite passage, it's just such a profound thought that I just cannot get it out of my head.

Chapter 11: Jacob's memory of his night with Barbara and Nell keeps haunting him, "The more distressing the memory, the more persistent its presence."



Because of a tradegy concerning a friend this past year, I find that this quote rings true for me. He pops into my mind at the most unlikely of times. It's invasive and persistent and I really don't like it.


LyndaSue,
you said he pops in your mind at the most unlikely times and it bothers you. If its ok to ask, is it bad things that pop into your head about him, or just thoughts about him, or memories of things about him that are not unpleasant? If its just thoughts of him, general thoughts but he is dead now and having him just pop into your head at odd times bothers you, dont let it. Think of it the same way you would with a friend who is still alive. I don't know about you but I often have thoughts of friends pop into my mind at odd times, especially friends I can't or don't see these days. I don't find them intrusive but rather just that comforting thing of making someone part of your everyday life even when they arent there. If its a bad memory, or one about his death, maybe if when those thoughts pop into your mind, you can use that moment of thinking about him, and turn it to a good memory of him since your thinking about him right then anyway. Let the good, replace the bad and then you will welcome those little unexpected visits in your thoughts, of a dear friend. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006
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Re: Favorite Passages?

[ Edited ]
If its a bad memory, or one about his death, maybe if when those thoughts pop into your mind, you can use that moment of thinking about him, and turn it to a good memory of him since your thinking about him right then anyway. Let the good, replace the bad and then you will welcome those little unexpected visits in your thoughts, of a dear friend. :smileywink:




Thanks for your kind words Vivian, maybe eventually the good memories will come back, but I'm still trying to understand the why.

Message Edited by Carmenere_lady on 12-27-2007 07:21 AM
Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
The Uncommon Reader


"You've been running around naked in the stacks again, haven't you?"
"Um, maybe."
The Time Traveler's Wife

It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
Voltaire
Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: Favorite Passages?


Carmenere_lady wrote:

If its a bad memory, or one about his death, maybe if when those thoughts pop into your mind, you can use that moment of thinking about him, and turn it to a good memory of him since your thinking about him right then anyway. Let the good, replace the bad and then you will welcome those little unexpected visits in your thoughts, of a dear friend. :smileywink:




Thanks for your kind words Vivian, maybe eventually the good memories will come back, but I'm still trying to understand the why.

LyndaSue -- Hard as it may be, may you find the courage to endure your grieving. As one of my scientist friends writes, there is the domain of the unknowable.

If you have some library time, you may want to browse the shelf with books on grieving. I have found some of them and their suggestions helpful. Journaling is useful to some, as, of course, can be sharing, as you have had the courage to do here and may do in different places and ways with others.
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Favorite Passages?


Carmenere_lady wrote:
If its a bad memory, or one about his death, maybe if when those thoughts pop into your mind, you can use that moment of thinking about him, and turn it to a good memory of him since your thinking about him right then anyway. Let the good, replace the bad and then you will welcome those little unexpected visits in your thoughts, of a dear friend. :smileywink:




Thanks for your kind words Vivian, maybe eventually the good memories will come back, but I'm still trying to understand the why.

Message Edited by Carmenere_lady on 12-27-2007 07:21 AM


LyndaSue,
Do you read Christmas books? I didnt even know what they were until this year. Have you read the Christmas Shoes and the follow up The Christmas Blessing? These books are small and only about 130-200 pages long, an afternoon read per book. If you have not read them, I would suggest you read these two. They are sad, they will make you cry, but sometimes we need to. But in them, the mother tells the son something very important about dying that by the second book, he really finally understands. They are wonderful books. If you have read them, reread the first one now and see what you think, or both. :smileywink: Vivian
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Inspired Correspondent
Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Favorite Passages?


Carmenere_lady wrote:
If its a bad memory, or one about his death, maybe if when those thoughts pop into your mind, you can use that moment of thinking about him, and turn it to a good memory of him since your thinking about him right then anyway. Let the good, replace the bad and then you will welcome those little unexpected visits in your thoughts, of a dear friend. :smileywink:




Thanks for your kind words Vivian, maybe eventually the good memories will come back, but I'm still trying to understand the why.

Message Edited by Carmenere_lady on 12-27-2007 07:21 AM



LyndaSue,
I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope someday you will have only good memories of your friend. Try not to drive yourself crazy over the "why". That's something we all want to know when faced with a hardship or tragedy but we don't always get the answer. I wish you well.
Inspired Correspondent
Wrighty
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Christmas books


vivico1 wrote:
LyndaSue,
Do you read Christmas books? I didnt even know what they were until this year. Have you read the Christmas Shoes and the follow up The Christmas Blessing? These books are small and only about 130-200 pages long, an afternoon read per book. If you have not read them, I would suggest you read these two. They are sad, they will make you cry, but sometimes we need to. But in them, the mother tells the son something very important about dying that by the second book, he really finally understands. They are wonderful books. If you have read them, reread the first one now and see what you think, or both. :smileywink: Vivian



Vivian,
So glad you've been enjoying Christmas books! They grab you by the heartstrings don't they? I always like to read them, especially over the holidays of course but they're good other times as well. Christmas is over but I'm still reading them now. :smileyhappy:
Distinguished Wordsmith
Carmenere_lady
Posts: 529
Registered: ‎11-05-2006
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Re: Vivian, IBIS, Wrighty

Thanks, ladies, for all of your kind words, thoughts and suggestions.
Best wishes for a wonderful new year packed with lots of great books and lots of leisure time to read them!!! :smileyhappy:
Lynda

"I think of literature.....as a vast country to the far borders of which I am journeying but will never reach."
The Uncommon Reader


"You've been running around naked in the stacks again, haven't you?"
"Um, maybe."
The Time Traveler's Wife

It is with books as with men; a very small number play a great part.
Voltaire
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Christmas books


Wrighty wrote:

vivico1 wrote:
LyndaSue,
Do you read Christmas books? I didnt even know what they were until this year. Have you read the Christmas Shoes and the follow up The Christmas Blessing? These books are small and only about 130-200 pages long, an afternoon read per book. If you have not read them, I would suggest you read these two. They are sad, they will make you cry, but sometimes we need to. But in them, the mother tells the son something very important about dying that by the second book, he really finally understands. They are wonderful books. If you have read them, reread the first one now and see what you think, or both. :smileywink: Vivian



Vivian,
So glad you've been enjoying Christmas books! They grab you by the heartstrings don't they? I always like to read them, especially over the holidays of course but they're good other times as well. Christmas is over but I'm still reading them now. :smileyhappy:


I really liked those three Wrighty, they really are very good short books. Lots of things to take away from them. Dot's was fun but the other three were really special. They are on my list of books as you will see in email. :smileywink: Wished I had another one now to read till the Riverton book comes lol.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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