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      • 30. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !
        LoseTheRadiosMa

        You're right about it being about the convenience & ease of use being a reason for buying any e-Reader. I'm not sure I'd be happy paying full retail for an e-Book, but I can see where the publisher is coming from as well. Whether or not you're buying a book made from trees or bytes, it's still a book. My hope is that if B&N has to follow suit, they allow Reader's Advantage members to use their discounts & at the same rate as the paper equivalent.

        • 31. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

          Fortuantly for me I prefer to read Sci-fi, so I purchase my books, all DRM free at the BAEN website. Which costs $15.00 for 4 ebooks that are to be released that month, same time as the soft cover version. They also sell the books individually at between $4.00 to $6.00 each. Did I mention they were DRM FREE? You can even D/L the book at fraking RTF format. and BAEN has been selling ebooks for about 10 years. They also pay thier authors double royalty so they're more on board with ebooks. And the publisher still makes a profit.

           

          Keep in mind, they don't have to create multiple copys of 1 ebook. They just need to make 1 good ebook copy then (most likely RTF) then use Calibre to convert it to the most commonly used ebook reader formats. Now I think $4 to $5 is fair to pay If i know the author is getting even more royalties. And I'm all for paying the author what he's worth. I vote with my Dollars, and if i don't like what the author writes i won't buy it.  So the publishers really need to get on board and lower the prices of ebooks, they're way outa line on the price.

          • 32. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

            If there are 3 different prices for a book.  The ebook should *not* be the second most expensive !

             

            The fact is publishers see ebooks as losing a sale (of a hardback) instead of gaining a sale (or a dozen).  Until that changes prices will be artificially high.

             

            I've used BAEN in the past myself.  Where they seem to be succeeding is in spuring the sales of an authors back cataloge of works.  Placing an Authors current work out as an e-book often causes sales of the authors previous works (espcially if it is a series).  The end result is more sales for the Author.

             

            P.S.

             

            B&N has George R.R. Martin's  "A Game of Thrones" on sale as an ebook for $1.90

            http://search.barnesandnoble.com/A-Game-of-Thrones/George-R-R-Martin/e/9780553897845

             

            • 33. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

              I read amazon takes 65 percent of ebook revenue for themselves and 35 percent for the publishers/author.  So that's probably another reason publishers want ebook prices higher.  With more competition from B&N and soon apple, hopefully this will force these guys to play a little more nice to the publishers, authors, and to the consumer.

              • 34. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

                 


                ReadingBum wrote:

                I read amazon takes 65 percent of ebook revenue for themselves and 35 percent for the publishers/author.  So that's probably another reason publishers want ebook prices higher.  With more competition from B&N and soon apple, hopefully this will force these guys to play a little more nice to the publishers, authors, and to the consumer.


                 

                 

                This is only the case for "self-published" books on Amazon.

                 

                The way I understand the prior pricing structure vis-a-vis publishers worked was the following.

                 

                At least for new releases (where the dead-tree books were hardcover), Publishers charged Amazon the full hardcover wholesale price for the e-book versions.  This price is typically half of the retail price printed on the inside of the book, so if the retail price was, say, $28, Amazon was paying $14 for each e-book copy.  Amazon would then turn around and sell the e-book at a retail price of $9.99.  This was a "loss-leader" for them, because it got people to buy kindles, which were making a significant profit for amazon.  Older catalog books were also priced differently, so they were likely making some sort of profit on those.  

                 

                Publishers were getting aggravated with the massive discounting (which was Amazon's right under the first sale doctrine), because it set up an expectation for ALL consumers that books be priced no higher than $9.99, so when other e-book retailers started dropping prices as well to compete with amazon, it was putting pressure on the publishers to lower the whole sale book prices because not everyone has as wide a product base as amazon (i.e., what they're losing in e-books, they're making up for in kindle sales, dvd, sales, sales of pots and pans, etc.).

                 

                In connection with the iPad, publishers and Apple have come up with an alternative way of selling books.  Rather than publishers outright selling books at a wholesale price to apple, they've set up an "agency" model - whereby Apple is simply the agent for the publishers selling books directly to the public (this gets around the first sale doctrine, since apple isn't buying books from the publishers, only acting as a sales agent and collecting a 30% commission).  The structure is designed to have flexible pricing (at least for now) so that new releases cost about $12-15, and the price will drop as time goes by (just like a paperback is cheaper than a hardcover book).

                 

                Publishers then went back to Amazon and said, you can keep selling books under the old model, but we will, as is our right as a seller to Amazon, not sell you anything until months after release.  OR, you can adopt this newfangled agency model, and still get books when they're first released.  

                 

                Not saying I agree with either side in this war - just trying to give a fuller explanation of what has happened.

                 

                Quite frankly, I think both sides have valid points.  As a consumer, of course I want to pay the lowest price possible (and I borrow e-books from the library for just this reason), but as a rational person living in a capitalist, market-driven society (for good or for ill), I understand the need for publishers, as corporate entities that employ editors, writers, marketers, typesetters, artists, etc., to both cover their expenses and make a profit.  

                • 35. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !
                  Evrosado

                   


                   

                  Quite frankly, I think both sides have valid points.  As a consumer, of course I want to pay the lowest price possible (and I borrow e-books from the library for just this reason), but as a rational person living in a capitalist, market-driven society (for good or for ill), I understand the need for publishers, as corporate entities that employ editors, writers, marketers, typesetters, artists, etc., to both cover their expenses and make a profit.  


                   

                  I agree, both sides do have very valid points.  As a consumer I want to pay less for an ebook because it, in my opinion, is the cheapest to produce.  When publishers just had to deal with Amazons Kindle, it was ok.  Then came Sony, now B&N and other ereaders. now you have Apple jump in with the iPad and the publishing world goes crazy.  The publishers refuse to believe that people aren't willing to pay $12-$15 for an e-book.  That being said, there are people who don't care and will pay whatever the publisher wants since the publisher will be setting the price points for the ebooks.  I read inthe WSJ that publishers concede that it is cheaper for them to "produce" ebooks than paper. There is no binding or printing to be done. Just conversion to various formats.  The article also stated that the ebook market has grown remarkably in the past year and a good portion of the money publishers made last year came from ebook sales. Someone is making money and to force ereader owners to pay $12 to $15 for ebooks to make up for the loss in hardcover/paperback sales is just not fair.  I'll continue to borrow books from the library and sideload them to my Nook.  The new Amazon pricing goes into effect in March with the release of the iPad.  Will B&N also change their pricing?  In the same WSJ article it stated that B&N already had the agrrements with publishers.

                   

                   

                  Now we just have to wait and see. 

                  • 36. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

                    An ebook lasts (in theory at least) forever. If you read a paperback book one time through you are probably going to have bent pages or a creased binding. With an ebook it is always in new condition. You can pour water on your ebook reader and still read the same quality text on your computer 5 minutes later. Your home could burn down, but you still own your library out in cyberspace. Ebooks offer far more value than paperback. Hence the higher price.

                     

                    The publishers practices seem completely fair to me.

                     

                    Now, if American's didn't buy ebooks at 10.00 a book then I am guessing publishers would lower the price. If you don't like paying 10.00 then don't buy it. As long as people are willing to pay 10.00 what publisher in their right mind would charge less?

                     

                    By the way... this is not greed on their part. It is simple economics.

                    • 37. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

                      The Publishers, some Authors and some eBook retailers are dinosaurs, and the snow and meteorites are falling around them. 

                       

                      The cost to print and distribute paper books is high compared to eBooks, and the higher the volume the higher the total cost to produce.  All three groups need to understand that they can sell 100 ebooks at the same cost as selling 1, so they could potentially multiply revenue and profits many, many times. 

                       

                      The same is not true of the tree-killer version of books, even though high volumes can reduce the average cost to print/distribute.

                       

                      For some reason, the dinosaurs think that there is a fixed number of readers forever, and that if you sell one eBook you lose the money for a paperback or hardcover.  What a silly idea.  eBooks make it possible to significantly expand the number of readers at next to zero cost.  Just sell the eBooks at a low price and watch the money flow in.  My own book purchases have increased 5-fold since eBooks became readily available, even at the inflated prices -- I don't know what my capacity would be if they cost less.

                       

                      If current pricing and revenue sharing models are broken, the suppy chain (Author to Publisher to eBook retailer) must, and absolutely will, go though a significant change, faster than the three groups can imagine.

                       

                      So, Authors, Publishers and Retailers: get with it -- some dinosaurs evolved into birds and are still around.  The others are buried in rock.

                      • 38. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !

                         


                        allan_vancouver wrote:

                        The Publishers, some Authors and some eBook retailers are dinosaurs, and the snow and meteorites are falling around them. 

                         

                        The cost to print and distribute paper books is high compared to eBooks, and the higher the volume the higher the total cost to produce.  All three groups need to understand that they can sell 100 ebooks at the same cost as selling 1, so they could potentially multiply revenue and profits many, many times. 

                         

                        The same is not true of the tree-killer version of books, even though high volumes can reduce the average cost to print/distribute.

                         

                        For some reason, the dinosaurs think that there is a fixed number of readers forever, and that if you sell one eBook you lose the money for a paperback or hardcover.  What a silly idea.  eBooks make it possible to significantly expand the number of readers at next to zero cost.  Just sell the eBooks at a low price and watch the money flow in.  My own book purchases have increased 5-fold since eBooks became readily available, even at the inflated prices -- I don't know what my capacity would be if they cost less.

                         

                        If current pricing and revenue sharing models are broken, the suppy chain (Author to Publisher to eBook retailer) must, and absolutely will, go though a significant change, faster than the three groups can imagine.

                         

                        So, Authors, Publishers and Retailers: get with it -- some dinosaurs evolved into birds and are still around.  The others are buried in rock.


                         

                         

                        What the publishers are stiving to do is make the greatest possible profit.

                         

                        If they can sell 10 books for $10.00/book and make 100.00 in profit they are going to do that rather than sell 99 books for a $1.00/book and make 99.00 in profit. There is a delicate balance.

                         

                        Just because more people will buy the book at a cheaper price does not necessarily mean that there will be more profit. Publishers must consider that some people will never, ever read a sci-fi novel no matter the price. So publishers need to make the most they can with the customer base they have.

                         

                        B&N could sell 75-80% of their books for a penny and I would never purchase those books. I am simply not interested in reading literature I am not interested in!

                         

                        You all do realize that companies are in business to make a profit don't you? You don't earn a paycheck without someone making a profit.

                        • 39. Re: ebook Prices - They Just don't get it !
                          Michael-W

                          I don't know if you guys saw this yet, but it made me laugh out loud. From the front page of the Kindle Store:

                          "New York Times® Best Sellers and New Releases are $9.99, unless marked otherwise"

                           

                          Seriously? Anyway, I really would support a staggered pricing model as stated earlier in the thread. Here's my opinion on what the eBook prices should be:

                          Release (available ONLY in Hardcover and eBook): $14-15 NYT Bestseller/ $10-13 other

                          When paperback comes: $10-12 NYT BS/ $7-9 others

                          When/if mass market paperback comes out: $5 except for NYT Bestsellers, which should be $8-10

                           

                          I understand that publishers/authors need to make money, but for eBooks to be more expensive than the paperbacks (not mass market) is ridiculous. Also, as for the theory that eBooks lowered the value of books, that's bull. I have never payed more than $15 for a book, excluding the Harry Potter Series and some of Dan Brown's books. Most books that I own are mass market paperbacks that cost very little. For my situation, the publishers have it backwards. eBooks raised my view of the value of eBooks due to the fact that I am spending more than I used to in the days of mass market paperbacks. To top it off, I'm doing that without even getting a physical book. Sometimes I'm paying double for just the words without the paper. That's fine, but don't raise the price further than the value of the dead tree book...

                          • 40. Ridiculous Pricing on older ebooks

                            Now, while i have most definitely loved my nook (despite the poor library selection, no Wittgenstein, what?) it is absolutely ridiculous that some of the books available cost over a hundred dollars, sometimes up to around five-hundred.  I can perfectly understand why this is the case, a lot of the books are older, out of print, rarer, etc...  However, a pricing scheme for the those rare books should not apply when the e-version is not rare at ALL and can be delivered to me for a minuscule amount of money.  Is there any reason that the only book on Godel is over a hundred dollars (ignoring that fact that the B&N ebook store hasONE! book about Godel which is a crime in itself).

                             

                            To avoid sounding like just another troll, may I just ask if there are any plans to rework pricing  scheme's on ebooks that cost hundreds of dollars..? Lets face it, not ONE single person would buy them....

                            • 41. Re: Ridiculous Pricing on older ebooks

                              Where have you seen $500 ebooks? I've never seen one that expensive.

                              • 42. Re: Ridiculous Pricing on older ebooks

                                Links to said books, please.

                                • 43. Re: Ridiculous Pricing on older ebooks
                                  icebike

                                   

                                  Complain to the author: Raymond M. Smullyan.  At age 90, he probably could care less about these new-fangled gizmos.  Its his book and he can sell it at any price he wants.  B&N has nothing to do with this.

                                   

                                  There are many paper books about Godel.  But Smullyan is a world class mathematician and has pretty well picked up Godel's theory and made something out of it that Godel was never able to do. 

                                   

                                  Please tell me you didn't just sort all ebooks in Highest to lowest price order and rush to complain...??!!?

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