59 Replies Latest reply on Oct 27, 2012 10:15 AM by Sun_Cat

    LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

      Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my nook, and I like the lend me feature that is offered. However, you should know, which I found to my dismay, that once you lend someone a book, you can't lend the same book to someone else. This sucks because I enjoy reading a lot, and if I find a book that I know two or three friends would enjoy and I want to lend it to them, I can't do it. B & N doesn't make this clear (LendME) and I think they should allow us to lend books as many times as possible!

       

      Also, does anyone know if the Borrow Books feature from friends is exclusive to NookColor alone?

        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
          swan480

          Actually, I disagree.  They are very clear about it.  I've never even used this feature, and I already knew you could only lend a book once.  You can easily find this information if you click on the "How It Works" link on the item page of a lendable book.

            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

              Thanks for clearing that up Swan. and I agree, i do wish you could lend a book at least 3 times,, and the feature to 'borrow' someone elses book could be moved to the 'old' nook.

               

              we can only hope!

                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                  wordsandmelodies

                  I might be the only one to feel this way, but...

                   

                  I'm a huge fan of Lending.  I've always loaned books to friends, and borrowed them, too.  Lending works for me -- "Hey, I have this book I think you'd like to read.  Want to borrow it?"

                   

                  But, unless we are allowed to choose which books of ours are on a "public" bookshelf that our friends and relations can see, it actually makes me a little uncomfortable.  I read things that my mother doesn't need to know about.  We can include my little sister in that category, too.

                   

                  If I can initiate that transaction, fabulous.  But the other way around... no, thanks.

                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                      What I have a hard time understanding is if I own a printed copy of a book I can simply lend it to a friend or whoever without consequence.  I don't believe it is illegal, but if someone knows otherwise I would love to know.  B&N lendme policy on not being able to read it while you're lending it makes complete sense. They should have no control over how many times a book can be lent, or even what books can be lent. Once I purchase the book, it's my property and I have the right to give the book to whoever I please. I understand copyright laws may have a different view, but couldn't I just give it to a friend as a present. That should be allowed.  The could then regift the book back to me, or to someone else.  I'm not making a profit or anything.  The public library systems lend books to hundreds of thousands if not millions of people a multitude of times!  I know that I'm not a public library, but still.  Lending books among friends should not be limited. 

                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                          Doug_Pardee

                          Vanilla_Rooibos wrote:

                           

                          I understand copyright laws may have a different view, but couldn't I just give it to a friend as a present.


                          The copyright laws control who has the right to make a copy (hence the name, copyright). You can't make a copy of a book and give it to your friend; you can only give them the copy that the publisher created. With e-books, you can't give your friend an e-book you bought except by making a copy of it.

                           

                          You can, however, lend your NOOK to your friend with the e-book on it. In that case, you aren't making a copy.

                           

                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                            bklvr896

                            Vanilla_Rooibos wrote:

                            What I have a hard time understanding is if I own a printed copy of a book I can simply lend it to a friend or whoever without consequence.  I don't believe it is illegal, but if someone knows otherwise I would love to know.  B&N lendme policy on not being able to read it while you're lending it makes complete sense. They should have no control over how many times a book can be lent, or even what books can be lent. Once I purchase the book, it's my property and I have the right to give the book to whoever I please. I understand copyright laws may have a different view, but couldn't I just give it to a friend as a present. That should be allowed.  The could then regift the book back to me, or to someone else.  I'm not making a profit or anything.  The public library systems lend books to hundreds of thousands if not millions of people a multitude of times!  I know that I'm not a public library, but still.  Lending books among friends should not be limited. 


                            The first thing you should be aware of is that it is not B&N lending policy, it is the publishers' lending policy, B&N has no say over it, except for pubit books.  

                             

                            And, while I agree with you, I should be able to lend my books to anyone I want, here are a few of the "problems" with lending eBooks.  

                             

                            A printed book has a limited life, in that, at some point, that book is going to become unusable, it's going to fall apart.  Not so with an eBook, it could be lend thousands of times without an issue.

                             

                            Your statement  Lending books among friends should not be limited, says it all.  If people stuck to lending only to friends, it might not be such an issue.  But with an eBook, it is possible to lend it to total strangers because all you have to do is email the file.  There are a number of sites that have popped up, where you can sign up to lend your book to anyone else who has signed up.  You wouldn't lend a printed book to a total stranger on the other side of the country, but, with these lending sites, you can.  If they allowed unlimited lending, then I could purchase a book, put in on that site, and hundreds of people could "borrow" it.  Since there seems to be no way to make sure you are lending it to friends as opposed to strangers who happen to be signed up on the same lending site, the publishers answer is to limit the number of times you can lend.  I think 1 is unreasonable, maybe 3-5 times would be more reasonable, but I can't see them ever allowing unlimited lending.

                             

                            You don't actually purchase the eBook, you purchase a license to read it.

                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                tammy1986d

                                In response to this statement:"You wouldn't lend a printed book to a total stranger on the other side of the country" Yes I would and so do thousands of other people.  I belong to a book swaping club called paperbackswap.com and that is exactly what  we do is swap paperback book with other people around the country. There are a lot of these paper back swap sights out there. Just sayin :smileywink: 

                                  • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                    KingAl

                                    tammy1986d wrote:

                                    In response to this statement:"You wouldn't lend a printed book to a total stranger on the other side of the country" Yes I would and so do thousands of other people.  I belong to a book swaping club called paperbackswap.com and that is exactly what  we do is swap paperback book with other people around the country. There are a lot of these paper back swap sights out there. Just sayin :smileywink: 


                                    But when you lend a paper book, you take the chance of the book not being returned or of it being damaged. When you lend an ebook, the book will automatically come back in the same "condition" it was in before.

                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                            I had no clue that I could only lend a book once.  And as an author, I would want my books out there.  It has been my experience that if someone likes a book and passes it on then the recipient is more likely to read a sequel or another book by the same author.  I don't think the authors are the sole reason for the limit.  As a teacher, I am disappointed.  I would like to loan these books to my students and not have to worry about losing the book forever.  That is such a struggle for teachers and books aren't cheap.

                              • Re: LendMe ideas on NOOK
                                RHWright

                                Hate to bump a thread with a starting subject I disagree with, but...

                                 

                                I wonder if it's possible to allow publishers to set their own lending parameters.

                                 

                                Sure, some want no lending, and already don't opt in to LendMe.

                                Right now we have a model where some agree to the 1 time/2 weeks policy.

                                 

                                Wouldn't it be nice if the more generous/enlightened publishers could make those parameters more liberal for their titles? And allow them to set it on a per title basis, if they want, with the terms clearly stated (somewhere) on the product page & receipt/confirmation.

                                 

                                So, if publisher X likes the 1x/2w format, so be it. Publisher Y may decide to go with 3x/4w. While good ol' publisher B may make only their new release 1x/2w, but older titles 10x/3w.

                                 

                                I would also like to see the lendability terms locked in for each customer at the time of purchase. As it is, a book may be lendable at time of purchase, but that lendability (limited as it is) may be rescinded without notice at any time, even before it has not been lent out that one time. If you bought it lendable, it should stay lendable until you've used that pre-determined number of loan-outs.

                                 

                                This hasn't impacted me directly, but I know others that it has.

                            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                              Melissa_W

                              Lend Me has always been like that.  This is the FAQ page, accessible from NOOK product pages; Lend Me is explained in the first question: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-support-managing-your-library/379002489/?cds2Pid=35611

                               

                              At this time, the Borrow feature is exclusive to NOOKcolor.

                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                I just purchased my NOOK and was very disheartened to find out that I can only lend a book one time. Does anyone know why this is the case?? I feel like if I've purchased the book, I should be able to lend it to whomever I want, however many times I want... Any feedback is appreciated.

                                  • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                    geertm

                                    PChefKrissy wrote:

                                    I just purchased my NOOK and was very disheartened to find out that I can only lend a book one time. Does anyone know why this is the case?? I feel like if I've purchased the book, I should be able to lend it to whomever I want, however many times I want... Any feedback is appreciated.


                                    The Lendme restrictions are publisher restrictions. Publishers want to sell ebooks, not lend them. When Amazon started to lend ebooks (with the same restrictions) many publishers disabled lending for their ebooks on Amazon and unfortunately also on  B&N.

                                    Most publishers for the same reason do not like to sell their ebooks to libraries. Some do not sell their books to libraries at all. Penguin recently stopped selling new ebooks to libraries.


                                     

                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                      gb18

                                      The problem is that we do not own the book as we would a hard copy.  The notion of "buying" an ebook (at least from most "bookstores") is a fallacy.  We do not own them.

                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                      I don't believe it's Nook Color exclusive because I have a Simple Touch and I have the LendMe feature.

                                       

                                      It's kind of a bummer that you can only lend it to someone once, however I'm sure the reason behind it is that lending it too often would violate copywright/distribution laws. It's kind of like buying a CD and making a bunch of copies to give to your friends.

                                       

                                      If you read something though that you know your friends will like you can encourage them to get it, which is more money for the author, which means the author will make enough to keep writing us some great stuff to read! :smileytongue:

                                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                          beeyebickiebuy

                                          Kiana_Darkrose wrote:

                                          ..., however I'm sure the reason behind it is that lending it too often would violate copywright/distribution laws. ...


                                          Perhaps, but really it comes down to what nearly everything in life is all about - Money.  Any other reason about why an organization does this or anything else falls in behind Money every time.

                                            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                              LarryOnLI

                                              beeyebickiebuy wrote:

                                              Kiana_Darkrose wrote:

                                              ..., however I'm sure the reason behind it is that lending it too often would violate copywright/distribution laws. ...


                                              Perhaps, but really it comes down to what nearly everything in life is all about - Money.  Any other reason about why an organization does this or anything else falls in behind Money every time.


                                              You are absolutely correct, it is all about money.

                                               

                                              Your desire to keep more money in your pocket, and the authors/publishers desire to have more money in theirs.

                                               

                                              You might feel it is your right to freely share the electronic edition of the book you bought, but the author feels just a strongly that he should be able to put food on the table for his family this week, and the law is on his side.

                                               

                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                  As a reader, I'm all for maximum lending capabilities. Power to the people! But as a published author (Bloodthirst in Babylon, Samhain Horror), I have to come down on the side of "The Man."

                                                   

                                                  Every "lend" is a lost sale, though I understand it's no different than tossing your friend your tattered paperback. Or borrowing a book from the library. I guess the logical compromise is the one-time lending functionality B&N built in. Or at least it keeps writers and publishers no more disgrunteld than readers. 

                                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                      keriflur

                                                      DavidSearls wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Every "lend" is a lost sale


                                                      Not true, though I see where you're going with this.  If I'm lukewarm on a book, I won't buy it, but if my friend has it I might borrow it and read it.  In this case, the publisher is losing nothing, as I wasn't going to buy the book anyway.  They do have the possibility of the upside though - if I like the book I'll probably buy others by the author.  If I don't like the book, no harm, no foul.

                                                       

                                                      So, some, probably many, lends are lost sales.  But not all of them.  Sometimes the publisher loses on a lend, but sometimes they win.

                                                      • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                        RHWright

                                                        DavidSearls wrote:

                                                        As a reader, I'm all for maximum lending capabilities. Power to the people! But as a published author (Bloodthirst in Babylon, Samhain Horror), I have to come down on the side of "The Man."

                                                         

                                                        Every "lend" is a lost sale, though I understand it's no different than tossing your friend your tattered paperback. Or borrowing a book from the library. I guess the logical compromise is the one-time lending functionality B&N built in. Or at least it keeps writers and publishers no more disgrunteld than readers. 


                                                        If you go by the logic that every time someone reads your book and does not pay you=a "lost sale," sure. But then so, as you point out, would be giving someone your DTB copy, or borrowing from a library, or buying a used copy, or reading their own copy more than once. (Heck, they could have bought a new book and read that instead.)

                                                         

                                                        Unlike plain old file sharing, LendMe at least has safeguards built in that only one active "copy" of a book exists at a time.

                                                         

                                                        But I think it's better to think of lent copies as free advertising than lost sales. It helps get your name out, build & expand a fan base, etc.

                                                         

                                                        For decades, publishers have had little problem with sending out free advance/review copies of titles. Think of this in a similar vein. Instead of getting those copies into the hands of people a few steps removed from the final purchase decision, now you can have consumers marketing directly to other consumers.

                                                         

                                                        Wholesale illegal file sharing is another matter entirely. But programs like LendMe need to be encouraged and nurtured to help cut down on these less reasonable activities.

                                                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                            keriflur

                                                            RHWright wrote:

                                                             

                                                            For decades, publishers have had little problem with sending out free advance/review copies of titles.


                                                            They're having problems lately, LOL.  They're requesting contracts from reviewers who receive ARCs, requiring reviews, monitoring the content of those reviews.  The times, they are a changin'.

                                                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                RHWright

                                                                keriflur wrote:

                                                                RHWright wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                For decades, publishers have had little problem with sending out free advance/review copies of titles.


                                                                They're having problems lately, LOL.  They're requesting contracts from reviewers who receive ARCs, requiring reviews, monitoring the content of those reviews.  The times, they are a changin'.



                                                                Really? You're kidding me. I haven't been on any ARC lists since I left the bookstore. That's just crazy.

                                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                      I totally agree with you.  I never paid much attention to the Lend Me option and just lent someone a book.  I didn't realize I could only do that once.  This is so stupid, if I had the paperback I could let an unlimited number of people read that book, how is this different.  If I buy it I should should be able to do whatever I want with it.  I love my Nook but this is ridiculous. One way for B & N to boost book sales.  Also, do you know how they decide which books I can lend?  I just bought one and was going to lend it to somebody and its not an option.  Again, I don't like B & N deciding what I can and can't do.

                                                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                          nancy59 wrote:
                                                          If I buy it I should should be able to do whatever I want with it.  I love my Nook but this is ridiculous. One way for B & N to boost book sales.  Also, do you know how they decide which books I can lend?  I just bought one and was going to lend it to somebody and its not an option.  Again, I don't like B & N deciding what I can and can't do.

                                                          Please read the earlier part of this thread to correct some misconceptions you have about what's actually going on with the Lend Me feature. For example:

                                                          1. B&N doesn't decide anything regarding lending. The book publishers make the decisions.
                                                          2. You can't buy an ebook from B&N or anyone else. You can only buy a license to use the ebook in ways that the publishers dictate.

                                                          If you want to see this situation change, write to the big publishers. It won't do any good to complain to B&N or about B&N because it's out of their hands.

                                                           

                                                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                          I like the lendme, I have never used it but it is nice to have to share books with others. I understand why they allow only 1, if you can send to more than one then they lose money. Nook beats the kindle by far so as long as they don't pull what kindle did with their programming I will stay true to nook.

                                                            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                              keriflur

                                                              cntryguy wrote:

                                                              I like the lendme, I have never used it but it is nice to have to share books with others. I understand why they allow only 1, if you can send to more than one then they lose money. Nook beats the kindle by far so as long as they don't pull what kindle did with their programming I will stay true to nook.


                                                              What did kindle pull with their programming?  Just curious, I don't own a kindle so I'm not in the loop on what they're doing over there.

                                                            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                              Barnes & Noble "with the NOOK" is a big rip-off with regards to the "lend me" policy.  If I purchase a Book on the Nook it is my book and I should be able to lend that to my spouse if I wish to or anyone for that matter.  From my perspective, if I purchase a Book at any store in the country I can lend it to anyone I wish.  I should be able to do that with the Nook purchase as well.  Barnes & Noble are currently cheating everyone.  I was told by an employee prior to purchasing the Nook that I could "Lend" any book I purchased.  Obviously that employee lied to me or was misinformed.

                                                               

                                                              In addition to the lend me policy being a rip-off there is also an issue with the battery life on the Nook Tablet.  IT actually SUCKS.  I purchased two Nook Tablets - one for me and one for my wife. If I knew then what I know now, I would never made this purchase. 

                                                               

                                                              I am currently in the process of starting my own Blog and make it known to all that I can what a rip-off the Nook is and that Barnes & Noble is as well.

                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                  bklvr896

                                                                  lawfos wrote:

                                                                  Barnes & Noble "with the NOOK" is a big rip-off with regards to the "lend me" policy.  If I purchase a Book on the Nook it is my book and I should be able to lend that to my spouse if I wish to or anyone for that matter.  From my perspective, if I purchase a Book at any store in the country I can lend it to anyone I wish.  I should be able to do that with the Nook purchase as well.  Barnes & Noble are currently cheating everyone.  I was told by an employee prior to purchasing the Nook that I could "Lend" any book I purchased.  Obviously that employee lied to me or was misinformed.

                                                                   

                                                                  In addition to the lend me policy being a rip-off there is also an issue with the battery life on the Nook Tablet.  IT actually SUCKS.  I purchased two Nook Tablets - one for me and one for my wife. If I knew then what I know now, I would never made this purchase. 

                                                                   

                                                                  I am currently in the process of starting my own Blog and make it known to all that I can what a rip-off the Nook is and that Barnes & Noble is as well.


                                                                  It's a publisher restriction, not a BN restriction.  The same restriction applies to lend me books from anywhere, including those on the Kindle.  So if you're going to complain in a blog about the restriction, make sure you have your facts correct.  Don't blame the retailer (BN) for what the publisher is doing.  You'd have exactly the same issue regardless of what device(s) your purchased.

                                                                   

                                                                  And you can share the books between you and your wife without using the lendme feature.  Just follow the instructions in this post.  

                                                                  • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                    deesy58

                                                                    lawfos wrote:

                                                                    Barnes & Noble "with the NOOK" is a big rip-off with regards to the "lend me" policy.  If I purchase a Book on the Nook it is my book and I should be able to lend that to my spouse if I wish to or anyone for that matter.  From my perspective, if I purchase a Book at any store in the country I can lend it to anyone I wish.  I should be able to do that with the Nook purchase as well.  Barnes & Noble are currently cheating everyone.  I was told by an employee prior to purchasing the Nook that I could "Lend" any book I purchased.  Obviously that employee lied to me or was misinformed.

                                                                     

                                                                    In addition to the lend me policy being a rip-off there is also an issue with the battery life on the Nook Tablet.  IT actually SUCKS.  I purchased two Nook Tablets - one for me and one for my wife. If I knew then what I know now, I would never made this purchase. 

                                                                     

                                                                    I am currently in the process of starting my own Blog and make it known to all that I can what a rip-off the Nook is and that Barnes & Noble is as well.


                                                                    Time to read the fine print.  You do not "own" the e-book just as you don't "own" Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, Mac OS X, your favorite PC game, or almost any other software, unless you write it yourself.  What you purchased is a "Limited Use License."  You are not free to share it or reproduce it unless specifically authorized by the publisher. 

                                                                     

                                                                    Get used to it.  It has been this way for a very long time and isn't likely to change soon. 

                                                                      • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                        keriflur

                                                                        Barnes and Noble is cheating everyone.  I bought my nook so that it could clean my house and make me dinner.  It refuses to do either of those things.  I want my money back.

                                                                         

                                                                        Barnes and Noble needs to explicitly say that nook doesn't cook and clean, and none of the marketing materials make that clear.  What a scam.

                                                                         

                                                                        I'm going to buy a kindle.

                                                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                      Bears_Chick

                                                                      I LOVE my NOOK as well; however, one of the main reasons I purchased a NOOK over a Kindle was because two of my girlfriends had NOOKs and said "we can lend books to each other!" So cool! I went with the NOOK. Then another one of our gfs went out and also bought a NOOK also, for the same reason. Just today we realized that you can only lend a book one time. I understand putting limitations on lending, but ONE TIME?! Seriously?! I can lend a physical book to as many friends as I want, but an eBook, which I paid the SAME PRICE for... I can only lend to ONE friend. So now it's going to be a rush... who can get the Lend Me the quickest! I'm very disappointed!

                                                                       

                                                                      To the powers that be, you need to change this! Keep a limit on it if you want, but allow us to lend four-five times. Be realistic!

                                                                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                          Bears_Chick wrote:

                                                                          To the powers that be, you need to change this! Keep a limit on it if you want, but allow us to lend four-five times. Be realistic!


                                                                          Please read this entire thread for a real understanding of this issue. The powers that be who can change this aren't here or at B&N. They are publishing house executives.

                                                                            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                              Bears_Chick

                                                                              Sun Cat, I realize it's not BN. I read the thread... Hence "Powers That Be" and not Dear, BN.

                                                                               

                                                                              Do you think publishing agencies don't read threads on the BN website that are talking about the rules they make?

                                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                  Bears_Chick wrote:

                                                                                  Sun Cat, I realize it's not BN. I read the thread... Hence "Powers That Be" and not Dear, BN.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Do you think publishing agencies don't read threads on the BN website that are talking about the rules they make?


                                                                                  No, I don't think publishers follow these boards. Very few people even know that these boards exist, since B&N has removed all links to them from their main site.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  IMO the only effective way to lobby for publishers to change the rules is to write directly to the executives who make those decisions.

                                                                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                geertm

                                                                                Bears_Chick wrote:

                                                                                I LOVE my NOOK as well; however, one of the main reasons I purchased a NOOK over a Kindle was because two of my girlfriends had NOOKs and said "we can lend books to each other!" So cool! I went with the NOOK. Then another one of our gfs went out and also bought a NOOK also, for the same reason. Just today we realized that you can only lend a book one time. I understand putting limitations on lending, but ONE TIME?! Seriously?! I can lend a physical book to as many friends as I want, but an eBook, which I paid the SAME PRICE for... I can only lend to ONE friend. So now it's going to be a rush... who can get the Lend Me the quickest! I'm very disappointed!

                                                                                 

                                                                                To the powers that be, you need to change this! Keep a limit on it if you want, but allow us to lend four-five times. Be realistic!


                                                                                The B&N DRM allows to you to share books by just copying them to another ereader. For the first book you will have type in the credit card number and name to unlock it. This will be remembered for all other books.

                                                                                Install Nook for PC on your PC to download your ebooks. Then you can share those books with your friends by just copying them to another ereader (using the USB cable).

                                                                                You can copy any B&N DRM book as many times as your want, to as many readers as you want. That is the big advantage of B&N's DRM compared to Kindle and Adobe.

                                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                  Have you considered registering both your nooks to the same account? Me and my boyfriend do that, he just gives me money or whatever for the books and we can even read the simultaneously without buying two.
                                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                  I think B&N should instantiate a feature that allows you to earn lends (either purchasing a package of 5 lends for $X.XX or earn one lend for each book you review and also one free lend with each B&N book purchased). Lends would be like a currency, usable for any book in your library that you want to lend.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Only allowing a book to be lent to one other person at a time is reasonable to prevent oversharing and is grounded by the reality that you can only lend a hardcopy book to one person at a time. Also cap the number of current outstanding lends from a person's library as well. 

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I thought of all of this in 5 minutes and it makes sense as well as seems fair

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I will go more in-depth on this topic in a blog post later this week (lets say 05/24/12) here at http://www.jrulle.com/hey-barnes-noble-let-my-people-lend

                                                                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                      geertm

                                                                                      Ullejr wrote:

                                                                                      I think B&N should instantiate a feature that allows you to earn lends (either purchasing a package of 5 lends for $X.XX or earn one lend for each book you review and also one free lend with each B&N book purchased). Lends would be like a currency, usable for any book in your library that you want to lend.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Only allowing a book to be lent to one other person at a time is reasonable to prevent oversharing and is grounded by the reality that you can only lend a hardcopy book to one person at a time. Also cap the number of current outstanding lends from a person's library as well. 

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I thought of all of this in 5 minutes and it makes sense as well as seems fair

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I will go more in-depth on this topic in a blog post later this week (lets say 05/24/12) here at http://www.jrulle.com/hey-barnes-noble-let-my-people-lend


                                                                                      You are overlooking the most important fact. These are publisher restrictions. And the publishers have decided to disable lending for most books.

                                                                                      • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                        compulsivereaderTX

                                                                                        Ullejr wrote:

                                                                                        I think B&N should instantiate a feature that allows you to earn lends (either purchasing a package of 5 lends for $X.XX or earn one lend for each book you review and also one free lend with each B&N book purchased). Lends would be like a currency, usable for any book in your library that you want to lend.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Only allowing a book to be lent to one other person at a time is reasonable to prevent oversharing and is grounded by the reality that you can only lend a hardcopy book to one person at a time. Also cap the number of current outstanding lends from a person's library as well. 

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I thought of all of this in 5 minutes and it makes sense as well as seems fair

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I will go more in-depth on this topic in a blog post later this week (lets say 05/24/12) here at http://www.jrulle.com/hey-barnes-noble-let-my-people-lend


                                                                                        I would think a person would research their facts before they wrote such a thing on a blog only to be ridiculed later by said facts. Read all the posts and then decide if that is the topic you want to write. 

                                                                                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                            compulsivereaderTX

                                                                                            Copyrights are in place to prevent folks from COPYING original works of authors, writers, etc without explicit written permission from the author of the work. Publishers get permission via contracts from the author to certain rights towards the work such as to print copies of the books and market/sell them in exchange for royalties, etc. As a rule, those contracts include how and what type of copies can be made and an exclusive to that publisher. In return, that publisher usually will protect that exclusive right to protect themselves and the author. 

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Once we purchase a printed book, we can do anything we want to it, including giving it away or destroying it. Because we purchased that COPY of the printed book for which the publisher recieved permission from the author to print in exchange for part of the profit for selling that printed book. It would be a bit difficult and time consuming for someone to make a physical copy of a printed book to give to a friend (considering the cost of buying another legal copy) but I suppose it could be done if one wanted to make a point, the not a point I would understand. :smileyhappy: Libraries pay a premium to buy and the right to loan out printed books that are not donated to them. 

                                                                                             

                                                                                            The only way to give away or loan out an ebook is by making a COPY of it. And it's illegal WITHOUT permission from the author or publisher (as a legal holder of the copyright, limited or otherwise) of the ebook. 

                                                                                             

                                                                                            The whole "purchasing a lease to read it" rather than owning my copy seems more like a made up reason to explain why one can't make a copy, than the actual reason. I borrow a book to read from the library too, but no one charges me nearly $20 for the priviledge per book unless I return the book in such a state that it has to be replaced.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I own MY copy of the ebook. I do not hit a button that says "rent", I hit a button that says "buy". That does NOT however, give me the right to MAKE A COPY OF THE ebook for any reason other than what the publisher/author has granted, same as for any digital/software purchase! I do not purchase that right with a printed version of the book and it is not a given right with the digital version either unless the author and/or publisher grants it.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Since I can not give or loan the book without making a copy of it, I can't give or loan it without permission. Some publishers give very limited rights to the copy that we purchase. Others are more generous.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            WIth the lend me program, we (B&N and the reader) ARE being given permission (by participating publishers/authors) to make a copy to share ONE time for a limited time period to someone not on our account.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            For all ebooks we purchase from B&N, we are also allowed to share a book on several devices that are all on the same account. THEN to top it all off, we ARE given the right to make a copy to give to someone in return that we also share our credit card information with that person so they can read it. A right that can be given with some assurance that we aren't likely to share that information with very many people, thus limiting who and how many times we do it.

                                                                                            I don't see this as any severe limitations in sharing ebooks among family members and close friends except those who gripe but don't read posts for solutions before griping, or continue to gripe after post after post gives them the solutions.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            You ARE allowed to share your ebooks with ANYONE you want to....as long as you also share your credit card information so they may open and read the ebook. That is entirely up to you and no one is stopping you.

                                                                                             

                                                                                             

                                                                                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                            The article is more based on the fact that B&N should lobby on behalf of its readers for a change in eBook distribution policies. If B&N sided with their customers it may help foster a change in the publishing industry... if nothing else it couldn't hurt the effort. The idea is kind of a snowball effect, start with targeting smaller publishers (who will be quicker to change their policies because having their books available for purchase on nook is a major revenue driver for them) and authors and work up the totem pole. 

                                                                                             

                                                                                            B&N could instantiate a policy and then work with publishers to proactively get authors on board. 

                                                                                             

                                                                                            The article will talk more about the lack of copyright holding organiztions (i.e. publshers in the literary arena and hollywood movie companies, etc.) to adapt to the online environment that our economy is continually embracing. My above suggestion was simply a e-mirror scenario to the concept of lending a physical book which only seems fair to me.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            In no way was a blaming B&N for the policy, I am more asking for them to work with their readership base to find a solution. 

                                                                                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                patgolfneb

                                                                                                The problem with lending ebooks is obvious to everyone, no good solutions currently exist which properly protect all interests. Security of consumer access and control to purchased content is less than ideal. No resale rights etc. Publishers and authors reasonably fear their product being copied and distributed widely, basically for free. Any real solution requires new mechanisms. 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                It doesn't seem realistic to expect publishers, whose primary obligation is to protect their own and author intersts to champion this. It is equally so to expect BN who after all is in the business of selling books to do so.  In the past goverment authored solutions to address consumer and public good. The heightened distrust of goverment, the focus on protecting business, and the ever growing influence of big money cripples any govermental responses. In the short term rules fostering the ability of libraries to buy ebooks affordably and lend them is the best bet.

                                                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                  compulsivereaderTX

                                                                                                  Ullejr wrote:

                                                                                                  The article is more based on the fact that B&N should lobby on behalf of its readers for a change in eBook distribution policies. If B&N sided with their customers it may help foster a change in the publishing industry... if nothing else it couldn't hurt the effort. The idea is kind of a snowball effect, start with targeting smaller publishers (who will be quicker to change their policies because having their books available for purchase on nook is a major revenue driver for them) and authors and work up the totem pole. 

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  B&N could instantiate a policy and then work with publishers to proactively get authors on board. 

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  The article will talk more about the lack of copyright holding organiztions (i.e. publshers in the literary arena and hollywood movie companies, etc.) to adapt to the online environment that our economy is continually embracing. My above suggestion was simply a e-mirror scenario to the concept of lending a physical book which only seems fair to me.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  In no way was a blaming B&N for the policy, I am more asking for them to work with their readership base to find a solution. 


                                                                                                  There are already abilities to give/loan your ebooks to family and friends. As many as you want or feel comfortable with. You wouldn't loan out your printed copy to just anyone you didn't trust either. What if they never returned it? What if they destroyed it? It would have to be replaced and you'd have to purchase another copy to do that.
                                                                                                  With a printed book, that book is returned after it is read and the borrower does not retain a copy of the book. With an ebook, once you give them a copy of the ebook, they have possession of it for as long as they want and can then distribute it even furtherif they want to. Since they didn't pay for it, they aren't as likely to protect their interest in the ebook as they don't really have any. Some type of restriction has to be in place to limit that distribution. Why should we expect unlimited distribution rights on a $10 purchase? Or even a $20 purchase? That's where the credit card comes into play. I think it's a doable solution for loaning to friends and family. Works fine so far for me.
                                                                                                  Unless you are planning to give out copies to the masses?
                                                                                                  The only real restriction is the ability to donate the ebook to a public library or to resell it once read as you can with a printed copy of the book. I would like to see this addressed, but I imagine it will be awhile before a solution is found that would allow us to do that and still protect the interests of the copyright holder. The authors probably spent months writing that novel and their interests come before ours. And should. Of course, what we are charged for an ebook, should more closely reflect the limitations we purchase with the ebook, that much I agree with. IF we can't resell it or donate it, then we shouldn't be charged out the nose to read it either. 

                                                                                                  There are limitations in loaning printed books, being there is only ONE copy that you can loan, limiting who you loan it to and how many people can have it at the same time (ONE). It also limits your own access to that printed book when it is loaned out to another person. (sounds like the lend me program, eh? except you can do it more than once with a printed book until the book needs to be replaced).

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  I agree that some changes need to be made and I imagine laws will need to be enacted to protect everyone involved, but you are less likely to get results if you are demanding unlimited lending abilities and you want them NOW. Because that is what you are demanding. Again, you already have the ability to lend your ebooks to family and friends, as many as you want to lend to. You don't seem to be getting that though it has been repeated over and over in this thread. As with a printed copy, you are limited only by who you chose to trust. 

                                                                                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                      compulsivereaderTX

                                                                                                      You can't really set up an e-mirror of the situation because they are NOT the same. With a printed book, there is only ONE copy involved per purchase and it degrades over time with use. And though you COULD scan every page in the book to make a copy, it is going to require a lot more time and effort than buying a new one. With an ebook, there is the potential for millions of copies to be made from ONE purchase and that ebook never degrades, though it might no  longer be usable in the future if standard formatting changes.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Resell an ebook? But you'd still have your own copy, so you'd be selling a COPY of the ebook whereas selling a printed book, you are giving up possession of that actual printed book.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      It might be the same read in both instances, but the issues involved are completely different. Controlling distribution of ONE copy when only ONE copy is available to distribute is a completely different animal than controlling distribution of an ebook which can and does result in MULTIPLE copies from one purchase. A whole new can of worms.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                                  I agree completley. Every one is posting that is clear in the FAQ's, however that is not the real issue here. I don't care if it is in all caps and bold it still sucks and is not fair. We bought the book and should be able to lend it as many times as we want, just as we would a paper book!! 

                                                                                                    • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                                      ssapp94 wrote:

                                                                                                      ...it still sucks and is not fair. We bought the book and should be able to lend it as many times as we want, just as we would a paper book!! 


                                                                                                      Except that you didn't buy it. That's the point that seems -- for some unknown reason -- to be so elusive. You can't buy an ebook from a major publisher in the same sense that you can buy a paper book. All you can buy is a license to use the file that contains the ebook, and the publisher gets to dictate the terms of the license. Because you don't own anything but the license. You don't even own your copy of the file.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Lots of folks think it sucks. But to say it isn't fair is useless. Everyone has to play by the same rules.

                                                                                                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                          gb18

                                                                                                          Sun_Cat wrote:

                                                                                                          ssapp94 wrote:

                                                                                                          ...it still sucks and is not fair. We bought the book and should be able to lend it as many times as we want, just as we would a paper book!! 


                                                                                                          Except that you didn't buy it. That's the point that seems -- for some unknown reason -- to be so elusive. You can't buy an ebook from a major publisher in the same sense that you can buy a paper book. All you can buy is a license to use the file that contains the ebook, and the publisher gets to dictate the terms of the license. Because you don't own anything but the license. You don't even own your copy of the file.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Lots of folks think it sucks. But to say it isn't fair is useless. Everyone has to play by the same rules.


                                                                                                          "Except that you didn't buy it."

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          This is the point, like it or not.  Personally, I don't fall for it.  Simply will not do it.  If enough people would do the same, things would change.  Obviously, that's not happening.

                                                                                                            • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                              bklvr896

                                                                                                              gb18 wrote:

                                                                                                              "Except that you didn't buy it."

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              This is the point, like it or not.  Personally, I don't fall for it.  Simply will not do it.  If enough people would do the same, things would change.  Obviously, that's not happening.


                                                                                                              None of the friends, acquaintances, coworkers that I know who have some type of ereader care about the prices and they don't care about lending, they buy what they want to read.  Of all of them/me, I'm the only one who even pays attention to the prices and I will generally buy a book if I want to read as long as it's not $14.99.  I draw the line at $15 for any fiction book, eBook, HC, etc.

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              I really don't think the price or lending is an issue for a large majority of eReader owners.

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                            patgolfneb
                                                                                                            ssapp94, maybe it's piling on, but did you really read and consider the issues raised in other posts? Your post is representative of why discussion on the Internet is often ridiculed. I agree that e book owners deserve more. By basically whining it sucks, like any teen, and failing to give a response that acknowledges the differences between e books and paper books and the legitimate concerns of authors, publishers, and retailers, you failed to add anything to the discussion. Perhaps you could set an example for congress and propose a method that balances these competing interests.
                                                                                                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                                ReformedReader

                                                                                                                There have been some on this thread that have express the issues very well.  The issue with most of those complaining is not really the polices, but the lack of research before buying the device.  My NST is my second ebook reader.  I bought the first (an ebookwise 1150) because I discovered gutenberg.org and several authors I wanted to read.  I figured that I would buy an ereader because it was much more convenient than reading on a laptop.  I was aware of the policies regarding ebook purchases and to me it did not matter because I planned on using the device to read mostly free ebooks anyway.  When I bought the Nook, I chose it over the Kindle because of the touch feature (which Kindle hadn't introduced yet) and because it would read epubs, the "standard" ebook format.  Again I knew what the terms of "purchase" and lending were going to be before I bought the device. 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                I personally have had an ereader for 5+ years and have only "purchased" three ebooks that I can remember.  I completely agree with the industries handling of digital copies of books.  They would be too easy to pirate not to use some form of DRM and put some restriction on lending.  Purchasing the "right to display" a work instead of purchasing a digital copy makes perfect sense.  My problem is with the prices they change.  If the "right to display" is going to cost me nearly as much as buying a physical copy, I will either not buy or buy the physical copy.  So, I have not purchased many books.  But my point is I understood this going in.  Before you purchase a device, know what you are getting and what the terms of use are.  If you can't live with the terms of use, don't buy the device.

                                                                                                                  • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                                    keriflur

                                                                                                                    ReformedReader wrote:

                                                                                                                    There have been some on this thread that have express the issues very well.  The issue with most of those complaining is not really the polices, but the lack of research before buying the device.


                                                                                                                    YES.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Sometimes I buy things without properly researching them.  A lot of the time I don't read the fine print, and I almost never read ToS documentation.  And you know what?  If something doesn't turn out the way I hoped, IT'S ON ME.  It's my fault for not educating myself.  It's my fault, because I had the opportunity to know better.  I don't go on about how the universe is unfair and needs to change for me.  I don't complain that the seller, rights holder, maker, etc. is WRONG, because, fair or not, they made the information available to me, and they're following the policy I agreed to.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    So you know what I do in a situation like that?  I suck it up.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    I'm all for discussing the benefits and drawbacks of a policy.  I'm all for those who suggest a better way to do things (assuming the person has actually thought about the complexities of the issue).  But I see absolutely no benefit in complaining, period.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    When someone cries, "It's not fair!" I want to stick them in the corner and give them a time out while the other kids go out for recess.  Slavery is unfair.  Sitting in jail when you're innocent of the crime is unfair.  Cancer is unfair.  But we're talking about ebooks here.

                                                                                                              • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                                                as nook owners, we should see about a forum and community website like a fb account that allows memeber to voice their upcoming choices on books, then people can partner up, find what books they and the other person enjoys and share them. doesnt have to be the same partner everytime but it would be like getting two books for the price of one. i think all books should be shared for free.

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                                  JenScheil

                                                                                                                  I have been a proud Nook owner for geez at least 4 years now...and I have actually never used the "Lend Me" program.  My husband, sister, Mom, friends and I just sideload books. The way I see it my CC can get hacked from anywhere, so if I can't trust those closet to me then what's the point! :-) On a side note, while I do understand and acknowledge that we do not "own" electronic books; I do believe that publishers should NOT be asking consumers to pay close to OR the same amount as a paperback. To me that is just splitting hairs and pissing people off. No you don't own the book, so you cannot do what you want with it, yet we are still charging you the same or maybe a couple bucks less than a hardcopy....But as someone said in an earlier post Money is what drives the world, not good intentions.

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  While I do understand everyones frustrations, bc I have felt some myself. Learn the work-arounds and I promise you will be a happy camper :-)

                                                                                                                  • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                                                    This is very dicouraging to me.  Is this the policy of Ibooks and Kindle books too?  I have many, many Nook books, but if this is the policy of Barnes and Noble I will quit purchasing from them immediately.  I paid for the ebook and if I want to lend it to my spouse or children I should be able to do so.  If this is the policy of publishers I may as well buy the book then and forget about ebooks.  The only reason I buy them is becaue they don't take up as much room on my bookshelves at home.

                                                                                                                      • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                                        patgolfneb
                                                                                                                        Yes, this is publisher controlled. Almost none of the mainline publishers participate in the lend me feature. It still remains a good way to share independent or books from lesser known authors and publishers.
                                                                                                                        • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising
                                                                                                                          kamas716

                                                                                                                          TinaBertucci wrote:

                                                                                                                          This is very dicouraging to me.  Is this the policy of Ibooks and Kindle books too?  I have many, many Nook books, but if this is the policy of Barnes and Noble I will quit purchasing from them immediately.  I paid for the ebook and if I want to lend it to my spouse or children I should be able to do so.  If this is the policy of publishers I may as well buy the book then and forget about ebooks.  The only reason I buy them is becaue they don't take up as much room on my bookshelves at home.


                                                                                                                          LendMe is controlled by the publishers, not the vendors.  If you "purchased" from B&N, then you can legally lend your eBooks to as many people as you are willing to give (or enter yourself) the account name and credit card number to unlock the DRM of the book.  If you are wanting to lend eBooks, B&N is, at least right now, probably your best option.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          • Re: LEND ME on NOOK - False Advertising

                                                                                                                            Just to underline what Kamas said above: of all the major ebook vendors, Barnes & Noble makes it easiest for you to share ebooks with your family. You can copy any Nook book to other Nook devices and unlock the book by entering your credit card number. The card number is not visible to the user.