First Impressions

[KathyS]

If you can't take the water to the Elephant, what language do you use to take the elephant to the water? Did you figure it out?
This was an interesting cunundrum.

---

Frank_W wrote:
Thanks Vivian.

I saw your post after I edited my original post.
It's cool to see that our sources match! =)
I think it's easier to bring the elephant to
the water, than the water to the elephant.

---

[KathyS]

Hi, Pepper,
This book was recommended by someone on one of these boards, don't know who, or where, but I bought it. Must have been a good recommend! I may make lists of recommended novels, but I don't always buy them.....I did set it aside, but as soon as I picked it up, as someone said....dusted it off....I read the first few pages, and it was the dynamic writing that hooked me in. Fast paced, it reached out and grabbed me, and I was hooked. It was a, 'I had to know', kind of read, also.

There was a sympathetic feeling I was getting from this main character, right off the bat. I wanted to know more about him....I wanted him to be okay with whatever happened in his life. And we certainly found out about ALL parts of it! He captured me from the first moment. Yes, some difficult times to read about, and get through, but survivor is the word that comes to mind for all of these characters who lived their lives during that time. I like stories about survival.

It's all of what you said, Pepper, and more.

[kiakar]

---

KathyS wrote:
Hi, Pepper,
This book was recommended by someone on one of these boards, don't know who, or where, but I bought it. Must have been a good recommend! I may make lists of recommended novels, but I don't always buy them.....I did set it aside, but as soon as I picked it up, as someone said....dusted it off....I read the first few pages, and it was the dynamic writing that hooked me in. Fast paced, it reached out and grabbed me, and I was hooked. It was a, 'I had to know', kind of read, also.

There was a sympathetic feeling I was getting from this main character, right off the bat. I wanted to know more about him....I wanted him to be okay with whatever happened in his life. And we certainly found out about ALL parts of it! He captured me from the first moment. Yes, some difficult times to read about, and get through, but survivor is the word that comes to mind for all of these characters who lived their lives during that time. I like stories about survival.

It's all of what you said, Pepper, and more.

---

Maybe you caught my raves. I posted all over about how great it was. Now it is satisfying to know I wasn't loco cause everyone else is enjoying it. I never really liked stories of the circus either but I had also heard it was great, the language describing all things and how they function through out the circus. That I just fell right in and now I feel better I have read a full account of a "circus." There are parts you have to really concetrate on, but it is well worth it when you get over half way. Its like life, the going sometimes is hard but the end is paradise. That is truly my feeling for this book.

[KathyS]

Hi, Linda ~ The funny thing about this book, is, I started to read it...got really into it, but about a third of the way through, my daughter picked it up off my table and started to read. ...anyway, she got so engrossed in it, she didn't want to put it back down!.....in the meantime, I read another book....

When I finally got this book back, the next week, I was sitting by our pool talking with someone about what books we were reading. She said she had read this book, too, and loved it....then I was talking to a friend of mine, that same week - she had read it, and loved it! I finally finished the book, and loved it, too.

It could have been on your recommendation, or a million other peoples! Sounds like everyone has read it! LOL

Kathy

Message Edited by KathyS on 11-30-2007 09:06 AM

[Wrighty]

---

kiakar wrote:
Maybe you caught my raves. I posted all over about how great it was. Now it is satisfying to know I wasn't loco cause everyone else is enjoying it. I never really liked stories of the circus either but I had also heard it was great, the language describing all things and how they function through out the circus. That I just fell right in and now I feel better I have read a full account of a "circus." There are parts you have to really concetrate on, but it is well worth it when you get over half way. Its like life, the going sometimes is hard but the end is paradise. That is truly my feeling for this book.

---

Your recommendation is what led me to this book Linda. I heard about it often but I didn't know anyone else who had read it yet. You said you really liked it so I picked it up just before this club was announced. Perfect timing and I loved the book. Now I'm telling everyone about it too!

[katknit]

---

IBIS wrote:
I've never been a circus fan. I've always felt badly for the animals in the circus acts. No matter how well trained their acts are, the acts always seemed forced and unnatural to me. And when the Las Vegas white tiger attacked its poor trainer, that clinched it for me.pages!

---

I'm with you, Ibis. The circus is no place for animals. I read Water for Elephants but because the animal cruelty scenes bothered me so much, I didn't really enjoy it very much. And the tawdriness got to me after a while.

[vivico1]

---

katknit wrote:

---

IBIS wrote:
I've never been a circus fan. I've always felt badly for the animals in the circus acts. No matter how well trained their acts are, the acts always seemed forced and unnatural to me. And when the Las Vegas white tiger attacked its poor trainer, that clinched it for me.pages!

---

I'm with you, Ibis. The circus is no place for animals. I read Water for Elephants but because the animal cruelty scenes bothered me so much, I didn't really enjoy it very much. And the tawdriness got to me after a while.

---

I agree about the animal cruelty but that line made me giggle, its a good one, should be on a t-shirt! "The circus is no place for animals." so true lol.

[katknit]

I agree about the animal cruelty but that line made me giggle, its a good one, should be on a t-shirt! "The circus is no place for animals." so true lol.

---

[cindersue]

No two persons ever read the same book. [Edmund Wilson]

Isn't that the truth, Katknit!

Message Edited by cindersue on 12-02-2007 11:52 PM

[Wrighty]

---

katknit wrote:

---

IBIS wrote:
I've never been a circus fan. I've always felt badly for the animals in the circus acts. No matter how well trained their acts are, the acts always seemed forced and unnatural to me. And when the Las Vegas white tiger attacked its poor trainer, that clinched it for me.pages!

---

I'm with you, Ibis. The circus is no place for animals. I read Water for Elephants but because the animal cruelty scenes bothered me so much, I didn't really enjoy it very much. And the tawdriness got to me after a while.

---

The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

[vivico1]

---

Wrighty wrote:

---

katknit wrote:

---

IBIS wrote:
I've never been a circus fan. I've always felt badly for the animals in the circus acts. No matter how well trained their acts are, the acts always seemed forced and unnatural to me. And when the Las Vegas white tiger attacked its poor trainer, that clinched it for me.pages!

---

I'm with you, Ibis. The circus is no place for animals. I read Water for Elephants but because the animal cruelty scenes bothered me so much, I didn't really enjoy it very much. And the tawdriness got to me after a while.

---

The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

---

Wrighty, there's an interesting observation. I wonder if its really true, or is it that we tend to get more upset with cruelty to animals that we notice it more than cruelty to humans because we are in some respects desensitized to the violence in the world now. I have a feeling that if you really started numbering the scenes of violence or cruelty to humans in the story they will out weight the numbers you hear about the animals. It reminds me of how some laws still can do more to someone convicted of animal cruelty than of say, battery to a human. There are rapists who have gotten off lighter than those actually brought into court over animals. Neither is acceptable but there is something wrong in that.

I just reread this, and did you mean, the cruelty to humans didnt bother you as much as to animals? or did you mean, there were scenes of cruelty to humans but not as many as there were of animals? I took it as the latter at first, but either way, I guess its still about desensitization huh.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 12-08-2007 12:12 AM

[Wrighty]

---

vivico1 wrote:

---

Wrighty wrote:
The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

---

Wrighty, there's an interesting observation. I wonder if its really true, or is it that we tend to get more upset with cruelty to animals that we notice it more than cruelty to humans because we are in some respects desensitized to the violence in the world now. I have a feeling that if you really started numbering the scenes of violence or cruelty to humans in the story they will out weight the numbers you hear about the animals. It reminds me of how some laws still can do more to someone convicted of animal cruelty than of say, battery to a human. There are rapists who have gotten off lighter than those actually brought into court over animals. Neither is acceptable but there is something wrong in that.

I just reread this, and did you mean, the cruelty to humans didnt bother you as much as to animals? or did you mean, there were scenes of cruelty to humans but not as many as there were of animals? I took it as the latter at first, but either way, I guess its still about desensitization huh.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 12-08-2007 12:12 AM

---

I meant the first one, the animal cruelty in the story seemed to bother me more and you're right it is about being desensitized. Does anyone else ever feel that way? The human cruelty was horrific and also bothered me but it seems so common in our media, in our world in general, that I'm used to hearing about it. The animals seem more innocent and defenseless also. They don't often get the chance to fight back. I do feel that all of the cruelty served a purpose in the story though as harsh as it was. I'm glad I read this book.

[vivico1]

---

Wrighty wrote:

---

vivico1 wrote:

---

Wrighty wrote:
The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

---

Wrighty, there's an interesting observation. I wonder if its really true, or is it that we tend to get more upset with cruelty to animals that we notice it more than cruelty to humans because we are in some respects desensitized to the violence in the world now. I have a feeling that if you really started numbering the scenes of violence or cruelty to humans in the story they will out weight the numbers you hear about the animals. It reminds me of how some laws still can do more to someone convicted of animal cruelty than of say, battery to a human. There are rapists who have gotten off lighter than those actually brought into court over animals. Neither is acceptable but there is something wrong in that.

I just reread this, and did you mean, the cruelty to humans didnt bother you as much as to animals? or did you mean, there were scenes of cruelty to humans but not as many as there were of animals? I took it as the latter at first, but either way, I guess its still about desensitization huh.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 12-08-2007 12:12 AM

---

I meant the first one, the animal cruelty in the story seemed to bother me more and you're right it is about being desensitized. Does anyone else ever feel that way? The human cruelty was horrific and also bothered me but it seems so common in our media, in our world in general, that I'm used to hearing about it. The animals seem more innocent and defenseless also. They don't often get the chance to fight back. I do feel that all of the cruelty served a purpose in the story though as harsh as it was. I'm glad I read this book.

---

Yeah, its like the old disclaimers in movies "no animals were harmed in the making of this film", but no disclaimers for the body count of hundreds lol. I agree the cruelty was important to share in the book, or else we are stuck with our wonderful circus illusions still. I really did like the book too. It was very good.

[katknit]

There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story.


Hi Wrighty,

I think we are so affected by cruelty to children and animals b/c they are more helpless and trusting than adults, and that makes them even more vulnerable and victimized.
Linda

[ELee]

Wrighty wrote:
"The human cruelty was horrific and also bothered me but it seems so common in our media, in our world in general, that I'm used to hearing about it."

I would definitely agree. The repetitive nature of media presentation of "the latest story" is a huge contributor to desensitization. All you have to do is watch a local news channel from, say, 6-7am on a weekday morning to realize that. If the breaking news entails something within the realm of human cruelty, you will hear about it and/or see footage of it at least five or six times during that hour. Sometimes they will even run the same footage two or three times in a row while a newscaster reads the story. After a while, it becomes increasingly easier to just "tune it out".

[KathyS]

Yes, it was hard to read some of those moments in history, in this story, when the animals were treated badly, as well as the humans. The inhumanness was inexcusable. I wanted to help all of them in some way, but I knew couldn't...it's helplessness that we feel, and I felt this helplessness from Jacob, also. It was either his life, or theirs, at those times.

With novels like these, it makes us aware of this cruelty.
Now we are can see these horrid situations, in black and white, and find ways for these true stories in our history to change for the better.

The news media is good, and bad. After hearing a negative report once, I want to shut the TV off....after the weather report!

Something repeated so often, does desensitize, as you've stated, and you to it's impact; but it also can drill into our brain, that these things are important, and need to be dealt with, addressed, and hopefully not ignored.

[kiakar]

---

Wrighty wrote:

---

katknit wrote:

---

IBIS wrote:
I've never been a circus fan. I've always felt badly for the animals in the circus acts. No matter how well trained their acts are, the acts always seemed forced and unnatural to me. And when the Las Vegas white tiger attacked its poor trainer, that clinched it for me.pages!

---

I'm with you, Ibis. The circus is no place for animals. I read Water for Elephants but because the animal cruelty scenes bothered me so much, I didn't really enjoy it very much. And the tawdriness got to me after a while.

---

The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

---

I was equally touched by the cruelty of the animals and the humans in this story. But this story may not be true, but it probably did happen alot especially the animal part.

[vivico1]

---

kiakar wrote:

---

Wrighty wrote:

The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

---

I was equally touched by the cruelty of the animals and the humans in this story. But this story may not be true, but it probably did happen alot especially the animal part.

---

Kiaker, I think the illusion is that it didn't happen alot. I think the reality is, this book is really about the "norm" of these circuses. If you can handle it, go to the circus trivia thread and find the one with the website about them. There is a video link on there and you will see, both what August did all the time, but then also,what Rosie wound up doing. Its graphic tho, so you know ahead of time.

[kiakar]

---

vivico1 wrote:

---

kiakar wrote:

---

Wrighty wrote:

The animal cruelty really bothered me too, I hated it, but I still liked the story. There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story. It didn't feel like it was just for entertainment purposes it was part of the theme. Everyone endured such hardships and struggled so much to survive. It was a bitter, brutal life at that time, not the pretty life the circus portrayed.

---

I was equally touched by the cruelty of the animals and the humans in this story. But this story may not be true, but it probably did happen alot especially the animal part.

---

Kiaker, I think the illusion is that it didn't happen alot. I think the reality is, this book is really about the "norm" of these circuses. If you can handle it, go to the circus trivia thread and find the one with the website about them. There is a video link on there and you will see, both what August did all the time, but then also,what Rosie wound up doing. Its graphic tho, so you know ahead of time.

---

Will do, thanks!

[Wrighty]

---

katknit wrote:
There was also a lot of cruelty to humans that bothered me (although usually not as much as the animals. I wonder why that is?) but I did feel that it was part of the story.


Hi Wrighty,

I think we are so affected by cruelty to children and animals b/c they are more helpless and trusting than adults, and that makes them even more vulnerable and victimized.
Linda

---

************Possible Spoilers**************************************
You're right, they are more vulnerable and should be protected. Another thing that stood out to me was how hard it was to survive during the depression. People were literally starving because they couldn't find jobs. They were skinny, dirty, homeless, jobless, sick - these were the worst cases but it hit people hard. They would do almost anything to survive. That was hard for me to think about because that was a reality of that time period. These people were struggling so much already and then some of them were forced to endure the cruelty of their employers and other "bullies". And that was just torture for the sake of their own sick pleasure. It was unnecessary and only added to the victims woes. How much can they take before they give up? And to add even more to their misery, those that were inflicting the harm also lived an opulent life with an abundance of luxury. They flaunted their wealth, fine foods and clothes instead of using it to help those that were so desperately in need of aid. They allowed others to suffer, they caused others to suffer and enjoyed it. The victims were a source of entertainment. That was sickening to me and I wanted those people to suffer instead. The author did a great job of creating scenes that stirred up my emotions so much.