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vivico1
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Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers

Hey guys, I wanted to see what your experience or thoughts are about these three "important" parts of train circus life it seems. I have been to sideshow circuses, not train ones but those that travel on the road I guess. When I was younger anyway. There still are some little sideshows that set up here and there, or more of carnivals instead of Circuses really. Do you think Patches still exist? Do you think these carnivals have men who, if they see unhappy customers starting to get rowdy, take them aside and smooth things out with them so theres no trouble for the carnival/circus? I have seen more actual security guards I think, that will just escort you flat out, but when I was a kid, I do remember seeing some carnies hustling a guy off somewhere. I thought, rather than smoothing things out, they might be going to beat the guy up and toss him. I don't know now.

Sometimes they smoothed things out with a girl like Barbara, who did as it said, "special after the show, personal shows" or basically prostitution. They sure lined up in here. Do you think in these shows now there are women with the carnival or circus itself, who are paid prostitutes for the show? I think probably some prostitutes hang around these places but I am wondering if anyone knows or thinks there may be some who come with the shows, as in the book. (Side note on Barbara, for what she did as a show and after, she still was a kind of sympathetic character and did care about Jacob and even Marlena when she got hurt. Sometimes we forget that behind this kind of objectifying women, is a real person or we judge the woman for what she does. Don't you think?)

As for the 8 pagers, I found that an interesting name for this kind of porn and looked it up. I found this info on them, don't worry, no porn pics or stuff, just describing what they were. Where I looked first were sites to sell them LOL, didnt want to put that here, but found from the listings, not the sites, didnt go there, was that they were also called tijuana bibles, and using that, I found this page on Wikipedia about them that is suitable for here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_bibles

These were about the first porn, or "Playboys" lol ever printed I guess. I find it interesting that they used political persons or well known cartoon characters for their characters. Yeah, I am curious for that reason to see one but oh well LOL. You know, it must have gotten real lonely on those train rides from place to place when you were a single man, tho Jacob was familiar with them even before the circus lol. I felt sorry for kinko, when Jacob caught him "reading". In a way, it was just showing another side of how the workers were dehumanized too, not so much by reading them, tho I am anti porn, but because they had no privacy, were stuck in train cars with animals just trying to find a place to be, and someone's most private moments, never really were.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Frank_W
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers

I think security guards may be the "patches" of today. Uncle Al was unscrupulous in many ways and needed security.

I think this book would have been just fine if the author didn't describe Barbara's prostitution as much as she did, and young Jacob walking in on Kinko "reading". I understand that the author's research on circuses at the time of the depression may have included parts about sexuality, but I don't think the book was made better by including it. In some ways this book was one of the best I've ever read, especially how the prologue played out. But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family.
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IBIS
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers

Frank_W, that's an interesting perspective about the sexual slant in WATER.

The book does a fine job of contrasting illusion and reality... the illusion of August's charm and dashing good looks concealed the reality of an abuser and emotional monster.

The old photos of the circus gave the illusion of "respectability"... townspeople came dressed in their Sunday's best, and the announcers hawking the highlights of the BIG TOP were dressed in suits and hats... which in turn concealed the "carnival-esque" seedy sideshows.

Circus performances focuses very strongly on the human body... its training and athleticisms of the acts, as well as the reversals of our common assumptions of human sexuality...comparing traditional views of feminity with bearded and fat ladies... comparing standard masculine prototypes with the strong-man and effeminate antics of male clowns.

I thought Barbara and Walter sexualities was in sharp contrast to the glamourous August and Marlena, who as "stars" of the circus were the poster couple; and yet we must wonder about their marital life. They didn't have children, yet within weeks of Jacob's company, Marlena gets pregnant.

I would recommend this book to family and friends if they were 15 or older.

IBIS
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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vivico1
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers


Frank_W wrote:
I think security guards may be the "patches" of today. Uncle Al was unscrupulous in many ways and needed security.

I think this book would have been just fine if the author didn't describe Barbara's prostitution as much as she did, and young Jacob walking in on Kinko "reading". I understand that the author's research on circuses at the time of the depression may have included parts about sexuality, but I don't think the book was made better by including it. In some ways this book was one of the best I've ever read, especially how the prologue played out. But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family.


I think she really wanted to show that seedy side we dont know about, that reality that would shock us if we knew. Is it necessary to the book? Probably not. The mentioning of 8 pagers was a part of history of the time I didnt know about, but did he have to walk in on Kinko, no, but it again showed the lack of privacy on the circus trains and the dehumanizing of them. What about the ones making love, no make that, having sex right out in the open in the hobo camps and others just watching, or taking turns. But, I can see where you are coming from and it would not take away from the book, to leave that out. She could have left in the mention of 8 pagers but the walking in on Kinko wasnt necessary. I don't know what to do about Barbara, actually, best I remember now is, she didnt go into graphic detail about her prostituting on the side, for the circus. I think it just talked about the men lined up for her "personal shows" and left at that, we know whats shes doing but the bigger issue, if its taking out the sexual scenes is not that we know she is a prostitute, its the graphic description of her circus ACT and how she could swing her body parts around, etc etc. How do you describe what Barbara's act is in the circus, without describing it and the affect it had, without just leaving her out as a character? I really don't know. I do agree that there are many of my friends that I couldnt recommend this book too because of these things but a couple would be just as upset with the violence of it.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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kiakar
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers



IBIS wrote:
Frank_W, that's an interesting perspective about the sexual slant in WATER.

The book does a fine job of contrasting illusion and reality... the illusion of August's charm and dashing good looks concealed the reality of an abuser and emotional monster.

The old photos of the circus gave the illusion of "respectability"... townspeople came dressed in their Sunday's best, and the announcers hawking the highlights of the BIG TOP were dressed in suits and hats... which in turn concealed the "carnival-esque" seedy sideshows.

Circus performances focuses very strongly on the human body... its training and athleticisms of the acts, as well as the reversals of our common assumptions of human sexuality...comparing traditional views of feminity with bearded and fat ladies... comparing standard masculine prototypes with the strong-man and effeminate antics of male clowns.

I thought Barbara and Walter sexualities was in sharp contrast to the glamourous August and Marlena, who as "stars" of the circus were the poster couple; and yet we must wonder about their marital life. They didn't have children, yet within weeks of Jacob's company, Marlena gets pregnant.

I would recommend this book to family and friends if they were 15 or older.

IBIS




Yes, Frank, because Sex and Prositution are part of the past and the present. Why shouldn't people read about it, its real and its real to Sarah Gruen's book. It happened didn't it. It really makes it non dislusional when you talk about it and when you do not, the reality of destruction doesn't come to the surface. For many people were abused including Barbaras. So why not know about the past, history is to help live better in the future, right? Well, this history Sarah ribbed up could help people treat people like human beings and not dirt. Of course, all books should be considered by parents before a child reads them. I will even go a year up and say sixteen. But this is life, why hide the fact that we are all human but can make better choices on how we live our lives and how we treat others.
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ELee
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers

Frank_W wrote:

"But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family."

I'm not sure if you meant "overly" or "overtly": the second I would agree with, the first I wouldn't. The subjects of prostitution and sexuality were introduced in the story, but not to excess by any means. I can understand your reservations, but for me their mention adds depth, dimension and contrast to the whole experience. For many of the less reputable shows, women like Barbara were just another performer, as much a part of the circus as any of the other acts. What saved it for me was Jacob's perspective; being innocent of such goings-on, his description is innocently realistic and written with a great sense of humor. Walter's "encounter" forced us to see him as a young man with human impulses/needs. As a dwarf, the general public would dehumanize him as another one of the circus "freaks".
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vivico1
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers


ELee wrote:
Frank_W wrote:

"But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family."

I'm not sure if you meant "overly" or "overtly": the second I would agree with, the first I wouldn't. The subjects of prostitution and sexuality were introduced in the story, but not to excess by any means. I can understand your reservations, but for me their mention adds depth, dimension and contrast to the whole experience. For many of the less reputable shows, women like Barbara were just another performer, as much a part of the circus as any of the other acts.


I think it may have more to do with actual language and descriptions of acts than the mentioning of them happening. For example, the vivid description of Barbara's show act, with, well see I can't even use the words in here so that shows you, they arent appropriate to all readers, of any age, but you know how graphically he describes it. Also there was a lot of use of the F word. Since I am a huge movie buff, its like the difference in a movie being rated R for say the violence of war in it, verses a really excellent movie being rated R, because of all the foul language and then some sex scene just to get the rating that really, the movie would have been great without it but now you wouldnt take younger ones to it and many adults would be offended by the language and sex. That's what I am thinking may be the objection to this book. Heck you can say Barbara is a prostitute a hundred times and that men line up at her tent after the shows for so much a pop and I get it, and thats ok. But like when you describe in very sexual terms her act and all the swinging of the body parts I cant even say in here and all the things that went on in that scene, you just went from PG13 to a heavy R with all the language to boot that now, some people will be offended by and it gets in the way of a really excellent story. I do understand what they are saying and there are a lot of my friends who I could not recommend it to for this reason, well I could but they would stop reading it. I have heard of some people who did anyway.

That makes me wonder, do any of you think books should have a rating system like movies do now? Just to help out the readers ahead of time? I know writers sure wouldnt want it lol, but actually it is paying off in the movie industry. Some want that PG13 rating because there is big bucks in like adventure movies if the kids can go too. Others that are dramas, want that R rating to make a more of a serious adult film or to actually bring in some of the teens, who think PG13 isnt as cool. Movie companies know their audiences and make their films accordingly and also edit accordingly to keep the best effect but get the biggest buck. Parents and people who just dont like their ears bombarded with F this and F that, or explicit sexual scenes, are helped by the ratings too. I wonder how that would go over in the book business. This is one of those books that people have turned away from because of that or as you see won't recommend it because of that. And this is fiction, its not like changing the language or leaving out some scenes would be misrepresenting the truth. Like in the movie Schindler's List, ok you see a lot of naked bodies, because you see how they choose the healthy from the unhealthy and you see the bodies off those in the camps or the dead bodies and its horrifying but its a true life story that people really need to know and see and feel. But to give an example in that of one scene that didnt need to be there, you don't have to see the naked bodies of the mistresses getting dressed or laying in bed smoking. The men aren't. We know they are mistresses, we dont need that,that is gratuitous sex scenes where the other, the camps, were not.

I don't think this book would be diminished one bit by not describing Barbara's act in the way it was, or leaving out the F words, not one bit and then it would be one that a lot more people would recommend or finish reading. To say well its real, well yeah but it was not an actual true story and it isnt what made the book anyway. I am not saying leave Barbara out or pretty up who she is. I am just saying, its ok to tell us shes a prostitute on the side and they are lined up to let us know what crap goes on even more on the side but for the stuff like her act, Sara is a good enough writer to let us know what she did without giving us a "written show". Actually, that whole part, was in many ways, an "8 pager" I guess. Anyway, its just a thought.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Frank_W
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers

Great post IBIS! Thanks. =)
Illusion vs reality is an interesting contrast to take a look at.
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Frank_W
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers

Vivian, I think this is a great topic for discussion. Thanks.

You said in a later post: "I think it may have more to do with actual language and descriptions of acts than the mentioning of them happening."

That describes what I'm thinking.
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Popper19
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers



vivico1 wrote:

ELee wrote:
Frank_W wrote:

"But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family."

I'm not sure if you meant "overly" or "overtly": the second I would agree with, the first I wouldn't. The subjects of prostitution and sexuality were introduced in the story, but not to excess by any means. I can understand your reservations, but for me their mention adds depth, dimension and contrast to the whole experience. For many of the less reputable shows, women like Barbara were just another performer, as much a part of the circus as any of the other acts.


I think it may have more to do with actual language and descriptions of acts than the mentioning of them happening. For example, the vivid description of Barbara's show act, with, well see I can't even use the words in here so that shows you, they arent appropriate to all readers, of any age, but you know how graphically he describes it. Also there was a lot of use of the F word. Since I am a huge movie buff, its like the difference in a movie being rated R for say the violence of war in it, verses a really excellent movie being rated R, because of all the foul language and then some sex scene just to get the rating that really, the movie would have been great without it but now you wouldnt take younger ones to it and many adults would be offended by the language and sex. That's what I am thinking may be the objection to this book. Heck you can say Barbara is a prostitute a hundred times and that men line up at her tent after the shows for so much a pop and I get it, and thats ok. But like when you describe in very sexual terms her act and all the swinging of the body parts I cant even say in here and all the things that went on in that scene, you just went from PG13 to a heavy R with all the language to boot that now, some people will be offended by and it gets in the way of a really excellent story. I do understand what they are saying and there are a lot of my friends who I could not recommend it to for this reason, well I could but they would stop reading it. I have heard of some people who did anyway.

That makes me wonder, do any of you think books should have a rating system like movies do now? Just to help out the readers ahead of time? I know writers sure wouldnt want it lol, but actually it is paying off in the movie industry. Some want that PG13 rating because there is big bucks in like adventure movies if the kids can go too. Others that are dramas, want that R rating to make a more of a serious adult film or to actually bring in some of the teens, who think PG13 isnt as cool. Movie companies know their audiences and make their films accordingly and also edit accordingly to keep the best effect but get the biggest buck. Parents and people who just dont like their ears bombarded with F this and F that, or explicit sexual scenes, are helped by the ratings too. I wonder how that would go over in the book business. This is one of those books that people have turned away from because of that or as you see won't recommend it because of that. And this is fiction, its not like changing the language or leaving out some scenes would be misrepresenting the truth. Like in the movie Schindler's List, ok you see a lot of naked bodies, because you see how they choose the healthy from the unhealthy and you see the bodies off those in the camps or the dead bodies and its horrifying but its a true life story that people really need to know and see and feel. But to give an example in that of one scene that didnt need to be there, you don't have to see the naked bodies of the mistresses getting dressed or laying in bed smoking. The men aren't. We know they are mistresses, we dont need that,that is gratuitous sex scenes where the other, the camps, were not.

I don't think this book would be diminished one bit by not describing Barbara's act in the way it was, or leaving out the F words, not one bit and then it would be one that a lot more people would recommend or finish reading. To say well its real, well yeah but it was not an actual true story and it isnt what made the book anyway. I am not saying leave Barbara out or pretty up who she is. I am just saying, its ok to tell us shes a prostitute on the side and they are lined up to let us know what crap goes on even more on the side but for the stuff like her act, Sara is a good enough writer to let us know what she did without giving us a "written show". Actually, that whole part, was in many ways, an "8 pager" I guess. Anyway, its just a thought.


Viv,

Your question on rating books intrigues me. It's something I've thought of often lately as I'm seeing my nieces and young sister-in-law entering their pre-teen and teenage years. I like to promote their reading. I was pretty much allowed to read whatever I wanted as I grew up and I think back to some of the books I read and the sexual content in them and think I better not recommend them to these girls without their parents' consent. My mom also read most of the books I did, so she knew what was in them. I really appreciate her letting me chose my own material. You learn so much by not being restricted in what you read, but how is the content different to read than to actually see on the big screen or even on TV? If I child is a reader and their parents are not or they pick up a book that their parents have not read, there could defintely be content in there that the parents might be shocked to know their child is reading. Of course, when I was growing up I would have been livid if someone tried to tell me what not to read. Furthermore, I would have probably made it a point to find a way to read the restricted material. Now that I am in more of an authoritative figure I've been thinking twice. There are so many books I'd like to recommend to my sister-in-law (she's the most interested in reading), but I'm hesitant because I don't want to offend my parents-in-law. I know I haven't really taken on stand on the question, but I did find it an interesting one and one I am currently struggling with.

Becky
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vivico1
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers


Popper19 wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

ELee wrote:
Frank_W wrote:

"But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family."






That makes me wonder, do any of you think books should have a rating system like movies do now? Just to help out the readers ahead of time? I know writers sure wouldnt want it lol, but actually it is paying off in the movie industry. Some want that PG13 rating because there is big bucks in like adventure movies if the kids can go too. Others that are dramas, want that R rating to make a more of a serious adult film or to actually bring in some of the teens, who think PG13 isnt as cool. Movie companies know their audiences and make their films accordingly and also edit accordingly to keep the best effect but get the biggest buck. Parents and people who just dont like their ears bombarded with F this and F that, or explicit sexual scenes, are helped by the ratings too. I wonder how that would go over in the book business. This is one of those books that people have turned away from because of that or as you see won't recommend it because of that. And this is fiction, its not like changing the language or leaving out some scenes would be misrepresenting the truth. Like in the movie Schindler's List, ok you see a lot of naked bodies, because you see how they choose the healthy from the unhealthy and you see the bodies off those in the camps or the dead bodies and its horrifying but its a true life story that people really need to know and see and feel. But to give an example in that of one scene that didnt need to be there, you don't have to see the naked bodies of the mistresses getting dressed or laying in bed smoking. The men aren't. We know they are mistresses, we dont need that,that is gratuitous sex scenes where the other, the camps, were not.

I don't think this book would be diminished one bit by not describing Barbara's act in the way it was, or leaving out the F words, not one bit and then it would be one that a lot more people would recommend or finish reading. To say well its real, well yeah but it was not an actual true story and it isnt what made the book anyway. I am not saying leave Barbara out or pretty up who she is. I am just saying, its ok to tell us shes a prostitute on the side and they are lined up to let us know what crap goes on even more on the side but for the stuff like her act, Sara is a good enough writer to let us know what she did without giving us a "written show". Actually, that whole part, was in many ways, an "8 pager" I guess. Anyway, its just a thought.


Viv,

Your question on rating books intrigues me. It's something I've thought of often lately as I'm seeing my nieces and young sister-in-law entering their pre-teen and teenage years. I like to promote their reading. I was pretty much allowed to read whatever I wanted as I grew up and I think back to some of the books I read and the sexual content in them and think I better not recommend them to these girls without their parents' consent. My mom also read most of the books I did, so she knew what was in them. I really appreciate her letting me chose my own material. You learn so much by not being restricted in what you read, but how is the content different to read than to actually see on the big screen or even on TV? If I child is a reader and their parents are not or they pick up a book that their parents have not read, there could defintely be content in there that the parents might be shocked to know their child is reading. Of course, when I was growing up I would have been livid if someone tried to tell me what not to read. Furthermore, I would have probably made it a point to find a way to read the restricted material. Now that I am in more of an authoritative figure I've been thinking twice. There are so many books I'd like to recommend to my sister-in-law (she's the most interested in reading), but I'm hesitant because I don't want to offend my parents-in-law. I know I haven't really taken on stand on the question, but I did find it an interesting one and one I am currently struggling with.

Becky


Becky, you can at least make the comparison I guess for those books you want to recommend but are not sure. You could say, hey, I really liked this book but I am warning you, if it were a movie, it would be an R rated one for language and sexual content.

As for making them more enticing for kids if they see them rated, well they said that about the movies too but the rating system works and at least keeps everyone informed. And kids are always going to be enticed by what we say no to, but do we stop being parents or adults and stop saying no, because that might make them want to do it more? I think a lot of parents have just given up their right and duty as the caregiver in areas like drinking, smoking, having sex, because they just say, well, it doesnt matter what I say,they are going to do it anyway, so I would rather them drink here, where I can keep an eye on them, BULL! or why teach abstinance, they are going to have sex anyway, so its just easier to give them a condom, BULL! Its our job as adults to teach our children and the youth, when did it stop being so? Our parents didnt just stop and yeah we may have still done it, but we at least knew it mattered and that it mattered to our parents and it did make us think about our choices and thats still important. Ok, got on a little soapbox there lol but I feel very strongly about the things we are teaching, or should I say not teaching our children by what we DON'T do or say :smileywink:
Kids can't get into R rated without a parent and adults who dont like those kind of movies dont waste their money. And its not like censorship, I am not suggesting not writing certain books or that they have to be written a certain way to be published (like many tv shows are told). I am just saying, give it a simple rating for content.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Popper19
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎07-24-2007
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Re: Patches, "Barbaras" and 8 pagers



vivico1 wrote:

Popper19 wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

ELee wrote:
Frank_W wrote:

"But because the author overly discusses prostitution and sexuality, I can't really recommend the book to friends or family."






That makes me wonder, do any of you think books should have a rating system like movies do now? Just to help out the readers ahead of time? I know writers sure wouldnt want it lol, but actually it is paying off in the movie industry. Some want that PG13 rating because there is big bucks in like adventure movies if the kids can go too. Others that are dramas, want that R rating to make a more of a serious adult film or to actually bring in some of the teens, who think PG13 isnt as cool. Movie companies know their audiences and make their films accordingly and also edit accordingly to keep the best effect but get the biggest buck. Parents and people who just dont like their ears bombarded with F this and F that, or explicit sexual scenes, are helped by the ratings too. I wonder how that would go over in the book business. This is one of those books that people have turned away from because of that or as you see won't recommend it because of that. And this is fiction, its not like changing the language or leaving out some scenes would be misrepresenting the truth. Like in the movie Schindler's List, ok you see a lot of naked bodies, because you see how they choose the healthy from the unhealthy and you see the bodies off those in the camps or the dead bodies and its horrifying but its a true life story that people really need to know and see and feel. But to give an example in that of one scene that didnt need to be there, you don't have to see the naked bodies of the mistresses getting dressed or laying in bed smoking. The men aren't. We know they are mistresses, we dont need that,that is gratuitous sex scenes where the other, the camps, were not.

I don't think this book would be diminished one bit by not describing Barbara's act in the way it was, or leaving out the F words, not one bit and then it would be one that a lot more people would recommend or finish reading. To say well its real, well yeah but it was not an actual true story and it isnt what made the book anyway. I am not saying leave Barbara out or pretty up who she is. I am just saying, its ok to tell us shes a prostitute on the side and they are lined up to let us know what crap goes on even more on the side but for the stuff like her act, Sara is a good enough writer to let us know what she did without giving us a "written show". Actually, that whole part, was in many ways, an "8 pager" I guess. Anyway, its just a thought.


Viv,

Your question on rating books intrigues me. It's something I've thought of often lately as I'm seeing my nieces and young sister-in-law entering their pre-teen and teenage years. I like to promote their reading. I was pretty much allowed to read whatever I wanted as I grew up and I think back to some of the books I read and the sexual content in them and think I better not recommend them to these girls without their parents' consent. My mom also read most of the books I did, so she knew what was in them. I really appreciate her letting me chose my own material. You learn so much by not being restricted in what you read, but how is the content different to read than to actually see on the big screen or even on TV? If I child is a reader and their parents are not or they pick up a book that their parents have not read, there could defintely be content in there that the parents might be shocked to know their child is reading. Of course, when I was growing up I would have been livid if someone tried to tell me what not to read. Furthermore, I would have probably made it a point to find a way to read the restricted material. Now that I am in more of an authoritative figure I've been thinking twice. There are so many books I'd like to recommend to my sister-in-law (she's the most interested in reading), but I'm hesitant because I don't want to offend my parents-in-law. I know I haven't really taken on stand on the question, but I did find it an interesting one and one I am currently struggling with.

Becky


Becky, you can at least make the comparison I guess for those books you want to recommend but are not sure. You could say, hey, I really liked this book but I am warning you, if it were a movie, it would be an R rated one for language and sexual content.

As for making them more enticing for kids if they see them rated, well they said that about the movies too but the rating system works and at least keeps everyone informed. And kids are always going to be enticed by what we say no to, but do we stop being parents or adults and stop saying no, because that might make them want to do it more? I think a lot of parents have just given up their right and duty as the caregiver in areas like drinking, smoking, having sex, because they just say, well, it doesnt matter what I say,they are going to do it anyway, so I would rather them drink here, where I can keep an eye on them, BULL! or why teach abstinance, they are going to have sex anyway, so its just easier to give them a condom, BULL! Its our job as adults to teach our children and the youth, when did it stop being so? Our parents didnt just stop and yeah we may have still done it, but we at least knew it mattered and that it mattered to our parents and it did make us think about our choices and thats still important. Ok, got on a little soapbox there lol but I feel very strongly about the things we are teaching, or should I say not teaching our children by what we DON'T do or say :smileywink:
Kids can't get into R rated without a parent and adults who dont like those kind of movies dont waste their money. And its not like censorship, I am not suggesting not writing certain books or that they have to be written a certain way to be published (like many tv shows are told). I am just saying, give it a simple rating for content.




Giving the book a rating would certainly make it easier to know what's going on in your child's life. My son is only three, but my opinions and ideas on theses types of things have certainly changed with my parental responsibility. I like your idea of comparing the book to a movie rating. I think I'll do that in recommending the books I want to introduce to my nieces and sister-in-law. Thanks for the idea.
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